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#2052769 - 03/23/13 01:13 AM Fried Chicken Syndrome
woodfab Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 381
Loc: Stoneham, MA
Well I just installed 240 strings and tuning pins, which been working out just fine.

I had ten more bass strings to go then, my daughter walks in and says "dad, would you like a piece of fried chicken" I said "yes thanks"

Well I had on cotton gloves for the stringing job.

Guess what happened next?

I put the next string in and thought "why is the pin so loose and jumpy?"

Then I realized, "OH CRAP" OIL!

Any ideas what I should now?
_________________________
Dan (Piano Tinkerer)

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#2052803 - 03/23/13 04:35 AM Re: Fried Chicken Syndrome [Re: woodfab]
miscrms Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/29/12
Posts: 187
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Best thing you can do is get some waffles to go with that chicken wink

Rob
_________________________
1874 Steinway Upright "Franken" Stein

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#2052859 - 03/23/13 09:09 AM Re: Fried Chicken Syndrome [Re: woodfab]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4223
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada

Methyl Hydrate is a good cleaner.
_________________________
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www.silverwoodpianos.com
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http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#2052908 - 03/23/13 11:14 AM Re: Fried Chicken Syndrome [Re: woodfab]
Roy Rodgers Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 347
Loc: Ranger, Texas
My worry would be any cleaner thinning the oil enough to let it migrate to near by pins.
_________________________
Tuning and repairing pianos since 1981 in Ranger, Tx. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Roys-Piano-Service/173273022711505

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#2052941 - 03/23/13 12:46 PM Re: Fried Chicken Syndrome [Re: woodfab]
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3919
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: woodfab
Well I just installed 240 strings and tuning pins, which been working out just fine.
I had ten more bass strings to go then, my daughter walks in ...
Are you re-stringing a Bösendorfer Imperial Grand? Or are you stringing us along, or??? wink
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#2052964 - 03/23/13 02:11 PM Re: Fried Chicken Syndrome [Re: woodfab]
woodfab Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 381
Loc: Stoneham, MA
Yes I'm serious.

After I ate the chicken I drove the next pin in not realizing I got oil on my gloves.

I then went to put some tension on the string I found the pin was unbelievably jumpy and sounded like a duck call.

My wife has been saying that fried food is no good for me.



Edited by woodfab (03/23/13 02:15 PM)
_________________________
Dan (Piano Tinkerer)

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#2053002 - 03/23/13 03:34 PM Re: Fried Chicken Syndrome [Re: woodfab]
daniokeeper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 1099
Loc: PA
It's only one pin?

You could try the methyl hydrate.

But if you are afraid that might help the oil migrate as was posted above, you could just try using powdered rosin on the pin and see if that corrects the problem.

If worse come to worse, you could just drill this one hole out, insert a plug from pinblock material, and then re-drill the hole for the pin.


Edited by daniokeeper (03/23/13 03:36 PM)
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Piano Tuning & Repair
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#2053017 - 03/23/13 03:45 PM Re: Fried Chicken Syndrome [Re: woodfab]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4223
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada

I wouldn’t worry too much about migration. Methyl evaporates so quickly it will draw the oil away from the material and leave most on the rag or Q tip.

It is only when using a brush the oil will be driven deeper into the materials. The idea is the swab rather than scrub.
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
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"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#2053062 - 03/23/13 05:51 PM Re: Fried Chicken Syndrome [Re: woodfab]
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3919
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: woodfab
Yes I'm serious.
In my post I was asking if you were serious about 240 strings done, 10 to go. That would be 250 strings. Very, very few pianos have that many, certainly not a baby grand. The correct number is probably around 190.
_________________________
Jurgen Goering
Piano Forte Supply
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#2053075 - 03/23/13 06:10 PM Re: Fried Chicken Syndrome [Re: woodfab]
Roy Rodgers Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 347
Loc: Ranger, Texas
Now I'll have to go count strings on a couple og the baby grands I have.

Darn math.
_________________________
Tuning and repairing pianos since 1981 in Ranger, Tx. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Roys-Piano-Service/173273022711505

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#2053077 - 03/23/13 06:12 PM Re: Fried Chicken Syndrome [Re: Supply]
Chris Leslie Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/11
Posts: 709
Loc: Canberra, ACT, Australia
Originally Posted By: Supply
Originally Posted By: woodfab
Yes I'm serious.
In my post I was asking if you were serious about 240 strings done, 10 to go. That would be 250 strings. Very, very few pianos have that many, certainly not a baby grand. The correct number is probably around 190.

