Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#2051242 - 03/20/13 09:10 AM modal sound
larryz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/10/11
Posts: 94
Loc: sweden
I think this theme has a nice modal sound.
Are there any theoretical rules I can use to expand on it (and still keep it modal)?
How do I analyse this theme and assert it has a modal sound?



________________3
______________2
_____T___T__T______T
_______L_____________L
_______________________6
_________________________5___5__5.
___________________________4



Top
Piano & Music Acc. / Sheet Music


Sheet Music Plus Homepage
#2051381 - 03/20/13 01:43 PM Re: modal sound [Re: larryz]
rada Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/07/06
Posts: 1124
Loc: pagosa springs,co
I've never seen anything like that...what does it mean?

rada

Top
#2051418 - 03/20/13 03:02 PM Re: modal sound [Re: larryz]
Steve Chandler Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 2738
Loc: Urbandale, Iowa
Assuming Ionian mode and T stands for tonic and L for leading tone then there's nothing modal about this that isn't also in a simple major scale. If it sounds modal it's because the 4 is not a leading tone to 5 (easily remedied with a secondary dominant giving you a #4), but that would also imply possible modulation. If I've misread your shorthand please correct me. To enhance the modal sound use more subdominant to dominant progressions or flat your leading tone or use a different mode. Most people who are savvy enough to hear a flat seventh will assume some mode is being used, hence "it sounds modal."

Top
#2051732 - 03/21/13 04:00 AM Re: modal sound [Re: Steve Chandler]
larryz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/10/11
Posts: 94
Loc: sweden
Thanks for the response!
I forgot to mention that this phrase Tonic is note C. ( Though trying the other modes, this phrase only seem "fit/sound good" at C to my ears ).

Interestingly, as you suggest, flatting the leading tone (in this case B -> Bb) sounds different, but still good.

Though trying a #4, totally removes the "modal sound".
Which suggest I may have analysed wrong. If I put Tonic at G, the phrase will begin on 4 and end on the new tonic G:

Here, T= note G. 3 is either B or Bb (but consistent).
L = note F (cant be F#).

________________6
______________5
_____4___4__4______4
_______3_____________3
_______________________2
_________________________T___T__T.
___________________________L


Top
#2052545 - 03/22/13 03:25 PM Re: modal sound [Re: larryz]
Schubertslieder Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/02/13
Posts: 373
Loc: Michigan, USA
Dear larryz

Would you have recording of this?
_________________________
Charles Peck (American)--Metropolitan
Debussy--various pieces
Grieg--various pieces

Top
#2052658 - 03/22/13 06:18 PM Re: modal sound [Re: Schubertslieder]
Exalted Wombat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 1197
Loc: London UK
Is this a recognised system of notation, or your own invention? It would be much easier if you showed us your melody in standard notation.

Top
#2053028 - 03/23/13 04:02 PM Re: modal sound [Re: larryz]
larryz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/10/11
Posts: 94
Loc: sweden

Thanks for all the response smile I'll try do describe my theme better.

We have:
________________6
______________5
_____4___4__4______4
_______3_____________3
_______________________2
_________________________T___T__T.
___________________________L

The vertical movement is just to make it easier for the eye.
In pure numbers this theme is: 4 3 4 4 5 6 4 3 2 T L T T.

Where:
T is the tonic. The first tone in a selected scale.
In my second post I selected G as the tonic.
2 is the second diatonic tone in the scale.
3 is third.. and so on up to seven.
Seven is also called leading tone or L (not sure this is correct, because we dont always are half-step from tonic).

So if we select G as tonic, we get:

C B C C D E C B A G F G G

In G-clef score having selected G as tonic, this theme would look like:

================================================
.....................O..........................
=================O==============================
....O.....O..O..........O.......................
=======O===================O====================
...............................O................
==================================O=====O==O====
.....................................O..........
================================================


Sine my second post I have made some progress and tried to work in a second voice:


theme___________6
______________5
_____4___4__4______4
_______3_____________3
_______________________2
_________________________T___T__T.
___________________________L

Example one, all notes:
_____________________________________
____________5_____________________
______________4________4_________
_________3______3__3_____3___3____________
_______2________|____2_____2_______________
_____T__________|_______________T____________
________________|
_Example_two____6__6____________
_Share_the___________5_________
__same_beginning_________3______
___as_ex._one__________2___2_2__T___



Theme:
==================================================
.......................O..........................
===================O==============================
......O.....O..O..........O.......................
=========O===================O====================
.................................O................
====================================O=====O==O====
.......................................O..........
==================================================


second voice (example 1)
================================================
................................................
================================================
................................................
=================================================
.................................................
=============O====================================
................O............O....................
===========O=======O==O=========O======O============
........O................O.........O................
---==O====------------------------------==O==----------


second voice (example 2)


================================================
................................................
================================================
................................................
=================================================
...................O..O............................
=============O===========O=========================
................O.................................
==========O====================O====================
........O...................O.....O..O..................
---==O====------------------------------==O===----------






Top
#2054327 - 03/26/13 12:18 AM modal sound [Re: larryz]
LoPresti Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 1304
Loc: New York
Hi Larry,

Welcome to the forums. If you want any of us to take even a bit of this seriously, then use standard staff notation, with intended pitches and note values. There is a universally accepted set of symbols to represent music - let's use them.

