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#2045577 - 03/09/13 04:56 PM Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today.
36251 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 765
I sat down at NU1 and was immediately impressed. I thought the high end samples were superior to my N2. I did enjoy the action and I did start to think about owning one.

After about ten minutes I noticed a few things that changed my mind about ever owning one in place of N2. First I noticed that there were some imperfections with the samples. Ab5 and Eb6 among some others using Piano 1 were noticeably sounded different and stood out when playing a chromatic line through those notes. The other thing was the action was definitely upright and had trouble playing a fast melody like Donna Lee.

The sound was nice but it didn't seem as deep and full as N2. Overall though, a very nice instrument and a much better buy. The place in NH was still selling N2 for $9995.00. I didn't see price on NU1 and it had the plexiglass like some of the early videos had; obviously a demo model.
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AG N2, CP4, GK MK & MP

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#2045608 - 03/09/13 05:58 PM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5282
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
The other thing was the action was definitely upright and had trouble playing a fast melody like Donna Lee.

That's what I like about it. smile
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#2045630 - 03/09/13 06:43 PM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]
titowsky Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 54
I had the same problems with 2 NU1 models: some keys sounded really different.
But at least the new one the shop ordered for me, after trying many many chromatic scales at different intensity, has not shown this issue... otherwise for sure I would not have bought it.

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#2045632 - 03/09/13 06:50 PM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]
CyberGene Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 723
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
It was my first time today playing the NU1 as well. I tested it side by side with an AG (not sure about the model, I guess the N1) and a real Yamaha baby grand. This was in the Centre Chopin in Paris.

I played the 25-1 Etude and Em Prelude of Chopin. NU1 failed miserably on both! It's just not good for the fast arpeggios of the etude, furthermore I failed to make it sing for the prelude, the dynamics was not precise. Yeah, it could be me or the upright action but I didn't had this difficulty with AG or the real grand. To be honest I didn't like the AG either, there was some hardness in the keys, it's not exactly stiffness, it's more of a hardness, or hard bottoming. And the keys were a little bit heavier than the baby grand. All in all even the entry level baby grand beats them. However I was too picky about the AG and I can positively say it is the best feeling non-digital piano I have ever played and I would buy without a doubt if I had the space and the money.
_________________________
http://www.myspace.com/evgenykumanov
Current DP: Kawai ES7
Previous DP-s: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100

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#2045803 - 03/10/13 05:44 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]
Qbert Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 328
Loc: Italy
So, what is the best action for classical, in your opinion?
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GEM Promega 3 (sold) - Yamaha CLP 170 (sold) - Acuna88 (sold) - Kawai VPC1 + BK7m

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#2045809 - 03/10/13 06:11 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]
CyberGene Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 723
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
I would get the AG N1 for classical music. And regarding the perceived hardness of the keys, I've been told by piano technicians that most brand new acoustic pianos need some period of break-in, so supposedly N1 will feel even smoother with the time.
_________________________
http://www.myspace.com/evgenykumanov
Current DP: Kawai ES7
Previous DP-s: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100

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#2045811 - 03/10/13 06:15 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: Qbert]
titowsky Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 54
In my humble opinion NU1 is not bad. I tried both the N3 and Kawai CA95: N3 has better action of course but price and size for me make no sense... I would go for an acoustic grand. CA95 has very good sound and nice size but the action seemed artificial to me.

I found NU1 a good compromise of almost all: realistic action, acceptable sound and price... at more than 5k€ I would go for a Silent upright.
But I still have to receive it at home and make extensive use, then I will be more detailed...

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#2045812 - 03/10/13 06:38 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: Qbert]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5282
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Qbert
So, what is the best action for classical, in your opinion?


For practicing or performance?

I played a €100,000 nine foot Steinway at a local theater which was a pleasure to perform on since it was so easy to play - it responded extremely well. It was like driving a sports car that responded effortlessly to whatever I wanted it to do.

I just wouldn't want that piano to practice on however since it was so easy to play. Why? When I go to play pianos that are less friendly, so to speak, the piano will have the upper hand and not me.

I played jobs on upright pianos that were an absolute bear to play ... and I would have wanted those pianos at home for practice purposes.

