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#2046229 - 03/10/13 10:42 PM Free Piano Tuning Software for Windows
daniokeeper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 1067
Loc: PA
There seems to be free (as in beer) piano tuning software available at sourceforge.

I have not used it on a piano yet, so I do not know the quality.

If anyone else is interested in experimenting, here is the link:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/ultratune/?source=dlp

Note: I installed this on my netbook. After installation, I had error messages about Microsoft.DirectX.directsound

I updated my system and updated DirectX. It seems to be working.

Edit: To start the program in v0.2.0 this is the path:

UltraTune.v0.2.0 > UltraTune > bin > Release > UltraTune.v0.2.0 > UltraTune.v0.2

You may get a prompt asking for permission to unzip other files.

Also, I do get some error messages. Of course, this is only v0.2

Edit: It had to happen. Sooner or later someone would come up with a freeware version of piano tuning software including stretch.


Edited by daniokeeper (03/10/13 11:30 PM)
_________________________
Joe Gumbosky
Piano Tuning & Repair
www.tinyurl.com/tunerjoe
(semi-retired)

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#2046262 - 03/10/13 11:30 PM Re: Free Piano Tuning Software for Windows [Re: daniokeeper]
DoelKees Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/01/10
Posts: 1653
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Thanks for posting this link. I've been looking for something like this to try out my crazy theories for a while.

Too bad it's written in M$C# which I don't know very well.

Kees

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#2046278 - 03/11/13 12:18 AM Re: Free Piano Tuning Software for Windows [Re: daniokeeper]
daniokeeper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 1067
Loc: PA
Hi Kees,

I only had some Java and some C++.Net courses. I need lots and lots of comments laugh smile The project seems to be GPL'ed, which is awesome!

Now if I could just find GNU/Linux piano tuning software, I'd be walking on air smile

Of course if this works out, I may have to just use software for pitch raises, and then go back to aural only for fine tuning in order to justify my existence LOL!

-Joe

Edit: In fact, I think I'll be editing my web-site in the next few days...

Since this has been and is inevitable, soon anyone will be able to download advanced piano tuning software for no cost.

I'm going to get out ahead of this, since it's obvious what's coming. I am changing my approach to using software just for pitch raises and setting UTs. All final passes will be made by ear... old school.

Besides, as I noticed in my "Experiment" thread, there are times when I need to use my ear anyhow. I'll start representing the lineage of the particular training I received years ago, rather than a more generic tuning style that an ETD gives. Maybe this is a good thing ultimately. smile

Then, I'll record the variations from the machine-generated placements for the A's. That way, I can still monitor for any undue changes that will act as a warning that the piano could be developing problems.


Edited by daniokeeper (03/11/13 01:34 AM)
_________________________
Joe Gumbosky
Piano Tuning & Repair
www.tinyurl.com/tunerjoe
(semi-retired)

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#2046290 - 03/11/13 01:16 AM Re: Free Piano Tuning Software for Windows [Re: daniokeeper]
Grandpianoman Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 2315
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Took a look....that spinner looks like an exact copy of the Veritner Ipad spinner?!


Edited by Grandpianoman (03/11/13 01:16 AM)

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#2046291 - 03/11/13 01:23 AM Re: Free Piano Tuning Software for Windows [Re: Grandpianoman]
daniokeeper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 1067
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: Grandpianoman
Took a look....that spinner looks like an exact copy of the Veritner Ipad spinner?!


