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#2052274 - 03/22/13 05:17 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 321
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Last night I played until 1:30 and made some (unconclusive) comparissons between different AP EQ and blends I had already done: Concert "the twangy E" Grand 1; CG1/MellowG1 (layered 8:2 and then 2:8, and changing layer dynamics while moving from one to the other); CG2/MG2; MG1 alone.
Headphones on. String ress. up to 9, damper ress. up to 7.

Obviously, the clearest sound is CG1, but it lacks some sweetness in the central octave, no matter the voicing you choose. And, Jesus, that middle E kills me!
There goes the first blend, which I like a lot (CG1/MG1) but is a little confusing when the sustain is pressed or at forte passages (some weird rings and overtones that were already mentioned long before on this thread). Perhaps less string and damper ressonance would do the job, here. Playing without the pedal, highest string values are almost perfect, though.
MG1: the later into the night, the better it sounds. Just some less bass and bright1 voicing to avoid muddy chords.
CG2/MG2: mmmmmmmmm...Sweet and warm and dirty as can be, but again confusing. I'd swear it's from the previous sound generation (based in my ears). Dynamics are not that good, or detailed, overall volume is lower. I need to work more on this one!
If I have some time to kill this weekend, I threaten to perpetrate some recordings of the same piece on these different sounds.
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2052293 - 03/22/13 06:44 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Marko in Boston Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 889
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Hi dmd and mabraman, Ive been reading your past few posts. I don't believe I am experiencing any metallic or twangy sound from middle E or F on my ES7. In fact it's very pleasing and seems right on especially in GC1. I am listening with my Sennheiser HD380PRO through Mackie 402VLZ3 Mixer.

However, Not sure if any of this is related: Im on my third ES7. Yes third, please read:
The first ES7 I bought had to be returned immediately because middle E was dead. The key mechanics worked fine just no sound. Dealer swapped it out instantly. My second ES7 had several sound issues that seemed in line with what you are discussing. Seemed like it sounded great with headphones I and was enjoying it immensely, however I ended up returning it again for three reasons; metallic "tinny" sounds on some keys via on board speakers - not too bad but noticable, distortion from left speaker area even at mid volume - drove me crazy, and eventually sustain stopped working even with a second new pedal - that's when i figured I had another lemon. So, brought it back again. Dealer was amazingly accommodating and gave me a THIRD ES7 in the box without hesitation - great dealer! This last ES7 I had for a month and it seems flawless and quite different from the past two. The on board speakers seem much better than the past two; very clear, better tone, handles low end nicely even near full volume - almost can keep up with a CP300... I said almost. But like a CP300 you can feel the vibration/resonance in your fingers when playing. The sound via headphones even seems much clearer and powerful pushing the headphones even without the Mackie. So, maybe this last ES7 was off a different production run than the other two, a question for Kawai James perhaps.

Nevertheless, maybe my middle E and F might sound the same as yours and my ears are not picking up on it. So, if you want me to post some sounds to compare let me know and I can try to tap a few keys that you have in question. Im new at this (recording/posting) so please be patient if needed.


Edited by Marko in Boston (03/22/13 07:10 AM)
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2052301 - 03/22/13 06:55 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 321
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Thanks for the info, Marco, and good luck with your third one (wow).
Mine works well so far, though not perfectly if I think of some sounds. Speakers, as I said, seem like a good radio-casette from the 80s' to me. And there are some weird ressonances via speakers (I guess they are phasey sounds coming from the board), but this will be another chapter to write, at the risk of James calling me Mabra-moan wink .
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2052303 - 03/22/13 06:59 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Marko in Boston Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 889
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Ha! I think James has earned the right to goof on all of us for all the whining we do.
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2052312 - 03/22/13 07:29 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 321
Loc: Valencia, Spain
True, but we (specially you!) have all the right to complain. Our money is never deffective, is it?