Ed
_________________________
In music, everything one does correctly helps everything else.

Top
#2054413 - 03/26/13 06:45 AM Re: modal sound [Re: larryz]
Exalted Wombat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 1197
Loc: London UK
Perhaps he doesn't know how to show us notation? Could someone run down the various ways Larry could attach the output of a scorewriting program or a scan of handwritten manuscript to a message?

Top
#2054866 - 03/26/13 10:47 PM Re: modal sound [Re: larryz]
Schubertslieder Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/02/13
Posts: 373
Loc: Michigan, USA
Hello larryz

Your theme is as follows:
C B C C D E C B A G F G G

Second voice (example 1) is as follows:
C D E G F E E D F E D E C

Second voice (example 2) is as follows:
C D E G F A A G D E D D C

Both second voices example 1 and 2 use lower C compared to the theme, which uses upper C.

I would select the "second voice (example 1)" to show the contrast to the theme as the theme uses many upper Cs. Contrast and variety keeps music interesting in my view.
_________________________
Charles Peck (American)--Metropolitan
Debussy--various pieces
Grieg--various pieces

Top
#2054869 - 03/26/13 10:54 PM Re: modal sound [Re: larryz]
Schubertslieder Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/02/13
Posts: 373
Loc: Michigan, USA
Hello larryz

I wasn't sure if you were using both second voice examples 1 and 2 or not, so I said I would select the one that would contrast the theme.

Your piece is perhaps one of the more interesting piece of composition I have encountered in this site. It has many interesting elements.

I will be very interested to read more of your writing so continue to post.
_________________________
Charles Peck (American)--Metropolitan
Debussy--various pieces
Grieg--various pieces

Top
#2054921 - 03/27/13 01:26 AM Re: modal sound [Re: larryz]
Schubertslieder Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/02/13
Posts: 373
Loc: Michigan, USA
Hello larryz

One more comment:

Both of your "second voice examples" 1 and 2 are using middle c as opposed to your theme, which is using treble c.

Keep posting. It is an interesting piece.
_________________________
Charles Peck (American)--Metropolitan
Debussy--various pieces
Grieg--various pieces

Top
#2060245 - 04/06/13 08:35 AM Re: modal sound [Re: larryz]
alexpol Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/04/13
Posts: 5
Loc: Banned
I was unable to understand all the basic things.I need some more details about it.
_________________________
Spammer, now banned

Top
#2063460 - 04/12/13 12:03 PM Re: modal sound [Re: larryz]
larryz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/10/11
Posts: 94
Loc: sweden
I've completed five measures which brings it to cadence. Though it doesn't sound so original, I'm sticking with it, to have something to work on.


.........................................O................
+============================+=========O=================+
|.............O..............|.O...O.O.....O.............|
|===========O================|===O===========O===O=======|
|...O...O.O.....O............|.................O.........|
|=====O===========O==========|=====================O===O=|
|...................O........|.......................O...|
|=&===================O==O=O=|===========================|
|.......................O....|...........................|
+============================+===========================+



+=========================+===============+=============+
|...........O.............|...............|.............|
|=========O===============|===============|=============|
|...O.O.O.....O...........|.O.............|.............|
|===============O=========|===O===========|=============|
|.................O.......|.....O.........|.............|
|=O=================O===O=|=======O====O=O|=============|
|.....................O...|.........O.....|.O...........|
+=========================+===============+===O=========+
...............................................O........
...............................................==O=.=O==
...................................................O....


Top
#2064071 - 04/13/13 02:58 PM Re: modal sound [Re: larryz]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
Why waste time writing out countless rows of equals signs and periods when you could just write the note names?
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2064287 - 04/14/13 12:44 AM Re: modal sound [Re: larryz]
Schubertslieder Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/02/13
Posts: 373
Loc: Michigan, USA
Hello larryz

Below are what I came up with regarding your new and interesting score.

1st measure;
CBCCDECBAGFGG

2nd measure;
EDEEFGEDCDBAB

3rd measure;
GCCCDECBAGFG

4th measure;
CBAGFGG

5th measure;
FEDCBC

Wish the best with your composition.
_________________________
Charles Peck (American)--Metropolitan
Debussy--various pieces
Grieg--various pieces

Top
#2064291 - 04/14/13 12:52 AM Re: modal sound [Re: larryz]
Schubertslieder Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/02/13
Posts: 373
Loc: Michigan, USA
Hello larryz

You mentioned the cadence and I think it does end well. On the next to the last measure, there are many dominant notes, and the last measure ends on a tonic. To me, this is a nice ending.
_________________________
Charles Peck (American)--Metropolitan
Debussy--various pieces
Grieg--various pieces

Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
ad (Casio)
Celviano by Casio Rebate
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Charles R Walter upright
by landorrano
Today at 05:19 PM
Does anybody know about Hayes London?
by Sam4
Today at 05:16 PM
Mason & Hamlin Opinions
by Hunt
Today at 03:23 PM
contacting with someone of VI Labs
by imyself
Today at 03:02 PM
My Initial Thoughts on Left/Right Hand Independence
by Visalia
Today at 01:23 PM
Who's Online
124 registered (andwi, accordeur, alfredo capurso, 36251, 43 invisible), 1391 Guests and 14 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
76251 Members
42 Forums
157632 Topics
2315320 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission