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#2048452 - 03/14/13 10:45 PM Adult student learned concerto but no musicians!
P I A N O piano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 425
Loc: Ann Arbor, Michigan
I feel a bit lowly even mentioning this- but I am polishing and ready to perform Mozart #6 in B flat Major- but I cannot find musicians! I have been working on this with my teacher and was just told to hire musicians...now that it's time to find a double quartet, 2 ea of horns, oboe, flute. I had no idea of the cost and cannot afford the going rate in my area (90.00/hour) for a 14 piece orchestra. I would love the experience- any advice on how to find musicians or is this going to be sadly anticlimactic . . . I wish I knew that this would be so difficult when I started working on this piece.
_________________________
Chopin, Polonaise in C sharp minor, Etude in E major;
Bach, Toccata in e minor BWV 914;
Debussy, Snow is Dancing;
Schubert, Moments Musicaux,No.4 in C Sharp Minor;
Beethoven, Sonata no. 15 in D major, op. 28 (Pastoral)
teacher: Katherine Teves Mizruchi, Ann Arbor, MI
Steinway B

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#2048455 - 03/14/13 10:51 PM Re: Adult student learned concerto but no musicians! [Re: P I A N O piano]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3158
Loc: Virginia, USA
There are software solutions.
_________________________
gotta go practice

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#2048457 - 03/14/13 11:03 PM Re: Adult student learned concerto but no musicians! [Re: P I A N O piano]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7512
Loc: New York City
You can always just play with a string quartet or quintet, assuming there is an arrangement for these instruments.

If there isn't, you could make one.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2048484 - 03/15/13 12:58 AM Re: Adult student learned concerto but no musicians! [Re: P I A N O piano]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5421
Loc: Orange County, CA
Or you can turn up your stereo to maximum volume and play along with a CD. I've done that before.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#2048492 - 03/15/13 01:20 AM Re: Adult student learned concerto but no musicians! [Re: P I A N O piano]
Nikolas Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5220
Loc: Europe
Why not a two piano version?
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#2048520 - 03/15/13 02:55 AM Re: Adult student learned concerto but no musicians! [Re: P I A N O piano]
Candywoman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 832
As Nicholas says, you need to first work with another pianist. The way I did this was place an ad online in my area. A piano teacher responded and we play each others parts. This is very important before you collect your musicians. When you can play it very well with a pianist, you can look around for students or semi-professionals who would like to play in your orchestra. Check with your chamber music society, university, or high school. You will need to buy the orchestral score and the parts, but I suspect you can get the volunteers to pay for their parts. You might consider charging a $10 rental fee. Good luck!

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#2048546 - 03/15/13 04:33 AM Re: Adult student learned concerto but no musicians! [Re: P I A N O piano]
Chris H. Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 2845
Loc: UK.
It all depends on your level of performance and what you want to do with it really. If you just want the satisfaction of playing the concerto at home then an orchestral accompaniment on CD would be good. There is a series of books, I think it's called music minus one, which gives you the solo score and a recorded accompaniment. If you want to play it with someone then as others have said you need to try a two piano version first.

For public performance you could try contacting any local amateur orchestras in your area. Where I live there are a couple who are happy for soloists to come and play concertos with them. The cost is usually met by ticket sales for the concert so there shouldn't be any expense for you personally.
_________________________
Pianist and piano teacher.

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#2048740 - 03/15/13 02:59 PM Re: Adult student learned concerto but no musicians! [Re: P I A N O piano]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7512
Loc: New York City
Definitely don't use Music Minus One, it's not helpful because there is no actual conductor there and it gives you no room for expression. You're trying to keep up with the orchestra instead of it following you.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2048750 - 03/15/13 03:06 PM Re: Adult student learned concerto but no musicians! [Re: Polyphonist]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3158
Loc: Virginia, USA
Band in a Box follows you.
_________________________
gotta go practice

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#2048767 - 03/15/13 03:35 PM Re: Adult student learned concerto but no musicians! [Re: P I A N O piano]
Chris H. Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 2845
Loc: UK.
Music minus one is the same thing as when any other music student plays along with a recording. Not ideal of course but it can serve a purpose.

I'm interested to know how band in a box follows you though Tim?
_________________________
Pianist and piano teacher.