I liked the NU1 since for me I found it more difficult to play than my N3. If I could nail a run on the NU1 I could nail it with less effort on my N3.

Just a thought.
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#2045814 - 03/10/13 07:04 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2606
Loc: Manchester, UK
That's a very good point. There are some pieces however where I do think you'd be at a disadvantage if you didn't have a grand action to practice on.

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#2046077 - 03/10/13 05:31 PM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: debrucey]
36251 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 765
For me it's all about good grand action. I suffered with too many uprights in my life. I don't see any advantage practicing on an upright if you own a grand. If I was practicing for the tour de France, I wouldn't ride a bike cruiser, hoping it will make my skills better and a stronger rider. It might just frustrate me enough to throwing my horn off a bridge smile
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#2046350 - 03/11/13 05:02 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: titowsky]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: titowsky
In my humble opinion NU1 is not bad. I tried both the N3 and Kawai CA95: N3 has better action of course but price and size for me make no sense... I would go for an acoustic grand. CA95 has very good sound and nice size but the action seemed artificial to me.

I found NU1 a good compromise of almost all: realistic action, acceptable sound and price... at more than 5k€ I would go for a Silent upright.
But I still have to receive it at home and make extensive use, then I will be more detailed...


I believe that there are a lot of us who will be very interested in keeping tabs on your longer term experience with the NU1 given that you are already an experienced Yamaha Silent Piano owner and player.

Looking forward to hearing your future reports!

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#2046507 - 03/11/13 02:50 PM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: theJourney]
titowsky Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 54
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Originally Posted By: titowsky
In my humble opinion NU1 is not bad. I tried both the N3 and Kawai CA95: N3 has better action of course but price and size for me make no sense... I would go for an acoustic grand. CA95 has very good sound and nice size but the action seemed artificial to me.

I found NU1 a good compromise of almost all: realistic action, acceptable sound and price... at more than 5k€ I would go for a Silent upright.
But I still have to receive it at home and make extensive use, then I will be more detailed...


I believe that there are a lot of us who will be very interested in keeping tabs on your longer term experience with the NU1 given that you are already an experienced Yamaha Silent Piano owner and player.

Looking forward to hearing your future reports!


Ok, tomorrow morning my new NU1 will be delivered at home in substitution to my CA95 (anyway a wonderful instrument from all the points of view, maybe the best DP... but still a DP, and the very very good and sensible action was not enough for me).

I am still concerned, I still do not know it I will ever get used to (or completely satisfied by) a hybrid. I can say that even possessing a Yamaha C6, for many years I prepared recitals/small competitions mainly on the Silent (just playing in the night, I work as engineer)... and I never had problems then playing on grands. I modified my Silent with some weights in the mechanics (done by a professional tuner) in order to increase the fingers strenght while playing just a couple of hours a day.
I am a strange pianist: I am used to slowly repeat all Chopin's etudes watching a small TV in front of me and without listening what I am doing (I concentrate just on the feeling of my mucles), then using headphones or acoustic for just half an hour... so for me the sound is not the most important thing, but feeling that my fingers are doing their daily work smile

Let's see with the NU1...

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#2046633 - 03/11/13 07:01 PM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]
EJT Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/30/13
Posts: 28
Loc: South Bend, Indiana
Titowsky:
I love my NU1. I like the sounds but mostly love the touch and feel of the keyboard. I was most concerned about the touch of my new DP and originally was looking at kawai ca65. Then the store had this and my wife gave me the green light to get the NU1.

A request: would you please describe the bench that comes with it (if you're in the US). My first bench was generic; I spoke to store owner who sold my piano and asked why the pictures of it have "yamaha" on the bench and it appears adjustable. Today, he sent me a new bench with yamaha but not adjustable (though the manual claims the bench is adjustable). I don't want to be pushy with him if I'm mistaken; he's been awesome through the purchase. But I don't want to get less than what I paid for, either.



Edited by EJT (03/11/13 07:02 PM)

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#2046692 - 03/11/13 09:49 PM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]
ahhsmurf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/07/13
Posts: 48
Loc: Banned
It was like driving a sports car that responded effortlessly to whatever I wanted it to do.