Yes, it does. And the lower display looks a lot like TuneLab.
_________________________
Joe Gumbosky
Piano Tuning & Repair
www.tinyurl.com/tunerjoe
(semi-retired)

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#2046421 - 03/11/13 10:39 AM Re: Free Piano Tuning Software for Windows [Re: daniokeeper]
pianotune2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/01/12
Posts: 61
Loc: ks
It will be interesting to see if this gets used by pianist in the future to tune their own piano. Could mean a lot of extra repair work in the future(especially replacing broken strings). I wonder if Verituner/Cybertuner/Tunelab will end up doing something different to stay competitive.
_________________________
Stewart Moore
Piano Technician North Central and North East Kansas

www.pianotune2.webs.com

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#2046494 - 03/11/13 02:28 PM Re: Free Piano Tuning Software for Windows [Re: pianotune2]
daniokeeper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 1067
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: pianotune2
It will be interesting to see if this gets used by pianist in the future to tune their own piano. Could mean a lot of extra repair work in the future(especially replacing broken strings). I wonder if Verituner/Cybertuner/Tunelab will end up doing something different to stay competitive.


I also wonder if developments like this will create the demand that will lead piano manufacturers to begin designing pianos that are simpler for the layperson to tune.
_________________________
Joe Gumbosky
Piano Tuning & Repair
www.tinyurl.com/tunerjoe
(semi-retired)

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#2046498 - 03/11/13 02:34 PM Re: Free Piano Tuning Software for Windows [Re: daniokeeper]
RonTuner Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 1624
Loc: Chicagoland
There doesn't seem to be any controls... I see it displaying an iH number when I sing, I'll have to go play with a real piano sometime.

Off to find a link for a user guide.
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Piano/instrument technician
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my piano videos:
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#2046502 - 03/11/13 02:41 PM Re: Free Piano Tuning Software for Windows [Re: daniokeeper]
fishbulb Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/01/13
Posts: 50
Originally Posted By: Grandpianoman
Took a look....that spinner looks like an exact copy of the Veritner Ipad spinner?!


Originally Posted By: daniokeeper
Yes, it does. And the lower display looks a lot like TuneLab.


Hope the developer of this UltraTune software doesn't get sued by Verituner and/or TuneLab for what could appear to be copyright infringement - that is, copying the software interface design.

There have been many big lawsuits about copying Graphical User Interfaces (GUIs) in the past, such as this famous one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Computer,_Inc._v._Microsoft_Corporation

If the developer is reading this:

I would recommend changing the interface to make it more distinct from those other products. Verituner/Tunelab/et al. will already have a strong desire to sue and remove this free substitute product from the market. If they think the GUI is a copy of their products, then they will have a basis for a lawsuit as well.

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#2046517 - 03/11/13 03:03 PM Re: Free Piano Tuning Software for Windows [Re: RonTuner]
daniokeeper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 1067
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: RonTuner
There doesn't seem to be any controls... I see it displaying an iH number when I sing, I'll have to go play with a real piano sometime.

Off to find a link for a user guide.



It's only version 0.2.0. Improvements are probably on their way.
_________________________
Joe Gumbosky
Piano Tuning & Repair
www.tinyurl.com/tunerjoe
(semi-retired)

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#2046550 - 03/11/13 04:07 PM Re: Free Piano Tuning Software for Windows [Re: pianotune2]
BenP Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/16/12
Posts: 163
Loc: South Jersey
Originally Posted By: pianotune2
It will be interesting to see if this gets used by pianist in the future to tune their own piano.


I don't think so. From my experience with pianists (and I have been a pianist much longer than I've been a piano technician), 90% do not care much at all about the mechanics of their instruments, and do not want to be bothered with fixing or tuning it themselves. Much like vehicle owners - probably 90% of whom don't know/care enough about the mechanics of their car to fix it or do routine maintenance themselves. That's not an insult to anyone's intelligence - it's just a matter of time and priorities.

Tuning an acoustic piano will always be a difficult and time-consuming task - especially for the inexperienced. New tools and software may make the job possible for more people, but it will not make it that much easier or faster. The piano owners that will play around with this software will probably be mostly the same people that tinker around with their piano anyway - because it interests them.
_________________________
Ben Patterson
Part-time Piano Tech
Rural South Jersey

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#2046681 - 03/11/13 09:37 PM Re: Free Piano Tuning Software for Windows [Re: daniokeeper]
Dennis Kelvie Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/17/07
Posts: 155
Loc: Caldwell, Idaho
I have tried 5 times to download this and run it on both my netbook and desktop. Netbook is windows 7 64 bit, desktop win 7 32 bit. BOTH ran into 'unexpected error' and would not unpack. What am I doing wrong?
_________________________
Dennis C. Kelvie
Piano Tuner/Technician since 1976

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#2046695 - 03/11/13 09:52 PM Re: Free Piano Tuning Software for Windows [Re: Dennis Kelvie]
daniokeeper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 1067
Loc: PA
That's odd. It's just a zip file. I had no problems.