My math may have a mistake but I figure 231 pins from the photo. 27 bass with 4 trichords, the remainder 61 trichords.
_________________________
Chris Leslie
Piano technician
http://www.chrisleslie.com.au

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#2053079 - 03/23/13 06:13 PM Re: Fried Chicken Syndrome [Re: woodfab]
accordeur Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1223
Loc: Qubec, Canada
Your piano has 228 strings.
_________________________
Jean Poulin

Musician, Tuner and Technician

www.actionpiano.ca

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#2053114 - 03/23/13 07:26 PM Re: Fried Chicken Syndrome [Re: woodfab]
woodfab Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 381
Loc: Stoneham, MA
228 On this 5' 3" Kimball

Well should I do something now Or wait to see if it hold good enough?


Edited by woodfab (03/24/13 02:45 PM)
_________________________
Dan (Piano Tinkerer)

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#2053120 - 03/23/13 07:35 PM Re: Fried Chicken Syndrome [Re: woodfab]
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21813
Loc: Oakland
Are you trying to get any of us to admit we have done something like this?
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#2053135 - 03/23/13 08:03 PM Re: Fried Chicken Syndrome [Re: woodfab]
daniokeeper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 1099
Loc: PA
Btw, from the pic you provided, it looks like you do nice, neat, professional work smile

(Other than the fried chicken wink smile )
_________________________
Joe Gumbosky
Piano Tuning & Repair
www.tinyurl.com/tunerjoe
(semi-retired)

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#2053148 - 03/23/13 08:16 PM Re: Fried Chicken Syndrome [Re: woodfab]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
It's the new Kimbal-KFC. A finger lickin' good piano.

Methyl Hydrate is the logical choice.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2053154 - 03/23/13 08:25 PM Re: Fried Chicken Syndrome [Re: woodfab]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 2337
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
You could use denatured alcohol dribbled into the hole with an eye dropper while a clean rag is stuffed in to slide back and forth to absorb the oil. Then use thin super glue to tighten the hole back up since removing the pin will loosen the fit. Of course don't dribble any on any finished surfaces!
_________________________
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible

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#2053191 - 03/23/13 10:12 PM Re: Fried Chicken Syndrome [Re: woodfab]
Ed Foote Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 1228
Loc: Tennessee
Greetings,
What I would do would be to pull the pin, then take a an absorbent material like a twisted strip of flannel that fits snugly in the hole, and with it wetted with lacquer thinner on the leading end, I would pull it through the hole so that the first three or four inches of soaked thinner are followed by a foot or so of dry flannel. Clean the pin, perhaps dust with rosin, or not. and redrive the pin. Most of the oil from the gloves is on the pin, you didn't put enough down the hole to soak the pinblock for the length of the pin. There is not enough to migrate and infect the rest of the block.

The worst case scenario is to drill a 3/8 hole through the block, glue in a pair of Falconwood or Delignite plugs, and red rill. It has happened to a lot of us and isn't really a big deal. We bought a D in 1980 at the school. Two years later, A1 would't hold. Upon removal, it was found that the hole in the block was oval because the hole had been drilled hard next to the plate and the pin had been held by metal on metal for the first year or so before it began grinding some torque away.

No way was I going to risk a $12 bass string (that is what Mapes was charging then), on an iffy pin, again, so I plugged it and repined. It held for 20 years, and was still tight when the block was replaced.

I do my best work when I don't eat when stringing, or talk, or drink coffee, or make appointments, or anything but

wire/cut/feed/bend/twist/hammer/lift/hammer/chip/wire/cut/feed/bend/twist/hammer/lift/hammer/chip/wire/cut/feed/bend/twist/hammer/lift/hammer/chip/wire/cut/feed/bend/twist/hammer/lift/hammer/chip/wire/cut/feed/bend/twist/hammer/lift/hammer/chip/wire/cut/feed/bend/twist/hammer/lift/hammer/chip/

The older I get, the more I appreciate the opportunity to have several hours in which I can just work, uninterruptedly. Stringing is perhaps the most beautiful escape in my shop, as the pattern is clear, Measurable progress comes with steadily mounting tension, fresh felt, polished bits and pieces, strings pitched for the first time, the count of pins, holes, and hitches lock-stepping across the afternoon, the reward for good procedure and technique immediate in the form of job satisfaction with every pin. There is a feeling of wealth that comes from coils of wire and bass strings waiting next to the box of tuning pins as they get pounded into their eternal life.