By the way, what I hear is:

-CG1 : middle E natural (central scale) sounds more metallic than expected when playing mezzoforte, it has a twangy tone that might be desirable if ff played, but this is not the case. Adjacent notes sound fine, and so the other 87 as far as I know.
-Studio Grand 1: same, but for the central F and F#, now. As the whole tone of it is quite twangy (at default values) it isn't so evident, but it's there.
-Mellows: it doesn't happen, here, I can't recall any key sounding unbalanced in tone or volume all across the keybed.

And finally, as other mentioned earlier in this thread, there's an overall ringy feeling when you go at it full swing. My guess is, blame it on PHI sympathetic ressonance algorithms (so turning ressonances down should work).
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2052316 - 03/22/13 07:44 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Marko in Boston Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 889
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Have you messed around with temperament key setting for E and F just to see if tweaking it makes any difference.

Speaking of temperament, I actually like the Werkmeister preset. Has an honest genuine sound about it. I go to it often.
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2052332 - 03/22/13 08:23 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: Marko in Boston]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 321
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston
Have you messed around with temperament key setting for E and F just to see if tweaking it makes any difference.

Speaking of temperament, I actually like the Werkmeister preset. Has an honest genuine sound about it. I go to it often.


I entered the menu once, just to see if it worked smile
But thanks for your advice, I'll give it a try tonight.

With regards to wide stretch, mentioned some posts above, I find it interesting, perhaps a little too cold, but haven't played very much with it.
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2052404 - 03/22/13 11:13 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
pianomike Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 59
Hi marbraman, The E and F on my es7 sound fine,I know the note,s seemed more ringy and muddier befor I did the up grade on my foot pedal. I forget wat its called but is updated fom a 10 to a 12. Now all the notes on my piano are nice and clean sounding.

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#2052417 - 03/22/13 11:46 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Marko in Boston Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 889
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2052527 - 03/22/13 02:49 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
pianomike Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 59
Thanks Marko, I updated to v1.13 , I made a mistake and said 12,actually I had some one else update it for me since Im a little slow with computers. I still think this is one of the most natural sounding piano,s out there.

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#2052535 - 03/22/13 03:05 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 321
Loc: Valencia, Spain
It's not about an update, as I had already done so months ago. But thanks anyway.
And yes, it sounds well. I have just come from my music school, where I have practiced for an hour on an upright (guess the make?) which sounds way worse than ES7 and has sticky keys. Now, mine seems a Bossendorfer.
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2053083 - 03/23/13 06:20 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: Marko in Boston]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3648
Loc: Northern England.
Do Yamaha do upgrades for their digitals?
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2053106 - 03/23/13 07:07 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: peterws]
spanishbuddha Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2361
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: peterws
Do Yamaha do upgrades for their digitals?

It's OT, but yes.

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#2053354 - 03/24/13 09:14 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
cotte Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/05/13
Posts: 21
So, it seems that most of us agree on going with the mellow piano and a bright voicing other than using the concert grand with a mellow voice...

I used the CG sound for a couple months now and started toying with the mellow piano a week ago... now whenever I go to the CG patch sounds really cold to me.

I have tried layering 2 pianos but did not like the output.

Regarding some sound "unevenness" on certain keys... I feel that the whole octave or so around F2 to F3 sounds a bit dry compared to the rest of the "zones" especially on concert grand. I take it as part of the "character" of this particular Digital.

I love this piano.
_________________________
English is not my first language, please be patient!.

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#2082572 - 05/14/13 05:23 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Marko in Boston Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 889
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2084102 - 05/17/13 10:04 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
EtwasBewegter Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/08/13
Posts: 7
Hi, Kawai users! Excuse me for being a little bit off topic. I am in search of a good digital piano mostly for playing classical piano music and Kawai ES7 is at the top of my preference list. Additional pedals, solid piano stand and music stand for ES7 are also needed. So the total price here will be close to the price of Kawai CN 34. My question - how Es7 is compared to CN 34 in terms of piano sound and touch and is it really worth going for a portable es 7 at a price of full CN 34? Thank you!

