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I had a keyboard I used with a band. It was PSR630 I think; every instrument you could imagine with a lot more bedides. I worked with a compere wo thought he was a comedian; nobody laughed at his jokes. So I registered for "Applause" and at the appropriate time, pressesd the button.

I got a "car crash". . . . through a big PA system ha ha

If anybody wants to know if those other sounds on DPs are useful, here`s what I like to do. It`s fun,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6_ffqK4xRU

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Originally Posted by SoundThumb
I suppose manufactures include additional sounds so that someone like me will buy their instruments. When I finish practicing my piano pieces, I love to change up the patches and let the sound dictate the music rather than the music dictate the sound. But then, I am a patch junkie, not a piano purist. Apparently the world includes a few others like me.


+1


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additional sounds are just teasers, most of the time useless but they do their job in marketing.

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I wish same was true for a car dealers - I buy pickup truck and they throw in a small convertible...

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There is no guarantee that a reduction in voices would automatically mean a cheaper price or an increase in quality of piano tones.

I play The Beatles, "Yesterday" as a string quartet. Sounds great, and other people love it too.

There are many advantages to buying a digital piano, just as there are disadvantages.

One of the best features is the versatility, I don't want to lose it, despite the fact I virtually only play Acoustic Grand Piano.

In fact comparing a Roland V piano to a Roland RD 700NX I realised I could not justify the extra expense of the V Piano with the lack of facilities, and settled for the RD 700NX.

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Additional sounds are like UFOs: you either believe in them or you think they're useless for mankind (or womankind).

And like Marmite®, you either love 'em or hate 'em ©..... wink

BTW, if the V-Piano had non-piano sounds in it, I'd have thought a bit longer (like an extra hour or two) before committing to buying it, because I'd be thinking along the lines of 'Is Roland totally committed to its concept as an acoustic piano substitute, or are they still hedging their bets? Because if Roland isn't totally committed to it as a pure piano substitute, maybe they haven't fully developed it to their complete satisfaction yet.' I wouldn't settle for anything other than 100% commitment from any DP manufacturer.


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Memory is super cheap these days. And these other sounds use vastly less memory than the piano sound engine. Throwing in these extra sounds is probably cheaper than the toy surprise in cracker jacks.

tom

Last edited by Tom Fine; 03/11/13 03:29 PM.
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Originally Posted by Tom Fine
Memory is super cheap these days. And these other sounds use vastly less memory than the piano sound engine. Throwing in these extra sounds is probably cheaper than the toy surprise in cracker jacks.

tom


What about all those extra buttons, which not only clutter up the console but must surely add additional cost to the manufacture and circuitry, even if the memory itself costs peanuts?

On the V-Piano, there is just one dial to access all 28 piano sounds. If they'd added organ, EP, synth, strings, harpsichord etc, to the dial, one would have to scroll through all the piano sounds (plus your own customized piano sounds, which can number up to 100 if you're so inclined to tinker) to access one of them (or alternatively, scroll through all the junk to access the piano sounds). Or else clutter up the clean surface with an extra button for each additional sound.......which would make a serious pianist think twice about whether this really is a V-Piano or V-Synth. But Roland already has a V-Synth for such purposes.


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Originally Posted by bennevis

What about all those extra buttons, which not only clutter up the console but must surely add additional cost to the manufacture and circuitry, even if the memory itself costs peanuts?


you're right, those buttons cost is for sure noticeable for manufacture but if you sell product with main feature not good enough to stand on its own like piano or EP, you need to add something extra to convince reactant buyer.

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Originally Posted by bennevis
On the V-Piano, there is just one dial to access all 28 piano sounds. If they'd added organ, EP, synth, strings, harpsichord etc, to the dial, one would have to scroll through all the piano sounds (plus your own customized piano sounds, which can number up to 100 if you're so inclined to tinker) to access one of them (or alternatively, scroll through all the junk to access the piano sounds).

Wait until you hear that you have to use that same dial to access all 965 sounds in the Roland RD-700NX! grin

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My guess is that at the factory assembly level, the cost of a switch and a button is pennies. On the other hand, at the retail level, one can charge several dollars for that functionality. So theoretically, a keyboard without the extra patches could be sold for less. However, would a buyer choose a board with piano only that was $10 cheaper than a board next to it that for $10 included a number of additional patches? If I were a manufacturer, I wouldn't have the guts to try it.


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Most low cost digitals are sold to families with kids. Most kids like playing with the extra sounds. It is as simple as that. If a kid becomes serious about piano, the family will often buy an acoustic.

For stage pianos, many keyboard players are members of a band, where the extra sounds often come in handy.

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Originally Posted by Sand Tiger
Most low cost digitals are sold to families with kids. Most kids like playing with the extra sounds. It is as simple as that.

My wife teaches private piano, and she uses the DP as a something of a treat for the little ones. Most of the lesson is on the AP, and at the end they often move to the DP. The student gets to pick among the various sounds while they play their piece over and over (and over). Good way to stimulate practice. (Really young students with weak fingers often have their lessons entirely on the DP due to the somewhat lighter action.)

This is another reason the RD-700NX is nice, there are gobs of sounds in there, and the UI is simple enough for children and non-technical adults to grasp the rudiments fairly intuitively.

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Originally Posted by dewster
Originally Posted by Sand Tiger
Most low cost digitals are sold to families with kids. Most kids like playing with the extra sounds. It is as simple as that.

