Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad) Yamaha CP4 Rebate
Yamaha CP4 Rebate
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
64 registered (Azeyic, Almaviva, aesop, AndreaS85, 18 invisible), 1253 Guests and 17 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#2046544 - 03/11/13 03:51 PM voicing Bechsteins
musicbased Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/23/12
Posts: 114
Loc: UK
Hi, Im just wondering if anybody here knows the factory voicing procedure for Bechstein grands?

In Andre Oorebeek's book,he states the importance of knowing the different voicing procedures for each manufacturer, and then briefly mentions that Bechstein start with a 'thorough battery voicing' first,starting near the staple to bring up power, and then near the crown.
Does this mean that the traditional deep shoulder needling is not done?
Does anybody have experience with this?

Thanks,

Lewis.
_________________________
Technician UK
www.soundcloud.com/musicfield

Top
(ad 568) PTG Convention 2015 Denver
PTG Convention July 15 to 18 Denver
#2046577 - 03/11/13 05:24 PM Re: voicing Bechsteins [Re: musicbased]
S. Phillips Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 382
Loc: Forte Farm, Lexington, KY
Are you voicing a set of hammers that were already voiced in the factory or a new set of hammers from Bechstein that you are installing yourself?
_________________________
Sally Phillips
Piano Technician
One can always find something to improve.
2 Steinway Os, Steinway B & C
Phillips Piano Tech
Acoustic Piano Technical Consultant - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
New Federal and State Ivory Regulations and Pianos
http://www.pianobuyer.com/articles/ivory.html

Top
#2046585 - 03/11/13 05:37 PM Re: voicing Bechsteins [Re: musicbased]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
The shape of the head is different (while on more recent models I believe the voicing can be more standard)

To obtain that shape there is more felt send up so the hammer really enlarge , but the heads are also felted that way.

You need a really good rebound , somwhat slow, at FFF as the pianos is saturating soon, so making more battery (pre voicing) needling than usual make sense (and higher than usual)

near crown, I would say that we need the top of the hammer to be very well tense so I am cautious there, as the tension lower soon.
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


Top
#2046786 - 03/12/13 01:23 AM Re: voicing Bechsteins [Re: musicbased]
rXd Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 2096
And are you talking about a current production instrument or an older one?

How old is this Bechstein?
_________________________
Amanda Reckonwith
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.
Eschew obfuscation.



Top
#2046796 - 03/12/13 02:28 AM Re: voicing Bechsteins [Re: musicbased]
musicbased Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/23/12
Posts: 114
Loc: UK
Thanks for the replies.
Well it's just a general question really,but I guess I'm referring to new hammers on old Bechsteins.
_________________________
Technician UK
www.soundcloud.com/musicfield

Top
#2046844 - 03/12/13 07:43 AM Re: voicing Bechsteins [Re: musicbased]
S. Phillips Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 382
Loc: Forte Farm, Lexington, KY
If you are installing a new set you will have to do a pretty normal amount of needling to get them to blossom in tone. Starting at the staple area and working up. Be careful not to do much needling in the crown but do fit the hammers to the strings, and lightly needle in the strike point area so that you are only hearing the effect of the whole hammer.

The most common mistake is to assume that the brightness is coming from the bottom of the hammer and to over needle before you get to the strike point. It is really hard to talk about this without some examples to hear but you have to be careful. Use very small needles, get the strike point surface fitted and lightly corrected by muting off each string and needling only in the area that is hard under each string individually. Also on the older pianos you will have to file a bit more because the originals were probably smaller.

On Bechstein hammers coming directly out of the factory be aware that they are already needled in the shoulder area and confine your efforts to correcting the strike point issues. This should be done with the finest of needles that are very short. One or two needle strokes with a single needle will make a difference so move slowly and listen carefully to what you have done.

I also like to leave a day or so between the initial battery voicing and the final voicing, just gradually making the changes and giving the hammers time to adjust to what I've done.

I tend to use a combination of light needling and ironing, going back and forth with the two. As with other instruments, I needle a bit more on the proximal side of the hammer and iron more on the distal side. This works well with concert instruments to get a sweet tone on pppp without suffering a loss of power on ffff.
_________________________
Sally Phillips
Piano Technician
One can always find something to improve.
2 Steinway Os, Steinway B & C
Phillips Piano Tech
Acoustic Piano Technical Consultant - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
New Federal and State Ivory Regulations and Pianos
http://www.pianobuyer.com/articles/ivory.html

Top
#2046874 - 03/12/13 09:12 AM Re: voicing Bechsteins [Re: musicbased]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
If you want to listen to some interesting versions of Chopin played on older versions of Bechsteins (Steinways, Pleyel) , by reputed French pianists of the last century :

http://youtu.be/wuePtM_BhHY

On that youtube site the piano brand is given whenever available, and it is appreciated ...

Good listening...

Not to the glory of Pleyel concert grand of 1950 , nor the tuner, unfortunately, but there are other recordings on Pleyels that are way better.


Edited by Olek (03/12/13 09:40 AM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


Top
#2046993 - 03/12/13 01:35 PM Re: voicing Bechsteins [Re: musicbased]
musicbased Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/23/12
Posts: 114
Loc: UK
Thank you very much Sally!-Thats very useful. I find Bechsteins harder to voice than other pianos, they don't seem to respond to needling the same for some reason?-I've never been totally satisfied with my efforts!-Perhaps i'm making the mistake of thinking the brightness is coming from the bottom of the hammer as you said.
Looking forward to trying your tips on the next one..


Thanks for the link Isaac, i will that a watch!
_________________________
Technician UK
www.soundcloud.com/musicfield

Top
#2047185 - 03/12/13 06:37 PM Re: voicing Bechsteins [Re: musicbased]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: musicbased
Thank you very much Sally!-Thats very useful. I find Bechsteins harder to voice than other pianos, they don't seem to respond to needling the same for some reason?-I've never been totally satisfied with my efforts!-Perhaps i'm making the mistake of thinking the brightness is coming from the bottom of the hammer as you said.
Looking forward to trying your tips on the next one..


Thanks for the link Isaac, i will that a watch!


On the old ones the main problem is the weight, despite a lot of felt in the basses and mediums, the weight was light (around gr4 on Renner standard hammers, then today we have not enough felt)
asking for thin gr5 heads is may be a possibility, I am curious about the one produced for the factory (for the older models) but their price is high. I am unsure Renner can provide trapezoidal heads, but I will ask (also unsure the shape would be good for the expected dynamics).

You HAVE to feel those vibes in the keys it will avoid the hard tone.
That sweet brillancy is natural tendency for the piano, as a large tone but it need to be powered or the tone get harsh.


Edited by Olek (03/12/13 06:43 PM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
circle of 5ths coaster
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Hal Leonard Teacher VIP
Hal Leonard Teacher VIP Your Source for Piano Music
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Chickering Brothers Founder worked at Chickering and Sons?
by pianoman9
04/19/15 01:11 AM
Stress caused by bitter rivalry led to premature deaths
by newport
04/18/15 10:56 PM
Rug under piano on new hardwood flooring?
by Eric Gloo
04/18/15 07:23 PM
Switching to an IPad
by jjo
04/18/15 05:26 PM
Speaker positioning
by sandalholme
04/18/15 04:24 PM
What's Hot!!
Trade Regrets: Gary Trafton - Piano Rep
--------------------
Historic Piano Documents
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Forum Stats
78,941 Registered Members
44 Forums
163,345 Topics
2,397,400 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2015 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission