Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum Coming between student and parent?

Hi,

I have two young students ( brothers) who take lessons with me. When they first started taking lessons, their parents were not strict with them. They were thus not practicing a lot. However, in the past several months, their parents have gotten really strict with them. The parents do not attend the lessons, since they have a younger child at home, and the boys come to me one at a time. They live in the same apartment complex as me and walk over. While at their lessons, the boys have told me that their parents want them to pass their piece every class, or else they get yelled at, and made to play more and essentially punished. It has gotten to the point where I cannot assign a piece for more than a week, (even if it means adding more to the piece, dynamics, articulation etc) instead of fixing mistakes. Every time I go to change the date in the same piece, their eyes well up with tears. Feeling sorry for them, I don't change the date and simply tell them to practice this for next week. I have met their parents and know how strict they can be.

I really want to say something to the parents. They do not know anything about music. I think they feel it is like math/science (their area of expertise) where you can pass a problem set for example and move on.

Question: how do I say something without letting on that the boys told me this information? I feel that I need to say something and they are not likely to leave my studio since it is right next door and they barely have time to go next door and observe their children. I doubt they would have time to drive them somewhere.

Thoughts?

What if, when you assigned the piece to them, you wrote out a few weeks worth of work right from the start. It could be something like:

Week 1: Learn the notes and rhythms
Week 2: Work on dynamics and musical shaping
Week 3: Memorize

You could actually write the dates instead of week one, two, etc. You could tell the parents that, now that pieces are more involved, they will require a couple weeks of work instead of one week. The parents can see the task for the week, you could check off the tasks as they are complete (so the parents see that the goal was achieve for the week), and then perhaps they wouldn't get upset with the boys. That is certainly a very difficult situation! This is the only thing that I could think of!

This is excellent.

One of piano teacher's job is to create short term goal and long term goal.

Short term goal such as...
playing page 34 and 35 with all notes and rhythm correct
playing page 67 and 68 with dynamics
memorizing page 23 and 24 etc....

With short term goal (one week at a time), you can check it off and tell parents that students already achieve the goal that you set for them. So, as long as student achieve the goal, parents won't yell at them. Yes, you need to communicate with parents with this new approach.

Also piano teacher's job: to create a goal that you sure your student can accomplish.

Longer term goal such as to finish Lesson Book Level 2B in 8 lessons etc....

Super long term goal would be such as to pass Level 2 test and participate in two festivals etc...

I think that speaking with the parents is a good idea. Treat it like a "general conference" or check-up rather than anything specific. Let them know that they are both progressing well, but as they learn more complicated pieces, they need to devote more than 1 week to each piece to perfect them. Let them know how long it takes you for you learn a piece to give them some reference point. You may even say it like, "I think the boys are ready to move on to the next level of playing, which involves a lot more attention to detail than just getting the notes and rhythms. It is generally a 2-3 week process, and this will increase as the complexity and length of the pieces increase."

I like ezpiano's approach, however I think there is a deeper matter at hand here, and that is mainly the parents are not following your lead, but leading the teacher on how to teach. It really should be the other way around with the parents reinforcing what you say. So it sounds to me as though this kind of communication hasn't happened, or has not happened in a while. Since they live in the same apartment complex it shouldn't be difficult to meet up for a 15 minute talk.

It sounds like you are not using an assignment book. I think this is crucial.

You need to communicate to both the students and the parents what the expectations are for each week. I will often write down something like this:

Goals for this week are:
1. RH alone with correct notes, rhythm and fingering.
2. LH alone with smooth legato.
3. HT together, metronome at half performance tempo.

The next week's goals will look different.

I think a conference with the parents is in order.

Wouldn't it make sense to talk with the parents, and guide them in how they can help the students? Parents are part of the equation, and if they're not guided, how will they know?

good point.

My studio is an "open-door" studio, that means parents can stay in studio and learn along with students. If parents already know piano and music, then they will learn the way of how to explain complicated concept to younger students because most of the time they know how to do it but they do not know how break it down to small piece for younger students to digest. If parents do not know piano or music, then they are even more happy to pay one tuition but benefits two.

Of course if parents think they want to run errands, buy grocery, they are welcome to leave the studio too do to so.

80% of my parents stays and learn along students. They usually get lost by Level 2A, but they still stays to show moral support for their kid. They cheers when we did things right in class and they are aware when kids are not listening to me.

One funny thing I figure is that there are a lot of power struggle between students and parents at home. Sometimes parents trying to help kids but kids usually talk back to them: "You do not know music, I know more than you!"

If that is the case, make a video of the songs for student to bring home. When there is argument between parents and kid, then listen to the video to find out answer.

I agree, this is necessary. What I find sometimes is that parents don't read the assignment book notes, they just look at the lesson book (and/or other music) with dates noted and perhaps not any more information. Call the parents.

The parents are involved in the children's studies. If they are not told HOW they should be involved, and WHAT you, the teacher, want them to do and not to do, then they will continue creating the problems you now see. What is it that you want them to do and not to do?

Those of you who've participated in this forum for a long time are aware that I record student's lessons to DVD and then send these home with students. They bring them back to each lesson and the new lesson is recorded. Of late, I've been encouraging parents to copy these lessons to their hard disk drive or to a SD or thumb drive, as these have become so inexpensive. Students will have access to their lessons when they become adults and want to resume piano (for example).

To keystring's point, I use these DVDs not only for students to have a resource, but to communicate with parents. From time to time, almost weekly in fact, I'll email a parent and ask them to watch at "X minutes into the lesson as there was a problem area which they, as parents, could be of great assistance with their student's practice." I also use this medium to explain to parents what we're doing in general, how the student is doing, etc., etc. I urge students to review their DVDs over the weekend. They don't need to watch the lesson from start to finish, as there is much they can fast forward through, but it will serve as a reminder to them of problems they encountered and how we solved them.

I began this practice back in the Fall of 2004, but many teachers were doing it long before then. It's a great resource worth your consideration.

John, your idea of letting parents see what you teach etc. that you describe is excellent. However, how about HOW they should (and should not) help? There is a difference between know WHAT the child is expected to achieve, and HOW the parent should go about doing things. The problem here seems to be that whatever it is the parents are doing, is making the students fearful. In what manner can the parent be "of great assistance"? What is it that they should be doing?

This is too difficult to answer with any specifics. There are so many variables. First, the physical layout of the practice area. Is the piano in the living room, the family room, a child's bedroom, in the basement, in the garage? Where is the parent when the child is practicing, etc., etc., etc.

Then there are issues of where the student is in his studies.

So, when discussing with parents, my comments are directed to what the student needs to be doing in the coming weeks. I believe several others have echoed a similar sentiment. I just find that the use of a DVD to be really invaluable in the communications process and worth consideration by other teachers.

Knowing what the student is supposed to accomplish does not tell the parents what their role is. In this scenario, the kids are anxious and afraid. Maybe they're being punished. Maybe the parents think they have to be stern and angry. Surely a teacher can tell a parent how they should help. Do they hover over the child every second? Do they threaten? Do they review with the child what he is to do before a lesson, and then give the child room to practice? Is the person who will tell the child he did well the parent - or does the teacher want to be the one to make that judgment call? That kind of thing.

"Would you please insure that students begin their practice with scales. Their assignment sheet shows which scales they are working on, and they can rotate from day to day. But they need to play each scale at a metronome setting of 72 and each note they play should match up with the metronome beat as closely as they are able. They will improve with practice, so perfection at this point is not the goal. Simply learning to listen to the metronome and making a close match is what we're after."

That's the kind of help I can ask of parents. If they are standing behind the student with a bull whip, there's nothing I can do about it.

And I will note you are communicating with the parent as to their role. That is the most any teacher can do.

Keystring makes sense to me. Just call the parents and talk with them.

