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#2047612 - 03/13/13 11:53 AM Ideas for plate to pinblock marker compound
David Jenson Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 2139
Loc: Maine
For years I've used chalk-line chalk to do the plate-to-block fitting. I've tried various colors, finally settling on red, but I find the stuff doesn't stick well to the plate and the transfer points are difficult to see clearly.

Do any of you who do pin block replacement have another marking compound that is easier to see?
_________________________
David L. Jenson
Tuning - Repairs - Refurbishing
Jenson's Piano Service
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#2047622 - 03/13/13 12:13 PM Re: Ideas for plate to pinblock marker compound [Re: David Jenson]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21663
Loc: Oakland
I have decided that chalk is difficult to see because the plate does not touch the block in most places. It could just be as little as three points. This is going to happen no matter what you use, although you may get a little clearer picture with a thicker compound, like rouge, which Mason & Hamlin used to use. But that is messy.

So I use chalk, in my case, Sidewalk Chalk from Crayola, find the high spots, and combine that with feeling the block rock on the plate.
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Semipro Tech

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#2047623 - 03/13/13 12:16 PM Re: Ideas for plate to pinblock marker compound [Re: David Jenson]
accordeur Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1207
Loc: Québec, Canada
I mix the chalk with water to make a paste.
_________________________
Jean Poulin

Musician, Tuner and Technician

www.actionpiano.ca

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#2047624 - 03/13/13 12:16 PM Re: Ideas for plate to pinblock marker compound [Re: David Jenson]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 2192
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
DAG, from the piano supply houses. It is a graphite in alcohol solution that you brush on the plate flange, let dry, and hammer the raw-cut block against to see the high spots on the wood which are now slightly black.

A .008" thick and very long feeler gauge also helps you poke around and see where the gaps are.
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In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible

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#2047798 - 03/13/13 06:18 PM Re: Ideas for plate to pinblock marker compound [Re: David Jenson]
Bill McKaig,RPT Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/16/11
Posts: 86
Loc: Tampa, FL
I use red chalk line chalk mixed with acetone. I brush it on and it dries in seconds. I can usually fit the block three or four times before adding more chalk.

When I'm done I wipe the flange with acetone to clean it off. Any excess chalk can transfer to the hammers ( guess how I found that out).
_________________________
Professional Piano Technician serving the Tampa bay area. website: mckaigpianoservice.com

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#2047843 - 03/13/13 07:42 PM Re: Ideas for plate to pinblock marker compound [Re: David Jenson]
kpembrook Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 1311
Loc: Michigan
Old fashioned wax shoe polish.

Carpenter's crayon.
_________________________
Keith Akins, RPT
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair

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#2048330 - 03/14/13 05:26 PM Re: Ideas for plate to pinblock marker compound [Re: David Jenson]
Phil D Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/10
Posts: 551
Loc: London, England
A thought: Would engineer's / machinist's blue be appropriate here? Or would it present the same problems.
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Phil Dickson
The Cycling Piano Tuner

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#2049551 - 03/17/13 08:38 AM Re: Ideas for plate to pinblock marker compound [Re: Phil D]
Chuck Behm Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 700
Loc: Boone, Iowa, USA
Interesting to see what others use for this. I've always used blue plumb chalk, in that it's soft and comes off thick on the plate. Chalk, grind off the high spots, rechalk, regrind over and over until block fits plate. If you haven't done this before and would like to see photos, check out Small Shop article on the topic. Have a good St. Pat's day all - Chuck
_________________________
Tuner/Technician/Rebuilder/Technical Writer
www.pianopromoproductions.com
515-212-9220

"The act of destruction is infinitely easier than the act of creation" - Arthur C. Clarke

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#2049563 - 03/17/13 09:30 AM Re: Ideas for plate to pinblock marker compound [Re: Chuck Behm]
Zeno Wood Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 451
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
I've always wondered if cow chalk would be suitable. If you try it, let me know!

http://www.livestockmarkers.com/
_________________________
Zeno Wood, Piano Technician
Brooklyn College

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#2049568 - 03/17/13 09:41 AM Re: Ideas for plate to pinblock marker compound [Re: David Jenson]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7887
Loc: France
The blue chalk (on the plate) and the graphite DAG (on the wood)are OK, seem to me (not always easy to see in any case)

The spray used in automotive work is some oily ink, not suiteable for wood.

BTW I use a DAG sold by Renner, one for the springs, one for the jacks/wood. In no mean similar to the "winslip" product. The liquid take some time to dry and is covering a lot. smell as synthetic lacquer.

I find references for DAG in case I want larger quantities (it is used in so many ways, as a lube but also as an electrical component.
The main problem is that there are too much references availeable, and I don't know what is the more adapted to my task.

The most important tool for plate/pinblock adjusting is the electrical hoist.
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2049580 - 03/17/13 10:14 AM Re: Ideas for plate to pinblock marker compound [Re: David Jenson]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4215
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada

Stove black.
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#2049637 - 03/17/13 12:12 PM Re: Ideas for plate to pinblock marker compound [Re: David Jenson]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7887
Loc: France
you make it yourself ?
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2049658 - 03/17/13 12:58 PM Re: Ideas for plate to pinblock marker compound [Re: David Jenson]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4215
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada

Hi Isaac,
Stove black can still be purchased here for casted or steel plate wood stoves like the Jotul or free standing fireplaces like the Franklin.
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#2049667 - 03/17/13 01:08 PM Re: Ideas for plate to pinblock marker compound [Re: David Jenson]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7887
Loc: France
Hi how is it used ? I believe that Stove black is that black greasy residue obtained with combustion .

if you where to make some by yourself is wood combustion OK ?
(using a metal plate above so to get the fumes)

I wonder if you are talking of cook made with wood combustion . This is more easy to find, but not as black

Just find the WIKI where it is said it is a pigment used to produce "china ink"

There are 3 kinds
one obtained with burning candles
one with burning oils
One burning woods that contain rosins

a metal plate above the fire.

I am not ready to obtain a good quantity with those processes, but I see how it can be more efficient than graphite, for instance


Edited by Olek (03/17/13 01:17 PM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2049669 - 03/17/13 01:10 PM Re: Ideas for plate to pinblock marker compound [Re: David Jenson]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4215
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada


Stove black is applied to the outer parts of the stove just like shoe polish is applied to the outer leather of the shoes.
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#2049673 - 03/17/13 01:18 PM Re: Ideas for plate to pinblock marker compound [Re: David Jenson]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7887
Loc: France
OK I got it, thanks Dan

I find some sold as a pigment. not very expensive.

The occasion to buy some de waxed white shellac


Edited by Olek (03/17/13 01:26 PM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2049697 - 03/17/13 01:49 PM Re: Ideas for plate to pinblock marker compound [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
kpembrook Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 1311
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: Silverwood Pianos

Stove black.


Yes, I have used that too. We are a woodstove area, as well.
_________________________
Keith Akins, RPT
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair

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#2050008 - 03/18/13 01:32 AM Re: Ideas for plate to pinblock marker compound [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
David Jenson Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 2139
Loc: Maine
Originally Posted By: Silverwood Pianos


Stove black is applied to the outer parts of the stove just like shoe polish is applied to the outer leather of the shoes.

'Gonna' try that on the next one. I had heard of that, and somehow lost the idea somewhere along the path to getting older and wiser. blush

I actually think I have a can of it somewhere. 'Great idea!
_________________________
David L. Jenson
Tuning - Repairs - Refurbishing
Jenson's Piano Service
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