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#2048020 - 03/14/13 02:41 AM Youtube videomaking / A new kind of video... your thoughts?
slpianoproject Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/08/12
Posts: 22
Loc: Qc, Canada
This is a long post but it may interest everyone on here making videos on youtube and looking for ways to improve and classical music lovers in general.

Hi everyone!

As a amateur pianist / hobbyist, i spend alot of time on youtube listening to other people's performances. Usually when i want to learn a new piece I go and listen to alot of recordings of it to get a feel for the piece.

One day I decided to create my very own youtube channel and record performances (like alot of you). Since youtube is a video website I had to make a video.... So i went with what a lot people do and stack some pictures on top of the music. At some point I changed it for the standard video of my hands playing on top of the music thing like most people do. Camera on a tripod for 5 minutes long. Concert pianists and amateurs, everyone does that. Why? I don't know the answer, its just that way.

As I was reviewing my channel's analytics (view stats, audience retention, etc...) I found that most people often don't get to the end of the video. This is actually normal : Let's say for example I post my video on facebook so my friends and family see it. Not everyone on there is a classical music fan. After 2 minutes of listening to classical music watching my hands playing its understandable that my audience gets bored. Another thing is being an amateur pianist, my performances are not on par with the concert pianists out there. On top of that, for every popular piano piece there is a TON of amateur videos of it. What I'm getting to is if the performance is average and the video is like every other video out there, why would someone look at my video from start to end if they don't know me in particular.

One day I come across a video from Yundi Li - La Campanella. Go look it up...its an AWESOME video. Actually its more like a music video you'ld see on TV. It was like a revelation to me. So i grabbed my DSLR camera, watched a couple tutorials on how to make a professional looking video and came up (as my first try) with that :

Link to video on youtube





Now this is where i need your feedback...



My thoughts :


To me, the advantages of that kind of video is i think it'll retain attention way better. If the listener wants to see whats next he has to listen to the music. On top of that, its more general public friendly. We hear classical music everywhere in films, TV ads, TV shows, etc.... Everyone likes it even though most of the time we prolly don't even realize its classical music playing in the background. By providing that kind of video I think we see more of what we're used to. Unlike us musicians, i feel in 2013 less and less people take time to grab their headphones, close their eyes and listen to classical music or music in general. By showing somewhat more entertaining images I think its easier to grab people's attention and make them actually enjoy the music.

What do YOU think about it?


P.S : I apologize in advance to those of you that may interpret this post as a request for attention and / or recognition. For sure I could use the extra views on my channels but its not the point of this post. I know a lot of people on here have youtube channels and make videos. We all play piano for ourselves but at times its fun to show our hard work to others. This post is about giving inspiration and advices to the pianists on here that want to improve their videos (if you consider this video an improvement over what you already do.)

Don't hesitate to ask questions about technical details (video making/editing, recording/mic placement etc...). While i'm not an expert i'll try to answer to the best of my knowledge!

Edit;typo



Edited by slpianoproject (03/14/13 03:03 AM)

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#2048024 - 03/14/13 03:20 AM Re: Youtube videomaking / A new kind of video... your thoughts? [Re: slpianoproject]
Recaredo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/04/11
Posts: 1091
Loc: Southeast of Spain
The thing I liked the best from your video was your playing, Slpianoproject, really good performance.
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#2048037 - 03/14/13 04:32 AM Re: Youtube videomaking / A new kind of video... your thoughts? [Re: slpianoproject]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 2107
Loc: Rocky Mountains
I like your video.
I fear however. Most of the posting people do here are simply for criticism. They don't have the time to try to produce a nice video.
I may try this one day. Something that I think is real art. Much meaning. Adding interesting video to it.
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#2048038 - 03/14/13 04:42 AM Re: Youtube videomaking / A new kind of video... your thoughts? [Re: slpianoproject]
Nikolas Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5300
Loc: Europe
I also had this idea... Of course I didn't have the means to do an elaborate video like what you (or even more Yundi Li) did, but none the less I do think that youtube is for video and pasting photos there is not much fun...

Here's the results of my own video making (the latest): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsdvCIwmJLQ&list=PLEBuE5OWhpWK6VdF9hNqiIGxZBi78_7ar

It's just two cameras and live playing, but I hope I made it interesting enough (for music lovers anyhow)...

