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#2046448 - 03/11/13 11:38 AM Concerto Analysis
Polyphonist Online   content
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Registered: 03/03/13
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Hello everyone,

This is going to be similar to the "Sonata Analysis" thread that has been going on in the Adult Beginners forum, except we will be looking at piano concertos instead of solo repertoire, and we are hoping to get into more advanced, in-depth analysis of the pieces we examine. And hopefully we can stay on topic a little bit more than in the other thread. wink
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Polyphonist

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#2046449 - 03/11/13 11:40 AM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
PianoStudent88 Offline
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Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3153
Loc: Maine
Wonderful! I'm in. Any particular concerto(s) you have in mind?
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#2046450 - 03/11/13 11:43 AM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
Polyphonist Online   content
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I'm opening it up for suggestions. Let's just not try to start on a colossal work like the Busoni concerto for the first one we analyze. wink
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Polyphonist

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#2046451 - 03/11/13 11:49 AM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
PianoStudent88 Offline
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I heard Daniil Trifonov play the Tschaikovsky First Piano Concerto last fall, so that's my current concerto love at the moment. But I'm up for anything.
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#2046455 - 03/11/13 12:06 PM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
Mark_C Offline
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What do you mean by analysis? What are you looking for?

BTW seems like you want to sort of run a course, but you're not saying what it is! grin

(Many of us don't much see that other section and so we don't know what you're referring to over there.)

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#2046459 - 03/11/13 12:28 PM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13759
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Here's an idea - let's do two concerti: Beethoven 3 and Rachmaninoff 2.

They're both popular, very different in style, but there are a great deal of similarities between the two that I think would be very interesting to explore in detail. Scores are available on IMSLP (we'd have to agree on which ones to use exactly so we can reference page and rehearsal numbers.)
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#2046490 - 03/11/13 02:14 PM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
im@me Offline
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Registered: 09/21/12
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I don't particularly understand this thing that you are doing, but it sounds interesting, a suggestion is/are the Liszt piano concertos, or a Mozart concerto?

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#2046500 - 03/11/13 02:38 PM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Kreisler]
AldenH Offline
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Registered: 03/22/11
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Originally Posted By: Kreisler
Here's an idea - let's do two concerti: Beethoven 3 and Rachmaninoff 2.

They're both popular, very different in style, but there are a great deal of similarities between the two that I think would be very interesting to explore in detail. Scores are available on IMSLP (we'd have to agree on which ones to use exactly so we can reference page and rehearsal numbers.)



Wonderful suggestions. In the Beethoven, I am particularly a fan of the transition back into C minor after the end of the cadenza in the first movement. Sheer magic with simple means.

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#2046511 - 03/11/13 02:58 PM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Mark_C]
PianoStudent88 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark_C
(Many of us don't much see that other section and so we don't know what you're referring to over there.)

We've been looking at various pieces over in the ABF. The current thread, Classical Sonata Analysis, was started out to look at sonatas and sonata form, but we have looked at non-sonatas there too.

We use various tools to understand how the music is put together and how it achieves its effects. We look at a variety of features of the work including (but not limited to) harmony, melody, themes and their transformations, and form. Without fully knowing what polyphonist would like to do here, I imagine this thread would be similar.
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#2046545 - 03/11/13 03:54 PM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
Polyphonist Online   content
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Similar, but more advanced. Richard had a little too much going on in the other one, and overloaded his "students" with information, which may have been right or wrong. wink
So, if you are not a fairly good pianist with a strong understanding of theory and harmony, this thread is not for you most likely.

I'd like to combine some suggestions that have been put in here and the two concertos we start with will be

Chopin 2 (F minor) and Rachmaninoff 2 (C minor).

Please stay on the topic of these two concerti. Preferably, in any one post, begin with the first movement and work through however much of the concerto you would like to, responding to previous questions/comments or presenting new information.
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Polyphonist

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#2046622 - 03/11/13 06:33 PM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
PianoStudent88 Offline
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We have found it helpful in the other thread to put the work and movement number at the start of each post, in bold.

"Fairly good pianist with a strong understanding of theory and harmony"... I guess I'm going to find out if I measure up!

