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#2051081 - 03/19/13 10:25 PM Forgive me...but I must ask....
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 1977
Loc: Rocky Mountains
I appreciate this forum. I'm just doing some dreaming for the future. Been reading a bunch here. There is one question I have...
I have always loved Kawai's sound.
Are these newer models. Rather mostly the RX model. Is it actually better than the old KG series? I must include that the KG would be gone over by a dealer. Not just buy a KG from somebody to compare.
I know about the newer GX. Can't ask you to answer that.
Know there was a GS series in between.
Is there an older Kawai series that is truly considered special? Better? Classic?


Edited by rnaple (03/19/13 10:57 PM)
Edit Reason: typo
_________________________
Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon

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#2051088 - 03/19/13 10:52 PM Re: Forgive me...but I must ask.... [Re: rnaple]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 1876
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
In the 1980's Kawai grands often had very slow and sometimes heavy actions. Since then they have steadily improved the warmth, dynamic range, touch response and overall quality. The newer Kawai grands are very high quality musical instruments.
Good luck!
_________________________
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible

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#2051180 - 03/20/13 04:28 AM Re: Forgive me...but I must ask.... [Re: rnaple]
musicpassion Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 900
Loc: California, USA
I'm not aware of a special "vintage era" for Kawai grands. Even those pianos that do (or are percieved to) have very special eras in their manufacturing, I think it's the result of very substantial events (like the great depression or the company going bankrupt, or moving production to a different country).
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#2051285 - 03/20/13 10:49 AM Re: Forgive me...but I must ask.... [Re: rnaple]
PianoWorksATL Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2687
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: rnaple
Know there was a GS series in between.
Kawai has always had multiple irons in the fire. The GS series consisted of larger (over 6') models of higher quality. They are direct predecessors of the larger RX models. The smaller KG-1 & KG-2 were predecessors of the RX-1 & RX-2. When the RX-series was introduced, KG & GS went away.

So what matters for this discussion is size and age. If you are looking at larger KG-5, 6 or 7, it's a little different because of the overlap with the GS models...depending on era.

There are a few rare Kawai models that are even more exceptional...those that contributed to the SK series as predecessors. They are more individual models than a true series.

Once a piano reaches a certain age, only the individual condition matters. Tendencies of the brand/model are helpful to look out for, but YMMV.
_________________________
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PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
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#2051653 - 03/20/13 11:38 PM Re: Forgive me...but I must ask.... [Re: rnaple]
Dave B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 1894
Loc: Philadelphia area
Wasn't the KG series the highest selling piano world-wide for a number of years? (volume wise). I remember being surprised that the series was dropped.

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#2051682 - 03/21/13 12:48 AM Re: Forgive me...but I must ask.... [Re: Dave B]
PianoWorksATL Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2687
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: Dave B
Wasn't the KG series the highest selling piano world-wide for a number of years? (volume wise). I remember being surprised that the series was dropped.
I'm sure it was Kawai's best selling, but newer/different models replaced some in the line while others evolved. A couple of years ago, RX went Blak and now its GX.
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Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
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#2051702 - 03/21/13 01:49 AM Re: Forgive me...but I must ask.... [Re: rnaple]
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3919
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Quote:
Is there an older Kawai series that is truly considered special? Better? Classic?
One series, I am not sure which, had an "interesting" feature: for some strange reason (perhaps someone in the R&D dept. thought they would reduce key inertia or save money) there were no lead weights in the keys. Instead, there were extremely strong wippen support springs. The actions on these instruments are essentially impossible to regulate properly and the pianos have a very strange touch as a result.

So: Better? Uhmmmmm, not really. Classic? Perhaps, but not in a good way.

Thankfully, the company has come a very long way and they are now among industry leaders.
I would say that in this case, older is not better.
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#2051801 - 03/21/13 08:26 AM Re: Forgive me...but I must ask.... [Re: rnaple]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 1977
Loc: Rocky Mountains
I appreciate the opinions and experience.