I do have other ideas and a couple of actors lined up, so we'll see how this fairs later on this year! wink
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#2048039 - 03/14/13 04:47 AM Re: Youtube videomaking / A new kind of video... your thoughts? [Re: slpianoproject]
Euan Morrison Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 1588
Loc: Edinburgh
(The Yundi Li video is the one with the attractive lady in the appartment opposite to his, right?) smile

slpianoproject - I *really* enjoyed your playing, and the video was very well produced. I agree with you that it would probably hold the attention of non-classical fans longer than a 'standard' sort of youtube clip.

But I also think you would be able to hold the attention of a classical fan with the standard 'hands-only' shot, as your playing was flawless and with a great sound from the instrument.

Very well done, and look forward to seeing / hearing more productions from you!


Edited by Euan Morrison (03/14/13 04:49 AM)

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#2048122 - 03/14/13 10:15 AM Re: Youtube videomaking / A new kind of video... your thoughts? [Re: slpianoproject]
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4380
Loc: Jersey Shore
I enjoyed both the music and the video work. Well done. Mixing the playing with other real life stuff works well.


I have a thread regarding this kind of stuff here:

Video Music Production

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#2048138 - 03/14/13 10:56 AM Re: Youtube videomaking / A new kind of video... your thoughts? [Re: slpianoproject]
CarlosCC Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/06/09
Posts: 1375
Loc: Lisbon, Portugal
It depends on the audience:
If the audiences are family or friends (which are only common "listeners"), then a video like this can catch their attention for more time. On the other side, if the audience has some knowledge of music, then I think you have to put the focus on the playing. I'm in the 2nd group.
Good job!
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#2048162 - 03/14/13 11:39 AM Re: Youtube videomaking / A new kind of video... your thoughts? [Re: slpianoproject]
TheodorN Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1202
Loc: Helsingborg, Sweden
Agree with what has been said here, I want people to watch my hands playing, therefore I film my hands playing. I want comments on how I'm using my hands, correctly or incorrectly. On the other hand this video was good, as well as the playing.
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#2048266 - 03/14/13 03:25 PM Re: Youtube videomaking / A new kind of video... your thoughts? [Re: Nikolas]
slpianoproject Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/08/12
Posts: 22
Loc: Qc, Canada
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
I also had this idea... Of course I didn't have the means to do an elaborate video like what you (or even more Yundi Li) did, but none the less I do think that youtube is for video and pasting photos there is not much fun...

Here's the results of my own video making (the latest): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsdvCIwmJLQ&list=PLEBuE5OWhpWK6VdF9hNqiIGxZBi78_7ar

It's just two cameras and live playing, but I hope I made it interesting enough (for music lovers anyhow)...

I do have other ideas and a couple of actors lined up, so we'll see how this fairs later on this year! wink


I like it! Adding zooms and switching cameras adds a more interesting touch to the video. I also like when you put the sheet music near the end. Quite a nice composition too! Are you still working on movements 1 and 4 (the video i mean)?


Originally Posted By: Pianotehead
Agree with what has been said here, I want people to watch my hands playing, therefore I film my hands playing. I want comments on how I'm using my hands, correctly or incorrectly. On the other hand this video was good, as well as the playing


I'm glad you liked the video smile . For sure if you are looking for advices on how to improve your playing / hand position, filming your hands is the way to go. On the other hand, if you sport some extremely impressive piano skills, you want to show off how great your technique is. But for everything in between... Lets say a pianist uploads Chopin's Nocturne Op.9 no.1. There is good chances this pianist knows how to use his hands properly but there is nothing in this piece worth showing off on the technical side if you see what i'm getting to.


Originally Posted By: Euan Morrison
(The Yundi Li video is the one with the attractive lady in the appartment opposite to his, right?) smile

slpianoproject - I *really* enjoyed your playing, and the video was very well produced. I agree with you that it would probably hold the attention of non-classical fans longer than a 'standard' sort of youtube clip.

But I also think you would be able to hold the attention of a classical fan with the standard 'hands-only' shot, as your playing was flawless and with a great sound from the instrument.

Very well done, and look forward to seeing / hearing more productions from you!