Polyphonist, are we going to work through both concerti at the same time? Do you have a preferred score from imslp for us to work from, or use any score?
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#2046628 - 03/11/13 06:51 PM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
Polyphonist Online   content
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Registered: 03/03/13
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Loc: New York City
In reply to PianoStudent88: Very good questions. Everyone participating should read this, as it will contain important information.

Yes, we will do 2 at once. More than that would be too confusing, while only having 1 might exclude someone who really didn't like one of the concertos for whatever reason, but with 2 there is another one for them to participate in.

About scores: I'm going to be using my Henle Urtext 2 piano reduction edition for the Chopin, and Boosey & Hawkes for the Rachmaninov. But any score should be fine.

For the Rachmaninov, your score should have rehearsal marks. Bar numbers for that concerto will be referred to according the rehearsal marks: for example, R11+6 means six bars after rehearsal mark 11.

For the Chopin, we're going to use absolute bar numbers, counting from the beginning of the movement being referred to, as is normal. If your score or the one you print off the Internet doesn't have them, I'd recommend writing them in, and then checking to make sure your totals for each movement match the ones I have here:

1st movement: 348 bars
2nd movement: 97 bars
3rd movement: 514 bars

If you recheck it and still get a different number, contact me via personal message and we can discuss the issue. smile

Anyway, sorry if I sounded like a control freak in that post. ha
Have fun! smile
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Polyphonist

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#2046640 - 03/11/13 07:17 PM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
keystring Offline
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Originally Posted By: Polyphonist

Yes, we will do 2 at once.

An ambitious undertaking! smile

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#2046661 - 03/11/13 08:10 PM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
Polyphonist Online   content
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Registered: 03/03/13
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Hopefully the generally higher standard of knowledge on this forum will enable it, where the beginners on the other one slackened the pace to 1. smile
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Polyphonist

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#2046682 - 03/11/13 09:39 PM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13759
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Rachmaninoff 2nd Concerto, mvt. I

Here's a quick sketch:

Opening - Piano introduction on f minor. (Just a quick mention now, but this stuff becomes important later.)

R1 - C minor, Exposition, First Thematic Area
First theme begins in the orchestra with piano accompaniment.

R2 - Transition
A second phrase in the exposition with continued piano accompaniment. The opening of the phrase at R2 emphasizes the subdominant chord (which we heard in the piano introduction) and a fortissimo climax emphasizes a Neapolitan (Db7) chord. (Db also being a rather important note in the piano introduction.)

R3 - More Transition!
The piano finally gets a melody! It's the same melody that the orchestra has at R2, but shorter and propels the piano into some virtuoso figuration. The opening motive of the orchestra part at R1 (CDCDC) appears in the piano leading into R4, which takes us to the 2nd thematic area of our sonata form.

R4+8 - Eb Major (relative major), Second Thematic Area
The second thematic area is presented in the piano. It's in Eb Major and it's pretty. Note that the theme is a first inversion major triad with a whole step (G-Bb-Eb-F) and then a neighbor note thing (G-Ab-G.) This is important because...

R6 - Moment of Genius
Here we have some counterpoint. The orchestra begins and the piano follows. The melody in the piano consists of the two motives I mentioned in reverse order. We have a neighbor figure (this time C-Db-C) soon followed by a first inversion major triad with a whole step (this time D-F-Bb-C). Also clever is that the first inversion thing appears as accompaniment in the orchestra at R6+10, but augmented (in half notes instead of quarters.) Beethoven and Brahms are often credited as being masters of this kind of motivic efficiency, but Rachmaninoff could easily hold his own.

R6+16 (the un poco piu mosso) - Closing Theme
The exposition ends with this closing theme, in Eb Major. It has all the hallmarks of a classical closing theme. It's short, repetitive, and cadential. More motivic economy in the orchestra part - we get the same orchestra figure that opened the 2nd thematic area (G-C-B-Ab-G...) and the first theme from the exposition! (CDCDC, transposed here to EbFEbFEb...) Now it's time for...