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#2046696 - 03/11/13 09:54 PM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: titowsky]
dmd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1955
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: titowsky
I am a strange pianist



Yes, I would have to agree with you there ... smile

But ... Hey !!! Whatever floats your boat !
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2046809 - 03/12/13 03:43 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]
titowsky Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 54
So... I just received it and it looks wonderful smile
Tried also Chopin 25-1 etude and does not seem too bad (I am not pretending to get a "magic sound" out of that), but this evening I will play seriously.

Regarding the chair: it is a generic one (no Yamaha brand). Adjustable but generic as it was the previous one they provided with my ex-CA95. I am in Germany.
I explicitely asked for the "included chair" but... ok, I do not want to complain for that now.

I cannot wait for this evening to play it smile

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#2047325 - 03/12/13 10:42 PM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]
ahhsmurf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/07/13
Posts: 48
Loc: Banned
I was most concerned about the touch of my new DP and originally was looking at kawai ca65.

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#2047416 - 03/13/13 01:53 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
bump. titowsky, did you get any sleep ? ha ha

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#2047450 - 03/13/13 03:32 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]
titowsky Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 54
smile smile smile unfortunately I had not much time yesterday evening, and I prefer to carefully read the manual "prepare the environment" before launching myself on the new toy!

Just two very first impressions after half an hour playing:
- the piano makes a loud noise when played silent... a bit too much (and even more than my Silent at home). I was concerned to play it at midnight even without having any neighbor at the floor below. This is definately an advantage of CA95 I have not considered.
- The keys really seem much heavier than they are just because you cannot get the range of volume you would expect (fff are nearly impossible)... so you are always tempted to push and "force the sound"
- I find also the trip of the keys slightly shorter than the pianos I am used; perhaps this is the reason that makes very fast repetitions not so accurate, I would say worse than CA95.

So I would say, CA95 more enjoyable, practical and even "more responsive" from electronics point of view, but my target was to get a better action, so... let's see in next hours...

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#2047469 - 03/13/13 05:19 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: titowsky]
spanishbuddha Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2473
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: titowsky

- the piano makes a loud noise when played silent... a bit too much (and even more than my Silent at home). I was concerned to play it at midnight even without having any neighbor at the floor below. This is definately an advantage of CA95 I have not considered.
- The keys really seem much heavier than they are just because you cannot get the range of volume you would expect (fff are nearly impossible)... so you are always tempted to push and "force the sound"

You CAN play softly on the NU1 and also loudly too. It takes time to adjust to the action. So I will say the piano does not make a loud noise when played silent - that's you! This was one of the reasons I got he NU1, it responds just like my teachers piano, you have to learn to tame the beast. Just like most uprights at least. This may be different from a quality grand, I wouldn't know. I do agree it is not possible to get a thundering fff.

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#2047478 - 03/13/13 06:07 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
I believe there are very real differences in the mechanical sound of the various actions. In general the Kawai actions seem to be the quietest while the Rolands tend to have a very resonant thomp-thomp sound. In general, I would expect a real piano action to be the noisiest of all when operated in silent mode. After all, there is the most going on. If acoustic pianos weren't so darn loud we would all probably be very irritated by how loud the real, genuine, authentic piano action is.

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#2047480 - 03/13/13 06:19 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: titowsky]
Belger1900 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/30/10
Posts: 60
Key travel is smaller compared to the N1. In my test (different thread) quick repitition of the notes is not very easy. I was not sure if this was because of the sensor system on the Yamaha or even due to the small key travel. And i´m still not sure if a simple 3-sensor-system on the DP´s (either Kawai or Yamaha) is comparable to the Avantgrand models.
Im still waiting for another chance to play both instruments side by side.

Concerning the noise: Of course the mechanics of the piano action are louder than the typical digital piano. I had the same issues on my Yamaha silent and I did have one neighbour below my apertment who heard the "thump" everytime when hitting the note. This does not get better if you want to play fast pieces with a lot of fortissimo grin.

