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#2051069 - 03/19/13 09:33 PM Casio AP-450, Yamaha Arius YDP-142, or Casio PX-850
LoverOfGclef85 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 12
So I had a thread about wondering if I should get the CLP-511, which was sold before I could try it out. Instead, I'm looking at the three pianos in the topic. I know the AP-450 isn't being offered in the U.S. (at least from any site I saw) so that might not be a viable option yet, but I'm still looking at it. The Casio PX-850 seems to be the best option because I can get it from Music & Arts with special financing (18 months no interest). I think they will be offering the YDP-142 also, so I'm wondering which one I should get. I've tried the 142 and can say that I do like the sound of it. Yamaha seems like it's a safe choice since it is a well-liked brand. But the Casio seems to have a lot of options that may weigh in its favor..

Any opinions?

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#2051071 - 03/19/13 09:41 PM Re: Casio AP-450, Yamaha Arius YDP-142, or Casio PX-850 [Re: LoverOfGclef85]
mitzysman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 290
i'd do with the Yamaha 142 if it were me. But I am a Yamaha fan.
_________________________
Yamaha P-250 | Galaxy II Pianos | Galaxy Vintage D | The GIANT

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#2051100 - 03/19/13 11:23 PM Re: Casio AP-450, Yamaha Arius YDP-142, or Casio PX-850 [Re: LoverOfGclef85]
galaxy4t Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 855
Loc: Lakewood, CA
If you're comparing solely on value, the Casio will win most of the time. In this case however, the PX-850 can be considered a legitimate contender.It stacks up well against the Yahama. What it comes down to is which action you like and whose piano sound you prefer. But the Casio is worth consideration.

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#2051329 - 03/20/13 12:12 PM Re: Casio AP-450, Yamaha Arius YDP-142, or Casio PX-850 [Re: LoverOfGclef85]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2772
Loc: Atlanta, GA
The AP-450 is outstanding. For its straight forward piano functions, I actually prefer it over the flagship AP-650. It is available in the US through selected piano dealers; it's just not sold online (kinda like certain Roland, Yamaha & Kawai models). The number of dealers representing these (AP-450, AP-650) models is increasing, but admittedly, right now there are areas where it can be difficult to locate.

If I was looking for any kind of reasonable competitor from Yamaha, I would look to the YDP-161 or 162. The 142 is nice and good, but clearly outmatched by the AP-450 in some basic areas. Otherwise look at AP-250 (sold in-stores & online) vs. YDP-141/142.

Good luck in your search.
_________________________
Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta

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#2051419 - 03/20/13 03:02 PM Re: Casio AP-450, Yamaha Arius YDP-142, or Casio PX-850 [Re: PianoWorksATL]
LoverOfGclef85 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 12
So you wouldn't consider the PX 850 at all? I've heard the differences were small between that and the 450. I live in the Philly area. I'd love to be able to take a look at them in person so I can decide. I don't see what the difference is between 250 and 450. They both have the natural sound and the tri sensor keys.

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#2051433 - 03/20/13 03:40 PM Re: Casio AP-450, Yamaha Arius YDP-142, or Casio PX-850 [Re: LoverOfGclef85]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2772
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: LoverOfGclef85
So you wouldn't consider the PX 850 at all?
No, that was not my point. Certainly the PX-850 is a strong model. I just wanted to clear up some things about the AP-450 as not as many people have had the opportunity yet to play it.

I hope to make a short video demo for our YouTube channel tomorrow. Of course, that won't show the specific strengths of the AP-450 that you can sense in person.

The 250 has speakers more on par with the 141/142. Versus the 250, the 450 has a nicer cabinet, height-adjustable bench, better speakers + the lid-speaker system, additional features, polyphony, resonances...a lot.

By specs, the 850 and 450 are not so far apart. It's mostly cabinet style and the inclusion of a height-adjustable bench, but side-by-side, I felt the speaker system on the 450 is a bit better still.
_________________________
Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta

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#2051435 - 03/20/13 03:48 PM Re: Casio AP-450, Yamaha Arius YDP-142, or Casio PX-850 [Re: PianoWorksATL]
LoverOfGclef85 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 12
Ah, I see. Thank you for the very detailed answer. Personally, I would like to get the AP-450 instead of the PX-850, it's just not available near me, at least not that I'm aware of. I've heard that a cabinet style DP will have better sound because the sound resonates more in the body instead of throughout a stand, so maybe that's why you feel the speaker system is better on the AP-450? I'm guessing you didn't get the AP-450 from somewhere in the northeast U.S.?

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#2051507 - 03/20/13 06:26 PM Re: Casio AP-450, Yamaha Arius YDP-142, or Casio PX-850 [Re: LoverOfGclef85]
tim36 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/28/13
Posts: 8
I bought a ap-450 and got it last week.
It seem to be very well build and the cabinet look nice.

