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Topic Options
#2042889 - 03/04/13 02:29 PM an Ervin Nyiregyhazi composition
Michael Sayers Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1054
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
Hello Everyone,

This is a performance of an Ervin Nyiregyhazi composition from a year 2003 recital. I want to share it here for those not aware of his gorgeous and intense music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHlXop0n5_A


Mvh,
Michael


Edited by Michael Sayers (03/04/13 02:52 PM)

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#2043040 - 03/04/13 09:14 PM Re: an Ervin Nyiregyhazi composition [Re: Michael Sayers]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19742
Loc: New York
Well! grin

Do you really like what you're doing there? To me it sounds like a caricatured exaggeration of the bad things that are said about Nyiregyhazi's playing. Do you really want to be pounding the left hand like that, and pounding the accompaniment figures in the right hand like that? The whole piece is basically "Crash.....Crash.....crash crash crash....." -- isn't it?

I've been a bit of a fan of Nyiregyhazi ever since he came back to notice in the '70's and I still have the LP from then. I wanted to like this, but I can't say that I do. BTW I didn't know he composed. It's possible I might like this if it were done differently but I can't tell.

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#2043091 - 03/04/13 10:46 PM Re: an Ervin Nyiregyhazi composition [Re: Michael Sayers]
Tim Adrianson Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/10
Posts: 1052
Michael, have to agree with MarkC on this one -- it almost comes off as a parody of Nyireghazi's playing on some of the Liszt pieces. Ponderously slow, banging, totally charmless -- sorry, I was not in any way moved by his vision.

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#2043100 - 03/04/13 11:05 PM Re: an Ervin Nyiregyhazi composition [Re: Tim Adrianson]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19742
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Tim Adrianson
Michael, have to agree with MarkC on this one....

I won't ask exactly what you mean by "on this one." ha


(Psssst: I know it's coming from that other thread.)

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#2043173 - 03/05/13 03:17 AM Re: an Ervin Nyiregyhazi composition [Re: Mark_C]
Michael Sayers Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1054
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
Sustained maximum fortissimo I think is okay when the music is contoured for it. Much of Nyiregyhazi's music has extended passages marked ff and with deep bass chords that seem designed with that in mind.

I'll post one that is mostly pp-mf - though I think one of you will find the slowness of tempo a bit taxing!


Mvh,
Michael

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#2043333 - 03/05/13 11:48 AM Re: an Ervin Nyiregyhazi composition [Re: Michael Sayers]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19742
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Michael Sayers
Sustained maximum fortissimo I think is okay when the music is contoured for it....

Don't know what that means -- honestly.

What it comes down to is how it sounds -- and what we're saying is, this doesn't sound good. Maybe it's more the fault of the piece itself, rather than of your playing -- as I said, I can't tell. But if this piece is to have a chance, really it needs to be approached differently.

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#2043891 - 03/06/13 11:43 AM Re: an Ervin Nyiregyhazi composition [Re: Michael Sayers]
Numerian Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 1075
Nyiregyhazi's music, judging from this piece, seems to be reincarnated Liszt, adjusted to reflect Nyiregyhazi's love of deep bass chords. I can't really fault Mr. Sayer's playing, because I suspect the only person who can play Nyiregyhazi's music convincingly was Nyiregyhazi himself, unless by chance some equally neurotic, possessed, and other-worldly genius like Nyiregyhazi comes to the fore.

I found Nyiregyhazi's rediscovery disk, taped in a church in San Francisco, to be the most magnificent and understandable Liszt ever recorded. I agree that his style did not work as well for other composers, but in Liszt, it was the first time I could imagine what Liszt himself must have sounded like when playing all those tremolos, booming bass chords, arpeggios and scales up and down the keyboard, trills, and so on. In mere mortal hands, it sounds bombastic, loud, and trite, but Liszt must have gotten some type of sound out of the piano that no one else could achieve (not even Anton Rubinstein). Then along came Nyiregyhazi who managed to recreate that sound, and suddenly some of Liszt's strangest music made sense.

It is no fault of Michael Sayers that like the rest of us he can't produce that sound. I do give him credit for bringing Nyiregyhazi's compositions to our notice and I'd like to hear more.

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#2043894 - 03/06/13 11:49 AM Re: an Ervin Nyiregyhazi composition [Re: Michael Sayers]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19280
Loc: New York City
I cannot say that I like this Nyiregyhazi composition(or other compositions by him that I have heard). But I don't blame that at all Michael Sayer's performance, and I applaud him for making these little heard pieces available.