Yes! Its exactly that video i'm talking about! Thanks for the very encouraging comments. Not all my performances are that "flawless" tho. I had to choose an easy piece because I wanted to make the video and I had nothing "performance ready". I actually learned it like 2 days before and taped the sheet music on my piano for the recording because i couldn't play it by heart lol (the front panel was removed for better sound... I had to actually tape it up there!). Thanks again for liking laugh

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#2048279 - 03/14/13 03:47 PM Re: Youtube videomaking / A new kind of video... your thoughts? [Re: slpianoproject]
Briguy65 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 285
Loc: So California
I think however anyone wants to put their video on Youtube is up to them. And how they do it is also up to interpretation. If I looked at your video like a music video -- which sounded great - the song always gives some sort of emotion, in this case for me loneliness. I would have just concentrated on the dog, as he seemed to have that lonely act down pat.

If you were showing off your piano skill having your hands as the subject works fine as well.

I'm not criticizing your video -- it's not bad and it does a lot of things, just maybe concentrate on one would make it more to my liking, but it's definitely good e nough already.

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#2048285 - 03/14/13 03:54 PM Re: Youtube videomaking / A new kind of video... your thoughts? [Re: slpianoproject]
TheodorN Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1202
Loc: Helsingborg, Sweden
Originally Posted By: slpianoproject
On the other hand, if you sport some extremely impressive piano skills, you want to show off how great your technique is.

Even if I had such skills, which I don't, I wouldn't just make videos to show them off. I'm not that kind of person. Except maybe, if I was looking for a job playing in a four star restaurant...

Quote:

Lets say a pianist uploads Chopin's Nocturne Op.9 no.1. There is good chances this pianist knows how to use his hands properly but there is nothing in this piece worth showing off on the technical side if you see what i'm getting to.

Absolutely, that man would be making a video with a different purpose in mind and consequently a different kind of video. There may be some people in the AB forum, who are confident of their playing and just want to share their talents, but unfortunately I don't belong to that group.

If I speak only for myself, I just want help to analyze my playing. I might add, that there's another purpose for filming my hands, one that I just recently discovered, as a bonus.

People were talking about the harmonies and the chord voicing in the arrangement of my last submission. By filming the keyboard, people can see the chords chosen.

That is not possible when the video is showing something else than the playing hands, or when submitting only an audio recording. Except for those with a very good musical ear.
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#2048296 - 03/14/13 04:13 PM Re: Youtube videomaking / A new kind of video... your thoughts? [Re: TheodorN]
slpianoproject Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/08/12
Posts: 22
Loc: Qc, Canada
Originally Posted By: Pianotehead
Originally Posted By: slpianoproject
On the other hand, if you sport some extremely impressive piano skills, you want to show off how great your technique is.

Even if I had such skills, which I don't, I wouldn't just make videos to show them off. I'm not that kind of person. Except maybe, if I was looking for a job playing in a four star restaurant...


I'm talking more about a concert hall type of pianist like this. Pretty entertaining to watch if you ask me...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVjTdMCi6tM

Originally Posted By: Pianotehead
Quote:

Lets say a pianist uploads Chopin's Nocturne Op.9 no.1. There is good chances this pianist knows how to use his hands properly but there is nothing in this piece worth showing off on the technical side if you see what i'm getting to.

Absolutely, that man would be making a video with a different purpose in mind and consequently a different kind of video. There may be some people in the AB forum, who are confident of their playing and just want to share their talents, but unfortunately I don't belong to that group.

If I speak only for myself, I just want help to analyze my playing. I might add, that there's another purpose for filming my hands, one that I just recently discovered, as a bonus.

People were talking about the harmonies and the chord voicing in the arrangement of my last submission. By filming the keyboard, people can see the chords chosen.

That is not possible when the video is showing something else than the playing hands, or when submitting only an audio recording. Except for those with a very good musical ear.


Don't get me wrong I totally agree with you hands filming has its purpose (as i've done it myself and will prolly do it again...). This chord voicing fact is one i'ld never have thought of since I only play classical...

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#2048399 - 03/14/13 08:08 PM Re: Youtube videomaking / A new kind of video... your thoughts? [Re: slpianoproject]
Amaruk Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/02/11
Posts: 805
Loc: New England, USA
Slpianoproject,

I completely understand your reasoning. But as has been said here, there is nothing wrong with doing videos one way or another; it's just a matter of taste.