Besides the fact that I have always loved Kawai's sound. Their taste in sound.

A big reason I am asking this is. I have heard many times that the classical people prefer Kawai. Beyond that, I ran across an online used dealer who claims that he has had teachers looking for a piano for their students who specifically come looking for a used KG.
_________________________
Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon

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#2051888 - 03/21/13 11:49 AM Re: Forgive me...but I must ask.... [Re: rnaple]
rada Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/07/06
Posts: 1124
Loc: pagosa springs,co
I have a K Kawai....now I am not a specialist in regards to the 'guts' of the piano but I have played for a long time and have never tired of this piano. [ is it a KG-2C]...I do think the action is a bit heavier but I think that helps build strength in the fingers. When I bought a newer piano the RX's [ at that time] didn't sound as good to my ear...something about double-stringing the upper register. I have some students that also have Kawai's and I usually think...wow this piano sounds great! I also had heard that "K' Kawai was better.

Also I bought my Kawai in 1980 and generally speaking people would be happy to take it off my hands anytime....but I can't let go.

rada

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#2052003 - 03/21/13 02:45 PM Re: Forgive me...but I must ask.... [Re: rnaple]
PianoWorksATL Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2687
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: rnaple
Beyond that, I ran across an online used dealer who claims that he has had teachers looking for a piano for their students who specifically come looking for a used KG.
We certainly know teachers who recommend completely based upon their comfort with certain brands & models, forgoing all others and even common sense competitors/alternatives. It's what they know and like.

There are many nice things about the older KG's but, in proper context, they were always a mid-level, production model made to be competitive in price. The last KG-2 we sold was a very sweet sounding instrument, medium-bright bass that was exceptionally round, bright treble but cleaner than the newer, mellower RX-2. The action was firmer than average, but everything was fundamentally very solid, even at 25+ years old. Condition absolutely matters most on an instrument that is used.
_________________________
Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta

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#2052036 - 03/21/13 04:05 PM Re: Forgive me...but I must ask.... [Re: rnaple]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14116
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:
We certainly know teachers who recommend completely based upon their comfort with certain brands & models, forgoing all others and even common sense competitors/alternatives. It's what they know and like.


Completely true: many buyers base their decision on buying something more current on a certain comfort level they or their teachers have long found true.

Others bring their consideration into the present day market and judge things from there - "comfort level" being the key word perhaps.

Outside testing and "comparing" everything else on market,the best approach IMHO would be to speak to dealers for those makes themselves.

Ideally they will speak with more knowledge and perspective on things, less ideally they will use the opportunity to sell you a new piano.

Which may or may "not" be better than what you're looking at.

Good luck!

Norbert smile
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Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2052267 - 03/22/13 04:29 AM Re: Forgive me...but I must ask.... [Re: Norbert]
Robert 45 Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/18/06
Posts: 1199
Loc: Auckland New Zealand
The nomenclature for Kawai grand pianos models in the 1980s is bewildering. For example the earliest KG grand pianos were listed in 1981 as, for example, KG-2D, KG-3D. Later, in 1986, these two models became KG-2E, KG-3E. Finally, in 1991, they were simply called KG-2 and KG-3. The higher quality Kawai GS grand pianos came into production in the early 1980s and these could be described as the early precursors of the Shigeru Kawai pianos.

The rare Kawai RX-A, a 6'6" grand, appeared in 1984 and was regarded as an instrument to rival the best pianos in the world.

Some models like the NX 40 and and NX 50 were produced for the Japanese market.

It was a period of rapid expansion for Kawai under the astute, yet visionary leadership of Shigeru, with huge investment in research and development and a new grand piano factory.

Although the pianos from this time are now aging instruments, a GS model in excellent condition could be still be a wonderful piano and available at a fraction of the price of the new Kawai grand pianos.

Robert.

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