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#2048788 - 03/15/13 04:20 PM Re: Adult student learned concerto but no musicians! [Re: P I A N O piano]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11572
Loc: Canada
I am curious. If a student is working on a piece with a teacher and the piece is to be performed with accompaniment, does the teacher play no role in that aspect? Um - come to think of it - this is piano. But for solo instruments, the teachers we were with did recommend the accompanist and knew whom to contact.

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#2048807 - 03/15/13 05:19 PM Re: Adult student learned concerto but no musicians! [Re: Chris H.]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3158
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: Chris H.


I'm interested to know how band in a box follows you though Tim?


I don't know how it works. I haven't tried it myself. I'm going on reports from fellow trombone players. I've been told that in many music schools an accompanist is no longer required for juries, etc., that everybody uses BIAB now.

Maybe I misunderstood. I'll ask somebody who uses it.


Edited by TimR (03/15/13 05:22 PM)
_________________________
gotta go practice

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#2048841 - 03/15/13 07:17 PM Re: Adult student learned concerto but no musicians! [Re: P I A N O piano]
Nikolas Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5220
Loc: Europe
You can tweak BIAB to alter its performance everytime, but I seriously doubt it's following the performer... Do check Tim, I'm also quite curious...
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#2048886 - 03/15/13 09:02 PM Re: Adult student learned concerto but no musicians! [Re: Nikolas]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3158
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
You can tweak BIAB to alter its performance everytime, but I seriously doubt it's following the performer... Do check Tim, I'm also quite curious...


It is very possible I just remembered wrong. I've asked the question with some trombone players, maybe they'll come up with something.

If you have somebody to play the accompaniment, there are programs that let you step through a MIDI output by playing a keyboard. There is some potential to these - they would allow your accompanist to follow you through very complex arrangements.
_________________________
gotta go practice

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#2048900 - 03/15/13 09:54 PM Re: Adult student learned concerto but no musicians! [Re: P I A N O piano]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13763
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Instead of hiring 14 people, hire 5:

String Quartet + Second Piano.

We used to do this in Livonia (we did a concerto camp coached by Gene Bossart, I was the 2nd piano) and it works quite well. You basically play with 2nd piano, but the string players augment the sound and it makes a huge difference.

Originally Posted By: P I A N O piano
I feel a bit lowly even mentioning this- but I am polishing and ready to perform Mozart #6 in B flat Major- but I cannot find musicians! I have been working on this with my teacher and was just told to hire musicians...now that it's time to find a double quartet, 2 ea of horns, oboe, flute. I had no idea of the cost and cannot afford the going rate in my area (90.00/hour) for a 14 piece orchestra. I would love the experience- any advice on how to find musicians or is this going to be sadly anticlimactic . . . I wish I knew that this would be so difficult when I started working on this piece.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#2048934 - 03/15/13 11:53 PM Re: Adult student learned concerto but no musicians! [Re: P I A N O piano]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3158
Loc: Virginia, USA
Movies are made with real symphony orchestras, but only for the final take.

All of the early writing and editing are done with software orchestras like Garritan Symphony, etc.
http://www.garritan.com/

You would be surprised how good the quality is now.
_________________________
gotta go practice

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#2049128 - 03/16/13 12:19 PM Re: Adult student learned concerto but no musicians! [Re: Nikolas]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3158
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
You can tweak BIAB to alter its performance everytime, but I seriously doubt it's following the performer... Do check Tim, I'm also quite curious...


You are right, I remembered wrong.

But apparently SmartMusic can.

http://www.smartmusic.com/products/
_________________________
gotta go practice

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#2049142 - 03/16/13 12:54 PM Re: Adult student learned concerto but no musicians! [Re: P I A N O piano]
Brinestone Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 350
What about posting a flyer at a local community college or music store asking for volunteer amateur musicians? As a flute player, I'd be tempted to call you if only for the opportunity to dust off my flute and make some real music on it again.
_________________________
Piano teacher since 2008, member of NFMC

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#2049149 - 03/16/13 01:11 PM Re: Adult student learned concerto but no musicians! [Re: P I A N O piano]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
You're also going to need a venue.
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

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#2049327 - 03/16/13 08:19 PM Re: Adult student learned concerto but no musicians! [Re: Brinestone]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3158
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: Brinestone
What about posting a flyer at a local community college or music store asking for volunteer amateur musicians? As a flute player, I'd be tempted to call you if only for the opportunity to dust off my flute and make some real music on it again.