Just no way to work the fried chicken into it, sorry.
Regards,

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#2053203 - 03/23/13 10:53 PM Re: Fried Chicken Syndrome [Re: woodfab]
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21813
Loc: Oakland
Red rill! Repined! Interesting spellchecker choices!
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#2053204 - 03/23/13 11:07 PM Re: Fried Chicken Syndrome [Re: woodfab]
Blues beater Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/13
Posts: 133
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
Originally Posted By: woodfab
Well I just installed 240 strings and tuning pins, which been working out just fine.

I had ten more bass strings to go then, my daughter walks in and says "dad, would you like a piece of fried chicken" I said "yes thanks"

Well I had on cotton gloves for the stringing job.

Guess what happened next?

I put the next string in and thought "why is the pin so loose and jumpy?"

Then I realized, "OH CRAP" OIL!

Any ideas what I should now?


I can't speak as a pro piano tech because I am strictly a DIYer, but I can speak from 35 years in the automotive repair industry. We frequently have to degrease all kinds of things. Sit in somebody's fuzzy tan cloth seats and you didn't realize there was a wad of black wheel bearing grease on your pants? Ooooops! "Brake cleaning' solvent" will degrease damn near anything. I prefer the less toxic newer formula that is hexane based over the old toxic perchloroethelyne (sp??) formula. I would flood the hole with brake cleaner and blow it out with compressed air and it will be bone-dry afterwards. If you really want to worry about it, do that twice. Oil sinks more deeply and quickly into soft cloth upholstery than into wood and brake cleaner leaves not a trace.

Don't panic.


Edited by Blues beater (03/24/13 12:13 AM)
Edit Reason: mistake
_________________________
Don, playing the blues in Austin, Texas on a 48" family heirloom Steinway upright, 100 year old 54" Weber upright, and unknown make turn of the century 54" upright -- says "Whittier NY" on the plate

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#2053223 - 03/23/13 11:44 PM Re: Fried Chicken Syndrome [Re: woodfab]
Dave B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 1974
Loc: Philadelphia area
Try a new tuning pin.

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#2053251 - 03/24/13 01:08 AM Re: Fried Chicken Syndrome [Re: woodfab]
TunerJeff Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 493
Loc: Oregon Coast
I'd follow Ed's suggestion, whatever solvent/cleaner you choose. Dragging a cloth through the tuning-pin hole with a little cleaner/solvent, but dragging a lot of clean material after it, makes the most sense.
I actually like the brake-cleaner suggestion, for that matter. Stuff will eat the oil instantly, and does dry very quickly and completely.

1. Pull the pin
2. REPLACE the tuning-pin bushing!
With any luck, a lot of your oil will have pulled off into the pin-bushing. You don't want to drive a clean pin back through that one.
3. Check your remaining tuning pins with a micrometer, too. Select the largest one of that size (...they ain't the same, if you have not done this before).
You may get a few thousands larger, and the little extra insurance can't hurt. Minimum? Clean the old one really really really well.
4. Avoid fried foods!

Good-luck, sir!
The world will continue to rotate,
don't worry!
_________________________
Jeffrey T. Hickey, RPT
Oregon Coast Piano Services
TunerJeff440@aol.com

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#2053332 - 03/24/13 08:21 AM Re: Fried Chicken Syndrome [Re: woodfab]
otherside Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/27/04
Posts: 145
How about wiping it away with a bit of red wine smile

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#2053474 - 03/24/13 01:13 PM Re: Fried Chicken Syndrome [Re: woodfab]
Nash. Piano Rescue Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/09
Posts: 386
Loc: East Nashville,TN Scottsville...
You don't want to thin the oil you want to remove the oil completely from the wood or whatever. a little acetone and cat litter or oil-dry which is mashed up will suck oil right out of wood. The key is when using other things the object is not to press the contaminant deeper into the wood pores
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East Nashville
Bowling Green, KY
Scottsville KY.
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Putting inspiration in the hands of area musicians
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#2053539 - 03/24/13 03:23 PM Re: Fried Chicken Syndrome [Re: woodfab]
woodfab Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 381
Loc: Stoneham, MA
Thanks guys for all the advice!

Rob suggested to get waffles to go with that chicken. I think the sticky syrup could make matters worse.

