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#2052779 - 03/23/13 02:05 AM How to mute the temperament octave
cliffie Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/17/12
Posts: 10
I hope I said that correct. I live in the middle of no where (nearest pro tuner is at least 2 1/2 hrs away)so I'll try a little tuning on a small player piano. I've played violin and banjo so the basics of tuning I'm familiar with. I took everyone's advice and got a $60 hammer, not an el cheapo. Fits well. Have felt mute and 4 wedges. The problem is that the "temperament" octave is over strung with the lower 1/3 keys so access is blocked for the felt below the keys. Do I just press it through the lower strings and then onto those I need to mute? I can move the ukelano bar and maybe mute above the keys but will this suffice for my amateur tuning efforts? The strings are too close to the sound board for wedges. Thanks for any advice guys.

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#2052788 - 03/23/13 03:25 AM Re: How to mute the temperament octave [Re: cliffie]
Mark Davis Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/10/08
Posts: 665
Don Mannino's post is very helpful on the matter,

Originally Posted By: KawaiDon
Londonderry,

I think it is best to lean the action back and strip-mute the entire piano. One strip in the bass, extra felt hanging out the bass side. Another strip in the treble, hanging out at the end of the dampers.

Tune the temperament, then octaves down to the bass. Work back up on the bass unisons to the temperament, then tune octaves to the top. Use normal mutes or Papps mute above the dampers, then tune unisons back down, pulling the strip mute out as you go.

I learned this from a great Irish tuner, by the way, who taught me a lot when I was starting out down in San Diego.
_________________________
Mark Davis
Piano Tuner & Technician

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#2052798 - 03/23/13 04:15 AM Re: How to mute the temperament octave [Re: cliffie]
David Jenson Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 2199
Loc: Maine
Are you trying to mute the strings by going below the keybed?
_________________________
David L. Jenson
Tuning - Repairs - Refurbishing
Jenson's Piano Service
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#2052885 - 03/23/13 10:16 AM Re: How to mute the temperament octave [Re: cliffie]
cliffie Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/17/12
Posts: 10
I thought by going below the keybed it would be better as it would mute more in the middle of each string there by having more of a damping effect on the strings, If I go above the keys there is very little string length to the bridge and I don't know how effective any damping might be on that little distance vs the full length of the string.

"Lean the action back"? I'm afraid that is way beyond me as I have no idea how to do it or what it means on this little player piano.

I'm just trying to get "in the ball park" so to speak with tuning as some of the string are WAAAAY out but some are OK Most are from what I can see on Tunelab down by 10 to 15 cents.

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#2054255 - 03/25/13 09:21 PM Re: How to mute the temperament octave [Re: cliffie]
David Jenson Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 2199
Loc: Maine
Muting above the dampers will shut off extraneous sound just fine. That's the usual procedure, and that will avoid the overstrung problems you are encountering.

Some nursery school children muted their piano with modeling clay, and they did it above the damper line. It was VERY effective!
_________________________
David L. Jenson
Tuning - Repairs - Refurbishing
Jenson's Piano Service
-----

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#2054268 - 03/25/13 09:46 PM Re: How to mute the temperament octave [Re: cliffie]
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21918
Loc: Oakland
I have never seen a vertical piano with dampers below the hammers, player or not, where the temperament area could not be muted from above. At worst, you have to move a bit of the player mechanism out of the way. There are usually instructions on how to do it somewhere on the piano.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#2054577 - 03/26/13 02:20 PM Re: How to mute the temperament octave [Re: cliffie]
miscrms Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/29/12
Posts: 187
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
It may be worth noting that as I think you said you're using tunelab somewhere else, its usually not necessary (and maybe not desirable) to mute more than one note at a time. My understanding is that tunelab works best when you tune chromatically from bottom top, tuning each set of unisons as you go. I think this is particularly true when you are doing a pitch raise. Tuning that way it would seem easier to me just to use wedge mutes, though you may still have the same access issues. At least if you use the ones with the wire handles it might help you get them stuck down in there if access is tricky.

A picture might help folks visualize what you are trying to do.

Rob
_________________________
1874 Steinway Upright "Franken" Stein

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#2054583 - 03/26/13 02:50 PM Re: How to mute the temperament octave [Re: cliffie]
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3919
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Quote:
I live in the middle of no where (nearest pro tuner is at least 2 1/2 hrs away)so I'll try a little tuning on a small player piano.
Relative remoteness in itself does not mean that you can't have your piano professionally tuned. Unless there are no people living within 2+ hours around you, the chances are there is a piano tuner who services your area. Many tuners do some itinerant work, essentially lining up remote clients and making a trip of it, servicing a number of remote locations. For professional help, call the closest tuner and ask. If he does not service your area, ask who does.
_________________________
Jurgen Goering
Piano Forte Supply
www.pianofortesupply.com

Piattino Caster Cups distributor

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#2054665 - 03/26/13 05:08 PM Re: How to mute the temperament octave [Re: cliffie]
miscrms Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/29/12
Posts: 187
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
I don't know, Page, AZ is pretty close to the middle of nowhere wink You might try calling local churches or schools and see who does their tunings. You might be able to piggyback on with them when their tuner comes up from Flag or wherever for the day.

Rob
_________________________
1874 Steinway Upright "Franken" Stein

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#2054708 - 03/26/13 06:09 PM Re: How to mute the temperament octave [Re: Supply]
AndyJ Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/29/12
Posts: 219
Loc: Near Dayton, Ohio USA
Originally Posted By: Supply
Quote:
I live in the middle of no where (nearest pro tuner is at least 2 1/2 hrs away)so I'll try a little tuning on a small player piano.
Relative remoteness in itself does not mean that you can't have your piano professionally tuned. Unless there are no people living within 2+ hours around you, the chances are there is a piano tuner who services your area. Many tuners do some itinerant work, essentially lining up remote clients and making a trip of it, servicing a number of remote locations. For professional help, call the closest tuner and ask. If he does not service your area, ask who does.

Jurgen,

Page, Arizona is in the Four Corners area on the northwest corner of the Navajo reservation and many hours' drive from anywhere likely to have a piano tuner. People do live around there but they're widely scattered and a great many of them are far too poor to pay someone to tune a piano. Still, I suppose there are some pianos around so maybe somebody makes the trek from time to time.

Google Maps says it's 3 hours from Flagstaff, Arizona, and over 4 hours from Las Vegas, Nevada, and Durango, Colorado. Google is commendably conservative in their driving-time estimates as a rule, but in that area, you really might take that long to get there.

Beautiful country but not a great place to get services....

Andy

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#2054908 - 03/27/13 12:30 AM Re: How to mute the temperament octave [Re: cliffie]
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3919
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
I am not saying don't try to tune your piano (although in your particular case you are facing some challenges that sound fairly daunting). I am saying that living a few hours away from a technician does not mean that you are on your own.

I am not familiar with your specific geography of course. I was speaking in general terms. I know a number of technicians who plan a tuning trip of a week or more, covering many miles, visiting quite remote areas.

I have some remote clients myself. I have been to Baffin Island twice to tune pianos, and in other places across the Canadian high arctic. It is as much an adventure as it is a paying gig. There are very few places where you have pianos but no technicians who swing by every once in a while.
_________________________
Jurgen Goering
Piano Forte Supply
www.pianofortesupply.com

Piattino Caster Cups distributor

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