R7 - The Development (sort of)
The development could be seen in two different places. It could start here, where the G7 harmony destabilizes the Eb Major second theme. Or it could be seen as starting at the Moto precedente (On a C7 chord.) Both make sense. I like how the rhythm of the opening theme from the exposition (dotted half - quarter) makes an appearance in the orchestra, and I like how the piano figuration in the two bars before the moto precedente is reminiscent of the piano accompaniment from the opening theme of the movement. Again - a nice bit of compositional economy from Rachmaninoff. (Who, like Beethoven and Brahms, constantly transforms and disguises his material so that it sounds familiar and interesting without being repetitive or monotonous.)

The development is a can o' worms, so I'll leave it for later. I hope that gives everyone enough to chew on for now...
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#2046693 - 03/11/13 09:49 PM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
ahhsmurf Offline
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so that's my current concerto love at the moment.

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#2046697 - 03/11/13 09:54 PM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Kreisler]
Polyphonist Online   content
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Thanks for the big overview Kreisler. Enjoyed reading your insight into the contrapuntal textures and economy employed by Rachmaninov.

Originally Posted By: Kreisler

The second thematic area is presented in the piano. It's in Eb Major and it's pretty.


Seems like a rather gross understatement to me... smile It's arguably one of the most beautiful melodies ever composed.
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Polyphonist

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#2046698 - 03/11/13 09:55 PM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: ahhsmurf]
Polyphonist Online   content
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Originally Posted By: ahhsmurf
so that's my current concerto love at the moment.


Cool! Mind telling us a little bit about the process of learning it? smile
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Polyphonist

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#2046702 - 03/11/13 10:02 PM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
keystring Offline
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Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Hopefully the generally higher standard of knowledge on this forum will enable it, where the beginners on the other one slackened the pace to 1. smile

The other forum is a learning forum ("beginner" is a misnomer) and the purpose there was to learn the concepts via analysis. I assume the decision to bring concerto analysis in this section was in order to look at concertos, rather than to learn about concerto form. It might be interesting at some point to do the same in the ABF, but with learning about concertos as the goal. In this forum one would assume that everyone knows what concertos are about, and so the interest is in the works themselves. I don't think that the standards are higher - the knowledge base and purpose are different.

It will be interesting to watch. It's a different angle.

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#2046706 - 03/11/13 10:07 PM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: keystring]
Mark_C Offline
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Originally Posted By: keystring
The other forum is a learning forum ("beginner" is a misnomer) and the purpose there was to learn the concepts via analysis. I assume the decision to bring concerto analysis in this section was in order to look at concertos, rather than to learn about concerto form. It might be interesting at some point to do the same in the ABF, but with learning about concertos as the goal. In this forum one would assume that everyone knows what concertos are about, and so the interest is in the works themselves. I don't think that the standards are higher - the knowledge base and purpose are different.

It will be interesting to watch. It's a different angle.

That's all part of why I didn't know what was being asked for.

I like clarity. grin

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#2046709 - 03/11/13 10:15 PM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
Polyphonist Online   content
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keystring is correct. We are not here to learn, we are here to share our love of music. Currently, keystring, we're looking at Rach's Concerto No. 2 in C minor, Op 18. The score can be downloaded here (anyone who needs a score should use this link): http://javanese.imslp.info/files/imglnks...ed.Gutheil_.pdf
The rehearsal marks are between the two piano parts.

Anything to add to the discussion? smile
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Polyphonist

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#2046716 - 03/11/13 10:23 PM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
Polyphonist Online   content
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Loc: New York City
And by the way, has everyone numbered the Chopin measures so I can post an overview of that? smile
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Polyphonist

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#2046736 - 03/11/13 11:01 PM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
keystring Offline
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Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
keystring is correct. We are not here to learn, we are here to share our love of music. Currently, keystring, we're looking at Rach's Concerto No. 2 in C minor, Op 18. The score can be downloaded here (anyone who needs a score....
Anything to add to the discussion? smile

Since I'm in the camp of those who are in PW to learn, I'll watch for now. smile

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#2046739 - 03/11/13 11:07 PM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
Polyphonist Online   content
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All right, well I think I'll start by opening the thread up for questions on theory, structure, or interpretation or technique, for any movement of either concerto. smile Questions welcome.

