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#2039479 - 02/26/13 08:46 AM the FIVE TIMES practice rule, from jazzwee´s blog
Marco M Offline
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Registered: 08/28/12
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Loc: Europe
Member JAZZWEE recommends in his blog, citing his teacher, that a good practice objective could be to just play something perfectly FIVE TIMES, instead of practicing something for hours allowing errors. JAZZWEE asks, that if you make a mistake, the count goes back to zero, and if you keep making a mistake, then slow your playing down.

Your FIVE TIMES rule is an excellent recommendation. Thanks for this, JAZZWEE!!!

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#2039480 - 02/26/13 08:49 AM Re: the FIVE TIMES practice rule, from jazzwee´s blog [Re: Marco M]
Monica K. Offline

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Registered: 08/10/05
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I think it's wise advice. I know I have the regrettable tendency to practice something until I nail it once and then switch to something else in the glow of victory. Of course, the next time I attempt it I rarely nail it again. mad
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#2039481 - 02/26/13 08:51 AM Re: the FIVE TIMES practice rule, from jazzwee´s blog [Re: Marco M]
rocket88 Offline
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It works like magic!
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#2039488 - 02/26/13 09:10 AM Re: the FIVE TIMES practice rule, from jazzwee´s blog [Re: Marco M]
malkin Online   content
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If my section is rocky, I'll sometimes stop at three, but then the next day it is up to five.
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#2039490 - 02/26/13 09:13 AM Re: the FIVE TIMES practice rule, from jazzwee´s blog [Re: rocket88]
SwissMS Offline
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I was taught a variation of this (7 times error free) by my teacher back in Oregon. If you cannot get it error free, then you need to go slower or take a smaller section. I keep 7 little notecards on my piano music shelf, and flip through them as I play. The little break to change the card seems to give a mental reset. I can attest that it does work!
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#2039491 - 02/26/13 09:16 AM Re: the FIVE TIMES practice rule, from jazzwee´s blog [Re: Marco M]
rocket88 Offline
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The other part of it is to stop after the session of 5 (or 8), just a small number, and then sleep on it, i.e. come back the next day.

This is because the brain does its sorting/learning during sleep.
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#2039505 - 02/26/13 09:49 AM Re: the FIVE TIMES practice rule, from jazzwee´s blog [Re: Marco M]
Andy Platt Offline
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I haven't read this book but ...

Quote:
The elder Mozart would place ten dried peas in his son’s left coat pocket, and for each successful attempt at a difficult passage, Mozart would move a single pea to his right pocket. When he failed on any piece, even if it was the tenth repetition, all the peas had to be placed back in his left pocket — Wolfgang had to begin anew. What usually happens when using this method is that the student slows down his tempo in order to play the passage perfectly.


From the book "Slow practice will get you there faster" by Ernest Dras.

Everytime I actually put this into practice, two things happen: (a) It works, (b) My family yells at me. Sigh.
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#2039511 - 02/26/13 09:58 AM Re: the FIVE TIMES practice rule, from jazzwee´s blog [Re: Marco M]
Derulux Offline
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Slow and correct practice always works. Just another trick to get you there.

I believe Czerny wrote in his exercises to repeat each section 20 times perfectly before upping the tempo.
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#2039544 - 02/26/13 10:55 AM Re: the FIVE TIMES practice rule, from jazzwee´s blog [Re: Marco M]
jotur Online   blank
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Smaller sections, FTW. It's rarely a whole long passage that's giving me trouble - it's a measure or two, or even a movement from one chord to another. So I have to stop, problem solve as jazzwee points out, to figure out how my hand or body needs to move, or if intuitively I'm thinking C chord when it's F, or whatever, and then do that piece until it works several times in a row. And usually slowly, paying attention to what the problem was.

Cathy
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#2039554 - 02/26/13 11:11 AM Re: the FIVE TIMES practice rule, from jazzwee´s blog [Re: Marco M]
jazzwee Offline
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Thanks Marco M for the honorable mention.

This technique should be combined with a couple of other concepts:

1. Chunking (meaning apply this rule not to a whole piece but identified problems in specific chunks). It need not be part of a piece, just some problem to solve.

2. The idea of practicing only for some limited number of repetitions (5 times in my case) is to free up your time for other more productive endeavors such as dealing with MULTIPLE issues in one practice session.

