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#2056062 - 03/29/13 07:26 AM Re: Poll (sort of): Will the 'acoustic piano' become a relic? [Re: theJourney]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19640
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Now, if we could only have a pianoforte grand piano which was built for its musical qualities rather than an arms race of volume production and auditorium-filling...
This is a gross exaggeration I think. I have a 7' Mason BB in a 12'x18' room with no loudness problem. I also think all the top rated pianos sound glorious(highly musical)as long as one buys a size appropriate for the space it will be used. To characterize them as not built for their musical qualities is IMO incorrect.

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#2056091 - 03/29/13 08:55 AM Re: Poll (sort of): Will the 'acoustic piano' become a relic? [Re: pianoloverus]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Now, if we could only have a pianoforte grand piano which was built for its musical qualities rather than an arms race of volume production and auditorium-filling...
This is a gross exaggeration I think. I have a 7' Mason BB in a 12'x18' room with no loudness problem. I also think all the top rated pianos sound glorious(highly musical)as long as one buys a size appropriate for the space it will be used. To characterize them as not built for their musical qualities is IMO incorrect.


The musical qualities of most > 6' acoustic grands being built today are within the assumed context and competitive marketing imperative of a wannabee Steinway instrument possessing the capabilities to fill a concert hall or auditorium.

What is the construction year of your Mason BB? Pre-1985 by any chance?

That the player may not find them (too) loud does not mean that the listener might not -- and certainly says nothing about the neighbors. In Amsterdam, many pianos are (attempted to) be(ing) used in poorly insulated multi-family buildings that were built in the 16th, 17th & 18th centuries when pianos were not so loud while neighbors were much more tolerant and even appreciative of free piano music.

Modern grand pianos played forte can routinely produce sound levels that are in excess of 100 dB(A). Noise induced hearing loss is already suffered from sounds in excess of 85 dB(A) over extended periods of time consistent with normal piano practice.

The reason you might not think your BB is (too) loud may be because of your partial deafness. shocked

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#2056109 - 03/29/13 09:33 AM Re: Poll (sort of): Will the 'acoustic piano' become a relic? [Re: theJourney]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19640
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: theJourney
The musical qualities of most > 6' acoustic grands being built today are within the assumed context and competitive marketing imperative of a wannabee Steinway instrument possessing the capabilities to fill a concert hall or auditorium.

What is the construction year of your Mason BB? Pre-1985 by any chance?

That the player may not find them (too) loud does not mean that the listener might not -- and certainly says nothing about the neighbors. In Amsterdam, many pianos are (attempted to) be(ing) used in poorly insulated multi-family buildings that were built in the 16th, 17th & 18th centuries when pianos were not so loud while neighbors were much more tolerant and even appreciative of free piano music.

Modern grand pianos played forte can routinely produce sound levels that are in excess of 100 dB(A). Noise induced hearing loss is already suffered from sounds in excess of 85 dB(A) over extended periods of time consistent with normal piano practice.

The reason you might not think your BB is (too) loud may be because of your partial deafness. shocked
My hearing has been tested and is excellent despite many decades of playing. My BB is from around 2006. It's generally agreed that larger pianos can be played just as softly and perhaps softer than smaller ones in part due to their longer keys.

Neighbors can always be a problem but this isn't just a question of being too loud but often more the idea that one has to listen to someone practice at all which can be unpleasant at any volume especially if the person is repeating the same thing over and over. I got only my second complaint from a neighbor in 25 years about a week ago, but that was mostly due to playing the very loud and raucous Swanee River Boogie over and over for three weeks.

One person's forte is not necessarily the same as another person's forte so statements about forte playing inducing deafness don't have much validity IMO. I think it goes without saying that when a person plays forte in their home they are playing at a lower dynamic level than forte in a larger space.

If most pianos were really too loud then this problem would get far more notice then it does, word would have gotten out a long time ago, and soon it would drastically effect piano sales. Although there certainly have been some PW threads expressing concerns about a home piano being too loud, I think the percentage of people with this problem is relatively small since we tend to hear mostly from those with this problem and not people who don't have the problem.


