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Not a frightfully new subject but I was thinking this morning about why Piano buyers quite often want to ask their Piano teacher which piano they should buy and came up with the following;

What should I ask my Piano teacher?
Your Piano teacher is a well-qualified, professional person who is trained to teach you or your child the necessary skills to play and enjoy the piano.In most cases,although not all,it is unreasonable and unfair to ask them technical information about a particular piano or information regarding the differences between pianos when their qualifications are as an educator and not as a Technician.Teachers are often put on the spot and feel obliged to provide information.If you were buying a car then you would ask a motor mechanic to inspect the vehicle for you rather than ask your driving instructor.Should you want some independent advice,we recommend that you contact a piano tuner.We welcome any inspections from qualified technicians.


Am I asking for trouble if I I make this polite suggestion to people?

I think your general suggestion is correct. Piano instructors can be useful to evaluate present musical utility though.

I think the problems really begin when teachers get commissions or other compensation from piano retailers and do not disclose this to their students-or in some cases institutions they work for. These are conflicts of interest that can even be construed as fraud in some cases.

I believe that if you have achieved a certain level in piano playing, asking your teacher makes sense. After all, he/she knows how you play, what you like to play, and your technique with its strenghts and weaknesses.

So a piano teacher could recommend what characteristics a piano should have in order to meet your skills. Light vs. heavy action, bigger sound or wide dynamic range... Whether the teacher then should name a few brands as examples, I don't know. But I guess that if I was in that position (taking lessons and thinking of buying a piano), I'd ask the teacher for examples.

Without a doubt, some of the worst maintained instruments I have ever worked on have belonged to piano teachers, so I don't know how trustworthy they can be in guiding you to an optimal instrument. I think the ideal situation for a buyer is to find a great technician, who is also a very good pianist, and is independent of any dealer affiliation. He/she would be able to see the potential in any instrument, or lack thereof, and speak to you in terms you can relate to regarding the tone and "playability".

Greetings,
Yes, I agree. I think that asking your piano teacher about instruments is like asking your piano technician to show you how to play....
Piano teachers have FAR more credibility than they deserve when it comes to selecting pianos, and quite often,they have arrangements with stores in which they trade referrals. They are accustomed to being an authority, though I have never met a piano teacher that knew much of anything about how the piano works.
Regards,

It also depends on whether or not the teacher has any interest or knowledge of the piano market. Some couldn't care less about makes and models whereas others try to keep up to date with what is available.

I have students who went out and bought pianos without asking my opinion and to be honest I think I could have found them a better instrument or at least a better deal. I do of course point out that I am not a qualified piano technician and so can't guarantee that a used piano has no problems but I do know when a piano sounds good and feels good to play. Many people who buy pianos for their kids to learn on are completely clueless in this respect.

Other than Chris H's statement, this all seems to be focused on used instruments, when hiring a tech is in order. Often a teacher is not asked for a technical evaluation, but a general question of "what are good pianos to look for?" This sort of general question can be very helpful to the buyer. The answer, "I have always found that So&So and Such&Such are very good" doesn't cross any boundries.

A commission from a dealership is not unethical, at all. If the buyer happens to purchase a Such&Such or So&So, and was from the recommendation of the teacher, a commission for the referal is in order.

Teachers do not receive kick-backs as a major part of their income. It is more like a token "thank you" dinner for two, a couple of times a year.

If the teachers discloses that to the student then I agree. If not then to me its unethical.

I never get any kick backs but I do recommend dealers who have provided great service to my students in the past as well as advising people to steer clear of those who I've had problems with. Not that there are that many piano dealers near me!

If someone asks me to go and look at a used piano with them I explain it's a bit like test driving a car. From playing I can tell a few basic but useful things. Does everything work? Is it in tune? Is the touch even? Any worrying buzzes or rattles? They can listen to me play and decide if they like the sound of the piano or not. I think this is worthwhile, especially for those who don't play themselves. For a more detailed inspection they should have it checked out by a tech.

I just bought a piano and asked my piano teacher to play it and give me his opinion. Of course I didn't ask him for his opinion on the condition of the piano or anything technical...that is what the piano technicians are for. I did, however, ask him how he liked the tone and touch...that was something he is certainly an expert on.

For me, it was a big purchase and it helped a lot to have some more confidence in the decision once my teacher gave the thumbs up. I trust his opinion a lot so if he didn't like it, it would have been a deal breaker.

Now that said...we probably have similar tastes in pianos but if we didn't he could still assess if it were a quality instrument. (For example, it might be a great piano but the teacher might like a brighter tone and the student might like a warmer tone or something personal/ subjective like that.)

There is nothing wrong with getting some assistance when buying a piano, new or used. It is a big decision and a big expense, usually.

