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Joined: Nov 2001
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OP
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Hi All,
I just wanted to take a quick poll of the group here:
If you're a dedicated amateur/music lover out there that has a full-time day job and an hour or two to practice on weekdays and maybe three to four hours on weekends... How long do you think it would take you to learn the Goldberg Variations? I understand that everyone is different and there are a whole host of factors that may affect how quickly one learns. I just wanted to get a pulse out there for what people thought.
Thanks!
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A lifetime. One is never finished learning the GBVs. Playing the notes is another thing. Much easier. Too many variables to tell how it takes to learn.
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May I ask what is the point of this question?
And even if it were the most intelligent question ever asked, I couldn't answer it because I've never learned them and I never know how long it will take to learn a piece (well, mind you) until I try it.
Regards,
Polyphonist
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Without knowing your present level, I don't see how one can give an answer. Maybe 99%(or even much more)of pianists will never be able to learn the notes up to speed for the Goldberg Variations due to their extreme technical difficulty and length.
If one cannot learn a piece in a reasonable amount of time then I think it is a bad idea to attempt that piece. Even if one could theoretically learn the notes up to speed for the GV with the number of hours per day you mentioned in two years I think that is a bad use of one's time.
As great as this piece is and as much as you may love it(I assume your asking because you want to learn it), I bet you can find many other pieces(actually hundreds of them) that you would enjoy playing as much but would take a reasonable amount of time.
Last edited by pianoloverus; 03/16/13 05:49 PM.
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Without knowing your present level, I don't see how one can give an answer. Maybe 99%(or even much less) of pianists will never be able to learn the notes up to speed for the Goldberg Variations due to their extreme technical difficulty and length.
If one cannot learn a piece in a reasonable amount of time then I think it is a bad idea to attempt that piece. Even if one could theoretically learn the notes up to speed for the GV with the number of hours per day you mentioned in two years I think that is a bad use of one's time.
As great as this piece is and as much as you may love it(I assume your asking because you want to learn it), I bet you can find many other pieces(actually hundreds of them) that you would enjoy playing as much but would take a reasonable amount of time.
I sort of disagree. If you want to perform the piece, think carefully about the commitment. If you want to lean the piece, take all the time you have. Just don't spend all your time on that single work.
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Maybe 99%(or even much less) of pianists will never be able to learn the notes...
Maybe you meant or even much more? Or 1% instead of 99.
Regards,
Polyphonist
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Maybe 99%(or even much less) of pianists will never be able to learn the notes...
Maybe you meant or even much more? Or 1% instead of 99. Thanks, I edited my post.
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Joined: Dec 2009
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I once worked on the Goldbergs pretty steadily for about six months, at which point I had the Aria and 21 of the 30 variations under pretty good control. Of course, the ten that weren't up to snuff included the really tough ones like 20 and 23! Getting the whole cycle performance-ready was never my goal, but if it had been, I was maybe a quarter of the way there. So to answer the OP's question: I'd estimate two years to feel comfortable performing the cycle - with the score, I should add. And, as was mentioned, it would take forever to really learn it.
For me, the biggest technical challenge with the Goldbergs is the hand crossings. Each hand individually tends be pretty reasonable, but put them together and it can be like a game of Twister. For that reason, I'd love to try the "arabesque" variations, especially 5, 8, 11, 14, 17, 20, 23, and 26, on a two-manual harpsichord. If I had one of those at my disposal, I might even be able to cut a few months from that two-year estimate.
Working on the Goldbergs is an incredibly rewarding project, both pianistically and spiritually. By spiritually, I don't mean it's a religious experience (although it might be, for those who are so inclined), but it just makes me feel good about the world and its potential. Many of the variations seem just like dear old friends to me, and it's a wonder to know these friends are immortal. What an incredible gift from Bach to humanity...
