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#2049803 - 03/17/13 05:11 PM Buzz/rattle/twange on release of keys
pscom Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/17/13
Posts: 2
Hello. Please forgive my complete inability to describe this issue with proper terminology. I know very little about pianos but I want to find out about the following problem with one in my care.

About a dozen adjacent keys near the centre of the instrument sound normally but with a horrible metallic twanging buzzy sound that persists over the main note. With the sustain pedal depressed, it disappears entirely. With the "other" pedal depressed (the one that sort of mutes the notes) the problem remains present or is slightly worse.


I hope this is a common problem and you know what I'm talking about. Can it easily be rectified, perhaps by a tuner who I'd have go over it all quickly?


Oh, and while I'm here - a few hammers don't return very quickly (sometimes needing a nudge), near the top end of the keys. Can this usually be dealt with without too much trouble?

Please ask for any further information you require. Thanks in advance.

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#2049809 - 03/17/13 05:25 PM Re: Buzz/rattle/twange on release of keys [Re: pscom]
RestorerPhil Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/26/12
Posts: 212
Loc: Georgia, USA
If the sound comes at the end of the playing of a note, it could be hard dampers.

More precisely...

Play a single note without depressing the right (sustain) pedal.
Let that key up very slowly.
Do you hear an "oink" sound? If you do, it is the hard damper coming back down on the string, making a buzz or oink.

This is only one possibility, so have a good technician come assess the piano. If you have a tuning done, this could involve a pitch raise to standard A440 tension level, plus the tuning. Simply tell the tuner what you have told us, and ask if the charge for the tuning could include getting a grip on what other needs you have.
_________________________
Lavender Piano Services
Established 1977
Tuning, Concert Maintenance,
Rebuilding & Restoration

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#2049810 - 03/17/13 05:25 PM Re: Buzz/rattle/twange on release of keys [Re: pscom]
Cy Shuster, RPT Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 3448
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
What brand and model (or size) piano is it, and how long have you had it?

If it's a vertical, it's possible that the damper tails are being hit by the strings on a hard blow. The fact that it goes away with the pedal down indicates it's probably a simple adjustment.

Sluggish hammers are also usually fixed easily with lubrication.

--Cy--
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Cy Shuster, RPT
505-265-4234
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Albuquerque, New Mexico

Registered Piano Technician
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#2049835 - 03/17/13 06:18 PM Re: Buzz/rattle/twange on release of keys [Re: pscom]
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21448
Loc: Oakland
Is there a stain on the top of the piano? You have the symptoms of water damage.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#2050339 - 03/18/13 04:55 PM Re: Buzz/rattle/twange on release of keys [Re: BDB]
pscom Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/17/13
Posts: 2
Originally Posted By: RestorerPhil
If the sound comes at the end of the playing of a note, it could be hard dampers.

More precisely...

Play a single note without depressing the right (sustain) pedal.
Let that key up very slowly.
Do you hear an "oink" sound? If you do, it is the hard damper coming back down on the string, making a buzz or oink.


I'm afraid I've since forgotten "when" the noise comes, i.e. with the arrival of the main note or upon release of the key. I made note of it at the time but have since lost firm memory of it! I won't be able to touch the piano again for a little while, unfortunately - basically it's very cheap and I was thinking of purchasing it if it would be fixable and end up playing alright for a complete beginner.

Quote:

This is only one possibility, so have a good technician come assess the piano. If you have a tuning done, this could involve a pitch raise to standard A440 tension level, plus the tuning. Simply tell the tuner what you have told us, and ask if the charge for the tuning could include getting a grip on what other needs you have.




Originally Posted By: Cy Shuster, RPT
What brand and model (or size) piano is it, and how long have you had it?


"MARSCHAL BERLIN" says the plate.



Quote:

If it's a vertical, it's possible that the damper tails are being hit by the strings on a hard blow. The fact that it goes away with the pedal down indicates it's probably a simple adjustment.

Sluggish hammers are also usually fixed easily with lubrication.

--Cy--


Originally Posted By: BDB
Is there a stain on the top of the piano? You have the symptoms of water damage.


I'm afraid I don't recall, sorry. Quite possibly, though.

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#2050355 - 03/18/13 05:16 PM Re: Buzz/rattle/twange on release of keys [Re: pscom]
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21448
Loc: Oakland
Pass on it. Get something better.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#2050357 - 03/18/13 05:24 PM Re: Buzz/rattle/twange on release of keys [Re: BDB]
RestorerPhil Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/26/12
Posts: 212
Loc: Georgia, USA
Upon seeing the picture of the piano, I would tend to agree with BDB. There are so many much newer pianos around these days CHEEEEEEP (which is southern American lingo for cheap, inexpensive, said with a lilting tone).
ha
A customer of mine bought a very serviceable Baldwin studio recently for $600 - one just old enough to not have the poor materials which Baldwin used in its later manufacture, but not old enough to be worn out. In fact, it had little wear at all.
_________________________
Lavender Piano Services
Established 1977
Tuning, Concert Maintenance,
Rebuilding & Restoration

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#2050372 - 03/18/13 05:42 PM Re: Buzz/rattle/twange on release of keys [Re: pscom]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7481
Loc: France
Externally it is nice, some use the panels and install them on a modern piano just for that reason.

repairs are more expensive than buying a second hand modern piano


P.S The twangs and buzzes are what makes the charm of old pianos, why do you want to get rid of them ? wink

Sometime the charm of an old 1930 vertical is yet apparent, and the quality of the building make them good candidates for standard repairs, then you may need to be cautious before buying, and choose reputed brands and excellent construction.

But if there are audible defects that mean more money than you are willing to put in it, generally.


PPS I had (for free) a very good Gorss & Kallman vertical from 1930, with a Boesendorfer tone, r and tall really excellent, and not one part not lining after 80 years, thick nice ivories, excellent pinblock, etc.

That one will be repaired sold for the cost of the repair (hence the cost of a new medium grade vertical not too tall)

That little German piano builder made excellent instruments. I wonder about Irving Berlin, possibly good initial quality .
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2050374 - 03/18/13 05:44 PM Re: Buzz/rattle/twange on release of keys [Re: pscom]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7481
Loc: France
the most basic repais will put you in some budget anyway, and cannot be realised on site for some part.

SO if nobody told you yet, have it examined by the future technician
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2050473 - 03/18/13 08:41 PM Re: Buzz/rattle/twange on release of keys [Re: pscom]
David Boyce Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 274
Loc: Scotland
pscom, are you in the UK? That looks like a 1950s 'modernised' piano. Is there any chance you could take the top panel off and take a pic to let us see? In Britain in the 1950s there was a big fashion for 'modernising' 1890s cheap pianos. It did nothing for the inside of the piano, only the case. Mostly they should have been burnt instead of modernised. http://www.davidboyce.co.uk/birdcage-pianos.php

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#2050559 - 03/19/13 12:20 AM Re: Buzz/rattle/twange on release of keys [Re: pscom]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7481
Loc: France
Yes as the bottom panel is different fom the top
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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