The idea of '5 times only' means that you'll have to fill up an hour or two with a LOT of other stuff. In contrast, the idea of practicing the same thing for 1-2 hours is not productive since as Rocket88 says, we learn in our sleep. The concept is to file an inventory of little skills in your subconscious every time you sleep. And at some point, this inventory of skills gets big enough that it shows up in your playing (usually in a few months).

I suppose the '5 times' is arbitrary. My teacher taught me 5 and I stuck to that. Five is hard enough. But whatever it is, it's some small number because it has to be achievable. Playing something perfectly 100 times for example, in one sitting, may not be doable in one sitting, especially when you slow it down.

I ought to say though that if you can play it perfectly 20 times, then perhaps it isn't difficult enough. Because here's the issue: YOU CANNOT STOP UNTIL YOU REACH YOUR GOAL. If you do stop, you have just stored the ERROR in your subconscious. Remember that every mistake sets you back to ZERO. So it may take 50 tries (or multiple attempts to decrease the tempo), to do it right 5 times.

With this as the logic, you can see why the 5 times sounds reasonable. But I will not argue with anyone who chooses 6.

Playing piano is hard enough. I've just accumulated little tidbits over the years to keep the learning as short as possible since I will likely not be around in 30 years. smile
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#2039562 - 02/26/13 11:19 AM Re: the FIVE TIMES practice rule, from jazzwee´s blog [Re: Marco M]
Marco M Offline
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Registered: 08/28/12
Posts: 451
Loc: Europe
I also liked to read in the same blog, that if you repeatedly have to stop somewhere because you can´t pass that pattern without making the delay, than you only practice the pausing, but not the correct playing of that part.
So simple, so true.
Everywhere I read that I should practice slow and correctly, but by this few extra words this recommendation to me gained the necessary significance.

smile Next month I can start to work with a teacher, it at last became possible and is organized. Hopefully mine will be as helpful as jazzwee´s was! Have had to save hard for it, and also have had to search long for finding one who appears to have a real interest in teaching an already square headed adult beginner the same serious and hard as a fresh conservatory student. I will miss the forum, now that I have to do homeworks more seriously and will not have so much time anymore to hang out here wink.

EDIT: JAZZWEE, while I was writing you already contributed to this thread as well. Congratulations to your ability to summarize things in so clear words and for all your efforts to share your fruitful experiences!


Edited by Marco M (02/26/13 11:32 AM)

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#2039569 - 02/26/13 11:35 AM Re: the FIVE TIMES practice rule, from jazzwee´s blog [Re: Marco M]
jazzwee Offline
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Marco, I spent a LOT of money on teachers. Close to $200 per hour! So I'm glad to share what I've learned for free. It helps me too since verbalizing (writing it) embeds it more deeply in my brain.

I have to say though that a teacher is needed for "Problem Identification" since often you will not hear or realize a mistake/issue. But still the burden of "Problem Resolution" lies only on us students.

I don't have a teacher now but I try to emulate the same process. Focus on identifying problem areas. Make a list. And then. Practice as above to eliminate.

This means, BTW, that problem identification could be as much time away from the piano as on it. In my case, I listen to my recordings and see if I can understand the flaws. Unfortunately, sometimes we can't hear it and that's the other skill and often requires careful listening and comparison with the masters.

So: are you making a list of problems? I'm sure I'll make another blog post related to this. It takes a lot of discipline to maintain the kind of practice strategy I do. But if you're up for it, then you should develop just as fast.
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#2039571 - 02/26/13 11:43 AM Re: the FIVE TIMES practice rule, from jazzwee´s blog [Re: Marco M]
justpin Offline
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I disagree with this.

There needs to be a limit to how many tries. Say 5 times perfectly or to a v good standard. Out of ten tries.

Often if you make a mistake you can't work out playing it over and over leads to frustration anger and abandonment.

Sometimes just taking a day out helps me get it right.

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#2039574 - 02/26/13 11:49 AM Re: the FIVE TIMES practice rule, from jazzwee´s blog [Re: justpin]
Andy Platt Offline
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Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2375
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: justpin
I disagree with this.

There needs to be a limit to how many tries. Say 5 times perfectly or to a v good standard. Out of ten tries.

Often if you make a mistake you can't work out playing it over and over leads to frustration anger and abandonment.

Sometimes just taking a day out helps me get it right.