I´m really curious on your verdict for the NU1 since I am thinking about buying either the NU1 or the N1 in future.
The more you think about which instrument to buy, the worst it gets....This is even more difficult than buying a car grin


Edited by Belger1900 (03/13/13 06:22 AM)

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#2047720 - 03/13/13 03:23 PM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]
titowsky Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 54
Uhm... played a couple of hours and I have to say that... I hope I will get used to it: it is definitely less enjoyable and pleasant to play than the CA95.

The sound seems like "in a box", not so bright and crystalline (maybe I have to move it more distant from the wall)... still sometime, in very fast passage, I get volume spykes which do not match my performance: it never happened with the Kawai.
And I am still a bit concerned with the smaller key travel, I am always tempted to press more in order to reach the bottom of the keys.

Sorry, I do not know... it is so different from the previous one. I have to play more and understand...

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#2047739 - 03/13/13 03:54 PM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: titowsky]
kapelli Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 407
Loc: Poland
titowsky,
did you found now the NU1 MUCH BETTER than CA95?
I mean, is it worth 50% more money?

Because at first you were excited about NU1 and now you are like this icon -> crazy

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#2047746 - 03/13/13 04:08 PM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: kapelli]
titowsky Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 54
I said what I did not like in CA95, I tried the NU1 in the shop and it seemed to me better for my purpose: a more realistic/true piano action.

Now I want to be as honest as possible reporting my feelings, not saying "it is wonderful" just because it is here at home. In case I am ready also to admit that only a good acoustic may satisfy me.

So... please sorry if I confused someone with my opinions...
I will write again just after my subjective impressions have become more precise and stable.


Edited by titowsky (03/13/13 04:09 PM)

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#2047748 - 03/13/13 04:11 PM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]
kapelli Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 407
Loc: Poland
OK, just asking, and yes, I am little confused now, maybe you need few days more with Yamaha smile

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#2048025 - 03/14/13 03:24 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: titowsky]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: titowsky
Uhm... played a couple of hours and I have to say that... I hope I will get used to it: it is definitely less enjoyable and pleasant to play than the CA95.


As a practice instrument it would seem to be better to have an instrument that prepares you for acoustic playing rather than one which is easy to play or that makes one sound better than one really is and does on an acoustic. The NU1 would at least seem to have an authentic enough action that qualifies, especially for acting like a real upright piano.

But any good and responsive action that has a realistic link to a sound engine should of course also be enjoyable and pleasant to play....hmmm

Originally Posted By: titowsky

The sound seems like "in a box", not so bright and crystalline (maybe I have to move it more distant from the wall)... still sometime, in very fast passage, I get volume spykes which do not match my performance: it never happened with the Kawai.
And I am still a bit concerned with the smaller key travel, I am always tempted to press more in order to reach the bottom of the keys.

Sorry, I do not know... it is so different from the previous one. I have to play more and understand...


Can you say more about the key travel differences and the perceived volume spike behavior? I have played on some Yamaha Bx pianos that were very stiff, irregular (and also incredibly out of tune/seemingly untunable) during their first year of service. I wonder if the NU1 also needs to be broken in before it starts to become more even and pleasurable?

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#2048295 - 03/14/13 04:11 PM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: theJourney]
titowsky Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 54
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Originally Posted By: titowsky
Uhm... played a couple of hours and I have to say that... I hope I will get used to it: it is definitely less enjoyable and pleasant to play than the CA95.


As a practice instrument it would seem to be better to have an instrument that prepares you for acoustic playing rather than one which is easy to play or that makes one sound better than one really is and does on an acoustic. The NU1 would at least seem to have an authentic enough action that qualifies, especially for acting like a real upright piano.

But any good and responsive action that has a realistic link to a sound engine should of course also be enjoyable and pleasant to play....hmmm

Originally Posted By: titowsky

The sound seems like "in a box", not so bright and crystalline (maybe I have to move it more distant from the wall)... still sometime, in very fast passage, I get volume spykes which do not match my performance: it never happened with the Kawai.
And I am still a bit concerned with the smaller key travel, I am always tempted to press more in order to reach the bottom of the keys.

Sorry, I do not know... it is so different from the previous one. I have to play more and understand...