As im not a pianist i cant comment too mush on playing. But its sound good and the action seem to be heavy to me like a real piano.

Im quite happy with my purchase and the 3 years warranty when you register with casio.

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#2051643 - 03/20/13 11:06 PM Re: Casio AP-450, Yamaha Arius YDP-142, or Casio PX-850 [Re: tim36]
LoverOfGclef85 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 12
I visited Music & Arts tonight and talked the employee there into requesting the company to look into the PX-850 and the AP-450. If it works, the retailer may start to display models from the Celviano and Privia lines. At least I can hope that they will. She said that she'll call me when she gets word of what they say.

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#2052012 - 03/21/13 03:08 PM Re: Casio AP-450, Yamaha Arius YDP-142, or Casio PX-850 [Re: LoverOfGclef85]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2772
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Music & Arts is an extension or subsidiary of Guitar Center. They are a general music store rather than a piano store, so they are likely only able to get the PX-850 & AP-250 in brown, but not the AP-450 meant for traditional piano dealers.

Since there are both AP-x20 models and the new AP-x50 models (we have both), the Celviano site does not make distinctions between dealers. I'll look into seeing who or where to contact about the newest models specifically.
_________________________
Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta

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#2052160 - 03/21/13 09:58 PM Re: Casio AP-450, Yamaha Arius YDP-142, or Casio PX-850 [Re: LoverOfGclef85]
LoverOfGclef85 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 12
Oh, I forgot to ask, but how is the feel of the AP-450 compared to, say, the YDP-142/YDP-162? Or the older YDP-141/YDP-161? I tried the YDP-181 when I went to Music & Arts and I can't say that I was blown away by it. I don't know if it was that particular DP, but the keys kind of plunked and didn't feel very solid. It felt better than the YDP-141 and the YDP-142 though.

I found two dealers near me that supposedly sell Celvianos (Georges Music and Cunningham Piano) and a few that sell Privias, but I don't know yet whether they're displaying any new models yet. I'll let you know


Edited by LoverOfGclef85 (03/21/13 10:12 PM)

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#2052235 - 03/22/13 01:46 AM Re: Casio AP-450, Yamaha Arius YDP-142, or Casio PX-850 [Re: LoverOfGclef85]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2772
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Your question makes my answer sound muddled. 141/142 - GHS action, 161/162/181 - GH action. Casio's new action is more fairly compared to the GH action, and I give Casio the edge.

I think the 181 is a good piano, so either the demo model wasn't tip-top or more likely you're just not as keen on Yamaha's design as others are. Liking a piano trumps specs when I'm helping customers make their final selection, and in that arena, customer reactions are unpredictable.

I recently had a customer really torn between between competitive Yamaha & Casio models. For the primary piano sounds, he was leaning toward Yamaha, but then he explored some of the additional piano presets and when he stumbled onto Casio's "Mellow Grand" he became transfixed. His reaction surprised us both, but what was a hard decision quickly became easy because he responded to the instrument. It's different for everybody.
_________________________
Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta

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#2052719 - 03/22/13 08:51 PM Re: Casio AP-450, Yamaha Arius YDP-142, or Casio PX-850 [Re: LoverOfGclef85]
LoverOfGclef85 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 12
Right, I forgot that personal preference plays a big part in choosing, as well as the condition the floor model is in. I suppose I'm going to have to try to play through them side by side, if possible, to make a clear decision on what I want.

I've called a few places around my area to see if any of them have the PX-850 or AP-450. None of the ones I called do. Instead, they have the PX-150 or PX-350. I know the keys are the same tri-sensor. Is it worth it for me to go and try out the 150 or 350? I know the speakers are different and I hear there's a chasm between the sound on the 750 and 850, so I imagine there's even more between the 150/350 and the 850.

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#2052756 - 03/22/13 11:48 PM Re: Casio AP-450, Yamaha Arius YDP-142, or Casio PX-850 [Re: LoverOfGclef85]
Charles Cohen Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1541
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: LoverOfGclef85
. . . Is it worth it for me to go and try out the 150 or 350? I know the speakers are different and I hear there's a chasm between the sound on the 750 and 850, so I imagine there's even more between the 150/350 and the 850.


I don't think thee's much difference between the sound generators on the PX-350 and PX-750. The loudspeakers on the PX-350 are small, but they're 2-driver, so the treble is decent. And you can use headphones, or buy outboard powered speakers.

Go and play the PX-350/150, you might like them.

I haven't seen a PX-850 yet, but it does have an upgraded sound generator.

. Charles

PS - bias - I own a PX-350.

