Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum Tubby Strings

So for those of you who are getting sick of me from my previous posts on tuning a donated Wurlitzer 45" upright circa 1959 and adjusting the let-off regulating screw to fix a "crunching" sound and the key not depressing fully (about 1/4" short, I'm sorry but I have another question.

My lowest octave on the piano is tubby. I doubt very much the strings were ever replaced. They appear copper wound. But when you press the notes, they don't resonate and kind of thunk.

So I was reading on this forum and online that some say to loosen the tuning pin, and get a hammer and pound the string. I guess sometimes this causes dirt and dust to be freed up from the grooves in the coils and may help improve resonance.

I've also read that there's some kind of 'coiling' procedure where you make a loop and move it up and down, with the same net effect of removing dirt, debris.

I've also read to give the string an extra twist.

So my options are:

1. Live with the thunking (sounds pretty horrible below lowest F) and for walking base notes in that range, it's pretty bad.

2. Try one of the above methods.

I will never spend money to replace the strings, so I figure I'm torn between trying one of the methods above.

I guess the question is for the first option, loosening the tuning pin, and some how pounding the string. How do you do the pounding? Are you just hitting the string with a hammer while holding it? Are you putting it against something and hitting it?

And like I said in my previous post, yes this is turning into kind of a very fun learning exercise and hobby, and no I have no notions of making a Steinway out of a 55 year old Wurlitzer. But that technique to loosen and pound the string, then retune seems pretty straight forward.

Thoughts?

So whatever happened to the crunching sound? Did you look under the keys?

Don't hit the bass string with a hammer. Some people say that it can sometimes help to loosen the string and hit it with a stick made of wood. Don't hit it with a hammer.

The caveat here is that with any of these home remedies involving loosening a 50-year old bass string, it's possible that the string will break, usually at the tuning pin. This is especially likely to happen with the lowest notes. One solution is to look at it as a challenge - if you're not going to buy new strings, you'll be learning how to tie a splice!

HI Zeno:

Turning the Let-Off regulating screw about 1/2 to 3/4 a turn on those roughly 12 keys resolved it. Others say I might have a warped let-off rail, looking at that tomorrow.

Yeah, I just got back from the piano and I'm trying to decide if I can live with the tubby sound. It's not horrible at low-C and up, but not resonating either. I figured if it was as simple as loosening the tuning pin a bit, hitting the string carefully to loosen and let dirt/debris fall, it might be worth a try.

I'd *REALLY* like to have Kawai Studio Upright but that's not going to happen for a LOOOOOOONG time. I have a feeling this Wurlitzer and I are going to be together for the next four or five years or so. So if there are things I can do to improve it's sound quality and DIY, it's worth it. If I ruin it or make a mistake, I can get the equivalent in the future for $200-$400 if I have to.

Of course, I don't want to ruin it, but want to show it a little TLC.

Other things I noticed while tuning and fixing the crunching keys is that the hammers have grooves in them and need to be refurbished, some hammers are slightly off center, not striking all the unison strings in some cases. Maybe those are things I can look to adjust myself and improve the sound quality.

I'm taking the hammer reshaping SLOWLY because I don't know enough about Voicing them yet. But I may tackle that.

I guess I'm just looking at doing what I can, and staying away from the dangerous things I should do without help from a mentor.

It sure is a lot of fun! Sorry to sound like a cheerleader, but this is wicked fun learning how all the components work to create acoustic piano sounds!

bubba,

Is the bass bridge in order? No delamination? Not unglued from its apron? No serious cracks at the bridge pins?

If the problem is in the bass strings, in my (limited) experience, it's the dirt and corrosion that sits within the cavities between the windings and the core wire that causes the tubbiness, and the "running a loop" method is most effective to remove the dirt, because it flexes the string and actually opens up slight temporary spaces between the windings, for the dirt to fall out.

Do yourself a favor, if you haven't done so yet: buy Arthur A. Reblitz's book, "Piano Servicing, Tuning, and Rebuilding, for the Professional, the Student, and the Hobbyist" (second ed.)

Definitely get yourself a copy of Reblitz

Here is one thread with some good descriptions of the hammering (felt hammer, not hammer hammer), coiling and twisting methods:

https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubb...%20Anyone%20have%20success%20cleani.html

Bill Bremmers post 4th down on this thread also talks about cleaning with a dremmel or drill and soft wire wheel. Same idea in a way, the vibrations can loosen up the dirt and junk between the coils.

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/652502/1.html

I've got a few tubby strings on our old piano, but haven't gotten around to trying any of these on it yet other than cleaning the top surface with a drill / wire wheel. Once works lets up I'm planning to see what I can do.

There's always the risk of breaking a few any time you mess with old strings, but it may be worth it. You can always replace with "cheap" universal strings if you had to.

Rob

Your bass bridge apron could be broken. Do the high bass notes sound more tubby than the lower ones? If so, it is probably the apron.
Here's a link to a picture of a broken apron.
Photo 01 http://www.flickr.com/photos/93904899@N03/8543436532/in/photostream
and
Photo 02 http://www.flickr.com/photos/93904899@N03/8543437958/in/photostream
oh, and
Photo 03 http://www.flickr.com/photos/93904899@N03/8543440550/in/photostream/

BTW, If you don't have Reblitz's book, send me a PM.

All the best!
Sam

I had tubby notes starting from the begining of the base bridge and going down for the first six notes, i.e. from D3 down to A2. I replaced the strings - cost me £200 which is only £50 less than what I paid for the 1956 English 53" Brock.
New strings has helped a great deal but there is still a difference, i.e. when the copper wrapping gets thicker the sound is better - sort of less brassy.
So!! I read that the base bridge's position on an over-strung piano is problematic. I can vouch that this is true as I have access to an 1890 Broadwood upright which is straight strung.
The Broadwood is smaller than my Brock so the sound is not so mellow as mine but there is no change in the intonation through out the piano.
On this site there is a number of discusions on this topic and there is a mention of adding weight to the begining of the base bridge.
Big problem is that there is no detail on how and where to do this.
I hope somebody will comment on my proposed method which is:
Take a length of 30X30X2 mm angle iron which will fit on the back of the sound board to match up with that length of base bridge which is available between two of the vertical battens which brace the sound board.
On the vertical leg of the angle drill (say) three holes so that the angle may be screwed to the back of the bridge.
On the horizontal leg there will be holes space at (say) 30mm centers. These holes will be used to add weights as required by aural testing!!!!!!