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#2084131 - 05/17/13 11:42 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: EtwasBewegter]
Marko in Boston Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 889
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: EtwasBewegter
Hi, Kawai users! Excuse me for being a little bit off topic. I am in search of a good digital piano mostly for playing classical piano music and Kawai ES7 is at the top of my preference list. Additional pedals, solid piano stand and music stand for ES7 are also needed. So the total price here will be close to the price of Kawai CN 34. My question - how Es7 is compared to CN 34 in terms of piano sound and touch and is it really worth going for a portable es 7 at a price of full CN 34? Thank you!


Hi EtwasBewegter, Clink the link below. This thread might you decide which is best for you.

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2009953/Kawai%20CN34%20versus%20ES7.html
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2084693 - 05/18/13 11:21 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Marko in Boston Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 889
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts

Nice EP demo on the ES7

_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2112241 - 07/03/13 02:57 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Marko in Boston Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 889
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
ES7 Review by Keyboard magazine's editor Stephen Fortner:

_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2112244 - 07/03/13 03:00 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: Marko in Boston]
justpin Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 504
Loc: Holmes Chapel
Its an oddity that video...

Some as some places advertise the ES7 as haveing a wire type music stand, while others show it has a see through plastic music sheet stand

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#2112269 - 07/03/13 03:51 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
sandalholme Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 770
Loc: Dorset, UK
My ES7 came with the wire type music stand, the see through music stand came with the 2 pedal instrument stand.

Edit: the 3 pedal instrument stand


Edited by sandalholme (07/03/13 03:52 PM)

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#2114754 - 07/08/13 04:15 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
EtwasBewegter Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/08/13
Posts: 7
Hi! I have followed a good advice from this forum and now I am a happy owner of ES 7 ! My question is about sustain pedal. When leaving sound with pedal pressed ,it loses volume and decays unnaturally fast- 9-10 seconds and absolute silence. The same effect on AP lasts twice as long. So the question- аre there any settings to improve this. I can`t find them in the manual and it is rather strange as there are so many other precise settings for different effects. Thank you!

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#2128894 - 08/06/13 11:14 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: EtwasBewegter]
sandalholme Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 770
Loc: Dorset, UK
Rather than open a separate thread I thought I could use the ES7 thread. I think I know the answer, but just in case ....... Is it possible to have a default touch on the ES7 to say, Heavy? I know it can be adjusted within a particular piano configuration, but I would like to be able to set it to Heavy for use with a software piano without having to have Local Control On and using a particular ES7 piano - although I suppose turning the ES7's volume control right down is a work around.

Conversely, I also want to play and record a blend of software piano and an ES7 piano. Playing is no problem but how to record? To explain: the heavy touch and the weighting which is right for me (reduced bass volume, heightened treble volume) complements the software piano very well.

If I could always have a heavy touch and have the options of just the software piano or the blend, plus recording both these configurations, I would be happy. At least this week!

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#2128896 - 08/06/13 11:20 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3483
Loc: Pennsylvania
Can you clarify a few things?

When you say you don't want local control on, am I to understand that you don't want to use the built-in functionality to modify velocity curves in your software piano, which is almost certainly significantly more flexible and powerful than the settings in the hardware? Is there a particular reason for that?

I would think that the ES7's settings for touch sensitivity apply to the MIDI as well, but I don't know from personal experience. Perhaps someone who owns one can chime in.

As for recording a blend of the ES7 tone and that of a software piano, I can think of a few possibilities but none are particularly convenient. One thing you could do is play the piece, saving the MIDI using the onboard USB functionality and record the audio of the ES7 using your line-in or whatever. Then you could render the MIDI offline using your software piano. Finally you could mix the two. Sounds like a hassle, but it's the first thing that comes to mind.

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#2128911 - 08/06/13 11:53 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: sandalholme]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3648
Loc: Northern England.
"Conversely, I also want to play and record a blend of software piano and an ES7 piano. Playing is no problem but how to record?"

Your Piano voice and software voice will come out of different headphone sockets if you use headphones. One will exit the computer, the other will exit the piano. Get thee a "y" adapter to link `em. Audacity will do the rest, when the combined connection is fed into another computer . . . which you may or may not have.