Edited by pianoloverus (03/29/13 09:33 AM)

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#2056266 - 03/29/13 02:03 PM Re: Poll (sort of): Will the 'acoustic piano' become a relic? [Re: patH]
ClsscLib Offline

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1834
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
Originally Posted By: patH

...When I mentioned digital pianos as first choice for piano players without serious pianistic ambitions, I was thinking of digital pianos with a mediocre action, but with lots of gimmicks like different sounds, drum machines etc.. Something like Casio would make; or possibly several product ranges of Yamaha and Roland. I don't think a (semi-)professional pianist would consider these instruments as serious instruments for practise.


I'm guessing you haven't played any of the most recent Casio DPs. They aren't toys by any means. To the contrary, many here consider their action competitive with digital instruments costing a lot more than the Casios.
_________________________


"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

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#2056289 - 03/29/13 02:36 PM Re: Poll (sort of): Will the 'acoustic piano' become a relic? [Re: ClsscLib]
patH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/09/13
Posts: 601
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: ClsscLib
I'm guessing you haven't played any of the most recent Casio DPs. They aren't toys by any means. To the contrary, many here consider their action competitive with digital instruments costing a lot more than the Casios.

You're right; I haven't played a recent Casio. But I've bought a Privia a few years ago; and when my Clavinova had a sticking key, I used the Privia as practise instrument. Bad idea.

Maybe other Casios are better. If they are, then please accept my apologies.
_________________________
Everything is possible, and nothing is sure.
XXXI

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#2056551 - 03/29/13 10:31 PM Re: Poll (sort of): Will the 'acoustic piano' become a relic? [Re: theJourney]
Mwm Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 752
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Now, if we could only have a pianoforte grand piano which was built for its musical qualities rather than an arms race of volume production and auditorium-filling...
This is a gross exaggeration I think. I have a 7' Mason BB in a 12'x18' room with no loudness problem. I also think all the top rated pianos sound glorious(highly musical)as long as one buys a size appropriate for the space it will be used. To characterize them as not built for their musical qualities is IMO incorrect.


The musical qualities of most > 6' acoustic grands being built today are within the assumed context and competitive marketing imperative of a wannabee Steinway instrument possessing the capabilities to fill a concert hall or auditorium.

What is the construction year of your Mason BB? Pre-1985 by any chance?

That the player may not find them (too) loud does not mean that the listener might not -- and certainly says nothing about the neighbors. In Amsterdam, many pianos are (attempted to) be(ing) used in poorly insulated multi-family buildings that were built in the 16th, 17th & 18th centuries when pianos were not so loud while neighbors were much more tolerant and even appreciative of free piano music.

Modern grand pianos played forte can routinely produce sound levels that are in excess of 100 dB(A). Noise induced hearing loss is already suffered from sounds in excess of 85 dB(A) over extended periods of time consistent with normal piano practice.

The reason you might not think your BB is (too) loud may be because of your partial deafness. shocked


I own a 2009 M&H BB and play it in an 18x18x8 foot room. My wife, a singer and pianist, my pianist friends and I can sit in the room while we take turns playing and find the volume level to be just fine. You can play ppp, and you can play fff. The fff playing is probably in excess pf 110 dB on the A weighted scale, so one does not use that level very often - about as often as the composer suggests.

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#2056661 - 03/30/13 03:46 AM Re: Poll (sort of): Will the 'acoustic piano' become a relic? [Re: Mark_C]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned

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#2056724 - 03/30/13 08:13 AM Re: Poll (sort of): Will the 'acoustic piano' become a relic? [Re: theJourney]
Mwm Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 752


Excellent article. My wife was successful some years ago in getting the university, where she taught, to install sound reduction materials in all the teaching and practice studios. She had complained of excessive sound levels when working there, borrowed my sound level meter, and found she was exposed for six hours a day to levels well in excess of the legal maximum for that length of exposure.

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#2061038 - 04/07/13 09:58 PM Re: Poll (sort of): Will the 'acoustic piano' become a relic? [Re: Mark_C]
HorseMom Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/14/12
Posts: 51
Loc: Santa Fe, New Mexico
Never!
_________________________
Heels down!

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