Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#2048215 - 03/14/13 01:56 PM Bach WTC Book 1 C major Prelude - 3 Mystery Chords?
VJ. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/05/07
Posts: 91
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Can someone tell me how the chords in the measures 22, 23 & 28 fit functionally in the piece? I see that they are variant of some Augmented Sixth Chords.

If so, why 2 augmented sixth chords in succession in measures 22 & 23?

Please help.

Ref: http://www.gmajormusictheory.org/Freebies/Classics/WTCPrelu.pdf

Thanks much,

VJ

Top
(ads P/S)

Sauter Pianos

#2048240 - 03/14/13 02:42 PM Re: Bach WTC Book 1 C major Prelude - 3 Mystery Chords? [Re: VJ.]
PianoStudent88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3161
Loc: Maine
I don't see any augmented sixth chords.

M.22: F#dim
M.23: Bdim (add C: I'm never quite what to call the C functionally here; perhaps in some sense a suspension from the previous measure. But I like the effect)
M.24: F#dim over a G pedal note

How are you naming these chords?
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

Top
#2048244 - 03/14/13 02:49 PM Re: Bach WTC Book 1 C major Prelude - 3 Mystery Chords? [Re: PianoStudent88]
VJ. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/05/07
Posts: 91
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Thanks... I was thinking the same progression as you F#dim and B dim (I thought C as more of as passing note).

But please can you tell me how the progression F, F# dim, B dim, G works?

2 diminished chords next to each other. I don't see the secondary functionality.

Again thanks for your response.

(I started to branch to augmented sixth when this progression didn't make sense to me. Looks like I am very wrong there).

Top
#2048253 - 03/14/13 03:00 PM Re: Bach WTC Book 1 C major Prelude - 3 Mystery Chords? [Re: VJ.]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1337
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
a diminished chord is a incomplete dominant chord

F#dim = D7 third in bass

B dim = G7 third in bass
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

Top
#2048260 - 03/14/13 03:11 PM Re: Bach WTC Book 1 C major Prelude - 3 Mystery Chords? [Re: chrisbell]
VJ. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/05/07
Posts: 91
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Thanks so much, Chris. Now the whole piece makes sense to me. Piston's Harmony book has a complete chapter dedicated to it. Its time for me to read some of Piston too.

VJ


Edited by VJ. (03/14/13 03:28 PM)

Top
#2048556 - 03/15/13 05:10 AM Re: Bach WTC Book 1 C major Prelude - 3 Mystery Chords? [Re: VJ.]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2333
Loc: UK
That sheet has pedal markings. It's OT, but I think the topic is now answered, so I am surprised as I have read elsewhere not to pedal Bach. I never pedal this Prelude but do hold the LH notes, and legato the RH notes. What do the experts say?

Top
#2048605 - 03/15/13 07:43 AM Re: Bach WTC Book 1 C major Prelude - 3 Mystery Chords? [Re: spanishbuddha]
Andy Platt Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2380
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: spanishbuddha
That sheet has pedal markings. It's OT, but I think the topic is now answered, so I am surprised as I have read elsewhere not to pedal Bach. I never pedal this Prelude but do hold the LH notes, and legato the RH notes. What do the experts say?


There is the entire canon of Baroque music plus this prelude to consider. Hmm, exaggerating a bit but I think this piece causes big problems because it sounds crazily beautiful with the pedal but Bach had no instruments that had a pedal so it could never have been played that way. Of course, to take that further, this was fully romanticized by Gounod in his Ave Maria.

This was one of the first pieces I studied when taking lessons; but it wasn't my usual teacher I studied this with (summer lessons - take your pick.) Anyway, what he said was - you can play it like "that" (pedaled) but I won't let you move on until you can also play it in a more baroque (no pedal) style. And then he played me Glenn Gould's version - which he said I would probably hate - as reference.

So, there you go. Play around with it but a more authentic performance is almost certainly quite fast and much less legato.
_________________________
  • Liszt - Liebesträume No. 3, S541
  • Scarlatti - Sonata in D minor, K. 213

Kawai K3

Top

Moderator:  BB Player, casinitaly 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
71 registered (Abby Pianoman, allakart, 36251, aesop, ando, 17 invisible), 1132 Guests and 17 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75898 Members
42 Forums
156857 Topics
2304776 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Tuning my piano with an app
by johan d
08/22/14 03:14 AM
Tuning a piano
by johan d
08/22/14 02:14 AM
Yamaha CLP-430 or Roland RP-401?
by masterboy
08/22/14 01:22 AM
NY Steinway in Russia
by victor kam
08/22/14 12:38 AM
DAMPP CHASER
by tksler
08/22/14 12:05 AM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission