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#2049548 - 03/17/13 08:34 AM What's the shortest rendition of Chopin's G minor ballade?
Sam Rose Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 673
Loc: Los Angeles
I ran across this video recently which got me wondering. It's a youngster playing the entire g minor ballade in about 8 minutes flat. Even Martha Argerich's rendition (the shortest I'd ever heard until this point) is about 8 and a half minutes. The playing is a mixed bag, and I find it very rushed overall (although I'm still jealous of some of his technical ability).
What's the shortest rendition you've heard (and maybe the longest too, for some contrast) and what length do you think works best?

Here's the video I was referring to:
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Playing since age 21 (September 2010) and loving it more every day.
"You can play better than BachMach2." - Mark_C
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Chopin Ballade no 1 in G minor Op.23
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#2049554 - 03/17/13 08:44 AM Re: What's the shortest rendition of Chopin's G minor ballade? [Re: Sam Rose]
kapelli Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 407
Loc: Poland
It's awful in my opinion.
And - whats' the reason of speed?
Piano it's not Formula1 race.

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#2049555 - 03/17/13 08:50 AM Re: What's the shortest rendition of Chopin's G minor ballade? [Re: Sam Rose]
Jolteon Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 526
Loc: Perth, Australia
Obviously it's this one:



smile
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#2049556 - 03/17/13 08:53 AM Re: What's the shortest rendition of Chopin's G minor ballade? [Re: Sam Rose]
Sam Rose Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 673
Loc: Los Angeles
Hahahaha nice try laugh

I meant FULL performance.

And kapelli, I didn't say faster was better! I was just wondering about the range of speeds used for this piece. That's all. smile
_________________________
Playing since age 21 (September 2010) and loving it more every day.
"You can play better than BachMach2." - Mark_C
Currently Butchering:
Chopin Ballade no 1 in G minor Op.23
My Piano Diary: http://www.youtube.com/sirsardonic
♪ > $

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#2049588 - 03/17/13 10:26 AM Re: What's the shortest rendition of Chopin's G minor ballade? [Re: kapelli]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19644
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: kapelli
It's awful in my opinion. And - whats' the reason of speed? Piano it's not Formula1 race.
Just probably a high school or college kid playing in a high school or college talent show. He plays much better than most(I'd guess 95%)students his age by a lot.

I find your criticism far too harsh (even to the extreme of being mean spirited) and also unfounded. There's very few teachers out there, except perhaps those teaching only very advanced students at conservatories, who wouldn't enjoy having someone like that as a pupil. He's obviously musical, serious, and far more talented and accomplished than most his age. Even though this was a public video and wasn't posted in the PW member's recordings there's no reason to be so negative.

Criticism like the above is IMO a perfect example of not considering the age and type of student when offering criticism. This was not a person auditioning for an advanced program at Curtis.


Edited by pianoloverus (03/17/13 10:33 AM)

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#2049592 - 03/17/13 10:37 AM Re: What's the shortest rendition of Chopin's G minor ballade? [Re: Sam Rose]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19644
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Sam Rose
I was just wondering about the range of speeds used for this piece.
The extreme speeds, either fast or slow, are not so important I think as a range of speeds in the middle by the best professional pianists.

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#2049596 - 03/17/13 10:45 AM Re: What's the shortest rendition of Chopin's G minor ballade? [Re: Sam Rose]
Hakki Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2778
Actually this performance is really a great accomplishment.
I enjoyed listening to it.

Considering the nature of a live performance, IMO a bit rushing is almost expected, if the player is not that experienced performing on stage.

That said, this young player didn't played any section uncontrollably. In fact his all technical passages were convincing. His musicality was good too. Apparently he is talented.
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#2049605 - 03/17/13 10:59 AM Re: What's the shortest rendition of Chopin's G minor ballade? [Re: Sam Rose]
jeffreyjones Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 2393
Loc: San Jose, CA
Originally Posted By: Sam Rose
And kapelli, I didn't say faster was better! I was just wondering about the range of speeds used for this piece. That's all. smile


The range is enormous. Some of my favorite performances, like Moravec's, are over 10 minutes. Some are closer to 8.