Meanwhile, if there are no questions, I will probably do an analysis of the first movement of the Chopin.
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Polyphonist

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#2046750 - 03/11/13 11:43 PM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
PianoStudent88 Offline
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Loc: Maine
It may take me a few days to be able to contribute. I want to order scores, and listen to both pieces several times, before starting.
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#2046754 - 03/11/13 11:54 PM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
Polyphonist Online   content
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Registered: 03/03/13
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Loc: New York City
Take your time. But purchasing the scores will not be necessary: they can be obtained for free on the following site: http://imslp.org/ smile
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Polyphonist

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#2046757 - 03/12/13 12:06 AM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13759
Loc: Iowa City, IA
I'd also like to say that I hope everyone thinks of this as an exercise in observation. Music theory and analysis isn't just about labeling chords and identifying the recapitulation. It's everything one might find interesting. Even people who don't have a theory background should feel welcome to make any kind of observation they feel is interesting. For example:

"This part sounds kinda like a mazurka."
"That F# sounds unusual and interesting..."
"Didn't Mendelssohn do something like that in the Reformation symphony?"

I'd also offer SHMRG as a framework for our discussion. It's a tool developed by musicologist Jan LaRue to help people listen to and think about music. More details here:

http://ttumusicology.wikispaces.com/SHMRG+details
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#2046759 - 03/12/13 12:12 AM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
Polyphonist Online   content
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Registered: 03/03/13
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I want to bring up a question about the first movement of the Chopin F minor: What are your favorite sections (give bar numbers)?

I really like the section from measure 151-168, and its return in 301-318. smile
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Polyphonist

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#2046760 - 03/12/13 12:15 AM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Kreisler]
Polyphonist Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7475
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
I'd also like to say that I hope everyone thinks of this as an exercise in observation. Music theory and analysis isn't just about labeling chords and identifying the recapitulation. It's everything one might find interesting. Even people who don't have a theory background should feel welcome to make any kind of observation they feel is interesting. For example:

"This part sounds kinda like a mazurka."
"That F# sounds unusual and interesting..."
"Didn't Mendelssohn do something like that in the Reformation symphony?"

I'd also offer SHMRG as a framework for our discussion. It's a tool developed by musicologist Jan LaRue to help people listen to and think about music. More details here:

http://ttumusicology.wikispaces.com/SHMRG+details


We cross-posted, Kreisler. And yes, I am encouraging this. smile Sorry if it didn't seem that way.
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Polyphonist

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#2046812 - 03/12/13 03:57 AM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
landorrano Offline
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Count me in as as interested observer!

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#2046904 - 03/12/13 10:29 AM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
FarmGirl Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 02 2013


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Me too. How exciting.
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Solo - Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2, Schubert Sonata D960 Andante sostenute (9/7/14), Bach f minor Fugue WTC Bk1, Rachmaninoff Elegie Op 3 #1, Chopin Trois Nouvelles Etudes #1



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#2046958 - 03/12/13 12:08 PM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
dire tonic Online   content
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I might not be able to stay the course or contribute but I'll certainly be following as far as I can.

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#2047486 - 03/13/13 06:32 AM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: PianoStudent88]
Elizium Offline
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Registered: 03/12/13
Posts: 4
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: PianoStudent88
I heard Daniil Trifonov play the Tschaikovsky First Piano Concerto last fall, so that's my current concerto love at the moment. But I'm up for anything.


I heard Daniil Trifonov playing Prokofiev's concert 1. It was such a brilliant performance! One of my favourite pianists now.

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#2047606 - 03/13/13 11:37 AM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
Polyphonist Online   content
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Stay on topic please... wink
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Polyphonist

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#2047613 - 03/13/13 11:58 AM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
PianoStudent88 Offline
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Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3153
Loc: Maine
Right, we're only discussing second piano concertos right now, not first piano concertos laugh.
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#2047924 - 03/13/13 11:00 PM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
Polyphonist Online   content
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Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7475
Loc: New York City
All right, I'm going to post a brief overview of the exposition of the first movement of the Chopin F minor concerto. This is not in any way intended to be a detailed or complete analysis.