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#2053122 - 03/23/13 07:39 PM Re: Casio AP-450, Yamaha Arius YDP-142, or Casio PX-850 [Re: LoverOfGclef85]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2772
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: LoverOfGclef85
Is it worth it for me to go and try out the 150 or 350?
Maybe and maybe not. Most people cannot accurately imagine how the console performs based upon the portables. We tend to rationalize features rather than experiencing the instrument. I really like the 350 and with headphones, you can do a lot of exploring of Casio's identity. Beyond that, it is more apples to oranges.
_________________________
Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta

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#2053945 - 03/25/13 11:18 AM Re: Casio AP-450, Yamaha Arius YDP-142, or Casio PX-850 [Re: LoverOfGclef85]
LoverOfGclef85 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 12
I forgot to mention that I currently own an acoustic upright piano. It's probably over 20 years old. It's a Kohler, so I don't know if that means anything. It's not really in tune, but it's not terribly out of tune either. I think I might play piano more if I could do it while using headphones or the volume was turned down. I'm considering giving away the upright and replace it with a DP. I've seen this review (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp1-5CFSihc) from Joe Raciti and it makes me want one of the Casios more. I'm probably going to end up going for the PX-850 because the AP-450 is not available, unless I get it from overseas. Does anyone know of any place in the US willing to deliver an AP-450 for free? If not, I'm going to end up buying the PX-850 from Total Music Source on Amazon. Perhaps in a month or two of sleeping on the idea of buying it.
I don't want to have bought it too quickly without having thought it through completely.

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#2054165 - 03/25/13 06:08 PM Re: Casio AP-450, Yamaha Arius YDP-142, or Casio PX-850 [Re: LoverOfGclef85]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2772
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: LoverOfGclef85
Does anyone know of any place in the US willing to deliver an AP-450 for free?
I feel on this point, you are missing the change in the Celviano line. For the same reason you can't order a Kawai CS series, Yamaha Clavinova, or Roland HP, you have to visit a store that stocks it. Since it's been available in the US for less than 2 months, you have 2 challenges...changing dealer network + some store want to cycle through their remaining AP-420's before putting out the new stuff. We have them out and side by side.

You mentioned Cunningham which is a dedicated piano dealer...what did they say? George's looks to be an MI chain without acoustic pianos.
_________________________
Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta

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#2054243 - 03/25/13 09:01 PM Re: Casio AP-450, Yamaha Arius YDP-142, or Casio PX-850 [Re: LoverOfGclef85]
LoverOfGclef85 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 12
Cunningham carries neither the AP-450 or the PX-850. They don't have the price for the AP-450, so the employee there said that it doesn't seem like something they can get just yet. I'm guessing that they're probably doing what you said, going through the remaining stock of Celvianos. I'm most likely not going to buy it yet, so I'm really hoping that two or three months of waiting will be enough for the AP-450 to be more widely spread.... That might be hoping for too much though.

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#2054330 - 03/26/13 12:29 AM Re: Casio AP-450, Yamaha Arius YDP-142, or Casio PX-850 [Re: LoverOfGclef85]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2772
Loc: Atlanta, GA
We have both the new and old at the same time, but we have only 2 AP-420's left in stock. We don't stock the PX-850 because I believe the AP-450 represents more for not too much more money (especially given the nice adjustable bench). It was the same for the PX-830 and the AP-420.
_________________________
Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta

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#2054516 - 03/26/13 11:27 AM Re: Casio AP-450, Yamaha Arius YDP-142, or Casio PX-850 [Re: PianoWorksATL]
LoverOfGclef85 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 12
I saw your site and was jealous that customers there could get the AP-450, even getting to try them out first. How long do you think it will be before they start selling the AP-450 in piano dealers in different states and/or on Amazon? Is it normal for Atlanta to get newer pianos first or was it because you wanted to get these models?

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#2054574 - 03/26/13 02:10 PM Re: Casio AP-450, Yamaha Arius YDP-142, or Casio PX-850 [Re: LoverOfGclef85]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2772
Loc: Atlanta, GA
We wanted to have them right away and changed our display area to feature them. One issue, just like with the other exclusive models from other brands, is that relatively few piano dealers have up-to-date websites. We're working on our own 450 demo. Like the other exclusives, no to Amazon.

Casio's own Celviano site includes dealers of the previous models with no distinction yet. I'm hoping they are working on that. Certainly new dealers are being added. I don't think the delay will be long, but I understand the previous expectations don't apply.

I'm not sure how Cunningham is set up for digitals, but they are a likely home for the models when they fit into their warehouse/showroom. I know they have other exclusives from competitive brands. Maybe you can gently push them for more info.
_________________________
Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta

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