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#2049631 - 03/17/13 12:02 PM Re: What's the shortest rendition of Chopin's G minor ballade? [Re: Sam Rose]
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5429
Loc: Europe
I can't see any reason for any work to be rushed... Or be discussed on how fast the performer(s) went... :-/ sorry...
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#2049649 - 03/17/13 12:36 PM Re: What's the shortest rendition of Chopin's G minor ballade? [Re: Sam Rose]
JoelW Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4931
Loc: USA
This performance is definitely the shortest I've ever heard, but it felt like the longest. eek

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#2049716 - 03/17/13 02:12 PM Re: What's the shortest rendition of Chopin's G minor ballade? [Re: JoelW]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19644
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: JoelW
This performance is definitely the shortest I've ever heard, but it felt like the longest. eek
Another gratuitous insult.

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#2049729 - 03/17/13 03:15 PM Re: What's the shortest rendition of Chopin's G minor ballade? [Re: Sam Rose]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6248
Loc: St. Louis area
Friedrich Gulda is the shortest I have at 7:56. Cortot at 8:28 and 8:39. Gavrilov at 8:50. Horowitz at 8:51. Ashkenazy at 8:57. Arrau, Janus, and Rubinstein at about 9:20. Zimerman at 9:39 and Horowitz again at 9:42
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#2049841 - 03/17/13 06:28 PM Re: What's the shortest rendition of Chopin's G minor ballade? [Re: Hakki]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8935
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Hakki

That said, this young player didn't play any section uncontrollably. In fact his all technical passages were convincing. His musicality was good too. Apparently he is talented.

+1. I would agree very much.

At least Argerich has not been bashed in this thread. Yes, I feel that her performance is rather rushed, but IMO she does not ever play badly.
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#2049884 - 03/17/13 07:29 PM Re: What's the shortest rendition of Chopin's G minor ballade? [Re: Sam Rose]
bennevis Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5551
Cortot's first recording (1926), complete with the odd mishap as well as his inimitable elastic rhythm, comes in around 7:57.

But the shortest I've found is by Alexander Brailowsky at 7:35, viz:
www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL45489FA83DCF5207


Edited by bennevis (03/17/13 07:57 PM)
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#2049888 - 03/17/13 07:32 PM Re: What's the shortest rendition of Chopin's G minor ballade? [Re: Damon]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6248
Loc: St. Louis area
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#2049904 - 03/17/13 08:00 PM Re: What's the shortest rendition of Chopin's G minor ballade? [Re: Sam Rose]
riley80 Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 08/03/08
Posts: 390
Loc: Florida
My hat's off to the guy for his level of technical accomplishment. Heck, I can't get past about the 50th measure.

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#2049936 - 03/17/13 09:16 PM Re: What's the shortest rendition of Chopin's G minor ballade? [Re: pianoloverus]
JoelW Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4931
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: JoelW
This performance is definitely the shortest I've ever heard, but it felt like the longest. eek
Another gratuitous insult.


No, not an insult. Just the truth. Very talented guy no doubt, but his tempo is at times unbearable to listen to for me, making it very boring. This of course is just a minor issue. With a good teacher (heck even a mediocre one), he could fix up these messy tempi and it would be a lot better.

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#2050142 - 03/18/13 09:25 AM Re: What's the shortest rendition of Chopin's G minor ballade? [Re: JoelW]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19644
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: JoelW
This performance is definitely the shortest I've ever heard, but it felt like the longest. eek
Another gratuitous insult.


No, not an insult. Just the truth. Very talented guy no doubt, but his tempo is at times unbearable to listen to for me, making it very boring. This of course is just a minor issue. With a good teacher (heck even a mediocre one), he could fix up these messy tempi and it would be a lot better.
Your comment that I quoted was sarcastic and, to me, sounded quite mean spirited and arrogant. How would you feel if you posted a recording and someone else made the same comment?

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#2050145 - 03/18/13 09:38 AM Re: What's the shortest rendition of Chopin's G minor ballade? [Re: pianoloverus]
JoelW Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4931
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: JoelW
This performance is definitely the shortest I've ever heard, but it felt like the longest. eek
Another gratuitous insult.