Can you say more about the key travel differences and the perceived volume spike behavior? I have played on some Yamaha Bx pianos that were very stiff, irregular (and also incredibly out of tune/seemingly untunable) during their first year of service. I wonder if the NU1 also needs to be broken in before it starts to become more even and pleasurable?



Regarding the practise topic I agree, NU1 seems really similar to an upright... at least from the action point of view... despite the noise it produces (more than I expected) I like to make exercises silently and I receive a good feedback.

I am also wondering if a burn-out period is actually needed in order to really appreciate the overall quality of the sound.
Now I am focusing on spikes and strange electronics behaviours: I understood that they are not so much caused by speed of repetitions, but more by some specific hand-gestures that for some reasons the electronics is not able "to read" in the proper way.
For example: soft chordal repetitions like at the beginning of Beethoven op.53 are nearly impossible to sound perfectly (they are absolutely not "fast")... it is not possible to get an equal soft sound without a missing chord or one resulting stronger than expected (I play this Sonata for years without problems on any acceptable piano). I often get spikes when the repetition is realized by a soft and fast alternance of the two hands on the same key.

Key travel is ablsolutely shorter than usual, but I have the impression you can get used to it, and not so bothered anymore.

I am also trying to change the setting:
- touch sensitivity to hard (I like it... and it is incredible how the NU1 can seem "heavy" even with its soft keyboard!)
- IA Control switched off, but I still have to clearly understand the function, no difference noticed... so I prefer to switch off anything that may appear "artificial" smile


Edited by titowsky (03/14/13 05:41 PM)

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#2048530 - 03/15/13 03:24 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
So, in comparison to your Yamaha Silent Piano, you would say that the Silent Piano is much better, no?

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#2048532 - 03/15/13 03:32 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: theJourney]
titowsky Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 54
Originally Posted By: theJourney
So, in comparison to your Yamaha Silent Piano, you would say that the Silent Piano is much better, no?


Yes, this can be definitely said, no doubts... I never had concerns on the acoustic sound of my Silent, this is not comparable to the NU1. And the action of the Silent does not have the short key travel, that I would not consider "an advantage".

I want to test the NU1, then when I come back to Italy in a couple o weeks I will compare its eletronics to the Silent one (it is much time I do not play the last with headphones): this is interesting...

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#2048533 - 03/15/13 03:35 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
What is the model number of your Silent?

This weekend/next week I am going to try to play a NU1, a B1 SG2 Silent and a U1 SH Silent for comparison purposes...

Perhaps you need to turn up the sound on your television while practicing on your NU1? laugh

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#2048541 - 03/15/13 04:17 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5282
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
theJourney, are you going to Clavis?
_________________________
website

mp3\wav files

AvantGrand N3, CP5

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#2048560 - 03/15/13 05:20 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
I have to be in Dusseldorf and so was going to try there. Do you think clavis would have all the models side by side?

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#2048650 - 03/15/13 09:42 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5282
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
I was in Clavis in Amsterdam last year and they had all three N models next to each other but I don't remember seeing the NU1. They might have it now.

It's worth mentioning that 'regular' music stores now carry the Yamaha hybrids, not just the stores that sell the acoustic grands.
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#2048738 - 03/15/13 02:55 PM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: theJourney]
titowsky Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 54
Originally Posted By: theJourney
What is the model number of your Silent?

This weekend/next week I am going to try to play a NU1, a B1 SG2 Silent and a U1 SH Silent for comparison purposes...

Perhaps you need to turn up the sound on your television while practicing on your NU1? laugh


Please believe me... I do not know (it was a very nice gift when I did not care so much about that, it was anyway one of the first Silent pianos, about 15 years ago) and I will be able to check the model when I will come back home.

smile Now I will switch on the TV and start playing the NU1 smile

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#2056767 - 03/30/13 10:09 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]
titowsky Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 54
OK, my Silent is an old MP100 (1995), I played it now at home for some hours and I have to say that... it is incredible but it does not seem that electronics has improved so much in all these years!
Repeated chords are easier on my Silent (they sound without peaks or strange behaviours), I am able to play Beethoven op.53 without annoying issues I experienced on 3 different NU1 models.
Some strange responses are still there, so I would just say that I do not have a clear preference in the sound through headphones between MP100 and NU1: I do not care of the quality of the samples (coming from CFX or other) if I cannot get the sound my fingers want to produce.