I really liked your playing and I think your video turned out just great! What lens did you use in this video by the way? I happen to have the exact same camera and I love it.

As Mark pointed out above, his thread on video production would be a perfect place for you to share details on your work with video related things as you pulled this off really well.

Thanks for sharing!
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#2048488 - 03/15/13 01:08 AM Re: Youtube videomaking / A new kind of video... your thoughts? [Re: Amaruk]
slpianoproject Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/08/12
Posts: 22
Loc: Qc, Canada
Originally Posted By: Amaruk
Slpianoproject,

I completely understand your reasoning. But as has been said here, there is nothing wrong with doing videos one way or another; it's just a matter of taste.

I really liked your playing and I think your video turned out just great! What lens did you use in this video by the way? I happen to have the exact same camera and I love it.

As Mark pointed out above, his thread on video production would be a perfect place for you to share details on your work with video related things as you pulled this off really well.

Thanks for sharing!


I made a very detailed post in the Audio/video thread about how to record your piano using standalone mics. Hopefully you find it useful.

And to answer your question i used the cheapo 50mm f1.8 lens from Sony wich gives that sexy shallow depth of field. It sells for around 100$ here and i really think its a must have for taking pictures and making video. Its a prime lens meaning it has no zoom but you know... you can always step back or move forward a little. That f1.8 makes all the difference for good bokeh and low light situations.

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#2048733 - 03/15/13 02:48 PM Re: Youtube videomaking / A new kind of video... your thoughts? [Re: slpianoproject]
Brian Lucas Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 979
Well, I got to the end, so I suppose that says something to your experiment. Love the song (and the performance) so that's part of it.

As far as a videomaker, I think you included a little bit of everything. Not only could we see your hands, but you answered a lot of the (how did you record that?) kind of questions. And adding an animal to a video always makes it more enjoyable.

I think if you want a better sense of whether this style is more successful, other than looking at your stats, post on a non-musical forum and see what they say. I think your main point is that non-fans of the music will jump the moment they get bored. In that case, making the video interesting would definitely hold their attention.

Great job on the music! And amazing job on the video for your first try!
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#2048758 - 03/15/13 03:20 PM Re: Youtube videomaking / A new kind of video... your thoughts? [Re: slpianoproject]
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4380
Loc: Jersey Shore
I agree Brian...I'm very impressed with the sound quality and the video production.

As for the boredom part, I find this to be much better that straight playing only. He has the high quality playing throughout and gives us a kind of recording tutorial at the same time.

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#2048765 - 03/15/13 03:26 PM Re: Youtube videomaking / A new kind of video... your thoughts? [Re: slpianoproject]
JimF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/08/09
Posts: 1736
Loc: south florida
slpianoproject

I liked the playing and thought the video was entertaining, although I still wouldn't watch it to the end unless I wanted to hear the playing, regardless of video.

Not really your topic, but one statement you made interested me because I've never really understood what youtube channel people are after:

Quote:
For sure I could use the extra views on my channels


Why do you (and others) need extra views? Please excuse my ignorance if this should be obvious, but it is not to me.
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#2048936 - 03/16/13 12:05 AM Re: Youtube videomaking / A new kind of video... your thoughts? [Re: slpianoproject]
packa Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/05
Posts: 1397
Loc: Dallas, TX
I enjoyed the performance and thought the video approach was creative and well executed. But I do have some comments. In order to include video elements beyond a simple depiction of the performance (i.e. "filming your hands"), you must have a concept or program to guide the video structure. In some sense, it's no longer simply a musical performance. It's a film that includes images, motion, even some narrative elements along with a musical accompaniment, and it demands (or at least suggests) that the viewer construct a meaning for the music in the context of the visual flow.

Now, there is nothing wrong with any of this. I love films, live music, recorded music, staged opera, and any number of other combinations of aural and visual art. But I think all of these are different expressive media, and each one has its own individual aesthetic. That's why I don't watch anything when I want to really listen to music and explore what the pure aural experience means to me. I believe in audio recording (or live performance if possible) when you have something mostly musical to say and video recording when you have something cinematic to say.

Just MHO.
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