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#2044306 - 03/07/13 02:19 AM Re: an Ervin Nyiregyhazi composition [Re: pianoloverus]
Michael Sayers Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1054
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
There are flaws and impedances in the quality and effect of the playing not only of that Nyiregyhazi piece but with every recording I've ever put out because I have been a very lazy pianist who loathed practicing.

Things will be different going forward.

There is a recital in April at the nearby Handen's kyrka which will have Nyiregyhazi's The Realization Thus Gained - a 1936 composition of about 250 measures written when his music was quite different from the numerous, concentrated short pieces in the 1970s-80s.

And there will be a recital this summer that will begin with Nyiregyhazi's youthful Grande Sonate Heroique and end with the two Liszt legendes - everything will be recorded and made available.

This is that second recital's programme:

Ervin Nyiregyhazi - Grande Sonate Heroique

Claude Debussy - Images Book One
Reflets dans l'eau
Hommage a Rameau
Mouvement

Edvard Grieg - In de Halle des Bergkönigs

Moritz Moszkowski -Etude Op. 72 No. 6

Bill Evans - Waltz for Debby

Franz Liszt -
Funerailles
Ballade in B Minor
St. Francois d'Assise: La predication aux oiseaux
St. Francois de Paule marchant sur les flots

The reason for this new level of dedication to music is that I had a tremendous religious transformation experience in late October during which I became open to the Divine which has resulted in me being an entirely new person. This has been followed by intermittent time in the company of Liszt who wants me as a pianist to raise money to help persons in need. He dictates all recital programmes, structures and organizes the practice - and can provide any technical or other insight that is wanted. And I am going to work as hard as humanly possible to do this adequately.

I assure you this is not fantasy because all musical knowledge from him no matter how obscure or foreign to my personal knowledge of music invariably proves to be correct.

In addition there is a new inner force or energy not present or active before that has very noticeable physiological effects - an electric-like tingling sensation especially in the hands, and a very high pitch, and quite loud when the force is strong, non-stop ringing in the ears.

He doesn't seem to be adverse to private disclosures of what is happening, and I suspect he prefers all disclosure as it happens but I don't know if this is so because all communication with him is 100% focused on music or psychological effects (his presence though commanding is very fatherly and comforting).


Mvh,
Michael

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#2044318 - 03/07/13 02:54 AM Re: an Ervin Nyiregyhazi composition [Re: Michael Sayers]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19742
Loc: New York
I think I better let somebody else handle this.... smile

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#2045037 - 03/08/13 11:59 AM Re: an Ervin Nyiregyhazi composition [Re: Michael Sayers]
Michael Sayers Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1054
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
Hi Mark,

During an October experience with Liszt I was told about a Handel-Liszt Queen of Sheba March ("not Solomon" or "not Samson").

To my knowledge there isn't anything in the catalogue of Liszt works that can be said to match this description, and if a later experience with Liszt from December is accurate then this is an autograph score and needs to, and in fact will be, recovered.

Maybe someone here knows of a Liszt composition that could be said to match this transcription. Otherwise I'll continue to be inclined that the experience in December was accurate and the music only is in autograph state.


Mvh,
Michael

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#2045049 - 03/08/13 12:31 PM Re: an Ervin Nyiregyhazi composition [Re: Mark_C]
Hakki Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2480
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
I think I better let somebody else handle this.... smile


Why Mark?

Is it because you don't want to take place in this joke (or didn't like the joke) or is it because you consider the situation a serious one rather than a joke ?
_________________________
Put in one of IMO, I think, to me, for me... or similar to all sentences I post

http://www.youtube.com/user/hakkithepianist

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#2045121 - 03/08/13 03:15 PM Re: an Ervin Nyiregyhazi composition [Re: Michael Sayers]
Michael Sayers Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1054
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
Hi Hakki,

It is a serious situation and I am baffled by it as there are pianists and composers as far as the eye can see who are better equipped for these tasks than me.

Liszt says that the all-Liszt recitals in Stockholm are supposed to "get the attention of the entire city" and "wake everybody up". He says also that eventually I am supposed to compose a type of music no one has heard before.

