Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Project: 120-year-old 'free' Weber upright - lots of pics!

Fish, I like your approach to this, and i think you got yourself a fine piano.

Its funny, we seem to be on parallel journeys here Ours also needed a #1 tip and is 80c flat. Hopefully work will let up soon and I can get back to work on ours.

I have the same reaction to your pic that I often have at home, it looks so funny to see these old pianos plugged in to a laptop as if they have an OBDII port for diagnostics

Keep up the good work!

Rob

Fishbulb - be careful of that Rob guy. He doesn't peddle smoke, but he has a mirror business!



(Click on his link)

BTW how do you like the CAD U37? Was debating between that and shelling out for a dual usb pre amp and a couple of MXL 990s. It seems silly to spend that much on recording gear now (although I could use them for other things too) but I was wondering how well the all in one solution like this really works.

Rob

I really like the way the music desk folds out of the top board, sorta like an old player piano, instead of flipping up like most modern pianos.

I had the opportunity to buy an old Seiler art-case upright a few months ago when I was looking. I passed it up because I didn't want an old upright at the time. It still played, with an absolutely gorgeous mellow European tone (although slightly tubby), but if I were to spruce it up like you did with your Weber, it would've been a gorgeous instrument.

Is black its original color? I haven't seen many ornate black uprights of that period..
usually stained brown..

Thanks!



Heh I know the feeling; although, I have never owned a car new enough to have an OBDII port ;-)



Rob's piano is a very interesting one; even though it was hacked up for the mirror retrofit, it looks like they did a very good job of it - and it's still a Steinway!



Well, I haven't recorded with it yet, so I'm not really the best one to ask I think. It's great for tuning though. One of my friends who's more into gear than I recommended it as a good budget mic. My only caveat with it would be that I doubt it could withstand a lot of banging around since the case and stand are plastic. If you treat it nice though (or wrap the case in 50 layers of duct tape) it should be fine.



Thanks! I like it too. That was supposedly a very common feature of late Victorian uprights.



Yep, it's definitely original unless they redid the entire cabinet inside and out, up and down. I've seen no evidence of any refinishing so far. This piano was dated to 1894 according to some notes I have from my parents' tuner, and the serial number info I have supports that. This is about when ebonized (black) finishes were introduced, because they were cheaper to apply than wood finishes. Overall, this was probably a mid-level piano (for Weber anyway, which was a high-end company). It was probably made after the panic of 1893, since it has the less-expensive black ebonized finish and the simplified carvings instead of the full cut-out carvings.

There is a great amount of detail about this in Martha Taylor's article on upright cabinet styles.

I have also been writing an article for Wikipedia on the Weber piano company (none had existed yet). Weber really has an interesting story, complete with illegitimate children, pistol-brandishing playboys, suicides, legal battles, and declaring oneself insane to avoid creditors.

The working draft is located here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip...tion/Weber_of_New_York_%28piano_maker%29

Hey now! Just because my plan for world domination begins with convincing everyone to buy old uprights and trying to... Oh wait. That's supposed to be a secret. Never mind!

Rob

I like them! especially the fancy ornate ones from the 1880s period ....

I love this. Absolutely beautiful. Thanks for sharing your pictures and journey - it's inspiring! One day when I have the time and money to invest I'd love to have a beautiful old piano such as yours. Enjoy!!

Minor update...

Pictures of the action rack I've been building, as promised.

First, I cut some mortises by hand with my chisels. Wish I had a router and a drill press, or even better-quality chisels, but my workshop space is pretty limited.



Completed four mortises:



Cut the other pieces of wood, sanded rough spots, glued everything, and let each side of the rack dry overnight. Elmers Wood Glue, nothing fancy. All of the wood pieces are 24 inches long, and the spacer blocks are 3.5 inches square. This took two nights, since I only have enough clamps to hold one side of the rack at a time.