If every piano teacher made a practice of making a quick, routine phone call to each set of parents once every 6-8 weeks, wouldn't a lot of problems be nipped in the bud?

I'm not a piano teacher, but I see teachers on the forum getting frustrated because parents don't know how to treat piano teachers, their kids' lessons, practicing, etc.

But how would they know if they never had private music lessons themselves? For most people it's still a luxury. It's outside their experience.

They think their kid's piano lesson must be just like his math class. But it isn't. You have to tell them how it's different.

It's like people who go to the opera for the first time and don't know when to applaud. It's not the same as applauding at a play or a concert. But how would you know if you hadn't been before and no one had told you?

I remember the first time my father took me to the opera in New York. He whistled through his teeth at a terrific singer. That's what he normally did when he needed a cab. How would someone there for the first time know that you can do that at the opera?

Please just talk to them.

Agree!! So many of the questions that parents ask here about teachers, and so many of the questions that teachers ask here about parents, come down to a lack of communication. Please, teachers and parents, if you want to make sure that the other party understands your view point, your concerns, your suggestions, you need to communicate with the other party.

The communication can happen in many forms: parent-teacher conferences, casual chats, phone calls, emails, notebooks, lesson recordings. Whatever method that works for each teacher and each family is the best method for that particularly teacher/family situation.

Some teachers may not have thought about involving parents in the students' learning process. If this is the case, please reconsider. Educational research have shown for a very long time that successful students have parents who are very involved in their children's education, far, far beyond finding a teacher and paying for the tuition.

As someone who studies music, and whose child is an adult who studied music, I can see the intent. I have enough information and I would know what to do with it. If my child was younger, I might review with him before he starts if he knows what he is going to do in his session. I might listen as he practices to see if he is practising these things, or if he's trying to figure out how to play the Star Wars theme the entire time, or is obviously racing through those scales.

But if I don't have a clue I might do any number of things. If it's a piece rather than scales, I might expect it to be beautiful and make comments. Or with the metronome scales, I might try to give the same kind of feedback that the teacher on the video did, when that should not be my role. (And here comes the question of roles).

The instructions do not tell us what the parents should be doing. They only tell us what the child should be doing. A parent in the know can figure out what his role is, but another parent will not know what he is supposed to be doing.

In the original post, the children seemed to almost traumatized by whatever is going on at home. Therefore the parents do not know what their role is (what they should be doing), and they are doing something that the teacher probably would not want them to do. This may go beyond just telling them about the children's assignments. What do you want parents to do, when the children practice?

My statement you quote is not coming out of the blue. It's been preceded by hours and years of instruction, which the parent has either followed or ignored. If they've chosen to ignore all previous instruction, then they need to attend a lesson in which we (again) discuss their role and how they can assist their student. It's not my job to provide free parenting instruction.

The OP said the parents know nothing about music; their area of expertise is math and science.

Do the parents know what a metronome is, how to use it, and how not to overuse it? If you write in the kid's assignment book "work on dynamics", do the parents know what "dynamics" means?

In this case, probably not. So I wouldn't try to get them to help with things that are outside of their experience.

They probably assume that learning to play the piano is like learning math. You spend time on the homework problems until you get the right answers and learn the routine for solving that type of problem.

It may be counterproductive to ask parents like this to do anything more than "Please make sure Johnny spends 30 mins a day, 5 days a week practicing". Then work with Johnny on his practicing skills.

One idea you might run past the parents is that learning a musical instrument is a lot like learning a foreign language. That's something they probably HAVE tried to do in the past.

Both require you to practice repeatedly over time. Many short practice sessions are usually better than a few long ones. Learning musical instruments and languages both involve internalizing information, listening and mimicry, building and calling upon muscle memory, and so on. They're really very different from learning math or science.

I'd talk to these parents about their doing LESS. It sounds like now they lock the poor little tykes in the dungeon until their piano pieces are perfect.

Just my 2 cents.