Bars 1-70:
Orchestral introduction to the movement. The main themes are introduced. In the last few bars of this introduction there are hushed half-diminished chords, alternating voicings (look at the score and you'll see what I mean). This prepares the listener for the entrance of the piano.

Bars 71-74:
The piano has its own little introduction, leading into

Bars 75-82:
Statement of the first theme from the piano, with a little ornamentation.

Bars 83-100:
More of the thematic material, a little bit of development. Gains momentum near the end of the passage.

Bars 101-104: Interlude with a gradual ascending figure from the piano, and then a fast descending figure (again, look at the score). Leads into

Bars 105-112:
Another key melody, this time woven between sixteenth notes (semiquavers) in the RH. Near the end of the passage, the piano gets more arpeggiated figures, in a gradual crescendo to

Bars 113-114
Ascending figure similar to that in 101-103.

Bars 115-124
Passage similar to the preceding one (105-112). Arpeggios near the end lead into A flat major for the next theme...

Bars 125-140
Theme in major in the piano. with slight ornamentation.

Bars 141-147
Quite a bit of ornamentation, with fast runs (a couple of them are 18 against 4, again look at the score for details).

Bars 148-150
I isolated these few bars because they contain a major transition: the small notes in the piano at the end of bar 148, and the simple but effective following two bars, solidifying the new C minor tonality.

Bars 151-168
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, my favorite bars of the piece. The modulation of keys is as follows:
C minor-G minor-D minor-A minor-E minor-D major/minor (you'll see what I mean when you look at the score)-A flat, not counting small transitions.
The section from 165-168 is particularly lovely.

Bars 169-172
Running bass line against RH melody in chords. Modulates back to F minor.

Bars 173-174
Descending arpeggio figures in the RH, transitioning back once again to C minor. Again, look at the score for details.

Bars 175-178
The same 1-bar ascending figure used in successively higher octaves; once you learn it, you can play those whole 4 bars.

Bars 179-180
Trills/tremolos in both hands, concluding the exposition.

Performance tip: For these two bars, the RH is written as a trill on the D and Eb, with a sixteenth-note tremolo going on at the same time between the B natural and G around it (look at the score, otherwise you won't know what I'm talking about). This is performed by doing a tremolo between the thirds Eb-G and B natural-D, so you get the trill between the bottom note of the first third and the top note of the second third, and the tremolo between the top note of the first one and the bottom note of the second one. If that doesn't make sense to you please don't hesitate to tell me and I'll try to be clearer. I don't do a very good job explaining musical concepts in words... wink
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Polyphonist

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#2049199 - 03/16/13 03:54 PM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
Polyphonist Online   content
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Posts: 7475
Loc: New York City
What happened to the thread? wink

Nobody has posted for days for some reason, it seems like there were a lot of contributors before. Did people not realize I posted the Chopin concerto analysis in my last post? wink
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Polyphonist

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#2049392 - 03/16/13 10:40 PM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
Mark_C Offline
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19641
Loc: New York
I think there are a few issues. As I indicated early on, I thought the thread wasn't well defined. When it did start becoming clear what you had in mind, it wasn't really what would be called "analysis," so, the title is misleading. Sure, it's within a broad definition of the word but it's not really what we think of as analysis. I think the title might tend to scare away the people who might want to do what you want to do, and at the same time, the actual content just wouldn't interest people who might come on here looking for real "analysis." This is more like a cross between play-by-play and program notes. Nothing wrong with that -- but it's not well-described by the title. For this, maybe you'd do better starting a new thread and calling it something more in line with what it is.

I think another problem was that it wound up being about two concertos. One at a time makes more sense. (I know that it was Kreisler who suggested doing two, which I thought was a mistake, including because at that time it wasn't even clear what we were supposed to be doing.)

The admonition to "Stay on the topic" probably didn't help either, especially since the "topic" was very fuzzy, which you probably didn't realize. For what you want to do, I think it would be best to let it be very free-wheeling. Maybe part of the problem is that you think what you're doing is a more technical and specific thing than it is. If it were really "analysis," then I can see that it might make sense to try hard to keep it tight, but this is more general and casual -- so probably best to let it be casual. You indicated that there was trouble on the other thread keeping it on topic. Maybe it's in the nature of this kind of thing to meander (if people are interested in discussing it at all, which you should be glad about!) and maybe it's best for you to be OK with that. (I don't see why not!)