No, not an insult. Just the truth. Very talented guy no doubt, but his tempo is at times unbearable to listen to for me, making it very boring. This of course is just a minor issue. With a good teacher (heck even a mediocre one), he could fix up these messy tempi and it would be a lot better.
Your comment that I quoted was sarcastic and, to me, sounded quite mean spirited and arrogant. How would you feel if you posted a recording and someone else made the same comment?


There's no ill intent in my comment, but I should have included my explanation ^^ in the same post. It looks like a gratuitous insult, but it isn't. So I apologize if any feelings were hurt.

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#2050177 - 03/18/13 10:52 AM Re: What's the shortest rendition of Chopin's G minor ballade? [Re: pianoloverus]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6470
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: JoelW
This performance is definitely the shortest I've ever heard, but it felt like the longest. eek
Another gratuitous insult.


No, not an insult. Just the truth. Very talented guy no doubt, but his tempo is at times unbearable to listen to for me, making it very boring. This of course is just a minor issue. With a good teacher (heck even a mediocre one), he could fix up these messy tempi and it would be a lot better.
Your comment that I quoted was sarcastic and, to me, sounded quite mean spirited and arrogant. How would you feel if you posted a recording and someone else made the same comment?

Fortunately, the video wasn't actually posted by the performer - and I doubt he has any idea it is being discussed here.
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#2050251 - 03/18/13 01:30 PM Re: What's the shortest rendition of Chopin's G minor ballade? [Re: carey]
JoelW Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4931
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: carey

Fortunately, the video wasn't actually posted by the performer - and I doubt he has any idea it is being discussed here.


I'd consider this unfortunate.

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#2050274 - 03/18/13 02:28 PM Re: What's the shortest rendition of Chopin's G minor ballade? [Re: Sam Rose]
Tim Adrianson Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/10
Posts: 1123
Well, I thought I'd listen to this after reviewing a number of postings -- overall, I agree with Hakki: I was genuinely surprised at how GOOD this rendition was, and how musical! This kid really has chops, but also a very rich, satisfying tone. For my personal taste, he DOES have the "length" right -- if you choose to take it at this tempo, AND can negotiate the brutally virtuosic material at several critical junctures in the piece, the rewards are excitement and urgency. Sure, there were some noticeable fluffs, but I took much more notice of his ability to nail some very difficult material at this tempo, and really did not relate much to the "rushing" character -- for me, that's part of the excitement.

Parenthetically, I was somewhat amused with the background ambience on this video -- clearly, this was not an audience used to classical music. After about a minute's worth of low-level chatter, you could hear a distinct "SSHHH" from somebody, effectively telling the rabble to "shut the f..k up". Well, eventually, he seemed to win them over -- no "bravos", but plenty of whistles -- and I personally thought it was well deserved.

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#2050312 - 03/18/13 03:45 PM Re: What's the shortest rendition of Chopin's G minor ballade? [Re: JoelW]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6470
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: carey

Fortunately, the video wasn't actually posted by the performer - and I doubt he has any idea it is being discussed here.


I'd consider this unfortunate.


Unfortunate because he didn't know folks were talking about him behind his back???? grin
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#2050313 - 03/18/13 03:47 PM Re: What's the shortest rendition of Chopin's G minor ballade? [Re: Tim Adrianson]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6470
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Tim Adrianson
Well, I thought I'd listen to this after reviewing a number of postings -- overall, I agree with Hakki: I was genuinely surprised at how GOOD this rendition was, and how musical! This kid really has chops, but also a very rich, satisfying tone. For my personal taste, he DOES have the "length" right -- if you choose to take it at this tempo, AND can negotiate the brutally virtuosic material at several critical junctures in the piece, the rewards are excitement and urgency. Sure, there were some noticeable fluffs, but I took much more notice of his ability to nail some very difficult material at this tempo, and really did not relate much to the "rushing" character -- for me, that's part of the excitement.


thumb thumb thumb
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#2050395 - 03/18/13 06:15 PM Re: What's the shortest rendition of Chopin's G minor ballade? [Re: carey]
JoelW Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4931
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: carey

Fortunately, the video wasn't actually posted by the performer - and I doubt he has any idea it is being discussed here.


I'd consider this unfortunate.


Unfortunate because he didn't know folks were talking about him behind his back???? grin


But in all seriousness, I think he really is missing out on GOOD information from everyone here at PW.

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