I never thought o` that last bit. Sorry . . . crazy


Edited by peterws (08/06/13 11:54 AM)
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2129004 - 08/06/13 03:34 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: gvfarns]
sandalholme Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 770
Loc: Dorset, UK
Thanks for the responses. To clarify the local control point: the velocity curve in the s/w piano (True Keys, Italian Grand) isn't especially precise, in that it's a single curve that can be raised/lowered from the centre, so it primarily affects tone. The ES7, with its range from very light, light, normal, heavy, heavy+, offers a good range of alternative weights of touch. Using the ES7 alone, I prefer the normal setting, but with the Italian Grand - with or without blending the ES7 voice - a heavier touch feels better. It may be that changing the curve, sensitivity and dynamics in the Italian settings would produce the touch and sound I want, but it's a bit hit and miss. Maybe I need to experiment more. However, having adjusted the volume settings of the ES7 by knocking down the bass and upping the treble it improves the sound through the ES7 speakers - and it's still good through the domestic, relatively high end, system - and it also adds to the solidity of the Italian Grand sound, which is a bit thin to my ears. So blending the two does add quite a bit to the sound/my enjoyment. However, I would still like the option to have a heavier touch with local control off, as I should be able to record that via the usb in the ES7. (Currently a problem with usb recording which Kawai are looking into) Audacity could tidy up any shortcomings (to my ears) afterwards, but playing live, I prefer the mix.
Re recording: I have a 2nd pc in fact, but it's more than a bit dodgy. I am hoping that something clever can be done with a DAW. I have no experience of DAWS.

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#2129010 - 08/06/13 03:42 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: sandalholme]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3648
Loc: Northern England.
If I might be so bold - My software D4 (Pianoteq) sounds great, but feels different to playing my digital piano voice.

But so does an acoustic piano. . .a lot different, if the truth`s known. It feels like what I used to play before digitals were around; It may well be a good training ground for playing an actual piano . . .so you get the best o` both worlds.

One way of looking at it . .
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2129026 - 08/06/13 04:13 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: sandalholme]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3483
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: sandalholme
the velocity curve in the s/w piano (True Keys, Italian Grand) isn't especially precise, in that it's a single curve that can be raised/lowered from the centre, so it primarily affects tone.


Seems like I heard someone else complain about the TrueKeys velocity curve. It's hard for me to imagine what you are describing. Are you saying the line remains straight and you can only move it up and down, or that it bows in and out? Either way, it shouldn't affect tone except inasmuch as it also affects velocity. That is, the velocity curve takes the input MIDI and maps it to a different level, which is what is used to compute the velocity of the note. That in turn determines both the loudness and color. That's the same thing the hardware velocity curve should do as well. What I don't know is whether the hardware curve affects the MIDI levels that go out of the piano or whether those bypass the "touch curve."


Edited by gvfarns (08/06/13 04:14 PM)

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#2129039 - 08/06/13 04:34 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: sandalholme]
dmd Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1876
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: sandalholme
I also want to play and record a blend of software piano and an ES7 piano.


I run my software piano sound and my ES7 sound into a mixer and that mixer is attached to my computer and Audacity.

Works fine.
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2129280 - 08/07/13 03:57 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: gvfarns]
sandalholme Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 770
Loc: Dorset, UK
Re velocity curve: the curve bows up and down - up, more volume, brighter tone, downwards the reverse, but, and it may be psychological, the ES7 touch control seems to work differently. It feels like the difference between the weight of touch of different APs: yes, you have to hit the notes harder to get the same volume on a heavy touch AP vs a light touch AP, but, in theory at least, if each AP was constructed identically apart from the action weight, tone should be essentially the same. As I say, it may be a psychological effect - there are many discussions on other forums on this site re the interaction between the sound heard and the touch needed on APs. All I know is that normal ES7 touch feels good to me for ES7 sounds, heavy touch feels better for the Italian sound. The Italian velocity curve is quite small and really small shifts affect volume/tone, so I leave it at neutral and have set sensitivity and dynamics, plus the general tone control, to get the sound that suits me.

Don, interested in the mixer method. How does the mixer feed into the computer? I have no audio input so that's not an option, but a digital feed via usb could work.

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