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#2050291 - 03/18/13 03:04 PM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
keystring Offline
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Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11549
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Mark C
You indicated that there was trouble on the other thread keeping it on topic.

(for clarification)
I'm going to rename the other forum as the ALF - Adult Learner Forum, to stress the purpose of the forum and its threads. There was a sonata analysis thread in order to get some basic knowledge out there, since "sonata form" is a basic form for understanding works. The purpose was not so much to analyze pieces, but to understand this form, going from simpler to more complex works.

Of course if you're learning about sonata form and analyzing music in that form, you also have to know how to recognize a subject, modulations, cadences and whatnot. A lot of the "wanderings" were necessary, and then also if you're trying to give prerequisite things ahead of time, how much do you give and how? These things are usually taught in courses where everything is preplanned and put into some kind of order.

Going from the sonata thread in the "ABF" to a concerto thread in this forum cannot be the same thing. You're not just graduating to a more complex form which more seasoned musicians know. Because they know it, they don't need to learn about it. Or if someone needs to learn about it, is this the right forum for that? Is this for "advanced learners" or for musicians?

If it is an exploration of certain concertos and it is assumed that people here understand concertos, do comparisons with other works play a role? If it is about concertos per se, does comparing other works play a role in the sense of seeing commonalities and differences?

I've been formally studying sonata form and analyzing sonatas, after graduating from the dance form (binary, ternary etc.), and I've looked at one concerto but haven't really gone out of my way to learn about concertos. I just had a quick look:

short definition
This tells me that the "sonata allegro form" being studied in the ABF is the form used in one of the movements of a concerto, and the dance forms I studied are used in other movements. And of course there is a solo part. I'm not sure whether this would be something to be studied here, or in the ABF.

Kreisler gave excellent suggestions, such as mentioning if part of the music reminds you of other music or certain forms. That leaves me out as participant because my knowledge base isn't broad enough yet, but that might put it to the level of this forum. But it would also mean allowing digressions. I would certainly lurk for that. If someone refers to a piece or musical form, anyone at any level can scoot over and look it up to compare.


Edited by keystring (03/18/13 04:13 PM)

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#2050296 - 03/18/13 03:13 PM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
PianoStudent88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3153
Loc: Maine
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
What happened to the thread? wink

Nobody has posted for days for some reason, it seems like there were a lot of contributors before. Did people not realize I posted the Chopin concerto analysis in my last post? wink

Am about to read keystring's posts, which I am sure are full of cogent ideas. For me, I have not forgotten this thread but it's taking me awhile to get marshaled to be able to do anything. I'm getting closer.
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#2050315 - 03/18/13 03:54 PM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
Steve Chandler Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 2693
Loc: Urbandale, Iowa
I'm with Mark in thinking the purpose of the thread is unclear. We've had the high level breakdown of what happens when and Polyphonist added significant detail, but it's hard to get into the nitty gritty of analyzing this because the topic is too big for one post. It doesn't help that the score linked is a 2 piano version and contains zero information about the orchestration. Of course this being a forum of pianists maybe we don't care about the orchestral part but it's integral to the piece and a piano reduction doesn't really help me understand what's going on.

Also getting back to Mark's criticism is this thread about the piano part and performance issues or is this focused on analyzing the concerto as a whole? So we've had the high level play by play but no one's analyzed the themes, polyphonist has touched on the harmonic structure, but what does all that accomplish and how are those effects created?

It seems we're focusing on Rach 2 which would be my preference. Maybe I'll go looking for a downloadable full score.

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#2050422 - 03/18/13 07:17 PM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
PianoStudent88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3153
Loc: Maine
There's at least one full score at imslp.org for Rachmaninoff Concerto 2. I can't imagine trying to analyse it from a reduction.
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#2050500 - 03/18/13 09:23 PM Re: Concerto Analysis [Re: Polyphonist]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13759
Loc: Iowa City, IA
There's a 2-piano score at IMSLP too.
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