Drilling some counter sinks for the 4-inch lag bolts with a forstner bit:



Lag bolts installed:



Then there was the hardware. This took me several attempts to get right. First, the bolts were to short. Then the washers were too big. Then the new washers were too small. Luckily I have a good hardware store close by. This is the bottom attachment:



This is the top attachment. On all four attachments, there are nylon spacers around the threads of the bolts, so the action frame doesn't touch anything but rubber and nylon.



And this is the complete rack. There are cork pads glued underneath of each side piece to protect the dining room table (or whatever surface the rack rests upon.)



The good things about this rack: extremely stable, provides plenty of room to work below the stickers, and inexpensive to construct (especially if you already have some leftover 2"x4"s lying around.) The only major downside with this rack is that due to the weight it is difficult to move with the action attached by yourself - you definitely need two people to move the action around.

Very Nice!! Conveniently one of my next projects. Thanks for figuring it out

Rob

Nice rack, fish!

Wait, that didn't come out quite right...

Thanks guys. Made a lot of progress yesterday.

Found a couple more signatures, on key #1.

Looks like Sprigoode???


And on the bottom of the key, Deitz:


I also got started on the buffing project. Hard work, but it pays off. Left side is unpolished, right side has been buffed with Cory Coconut Wood Cleaner.


Now that I've got the action rack done, I had plenty of room to easily remove all of the keys. As I suspected, it's disgusting under there.




The balance rail and front rail punchings are pretty disintegrated.


The old punchings were handily removed using the punching lifter tool I got from VandaKing.com for $6.59. The tool is definitely worth it (it saves a ton of time both removing old punchings and sliding down the new ones) but it needed some modification. As shown in the pictures, I sharpened the two lower "teeth" so that the tool could actually slide under the paper punchings at the bottom of the stack. The tool is made of some tough steel. To sharpen the teeth, I actually had to clamp a metal file in a vice and then push the punching lifter tool back and forth against the file. Hard work, but the tool is actually effective. Without that modification, it's basically useless.




The pins are a bit worn (this is in the center of the keybed), but not at all rusty and still very smooth. Looks like I'll be able to get a lot more use out of them.




This is after a lot of vacuuming and detailing with Cory Harmony Detailing Oil. From what I can tell, someone spilled red wine in the piano at some point, I think on both sides of the keybed. When I polished this area, the rag came off purple like a wine stain, and not black like the finish. Hmm...


Now is a good time to talk about glue. Having used hot hide glue in the past, frankly, I think it smells like the devil's personal outhouse. Therfore, fish glue! Usable at room temperature, similar properties to hide glue (it can be 'reversed'), and it doesn't smell. Unless you live in a jungle, where fish glue probably wouldn't work quite as well due to its lower resistance to humidity, it is a much better choice for most woodworking applications where hide glue would have been used. Plus, unlike hide glue, fish glue is very unlikely to have bovine spongiform encephalopathy prions in it. ;-) I got both bottles from Lee Valley Tools.


Finally, here is the keybed with fresh felts and paper punchings, ready to go!


Currently, I'm working on replacing some of the smaller felt pieces that are part of the trapwork, and cleaning and polishing up everything, before I put the keys and action back in.

Fish, I wouldn't use any kind of oil inside the case. Others' opinions might differ, but I would be concerned about it migrating to someplace I didn't intend for it to go that might irreparably damage the piano.

As for glue, as long as it's wood glue, go for it.

Looking great so far.

I'm confused (which is nothing new). Did you already install new paper punchings, without the keys installed?

Yep, there are paper punchings under everything. To start out I just measured the old punching stacks with a digital caliper, and then selected a new punching thickness that a made a new stack that was about the same size. So everything is the same from key to key right now.

Key dip came out pretty good, but key height is a little uneven. So, the balance rail punchings will need to be adjusted after I break them in by playing.

Fishbulb - This is a very interesting thread. I am enjoying it and learning a lot. Your photos are great! I do hope you plan to keep them comming.

Congratulations to such an interesting undertaking!

In spite of all the nay-sayers, such project has obviously its onw rewards.

Enjoy the process!

Norbert

I just found this thread, absolutely fabulous!