Edit: Maybe the file got messed up when it was downloaded. You could try deleting the zip file you have, and the downloading it again.


Edited by daniokeeper (03/11/13 10:16 PM)
_________________________
Joe Gumbosky
Piano Tuning & Repair
www.tinyurl.com/tunerjoe
(semi-retired)

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#2046719 - 03/11/13 10:26 PM Re: Free Piano Tuning Software for Windows [Re: daniokeeper]
Mwm Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 752
I have the same problem. tried several times to run file. Got the same error. I have latest windows updates.

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#2046803 - 03/12/13 02:58 AM Re: Free Piano Tuning Software for Windows [Re: daniokeeper]
Withindale Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 1922
Loc: Suffolk, England
Good old XP!
_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#2047227 - 03/12/13 07:59 PM Re: Free Piano Tuning Software for Windows [Re: daniokeeper]
daniokeeper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 1067
Loc: PA
Ther is a new version available:

v0.2.1
_________________________
Joe Gumbosky
Piano Tuning & Repair
www.tinyurl.com/tunerjoe
(semi-retired)

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#2050359 - 03/18/13 05:25 PM Re: Free Piano Tuning Software for Windows [Re: daniokeeper]
fishbulb Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/01/13
Posts: 50
Another new version, v0.2.3 is available, with better bass note detection.

Quote:
Changelog:

Version 0.2.3: - Note detection is improved by penalizing peaks outside the partial windows for a fundamental candidate. This is particularly noticeable for the lowest notes, which are now detected better.

Version 0.2.2: - Stretch tuning targets are now calculated by first generating tuning targets for each note using octaves. Currently the way this is done is fixed. 2:1 octaves are used for the temperament octave, smoothly progressing to 4:1 octaves to C8, and 8:4 octaves for A0. In the future, this will be made adjustable. - The tuning targets are then smoothed to reduce the irregularity between notes (and thus also the irregularity between adjacent intervals).

Version 0.2.1: - Solved a bug where inharmonicity data was not collected correctly if the fundamental was not detected. Inharmonicity data is now collected correctly if 2 or more partials (or 1 partial and the fundamental) are detected.

Version 0.2: - Inharmonicity detector detects the inharmonicity of the sounded note by analysing its partials. - Stretch tuning mode allows the use of the inharmonicity data to create a stretched tuning. - Automatic note selection allows hands free usage. In this version the automatic note selection is still somewhat buggy on the lowest notes of the piano. Future updates will hopefully resolve these problems.

Version 0.1: - Live spectrum display - High precision (<0.2 Hz) tuning dial, displaying tuning offset in cents. - Room noise reduction

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#2050461 - 03/18/13 08:20 PM Re: Free Piano Tuning Software for Windows [Re: daniokeeper]
Roger Ransom Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/05
Posts: 1241
Loc: SouthWest Michigan
It appears to me to be Beta so I'll keep playing with it.
_________________________
Laugh More
Yamaha G7 - Roland FP7

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#2051308 - 03/20/13 11:30 AM Re: Free Piano Tuning Software for Windows [Re: daniokeeper]
fishbulb Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/01/13
Posts: 50
Ultratune Version v0.2.4 just got posted:

Quote:
Version 0.2.4 - The graphical design of the user interface is now more distinct


It looks like the author changed the interface a bit so it looks less like Verituner now. Probably a good thing from a legal standpoint.



One feature request I would have (if the developer is reading this) is support for non-standard ("offset") tunings. In TuneLab, you can set the base offset to, say, -100 cents, so that you can tune a piano a semi-tone low. Or -50 cents, for a quarter-tone low, or -19.78 cents so A5=435hz instead of 440hz if you are tuning a victorian piano. Setting a base offset changes the entire tuning so that all notes are now targeting the new frequencies. TuneLab also has a single-note offset setting if you want to just change the tuning target of one note.

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#2051826 - 03/21/13 09:44 AM Re: Free Piano Tuning Software for Windows [Re: daniokeeper]
filiptb Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/20/13
Posts: 6
Since this software is being discussed here I figured that I'd make an account here as well. I am the developer of this software.

While I do not have a lot of experience in piano tuning, I do have considerable knowledge about signal processing and programming, as well as the physics of strings that cause their inharmonicity. I try to read as much as possible about how experienced tuners create the stretch in a piano -- but I might have some questions in the future, so it is nice that I found this forum.

The features you are requesting will eventually come (especially needed are pitch calibration/offset tunings and manual adjustment of the stretch). However, I want to make the pitch detection more accurate first, before I do anything else -- I want to get this down to sub-cent accuracy. Currently the accuracy is ~1 ct at A440, which is about 0.2 Hz. Tuning with this accuracy would be very close, but would prevent you from attaining a perfect tuning.

I have found a possible solution to it but the mathematics are really complex -- I'll have to figure those out first. (For those who are interested and learned in the subject, I want to try windowing the frequency domain information around specific peaks/partials, then find the center of gravity of the peak to determine the actual frequency. Right now I just choose the frequency with the highest magnitude. I'm still figuring out how I should process the phase information.)

The interface has indeed been changed due to possible copyright claims, and the old interface has been made unavailable. As for patents: this is a difficult matter. There are several US patents claiming different inventions relating to note detection and tuning systems, but there is some doubt about the value of these patents since many of their claims are trivial or non-original. VeriTuner, Inc. is already claiming infringement, but I am myself not concerned with the effects of US Patents since I do not live in the US -- any users or distributors (including SourceForge) located in the US may be -- we'll see how that turns out.

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#2051919 - 03/21/13 12:34 PM Re: Free Piano Tuning Software for Windows [Re: daniokeeper]
filiptb Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/20/13
Posts: 6
Small update: VeriTune has filed a DMCA takedown notice with Sourceforge, leading to the current unavailability of the project -- I will try to resolve this with SourceForge, but if unsuccessful, I will host it myself in another country, which will make it impervious to any future DMCA requests.

It is really bothersome that the DMCA gives rightsholders so much power in the US...

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#2051945 - 03/21/13 01:03 PM Re: Free Piano Tuning Software for Windows [Re: filiptb]
DoelKees Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/01/10
Posts: 1653
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Originally Posted By: filiptb

I have found a possible solution to it but the mathematics are really complex -- I'll have to figure those out first. (For those who are interested and learned in the subject, I want to try windowing the frequency domain information around specific peaks/partials, then find the center of gravity of the peak to determine the actual frequency. Right now I just choose the frequency with the highest magnitude. I'm still figuring out how I should process the phase information.)

I think Pisarenko's method (or some variant) is what you want.

There is probably a US patent on scratching your head. Shame on Verituner.

Kees

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#2051969 - 03/21/13 01:50 PM Re: Free Piano Tuning Software for Windows [Re: daniokeeper]
fishbulb Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/01/13
Posts: 50
Filiptb - sorry to hear about your troubles with VeriTune.

I'm sure they weren't happy to see a substitute product that is free. And free is certainly a lot cheaper than the $900 that they charge (robbery if you ask me) so they are probably just afraid of a little competition.

I wonder if Veritune has any patents at all, or they just filed the DMCA complaint to try and stop a competitor. As the Apple vs. Microsoft case shows, you can't patent a software interface, you can only patent the code behind it. Unless you somehow got your hands on their actual source code and copied it, I don't really think Veritune has any kind legitimate complaint.