The other school of thought for this is that you just slow it down until you can do it right, even if that becomes painfully slow. There is a good reason for not leaving the last thing you do with a phrase be a mistake so if you get it right really really slowly, then stop and come back the next day, theoretically you will be in a better place.
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#2039581 - 02/26/13 11:59 AM Re: the FIVE TIMES practice rule, from jazzwee´s blog [Re: Marco M]
casinitaly Offline


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Registered: 03/01/10
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I had to look up FTW.....:)

I haven't tried this technique, but I am finally truly coming to grips with the concept of playing small bits slowly and getting it absolutely right before moving on, and I see what a difference it is making to how quickly I can get into the particulars of any given piece I'm working on.

I am going to give the FTT "5 time target" (lol)a try!
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Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
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#2039594 - 02/26/13 12:21 PM Re: the FIVE TIMES practice rule, from jazzwee´s blog [Re: Andy Platt]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: Andy Platt
Originally Posted By: justpin
I disagree with this.

There needs to be a limit to how many tries. Say 5 times perfectly or to a v good standard. Out of ten tries.

Often if you make a mistake you can't work out playing it over and over leads to frustration anger and abandonment.

Sometimes just taking a day out helps me get it right.


The other school of thought for this is that you just slow it down until you can do it right, even if that becomes painfully slow. There is a good reason for not leaving the last thing you do with a phrase be a mistake so if you get it right really really slowly, then stop and come back the next day, theoretically you will be in a better place.


Exactly. One can do ANYTHING as long as
(a) It slowed down enough
(b) The chunk is made smaller

In other words, one has to plan it out so one ends the day with an achievement. You never want to end with a failure as that will set you back.

If a person is reaching frustration, one needs to think about what one is trying to accomplish. If it is "play the whole piece perfectly", that's too broad. Many parts of the piece one may already do well so why waste time on that? Just isolate the problem area.

Remember the difference between "practicing", not "performing". Decide which it is you're trying to do.
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#2039596 - 02/26/13 12:26 PM Re: the FIVE TIMES practice rule, from jazzwee´s blog [Re: justpin]
rocket88 Offline
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Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3158
Originally Posted By: justpin
I d Say 5 times perfectly or to a v good standard.


If you are practicing a phrase, for example, it should be absolutely perfect.

That is because you are literally programming your brain to do a set of motions.

Unfortunately, that data that you "program in" is recorded by your brain, so whatever it is becomes what you learn. That is why "Practice makes Perfect" is so wrong. It is "Practice makes Permanent".

I
Originally Posted By: Jazzwee
n other words, one has to plan it out so one ends the day with an achievement. You never want to end with a failure as that will set you back.


Also, I think that the brain tends to learn the last thing you did, so the last of the set of 5 should be clear, clean, precise.

Thus, go as slow as necessary to put in an absolutely perfect example. Do it a small number of times, then then sleep on it. Repeat.

After you have the phrase so it is clean and precise, then slowly increase the tempo to playing speed. Then increase it, as Jazzwee said, beyond so you have a cushion of higher tempo, and thus playing tempo is not at your edge of ability, but below it.
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#2039601 - 02/26/13 12:32 PM Re: the FIVE TIMES practice rule, from jazzwee´s blog [Re: Marco M]
rocket88 Offline
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Another thing about this:

Work at getting everything perfect, not just the notes and fingering, because everything you do as you practice that section is part of practicing that section.

This would include:

1. Sitting in a relaxed pose.

2. Calm and relaxed as you play.

3. Dynamics corrrect.

4. Hand/arm position correct.

And so on.
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#2039685 - 02/26/13 03:04 PM Re: the FIVE TIMES practice rule, from jazzwee´s blog [Re: Marco M]
Stubbie Offline
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Registered: 12/16/10
Posts: 371
Loc: Midwest USA
There is some (okay, a lot) of interesting reading on this topic by poster 'Bernhard' over on Pianostreet, from a few years back:

Question about Bernhard method
Quote:
I can give you the general principles, and you can try to apply these general principles to your particular problem. The drawback is that you will have no feedback. You may misunderstand what I say, or I may say it in a misleading way. You may think you are doing what I suggested when in fact you are doing something quite different. You may have no clue about premises I take for granted, and I may have no clue about where your real problem lies, and my suggestions (that is all they are) may be completely off the mark. So you need some landmarks to make sure you are following the map correctly....Your most important landmark: Expect progress or evidence of progress.

Progress should also be quick. Think of frying an egg. You follow the instructions: break the egg, put oil in frying pan, put eggs in frying pan. If after 5 minutes or so nothing is happening, something is wrong.... If after 2 hours the egg is still runny, you have gone the wrong alley. If you ask me, I would venture that you forgot to turn the fire on. You see, turning the fire on is taken for granted, so no such instruction is given. If you have never seen a fried egg before, you will not be able to ascertain if it is cooked or not. You may end up eating it raw and thinking it is a great delicacy (the origins of sashimi, perhaps?).