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For me, the biggest technical challenge with the Goldbergs is the hand crossings. Each hand individually tends be pretty reasonable, but put them together and it can be like a game of Twister. For what it's worth: my teacher (a much respected and beloved teacher at the San Francisco Conservatory of Music) is a big fan of playing lots of hand-crossed passages, including a lot in the Goldbergs, with the hands switched and uncrossed. -J
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[quote=MathGuy]For what it's worth: my teacher (a much respected and beloved teacher at the San Francisco Conservatory of Music) is a big fan of playing lots of hand-crossed passages, including a lot in the Goldbergs, with the hands switched and uncrossed. -J Now that's interesting. I often find crossed hands difficult because of, er, two chest height anatomical obstructions. Whenever possible, I do the same thing as long as it doesn't negatively effect the sound.
Best regards,
Deborah
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For what it's worth: my teacher (a much respected and beloved teacher at the San Francisco Conservatory of Music) is a big fan of playing lots of hand-crossed passages, including a lot in the Goldbergs, with the hands switched and uncrossed. -J Now that's interesting. I often find crossed hands difficult because of, er, two chest height anatomical obstructions. Whenever possible, I do the same thing. My teacher mentioned that reason specifically for generally recommending (most of her students are female) to uncross hands at the end of the first movement of Beethoven's op.57. -J
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For what it's worth: my teacher (a much respected and beloved teacher at the San Francisco Conservatory of Music) is a big fan of playing lots of hand-crossed passages, including a lot in the Goldbergs, with the hands switched and uncrossed. -J Now that's interesting. I often find crossed hands difficult because of, er, two chest height anatomical obstructions. Whenever possible, I do the same thing. My teacher mentioned that reason specifically for generally recommending (most of her students are female) to uncross hands at the end of the first movement of Beethoven's op.57. -J I found the first movement of Beethoven's Pathetique to be particularly "inconvenient" because of the speed of the arms crossing and uncrossing. When "things" get in the way it's difficult to do it quickly.
Best regards,
Deborah
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I played the Goldbergs for my senior recital nearly 30 years ago. I'm still learning them.
"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy
"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."
♪ ≠$
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You'll never finish it, probably, but don't let that stop you!
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Just depends on the quality of practicing and how well things stick in your brain. Could be never, could be 5-6 months.
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt) www.pianoped.comwww.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed
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The circumstances outlined in the first post happen to fit my case so I'll take part in the poll. If dedicating most of my practice time to the project, I'd need 6 to 8 months. That means to get the notes under my fingers, not to have the piece performance-ready.
My technique and sight reading are intermediate level. I do play a lot of Bach.
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I never know how long it will take to learn a piece
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One lifetime is not enough for normal mortals
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The circumstances outlined in the first post happen to fit my case so I'll take part in the poll. If dedicating most of my practice time to the project, I'd need 6 to 8 months. That means to get the notes under my fingers, not to have the piece performance-ready.
My technique and sight reading are intermediate level. I do play a lot of Bach. I think that's like a golfer with a 25 handicap saying I'll play two rounds of golf every day and take a lesson every day and in 8 months I'll be shooting par. I find the idea that some people think that anyone, no matter what their present level of skill, can learn the GV in some finite amount of time completely wrong.
Last edited by pianoloverus; 03/18/13 09:04 AM.
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The circumstances outlined in the first post happen to fit my case so I'll take part in the poll. If dedicating most of my practice time to the project, I'd need 6 to 8 months. That means to get the notes under my fingers, not to have the piece performance-ready.
My technique and sight reading are intermediate level. I do play a lot of Bach. I think that's like a golfer with a 25 handicap saying I'll play two rounds of golf every day and take a lesson every day and in 8 months I'll be shooting par. It seems the major issue with life is time. I'm a total hack as a golfer, but if I put in that much time and effort I'd be pretty darn good. I understand your criticism of this post but your example is quite extreme and would in fact lead to extreme results (or extreme injury). I find the idea that some people think that anyone, no matter what their present level of skill, can learn the GV in some finite amount of time completely wrong.
Did you miss the comment that the time frame was simply to get the notes down? You're right a lifetime isn't enough to learn the piece for most mere mortals, and for me personally 6-8 months would not be sufficient to even get the notes down. It might also be helpful to define what "getting the notes down" means. I do think that some here have an almost reflexive contrariness that keeps up the entertainment level of this site. Thank you for that.
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