I'll post recordings of the April 21 recital which seems to be a warm-up recital and is not overly demanding -

J.S. Bach - Prelude in E-flat Major, BWV 852
Debussy - Clair de Lune
Mozart - Fantasy and Fugue in C Major, K. 394
Schubert - Impromptu in G-flat Major, Op. 90 No. 3
Chopin - Nocturne in C Minor, Op. 48 No. 1
Sayers - Etude: Homage to Liszt
Nyiregyhazi - The Realization Thus Gained
Grieg - In de Halle des Bergkönigs
Liszt - Sancta Dorothea
Liszt - R.W. Venezia
Liszt - Sonetto 104 di Petrarca (first edition version)

In addition there will be an excerpt of Debussy's Prélude à l'après-midi d'un Faune in the morning. I would have chosen for that purpose to play my version of Cortot's Bach Arioso transcription but Liszt said to play the Debussy.


Mvh,
Michael

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#2045130 - 03/08/13 03:29 PM Re: an Ervin Nyiregyhazi composition [Re: Michael Sayers]
Hakki Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2480
Hmmm...I too think I better let somebody else handle this. smile
_________________________
Put in one of IMO, I think, to me, for me... or similar to all sentences I post

http://www.youtube.com/user/hakkithepianist

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#2045167 - 03/08/13 04:37 PM Re: an Ervin Nyiregyhazi composition [Re: Hakki]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19742
Loc: New York
It was clear to me there was no joke.

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#2045351 - 03/09/13 02:28 AM Re: an Ervin Nyiregyhazi composition [Re: Michael Sayers]
Michael Sayers Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1054
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
There was a prior supernatural experience involving music in 1998 while sight-reading the Bach E-flat Major Prelude in W.T.C. Book One. An external force took possession of my arms, hands and body with me as passive observer to witness this personal adaptation of the music - I don't know who or what it was, but it set me on the path of not adhering to the composers' scores and only using them as guides.

This is a recording of it a week later. I realize the playing could be improved (as with all my past recordings) - but for a recording by a natural pianist who simply walked in to do it, and who was not willing practice the piano except perhaps for a week before any performing, which could result in months or even a year and beyond without practice, I feel it is okay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Smd06FA306s


Liszt wants it played in the same adaptation as the opening work of the April 21 recital - this hopefully will result on that occasion in a much better rendition and recording.

Mvh,
Michael

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#2045356 - 03/09/13 02:38 AM Re: an Ervin Nyiregyhazi composition [Re: Michael Sayers]
beet31425 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3765
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Ummm... I think I better let somebody else handle this....


-J

(No, I'll handle it, at least this much: I actually don't doubt that this kind of performance is a profound experience for the OP. This is a great example of something I've been talking about with my teacher: how different the pianist's and the audience's experiences are.)
_________________________
Beethoven: op.109, 110, 111

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#2045409 - 03/09/13 08:40 AM Re: an Ervin Nyiregyhazi composition [Re: Michael Sayers]
Numerian Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 1075
You should check the Editio Musica Budapest, which is publishing all knowm Liszt compositions, to see if they have anything on your Queen of Sheba march.

I'm curious how long you believe these programs will be. I don't know all the pieces you will be playing, but will the programs tire you out, or perhaps your audience as well?

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#2045510 - 03/09/13 01:45 PM Re: an Ervin Nyiregyhazi composition [Re: Michael Sayers]
Michael Sayers Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1054
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
Fatigue on my side shouldn't be an issue - on the audience side I'm not so sure (maybe others can weigh in on this) but I trust Liszt's judgement.

About the duration I haven't worked out any estimates . . . venues like set time frames though so these need to be worked out. The April 21 programme is supposed to happen in a one hour slot.

This could be the longest one in duration out of the programmes received so far:

LISZT
Les Cloches de Geneve
Il Pensieroso
Bagatelle Sans Tonalite
Mephisto Waltz No. 1
Mephisto Waltz No. 4

MOZART
Sonata in C Minor

DEBUSSY
Reverie

HANDEL
Ombra Mai Fu

GRIEG
Sonata Op. 7

SHOSTAKOVICH
Preludes Op. 34

A. TCHEREPNIN
Preludes Op. 85

ERNEST BLOCH
Sonata

LISZT
Rhapsodie Espagnole


Mvh,
Michael

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#2047694 - 03/13/13 02:18 PM Re: an Ervin Nyiregyhazi composition [Re: Mark_C]
Old Man Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 777
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
I think I better let somebody else handle this.... smile

Why? Is this not your bailiwick? grin

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