I will say that when I sold my Petrof 46” studio a couple of years ago, the perspective buyer, their piano teacher and the piano tech who did the inspection (who said the piano was in like-new, hardly played condition) ganged up on me to lower my price. I honestly didn’t like the tag-teaming and the three against one, but I conceeded and lowered my price $500. In the end, I was still contented, but my feelings were hurt…

Oh well, such is life.

Rick

In the past Sherman/Clay and other dealers in the Seattle area have paid 1.5%. On a $50K piano that is not a pittance.

I've always thought the practice discreditable no matter what you call it; commission, promotional fee, finder's fee, etc. If the dealer has sufficient margin to reduce his profit by n amount, that "discount" should go to the buyer.

Kurt

Having a technician inspect a new piano is also a good idea. Especially if it is an expensive one. Especially if the technician is highly skilled in tone-regulation and can judge whether the tone will play into total brilliance. Some new pianos have hammers with felt so dense and full of reinforcing treatments that they cannot be voiced to play softly without removing the ability to play loud. I am talking about hammers that cannot be softened by dilute water and/or needles.

Some new pianos can have the V-bar heat treated so hard that the piano will break strings in a few years of hard playing, and the tone in the treble is full of harsh ringing. Some new pianos have the action centers so spongy that a couple of hundred vigorous playing hours will result in an action as loose as a 100 year old piano. All these things affect the true value of the piano and only a technician who is knowledgable and experienced in all these areas can evaluate the true value. Understanding what a piano may sell for is not the same as determining the musical utility.

"...A commission from a dealership is not unethical, at all. If the buyer happens to purchase a Such&Such or So&So, and was from the recommendation of the teacher, a commission for the referal is in order..."

Who's your daddy? A concealed financial interest puts a lot of torque on this situation. It is not so different than taking advice from a tech who is employed by the seller. The buyer should employ, and pay for, his own advisors with no hidden agendas in play. This is why some more ethical sellers will have nothing to do with this practice.

Piano buyers need to sit down in a family meeting with whom-ever the piano teacher is and set guidelines to follow for the purchase.

I have seen many a piano teacher who has some six figure Steinway or other high dollar brand in their home seemingly overspend the buyers budget 20 times over.

The entitlement or whatever the issue is bleeds over to impovershed families trying to obtain the best instrument for the family in a budget and since the economy tanked the days of people taking on high risk piano loans at 39% are long gone.

At some point someone needs to realize that not everyone out there is going to buy what the piano teacher has. I could write a novel on piano teachers trying to overspend other peoples money. ( I am here all week for book signings)

I have never had any issues with techs and teachers coming together to check things out but what I have learned about techs is to make sure they have a business license and see /put my hands on a copy of their insurance info before they touch a thing. We had a tech come inspect a high dollar grand piano a couple years ago, pulled the action then dropped it upside down and then lost balance and fell on it. Un-insured and no BL.

Brand loyalty is fine if both parties can afford the outcome of that but some take it too far.

Nashville,
Sorry you had a "Bad Tech Day". (Did I just invent a new movie title?) It would seem to me that your own insurance would cover this mishap and they would then seek restitution from the Tech at fault.

Of course we might have done that but the " Tech" vanished out the front door, we did however send the video clip from the RODAC camera above the showroom to the dealer he was subbed out to and they took care of it.

I'm sure you have encountered this and I have also heard stories of teachers who insist on nothing but a grand piano for home practice. But they must be in the minority (hopefully)? Piano teaching doesn't really provide the sort of income to buy a six figure Steinway. I have a Yamaha U1 which I bought second hand. A grand would be nice and I hope to buy one at some point but it will be a big stretch financially for me.

Having said that I do often try to inflate their budget 20 times but that's only because they think they can buy a good piano for 50 quid.

Not sure about the whole kick back thing. It's really not that often that students buy pianos and when they do they are usually on a tight budget. I would rather see them get a good instrument at a good price than receive any form of compensation from a dealer. Surely most teachers would want the same?

Interesting story… ouch!

This is indirectly related but related in theory… I bought a brand new Chevy pick-up truck several years ago; I decided I wanted a plastic bed liner to go in the pick-up bed. Went to the local Leer truck accessories store to get the bed liner installed… brand new truck, invoice sticker still on the window and dealer tag still on the vehicle. The tech had a difficult time getting a screw in the bed liner so his assistant sticks his knee in the side of the truck bed to try and stretch the bed liner so the screw would fasten. He stretched the bed liner alright but put a big dent in the side of my brand new truck in the process.

The Leer Truck Accessory dealer paid to have the dent repaired, but the ordeal tarnished the joy of buying and owning a brand new vehicle.

Moral of the story? There are non-thinking, low IQ individuals in every field of service. (Sorry for the vent... that is one experience I'd like to forget.)

Now back to our regularly scheduled program…

Rick