So, at the end, I am pleased with my NU1 for the action, the quality of the cabinet... and looking at it as an instrument for pure practise maybe it is good enough. BUT I expected much more from the sound and sensitivity (I regard Kawai CA95 superior and much enjoyable from this point of view); definatly I did not want to play anything for anybody on this instrument: it does not reflet my musical intentions and does not allow me to deeply involve myself in my performance.

So I will save money for a Bechstein upright and hopefully find my way with that (as it is also possible to male it silent adding dedicated system).

My advice and my experience is really... try NU1, but also CA95... for me the latter represents the best quality/price choice, otherwise you probably need just an acoustic smile

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#2057076 - 03/30/13 08:31 PM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: titowsky]
HwyStar Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 323
Thanks for the final review Titowsky. I have wanted to try both DPs and your vote for the Kawai helps me in my decision making process. The only way to truly know if you like a DP is to play it, play it some more, then start the loop over again.

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#2057174 - 03/31/13 02:32 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Thanks for the update.

If I am not mistaken, the MP100 is a tried and true Yamaha U1 with the 1995-era state-of-the-art Yamaha Silent System factory installed. These U1 Silent Pianos are apparently still one of the best sellers from our large, local Yamaha dealer.

It sounds like a Yamaha Silent Piano -- especially with the latest SH sound generator -- is still probably the best bet for serious pianists offering a true hybrid (or split personality) situation of acoustic + digital capabilities (and one that keeps on going for 15, 20, etc. years).

Of course, it doesn't come cheap to buy an acoustic piano with a digital piano built in. The price for the lastest reincarnation with the CFX sampled SH sound generator is around euro 10.000,--, about three times the price of the CA95. But then you really have something: a solid acoustic piano with Yamaha action and a very well integrated optical sensor system-driven digital piano off of the same action using Yamaha's latest sampling technology with a 10 year guarantee on the piano and, at least in Europe, a very healthy re-sale market.

It sounds like, despite the name, that the NU1 might probably be a digital only version of the B1 (or something even more inferior) rather than the U1?

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#2057314 - 03/31/13 11:21 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: theJourney]
titowsky Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 54
Yesterday I tried the NU1 just beside the smallest Yamaha Silent in a Shop in Padua; unfortunately even the actions were not comparable, too light and short the trip in the NU1. Tried also to play the same note on NU1 with different weights of finger and shoulder, and various approaches to the key... too reduced differences (or no at all) in the response from the instrument: I do not think this the best that nowadays electronics can offer.

It is really a pity: I am noticing a huge effort from Yamaha in advertisement and support of NU1 distribution quite everywhere, like a revolutionary instrument for serious players... but at least for me it is not like that: the simplest Yamaha Silent wins without any doubt, including a very competitive price (considering the value of a true piano against a hybrid).

Last advice: do not make my own mistake, the instrument must be played for a while at full volume (high volume), testing different repertoires and all your own expectations, without trusting just in the superior action which results evident from the first notes everyone can play.

The only thing I am still interested in, regarding DP world, is eventually the VPC1... in order to use it as transportable keyboard for practicing in emergency situations, even without sound. Don't know if it can fit the purpose...

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#2057392 - 03/31/13 02:32 PM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]
CyberGene Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 723
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
Is it possible for you to return it or at least exchange it for something else? If I was unsatisfied with such an expensive piano the way you are, I would not keep it even for a day.


Edited by CyberGene (03/31/13 05:10 PM)
_________________________
http://www.myspace.com/evgenykumanov
Current DP: Kawai ES7
Previous DP-s: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100

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#2057433 - 03/31/13 03:49 PM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: titowsky]
Wess. Chr. K. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/12/13
Posts: 37
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
Originally Posted By: titowsky

The only thing I am still interested in, regarding DP world, is eventually the VPC1... in order to use it as transportable keyboard for practicing in emergency situations, even without sound. Don't know if it can fit the purpose...