If Veritune can't compete with one guy writing his own open-source software project, what hope do they have in competing against Tunelab (which has a better product for 1/3 the cost, in my opinion) and Reyburn Cyber Tuner? I think their DMCA complaint speaks volumes about their insecurity regarding how good they think their software actually is, and what they think about their ability to compete in the marketplace.

Thanks for standing up to them and continuing the development of UltraTune. It has a lot of potential to be a great piece of software (actually it already is!).

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#2052058 - 03/21/13 05:08 PM Re: Free Piano Tuning Software for Windows [Re: DoelKees]
filiptb Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/20/13
Posts: 6
Originally Posted By: DoelKees

I think Pisarenko's method (or some variant) is what you want.


Kees


I think I found the solution:
http://www.ingelec.uns.edu.ar/pds2803/Materiales/Articulos/AnalisisFrecuencial/04205098.pdf

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#2052138 - 03/21/13 08:43 PM Re: Free Piano Tuning Software for Windows [Re: daniokeeper]
johnlewisgrant Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 471
Loc: canada
Noteworthy that not one tuning program like Verituner (or any of the others for that matter) has made it to "market," free or otherwise. I wonder whether it is that easy to smash the copyright?

Anyhow, Verituner is highly regarded--probably the most highly regarded piano-tuning software for a number of reasons, not least of which is the "spinner," which can be speed-adjusted in a manner that makes tuning a string after the initial attack (hammer blow) both flexible and at the same time very, very accurate.

Also, of course, VT permits complex, user-defined tuning styles.

Is it vulnerable? Susceptible of improvement? Absolutely! It is cumbersome, to say the least, by current software standards.


Edited by johnlewisgrant (03/21/13 08:47 PM)

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#2052140 - 03/21/13 08:51 PM Re: Free Piano Tuning Software for Windows [Re: filiptb]
DoelKees Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/01/10
Posts: 1653
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Originally Posted By: filiptb
Originally Posted By: DoelKees

I think Pisarenko's method (or some variant) is what you want.


Kees


I think I found the solution:
http://www.ingelec.uns.edu.ar/pds2803/Materiales/Articulos/AnalisisFrecuencial/04205098.pdf


This paper describes a method in section 3.1. Resolution is something like 0.0001 cent in the absense of noise. It also extracts decay rates and amplitudes.

Kees

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#2052786 - 03/23/13 03:04 AM Re: Free Piano Tuning Software for Windows [Re: daniokeeper]
daniokeeper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 1067
Loc: PA
Hello filiptb,

I have 2 questions:

Ultimately, do you plan to make your UltraTune multi-partial?

Since you are going FOSS, any plans for a GNU/Linux version?

Thanks,
-Joe
_________________________
Joe Gumbosky
Piano Tuning & Repair
www.tinyurl.com/tunerjoe
(semi-retired)

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#2052835 - 03/23/13 07:28 AM Re: Free Piano Tuning Software for Windows [Re: filiptb]
pianolive Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 325
Loc: Europe
I think that the EU has implemented the DMCA so it is the same within the EU as in the US.
I don't understand the problem though. If someone create something like a software or whatever, why should they upload it or parts of it for free? They might have spent a lot of time on their projects, and want to get paid for that, just like we all want to get paid for our work.

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#2052845 - 03/23/13 08:38 AM Re: Free Piano Tuning Software for Windows [Re: daniokeeper]
Withindale Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 1922
Loc: Suffolk, England
What does Verituner's DMCA takedown notice claim? Is the document publically available?
_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#2052849 - 03/23/13 08:46 AM Re: Free Piano Tuning Software for Windows [Re: daniokeeper]
Mark Davidson Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 116
Loc: NC
Patent search comes up with this:

Carpenter tuning patents

A couple of these are not related. They just happen to have the word "tuning" in the abstract.

Haven't waded through it all yet. Patent language is a bit convoluted (well, more than a bit).

-Mark

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