That assumes the player not only has the performance skills to play this piece, but the organizational skills to put together an ensemble, schedule rehearsals, edit parts, tune the second viola desk, mark bowings, coach, cheerlead, conduct, etc.

It can be done. It can be hugely rewarding. But I'm not sure that's what the OP is looking for.

The easiest way would be to find a community or small college orchestra and talk them into putting you on the program for the next concert.

How much cooperation you get depends on what their approach is and how well you play the concerto. You're going to need to bring them a CD of you playing.

There is a sneaky way of getting your foot in the door. Join the group as a utility percussionist. Make yourself a valuable member - never complain, play everything asked, show up early for everything, laugh at the conductor's jokes no matter how dumb, in general fit in. After the first concert approach the director with your proposal.
_________________________
gotta go practice

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#2049328 - 03/16/13 08:30 PM Re: Adult student learned concerto but no musicians! [Re: TimR]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11572
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: TimR
tune the second viola desk,

(?)

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#2049356 - 03/16/13 09:33 PM Re: Adult student learned concerto but no musicians! [Re: keystring]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3158
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: keystring
Originally Posted By: TimR
tune the second viola desk,

(?)


That was humor, keystring.

If you've ever played with a community orchestra, you know there are ..........ah........... tuning inconsistencies.......somewhere down the row.

As painful as it is to explain, listening is much worse.

Currently I only direct a handbell group. They come pretuned from the factory (although Gb4 has a strange overtone, if it weren't out of warranty I'd send it back. I guess nobody noticed before me). But groups I play with vary in how stable a core pitch they maintain. When I've worked with guitar groups sometimes I get frustrated enough I just tune them myself. But that doesn't work with fretless instruments like violin and viola.


Edited by TimR (03/16/13 09:34 PM)
_________________________
gotta go practice

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#2049448 - 03/17/13 01:36 AM Re: Adult student learned concerto but no musicians! [Re: Nikolas]
LoPresti Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 1304
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: TimR
Band in a Box follows you.

Originally Posted By: Nikolas
You can tweak BIAB to alter its performance everytime, but I seriously doubt it's following the performer...

It is my understanding that, at Eastman, for Fall 2013, the entire entering Freshmen class is Band-In-A-Box. The conservatory is planning on saving big on dorms, food, and especially professors.

They have been experimenting this semester with a Band-In-A-Box for the Conducting Majors, and they find that it follows very, very well indeed - even restarting where the oboe has the "pickup" . . .

In fact, the 100+ year old, world-renowned Eastman Wind Ensemble has replaced each of its players with a nice Band-In-A-Box. The last concert was not presented to any live individuals in the audience. Instead, the theatre was filled entirely with software known as Audience-In-A-Bag!

Ed
_________________________
In music, everything one does correctly helps everything else.

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#2049710 - 03/17/13 02:04 PM Re: Adult student learned concerto but no musicians! [Re: LoPresti]
Joyce_dup1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/01/02
Posts: 191
Loc: Chicago
Have you checked to see if there are any local music clubs? Where I live we have a club that arranges monthly performances, free to the community. 90% of the musicians are rehearsing pieces they are getting ready to play elsewhere. Most musicians are eager and happy to join others for rehearsals and performance opportunities. Look into it. You might be surprised at what you find locally.

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#2049718 - 03/17/13 02:12 PM Re: Adult student learned concerto but no musicians! [Re: P I A N O piano]
Nikolas Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5220
Loc: Europe
ED: HAHAHAHAHA! Good one!
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#2049877 - 03/17/13 07:22 PM Re: Adult student learned concerto but no musicians! [Re: P I A N O piano]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7305
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Here's another thought, courtesy of my son in Austin, TX.

Look for a civic orchestra, often made up of volunteers and advanced amateurs. They really like to have competent concerto performers, because it's such an audience pleaser. In Austin, there are two, and they never have enough solo performers to meet the demand.

Check a wider area, and you might be surprised what you uncover.

Best of luck to you, and if you do perform, you can always post a youtube for us to admire!
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#2050037 - 03/18/13 03:11 AM Re: Adult student learned concerto but no musicians! [Re: P I A N O piano]
Peter K. Mose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/06/12
Posts: 1316
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Following on John's suggestion, it might be either strategic or a lovely gesture to offer to make a $ donation to such a civic orchestra. They are always in need. A few hundred dollars might be less outlay than Kreisler's helpful suggestion to hire five musicians.

In essence you'd be buying a run-through, which might lead to other things.

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