It is very smart solution.
I was thinking, just as an idea, to connect Kawai VPC1 to a laptop or mac mini with Ivory II + stand+3 pedals+set of non expensive pretty small active loudspeakers (Genelec/Yamaha/Fame/Adam/Mackie etc.)
The price would be still less than 2.100 Euro (without PC or MAC).

http://www.musicstore.de:80/de_DE/EUR/Kawai-VPC1-Masterkeyboard/art-SYN0004258-000
(€1329)
http://www.musicstore.de:80/de_DE/EUR/Synthogy-Ivory-II-American-Concert-D-/art-PCM0011826-000
(€155)

http://www.musicstore.de:80/de_DE/EUR/Pro-Audio/Monitore-/-Verst-rker/Mackie-MR-5-mk2-Studiomonitor-aktiv-5-25-Woofer/1-HT-55/30w/art-REC0008495-000
(€162 * 2)
or Studio headphones:
http://www.musicstore.de:80/de_DE/EUR/AKG-K-240-MKII-Studio-Kopfh-rer-halboffen/art-REC0005852-000
(€139)

http://www.musicstore.de:80/de_DE/EUR/K-nig-Meyer-18953-Digitalpiano-Klapptisch-schwarz/art-KEY0002459-000
(€115)
http://www.musicstore.de:80/de_DE/EUR/Kawai-F-20-Doppelpedal-mit-Half-Damper-Funktion/art-KEY0002112-000
(€89)

________
€2151 (with Speakers and Headphones together)
+
http://www.mactrade.de/macs-1/macbook-pr...al-core-i5.html
(€1369 with discount)
Personally, I think it is a good portable laptop one for such needs and even more.

Total:
€3520

(+some €60-80 for delivery if you order form both stores)

instead:
http://www.musicstore.de/is-bin/INTERSHO...mpleOfferSearch
(€4560)
(~ €140-€200 delivery inside Europe)
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Best regards,
Wess

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#2057442 - 03/31/13 04:11 PM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: Wess. Chr. K.]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU
With this MacBook is there no need for an external audio interface?
Is the internal sound card itself of that high quality indeed (not the weaker chain link than the Mackies or the AKG240 You recommended)?

I think no extra pedal unit is necessary, the VPC1 has a 3 pedal unit in the package (with HalfPedal).

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#2057472 - 03/31/13 05:16 PM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]
Wess. Chr. K. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/12/13
Posts: 37
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
Hi Temperament,

the sound card in this Macbook pro is really very good one to build system "Computer+Soft Piano+VPC1 (as a portable MIDI device).
However, if you expand the budget you might take some external sound card/system, but this is not the idea, talking about "portable set".
IMPO, master keyboard is definitely a kind of studio staff. I have had other brand 88 key controller for 8 years and replaced it with the AG.
It is on doubt which one is better – the Master keyboard or Workstation/DP with sounds on it. When I was making my research buying DP I passed true these long hesitations.

But talking about MBP13" - with simple splitter (L/R) from audio out of MBP you can send signal either to cheep Mackie or directly to plug the headphones (AKG 240 in this sample).
Honestly, I would prefer to work with headphones. AKG Studio series are my favorite, but it is a matter of test. There are many other great headphones on the market.
My 13 years experience gives me the right to mention that in my everyday activities they (Studio 240) are good and extremely robust headphones.
In all 3 different audio/video studios I work with as a composer, the colleagues trust AKG. Please, do not understand me wrong, Beyerdynamic and Senheiser are also one of top level.
It is not so important. You have to test them and if you like it... you could "merry them".

I only spotted 'headphones' as a virtual set with VPC1. Recently some of the colleagues form the forum mentioned that Kawai has not developed an editor for MAC. Well, then connect it to PC.
Frankly, I am mac user for many ears, but not the one form the "cult" society. The reason I mentioned 13"Macbook pro Retina was because it is slim/powerful (as a design and options), has the best display in its 13" class. As musicians, surely we (might) use notation software for many proposes. Talking form my experience, It works fantastically. And not at least, the model I mentioned has flash drive, though а small one – 128 GB, runs very fast to maintain flawlessly Ivory II (American D).
As for as Mackie, well, they seemed to be a low price solution for active monitors.
When I purchased "American D", I tested its sound on Studio high-end monitors Genelec, Yamaha and Adamsm but also on Desktop Genelec (8020A).