My wife teaches private piano, and she uses the DP as a something of a treat for the little ones. Most of the lesson is on the AP, and at the end they often move to the DP. The student gets to pick among the various sounds while they play their piece over and over (and over). Good way to stimulate practice. (Really young students with weak fingers often have their lessons entirely on the DP due to the somewhat lighter action.)

This is another reason the RD-700NX is nice, there are gobs of sounds in there, and the UI is simple enough for children and non-technical adults to grasp the rudiments fairly intuitively.


I suppose it depends on how serious the child is about learning to play the piano. I watched a documentary film recently about child prodigies in Russia - the audition for the music school included the teacher playing several seven-note chords (not straightforward diatonic ones, with the two hands spaced apart) on her piano, then the child (about 7 years old) repeats those chords, note-for-note, instantly, without being able to see the teacher's hands. This depends not just on the child having absolute pitch, but also highly developed musical ears.

One would expect that children like that won't need funny sounds to keep them interested in learning to play the piano and keep practising.....


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Bennevis, your point is well taken, but I do not think life is as straight forward, or the path between great and small quite so linear as your comparison would suggest. I'd be willing to bet that Haydn, Mozart & Beethoven, for instance, would have been very taken with the range of sounds that come on a Casio, Roland or Korg. I bet they'd have been intrigued - inspired with new ideas even.


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bennevis, if that were the standard for learning to play, very few people would ever learn. I would not want a world where the playing of music is confined to child prodigies who spend hours a day focused on their instruments and have no time for sports or play or sleepovers with their friends. Much of learning to play the piano is drudgery (PLAYING is fun, learning to play not so much). If one can make learning more fun for children, why wouldn't you want that? If one can make the creation of music accessible to more people, why wouldn't one want that?

For my own playing, I find that practicing pieces with different sounds helps me learn them more solidly. Also, it's just fun sometimes. I love the sound of the piano, and love playing piano. But sometimes it can be fun to layer a pad under it, or play a piece with the vibraphone (or whatever), or improvise a bit with a bass sound in the left hand split, etc...


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Originally Posted by fizikisto
bennevis, if that were the standard for learning to play, very few people would ever learn. I would not want a world where the playing of music is confined to child prodigies who spend hours a day focused on their instruments and have no time for sports or play or sleepovers with their friends. Much of learning to play the piano is drudgery (PLAYING is fun, learning to play not so much). If one can make learning more fun for children, why wouldn't you want that? If one can make the creation of music accessible to more people, why wouldn't one want that?

For my own playing, I find that practicing pieces with different sounds helps me learn them more solidly. Also, it's just fun sometimes. I love the sound of the piano, and love playing piano. But sometimes it can be fun to layer a pad under it, or play a piece with the vibraphone (or whatever), or improvise a bit with a bass sound in the left hand split, etc...


Point taken, but I have an awful suspicion that if I'd started out learning on such a DP as a child, I wouldn't have become a classical pianist and be able to play most of the world's great piano music that's been composed over the past few centuries.

I was very intrigued by, and learning about new things - especially mechanical ones that I can participate in. (I loved designing and making model planes that can fly, and taking things apart to see how they worked, for instance). If I had a DP that could give me all sorts of sounds and rhythm accompaniments etc when I was learning to play, I'd have spent all my 'practice' time playing with all those possibilities, rather than building up my technique and musicianship - which required thousands of hours of incessant practising, and listening critically to myself playing, for which there are no short-cuts (as I was no prodigy cry).


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Originally Posted by bennevis
Point taken, but I have an awful suspicion that if I'd started out learning on such a DP as a child, I wouldn't have become a classical pianist and be able to play most of the world's great piano music that's been composed over the past few centuries.
...
If I had a DP that could give me all sorts of sounds and rhythm accompaniments etc when I was learning to play, I'd have spent all my 'practice' time playing with all those possibilities, rather than building up my technique

We are largely the sum of our experiences, some within in our control, and some not. If your parents had started you off on some keyboard with lots of sounds, you might be right that you would not have developed the same orientation of a classical pianist, but who knows, maybe it would have put you on an early path to being an orchestrator. Or auto-accompaniment may have led you down a path more toward composition. There's no better or worse here, really, as it is impossible to know which may have ultimately been more rewarding!

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If I had a DP that could give me all sorts of sounds and rhythm accompaniments etc when I was learning to play, I'd have spent all my 'practice' time playing with all those possibilities, rather than building up my technique and musicianship - which required thousands of hours of incessant practising, and listening critically to myself playing, for which there are no short-cuts


Maybe, who knows? You might have ended up a composer instead of playing songs of composers that have long since died.


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Originally Posted by Kbeaumont
Quote
If I had a DP that could give me all sorts of sounds and rhythm accompaniments etc when I was learning to play, I'd have spent all my 'practice' time playing with all those possibilities, rather than building up my technique and musicianship - which required thousands of hours of incessant practising, and listening critically to myself playing, for which there are no short-cuts


Maybe, who knows? You might have ended up a composer instead of playing songs of composers that have long since died.


Actually, I've been composing since my late teens - very bad music, with more style than substance, that I've only ever played to a select few (who probably wished they hadn't been selected grin): mostly for solo piano, but also a few chamber works and songs. In several different styles, including a couple of tangos and some jazz-inspired pieces. Plus an experimental atonal piece in which anything resembling a tune or recognizable harmony is purely coincidental. (A Mozart I'm not. Not even a John Williams.... wink ). I also improvise - again badly, in a variety of styles.

My opus currently runs to no. 147 at present....


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