I think what I'll do is reenact the pin mishap.

I have a piece of the same pin-block mtrl. I'll dill about four holes, eat some Deli-Works fried chicken, and then drive four pins in.

I'll then try some of the ideas you guys came up with.

I figure it's better to practice a little before I attempt it on the piano.







Edited by woodfab (03/24/13 04:27 PM)
_________________________
Dan (Piano Tinkerer)

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#2053592 - 03/24/13 05:09 PM Re: Fried Chicken Syndrome [Re: Ed Foote]
RestorerPhil Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/26/12
Posts: 212
Loc: Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: Ed Foote
The older I get, the more I appreciate the opportunity to have several hours in which I can just work, uninterruptedly. Stringing is perhaps the most beautiful escape in my shop, as the pattern is clear, Measurable progress comes with steadily mounting tension, fresh felt, polished bits and pieces, strings pitched for the first time, the count of pins, holes, and hitches lock-stepping across the afternoon, the reward for good procedure and technique immediate in the form of job satisfaction with every pin. There is a feeling of wealth that comes from coils of wire and bass strings waiting next to the box of tuning pins as they get pounded into their eternal life.


Now, if that ain't poetry, I've never been to Tennessee and neither has Ed Foote! And the wealth effect? Yep, exactly! A fresh box of new pins is like a bound treasure when you open it.

(I better quit or I may tear up.) cry
_________________________
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Established 1977
Tuning, Concert Maintenance,
Rebuilding & Restoration

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#2053614 - 03/24/13 05:58 PM Re: Fried Chicken Syndrome [Re: woodfab]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: woodfab
Thanks guys for all the advice!

Rob suggested to get waffles to go with that chicken. I think the sticky syrup could make matters worse.

I think what I'll do is reenact the pin mishap.

I have a piece of the same pin-block mtrl. I'll dill about four holes, eat some Deli-Works fried chicken, and then drive four pins in.

I'll then try some of the ideas you guys came up with.

I figure it's better to practice a little before I attempt it on the piano.







I dont know what I would do, but once the grease dissolved and cleaned, you can use a little rosin, dipping the tuning pin in powder, or diluted rosin, or swabbing (?) the hole with the rosin so to favor braking of the pin in wood (it is supposed to help when the tuning pin's thread will wear out).

However, I believe that most of the grip, ideally, is due to wood resiliency, and fiber orientation , against a tuning pin slightly deformed by string tension and human manipulation (hence the much better feel of maple or mixed wood blocks against Delignit).



Edited by Olek (03/24/13 05:59 PM)
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#2053643 - 03/24/13 07:03 PM Re: Fried Chicken Syndrome [Re: RestorerPhil]
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2445
Loc: Sandy Eggo, California
Originally Posted By: RestorerPhil
Originally Posted By: Ed Foote
The older I get, the more I appreciate the opportunity to have several hours in which I can just work, uninterruptedly. Stringing is perhaps the most beautiful escape in my shop, as the pattern is clear, Measurable progress comes with steadily mounting tension, fresh felt, polished bits and pieces, strings pitched for the first time, the count of pins, holes, and hitches lock-stepping across the afternoon, the reward for good procedure and technique immediate in the form of job satisfaction with every pin. There is a feeling of wealth that comes from coils of wire and bass strings waiting next to the box of tuning pins as they get pounded into their eternal life.


Now, if that ain't poetry, I've never been to Tennessee and neither has Ed Foote! And the wealth effect? Yep, exactly! A fresh box of new pins is like a bound treasure when you open it.

(I better quit or I may tear up.) cry


I don't know about that. The last box of pins I opened did this as soon as I set it down:



laugh

Phil, didn't you build a new shop not too long ago? I may have missed it, but i never saw the finished product.
_________________________
Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
[url=www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind]www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind[/url]

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#2053686 - 03/24/13 08:20 PM Re: Fried Chicken Syndrome [Re: OperaTenor]
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21813
Loc: Oakland
I am careful to tape up boxes of tuning pins before they fall apart.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#2053716 - 03/24/13 09:50 PM Re: Fried Chicken Syndrome [Re: woodfab]
accordeur Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1223
Loc: Qubec, Canada
It's pretty obvious that that box of pins was purposely ripped apart, just for fun.

If not you must of let it down REAL hard.

I don't know.
_________________________
Jean Poulin

Musician, Tuner and Technician

www.actionpiano.ca

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