The build in speakers of most DP are not from top level, but I guess Mackie, Fame, Yamaha or Adams will fit well.
As I mentioned, I would prefer headphones semi opened.

Ones more I will answer on you question "Is the internal sound card itself of that high quality indeed" – yes, it is.
Compared it to my RME it does not "harms" the sound as many others build in sound cards (Dell, HP, Acer or others that I had compared in last 5-6 years).
Of course, if you have USB or Firewire device (and it is not called "M-audio") is more convent (volume control, MIDI, input, output, SPDIF, monitor, AUX etc.)


Edited by Wess. Chr. K. (03/31/13 05:17 PM)
_________________________
Best regards,
Wess

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#2057608 - 04/01/13 12:54 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: titowsky]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: titowsky

The only thing I am still interested in, regarding DP world, is eventually the VPC1... in order to use it as transportable keyboard for practicing in emergency situations, even without sound. Don't know if it can fit the purpose...


It would depend on how you plan to transport it -- and how tolerant you are of keys that are out of regulation.

We know from other threads that the RM/GF keyboards do not travel well and often arrive damaged in the factory-sealed, original transportatation cartons. If you will be driving it under your own careful control you might be ok. I wouldn't consider paying extra and checking it as oversized luggage on an airplane. Too risky.


Edited by theJourney (04/01/13 12:55 AM)

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#2057755 - 04/01/13 11:49 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]
titowsky Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 54
I already agreed with the seller of my NU1 for a change with a good up right in the near future, without economic disadvantages... So ok, the mistake is not so heavy.

Regarding VPC1...I am not tolerant with Keys out of regulation, so I will see... First I want to seriously test the Keyboard, then if it is comparable to CA63-CA93 it could be an useful purchase. For sure it would be under my control in my car during the trips :-)

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#2058141 - 04/02/13 03:14 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: titowsky]
Dragon777 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 27
Originally Posted By: titowsky
do not make my own mistake, the instrument must be played for a while at full volume (high volume),


I´m a bit puzzled here. My NU1 is way too loud at full volume. I have measured sound levels of different uprights vs. my NU1 and the most realistic setting of the volume knob is about 2 o´clock. Everything above 3 o´clock is way off, imho. I am not able to get good dynamics fromt the instrument at maximum volume, either. And my ears are ringing from the lould piercing sound the speaekers produce. But at lower setting, everyhing is absolutely fine with the NU1. Have you tried it at lower volume settings?


Edited by Dragon777 (04/02/13 03:15 AM)

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#2058151 - 04/02/13 04:58 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]
titowsky Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 54
Hi Dragon, I agree: NU1 sound is "tolerable" at low, max medium volume... Over 2 or 3 o'clock becomes annoying and peaks or disegualities are too evident. This was another issue I discovered during quick performance simulation for a small group of people, better to keep it for intimate playing...

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#2058156 - 04/02/13 05:25 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: titowsky]
Dragon777 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 27
Hi Titowsky,
did turning down the volume to a realistic level of a comparable upright not improve the dynamic response of the NU1 for you, which you were missing in your tests above?

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#2058350 - 04/02/13 02:53 PM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: Dragon777]
titowsky Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 54
No no... turning it down to half or less simply makes the sound (to my hears) more acceptable... in the sense that peaks are less evident, some very very small volume differences among keys becomes not perceptible and... with my limited English I do not know how to describe, but it sounds more enjoyable... I do not suffer too much its rather poor sensitivity to my touch.
I am used to play it just at low volume (no more than 2 o'clock).
With headphones the overall quality seemed worse, but I will spend some more hours with that.

On Saturday I will go to Tūbingen to try the Silent - Vario system in the local huge Bechstein shop: I think now I am pretty prepared for a comparison smile


Edited by titowsky (04/02/13 03:38 PM)

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