So what kind of progress are we talking about here?

The basic rule is seven repeats. Repeat what you are trying to learn seven times. If after that period you have not learned it, or have not experienced dramatic progress, you are trying to learn a chunk too large for your present abilities. Cut it in half. Try seven times again. If necessary cut it in half again. Depending on the piece you may end up with just 2 notes. However anyone can always manage two notes after repeating them seven times.

In the beginning this method will seem unnecessarily long and laborious. However as you apply it consistently over the course of a couple of weeks (or even a couple of days), you will develop experience and you will be able to look at a passage and immediately tell what size and how long it will take you to master it.

So seven repeats is what directs your decision in regards to the size of the passage you are trying to tackle...

Having decided on the passage size, you are now ready to practise it. This you will do for 20 minutes. There is a lot of slack here. Maybe 2 minutes will be enough. Maybe you will need 10 or 15 minutes. However pianists are compulsive individuals. They will go on for ten hours. So 20 minutes is actually a maximum: do not practise any passage for more than 20 minutes. It is counter productive....

Perhaps the most important is that it will have the contrary effect to improvement. As you repeat something over and over again, fatigue (both mental and physical) sets in. As a result you start to make mistakes. Soon you are practising your mistakes. And as you become obsessed in getting back your previous degree of mastery – which you attained around the 10 minutes stage – you keep frantically repeating and repeating and getting more and more tired and making more and more mistakes. Since your brain usually stores the best your very last repeat, it will be these repeats full of mistakes that will be waiting for you next day first thing in the morning. So you always want to stop your practice at your best rendition of the passage.

Again in the beginning, this may be difficult to judge – which is why a teacher can be very helpful at the beginning: if he knows his stuff he will make you stop and even suggest the passage size for you.

...it is very difficult to keep your focus and concentration on a passage for more than 20 minutes, and your practice will be mechanical. This is worse than not practising.

There are of course exceptions. I am mostly talking here about working on small passages....


That following the Repeats practice routine takes discipline is stating the obvious. eek It does, however, seem to work, as several posters here have attested to.

More food for thought from 'Bernhard':
Practice tips--list
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#2039697 - 02/26/13 03:32 PM Re: the FIVE TIMES practice rule, from jazzwee´s blog [Re: Marco M]
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3158
Originally Posted By: Stubbie
There is some (okay, a lot) of interesting reading on this topic by poster 'Bernhard' over on Pianostreet, from a few years back:


Quote:
Having decided on the passage size, you are now ready to practise it. This you will do for 20 minutes. There is a lot of slack here. Maybe 2 minutes will be enough. Maybe you will need 10 or 15 minutes.


Quote:
...it is very difficult to keep your focus and concentration on a passage for more than 20 minutes,


This is exactly what I have found does not work.

It is another version of over-practicing, which many people do with poor results.

Practicing a passage for anything more that 3 or 4 or 5 or so times is completely the opposite to what we are talking about.
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#2039718 - 02/26/13 04:12 PM Re: the FIVE TIMES practice rule, from jazzwee´s blog [Re: rocket88]
justpin Offline
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Registered: 03/25/12
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Loc: Holmes Chapel
I again disagree.

I could spend a long time working on one piece to get it absolutely perfect, except there are diminishing returns and an opportunity cost of being able to do something else in that time.

Why do I want to get it uber perfect anyway? I am not a concert pianist, it isn't my bread and butter. I don't play for others and as said I would rather broaden my skills in other places rather than have a super overspecialisation.

A learner here was focusing on a super high level piece and was getting through it slowly.

I too looked at a super difficult piece. I could have gone grinding to get it right. But I spent a year learning other things. I go back to the piece and it is easy.



Edited by justpin (02/26/13 04:15 PM)

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#2039723 - 02/26/13 04:19 PM Re: the FIVE TIMES practice rule, from jazzwee´s blog [Re: Marco M]
jazzwee Offline
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Justpin, I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. The technique described is a way to "learn fast". It has nothing to do with overspecialization or level of the piece.

You decide what you want to learn. What's being discussed is a way to do that with the least amount of effort.
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#2039744 - 02/26/13 04:56 PM Re: the FIVE TIMES practice rule, from jazzwee´s blog [Re: Marco M]
justpin Offline
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Registered: 03/25/12
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Loc: Holmes Chapel
Its the you must be perfect comment that irks me. Different people have different standards.

You can find Joe Hishashi videos where he makes a tiny mistake, Lang lang now and again. Does this mean he's not practiced enough? No it just means he's human.

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#2039752 - 02/26/13 05:08 PM Re: the FIVE TIMES practice rule, from jazzwee´s blog [Re: Marco M]
casinitaly Offline


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Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 4869
Loc: Italy
Justpin, no one is saying that we all have to be 100% perfect all the time - of course not! Everyone makes mistakes!

What we're looking at here is an intense-focus technique that helps you get a certain number of notes down pat during study time, efficiently and effectively.

If I can play a tricky bar 5 times in a row without making a mistake, at a slow speed, chances are pretty strong that I know what I'm supposed to be doing. Then if I can go in cyucles of speeding up and still get it right five times in a row, then I can feel pretty confident that I've done a good job of practicing and that in performance mode I'm probably not going to make a mistake. I might, but I will have reduced the odds significantly.

It is a lot easier to focus briefly on small sections than to try to focus for a long time on a long difficult passage or piece. I'm finally understanding this and that's why I'm keen to try out the ideas expressed in this thread.

And in the end... no need to be irked - no one is insisting that this is the only way to go -it is just something that has worked for some and is being shared in a spirit of helpfulness!

If it isn't your cuppa tea...don't drink it! smile
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Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
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#2039786 - 02/26/13 06:05 PM Re: the FIVE TIMES practice rule, from jazzwee´s blog [Re: jazzwee]
Derulux Offline
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Posts: 5281
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
I ought to say though that if you can play it perfectly 20 times, then perhaps it isn't difficult enough. Because here's the issue: YOU CANNOT STOP UNTIL YOU REACH YOUR GOAL. If you do stop, you have just stored the ERROR in your subconscious. Remember that every mistake sets you back to ZERO. So it may take 50 tries (or multiple attempts to decrease the tempo), to do it right 5 times.

Of course, there is the opposite belief that if you can't play it right every time, the music might be too hard for you. wink

There is a quote I once heard. I don't remember it verbatim, so I will be paraphrasing, but it goes like this: "What is the difference between a good amateur and a true professional virtuoso? The amateur practices until he plays it right. The professional practices until he can't play it wrong."
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#2039803 - 02/26/13 06:54 PM Re: the FIVE TIMES practice rule, from jazzwee´s blog [Re: Derulux]
jazzwee Offline
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Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: Derulux

There is a quote I once heard. I don't remember it verbatim, so I will be paraphrasing, but it goes like this: "What is the difference between a good amateur and a true professional virtuoso? The amateur practices until he plays it right. The professional practices until he can't play it wrong."



I posted that quote myself somewhere smile Of course in theory, any phrase can be played and is within reach in slow motion. However, it would probably not be worth listening to. LOL.

You are definitely correct though. The whole idea is to have on-file a large collection of skills (from the problem focused approach here) and then more complex music can be played without the need for this meticulous exercise.

What the detractors are missing is that once you have acquired a skill at playing "x phrase at 100bpm" then you will never have to repeat this exercise again. Maybe next time it will be "x phrase at 120bpm".

I'm not sure who wouldn't want this. The current unorganized strategy is to play "x piece 500 times" and it still comes out bad. Given that time is always a premium, you would think this is would be a no-brainer since it's a time saver.
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#2039817 - 02/26/13 07:24 PM Re: the FIVE TIMES practice rule, from jazzwee´s blog [Re: casinitaly]
rocket88 Offline
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Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3158
Originally Posted By: casinitaly
Justpin, no one is saying that we all have to be 100% perfect all the time - of course not! Everyone makes mistakes!


Exactly.

Keep in mind two things.

First, when you practice, its like programming a computer. In the computer world, there is an acronym: GIGO: which stands for Garbage in, Garbage out.

By practicing something so that it is perfect, then, later, when you are playing with the burden of in front of other people, or recording, or just the passage of time, you will have a perfect example from which to play, and yes, you will likely make mistakes.

But if your example is one with built-in mistakes or errors, you are starting from a unperfect example, and it usually goes downhill from there.
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#2039872 - 02/26/13 09:18 PM Re: the FIVE TIMES practice rule, from jazzwee´s blog [Re: jazzwee]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5281
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
Originally Posted By: Derulux

There is a quote I once heard. I don't remember it verbatim, so I will be paraphrasing, but it goes like this: "What is the difference between a good amateur and a true professional virtuoso? The amateur practices until he plays it right. The professional practices until he can't play it wrong."



I posted that quote myself somewhere smile Of course in theory, any phrase can be played and is within reach in slow motion. However, it would probably not be worth listening to. LOL.

You are definitely correct though. The whole idea is to have on-file a large collection of skills (from the problem focused approach here) and then more complex music can be played without the need for this meticulous exercise.

What the detractors are missing is that once you have acquired a skill at playing "x phrase at 100bpm" then you will never have to repeat this exercise again. Maybe next time it will be "x phrase at 120bpm".

I'm not sure who wouldn't want this. The current unorganized strategy is to play "x piece 500 times" and it still comes out bad. Given that time is always a premium, you would think this is would be a no-brainer since it's a time saver.

Ah, there's the rub! You seem to think that most people want to practice correctly. They don't. Most people want to play correctly. The tedium of practicing correctly is so drab and boring that most people cannot stand it. That's why so very few people are at the top of the craft. They're the only ones who can stand it. wink

And this applies to nearly anything-- schoolwork, sports, reading, writing, public speaking, performing magic tricks.. anything where a skill is required that one does not have. People want to do, not to practice. That's why we have so many, "[x]-step programs to get [insert what it is you want here]" and things like "8 minutes to killer abs!" and Jane Fonda tapes, and p90x, and all those other BS marketing schemes. They prey on this exact mindset. People don't want to change what they do. They only want to see results. And they want, above all, to have fun doing it.

Even your "five times practice rule" falls into this category. (Don't get me wrong--it's a great marketing technique, and I applaud you for it.) People don't want to sit at the piano and play something slowly until they learn it the right way. So, this "quick little technique" starts to get them doing the right things, they think, "hey, it's only five times," and they begin to see drastic improvements. Why? Because they're finally starting to do the right things.

Where I take issue is when people preach that you can become a virtuoso by this method, or that you can be Mr. Olympia doing "Six-Minute Abs", etc. I don't think you took your comments in that direction, so your ideas are going to help people without giving them false hopes. That, I admire. smile

(This may have rambled a little.. I am doing three things at once right now.)
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#2039883 - 02/26/13 09:43 PM Re: the FIVE TIMES practice rule, from jazzwee´s blog [Re: Marco M]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Hi Derelux,

Perhaps a disclosure is in order. Especially for those who haven't known me before.

I don't sell anything, have no plans to sell anything, and I have no agenda. So anything I've posted anywhere on ABF since 2007 is freely given. Neither do I purport to be a know-it-all (and this doesn't reference your post since you've been very nice thumb). I'm just documenting my experience which is current and seemingly successful, for me at least). I certainly know my weaknesses and have a lot further to go.

The reference to the above blog post (posted by Marco M without my participation) is but a tool and it's a long (though fun) journey.

I certainly will not want to judge anyone who doesn't like any kind of discipline in their learning style. That's for each one to determine. I only write to my blog and here in various posts because some people seem to find it useful. And fortunately, I enjoy writing it.

I do get asked the questions I posted in my blog a lot (received in PM's). And I thought it wise to just blog a response so I don't have to keep typing over and over.

And these are certainly just my opinions and everyone is free to disagree and I will not take it personally. Also fortunately, I don't offer false hopes since I'm no Horowitz or Keith Jarrett. I'm just a typical late adult beginner that just wanted to get a little better before I get too old, but instead got a lot better.

And of course, I'm a jazz player so my interests may not coincide with all. I just hope I encourage SOME people to dream a little bit and then reach those dreams. smile
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

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#2039930 - 02/27/13 12:44 AM Re: the FIVE TIMES practice rule, from jazzwee´s blog [Re: jazzwee]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5281
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
I don't sell anything, have no plans to sell anything, and I have no agenda.

This is, perhaps, what I like the best about your posts. The genuine nature behind what you say, specifically because you're not "selling" anything. smile

And believe me, I know you've been around. We've talked about other topics over the years. (If anything, I'm the one who disappeared for a couple years.. haha)

I'm glad you didn't take offense by my post. I was trying to talk about two things at once: 1) the BS marketing crap I hate, 2) the great and encouraging advice you've provided to others. It was really tough to lump them together into one post, especially in the midst of many distractions.

Edit: PS- I like jazz. I was once a member of three different jazz groups. (Small stuff, barely got paid enough to put gas in the car, but it was fun.) smile


Edited by Derulux (02/27/13 12:45 AM)
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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