Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#2054477 - 03/26/13 10:04 AM Adding weight to a base bridge
Goof Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/05/12
Posts: 347
Loc: UK
Can somebody supply advice on how to add a weight to the base bridge of an upright piano? I have read, "here and there " in the forum, that this ia way to improve the "tone" of the first few strings on this bridge.
I have renewed the problematic 1956 strings, 6 bichords, and this has made a big difference.

Top
(ad PTG 568) Win a Year Journal Subscription
PTG 57th Annual Convention - Atlanta
#2054488 - 03/26/13 10:39 AM Re: Adding weight to a base bridge [Re: Goof]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 1896
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
I assume by the "top" of the bass bridge you mean the highest pitched strings on the overstrung section. They often sound thin, nasal, can have a pulsing chime sound and/or twangy sound. Adding weight here would probably not help since the bass bridge is significantly heavier than the treble.

Adding weight is usually done to the bottom of the long bridge to help reduce the jumpiness of the end of the bridge. Techs call this the end of bridge effect. I have had some success with this.

If the top bass problem is a pulsing chiming sound it is probably due to the bridge rocking back and forth too much. This augments longitudinal modes. Devising the simplest, cleanest, most workman like way to stiffen the top end of the bridge against rocking motion is what I do.

The wound string specs can influence this as well. It is seldom a single thing acting here. Many small scales sound small because the bi-chord stringing has to be carried far too high in the scale-this reduces the normal trichord unison sound that we have come to expect from the piano.
_________________________
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible

Top
#2054504 - 03/26/13 11:03 AM Re: Adding weight to a base bridge [Re: Goof]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 1896
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
GOOF; would you please edit the title of your post to correct the spelling of "BASE" bridge. It just kind of bugs me. I make typos too-but let's fix the title.
_________________________
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible

Top
#2054532 - 03/26/13 12:05 PM Re: Adding weight to a base bridge [Re: Goof]
Gene Nelson Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 1464
Loc: Old Hangtown California
If you are curious about weighting the bridge you should experiment.
About 50g to 200g is typical.
Finding the best location will take a bit of trial and error.
You can try a spring clamp or similar device on the bridge just to get a start with weight location and listening - weigh the clamp.
Once you have found the best location and optimal weight you will need to attach a permanent weight to the bridge from the back side in the same location.
Possibly there is a soundboard button that can be removed and your weight can be attached in place of it? This would be ideal.
You will find that upright support posts are great obsticles.
_________________________
RPT
PTG Member

Top
#2054563 - 03/26/13 01:50 PM Re: Adding weight to a base bridge [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT]
Goof Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/05/12
Posts: 347
Loc: UK
Bass vs Base.
Fascinating: one lives and learns.
I always thought that BASS was reserved for fish; a certain of wood; and some sort of sewing.
Strange that the obvious BASE as in the the "lowest" is not used for the lowest bridge.
So there you go Ed and thank you. I have yet to find how the usage in music of the BASS comes about- I'll return to Wiki and see what it has to offer.

Top
#2054564 - 03/26/13 01:53 PM Re: Adding weight to a base bridge [Re: Gene Nelson]
Goof Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/05/12
Posts: 347
Loc: UK
Thanks - will do and report back !

Top
#2054579 - 03/26/13 02:28 PM Re: Adding weight to a base bridge [Re: Goof]
jim ialeggio Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 599
Loc: shirley, MA
I think you'll find adding weight to the high bass will muffle and deaden things more...but always worth a try, just to see what happens. I agree with Ed, that these weight additions work better at the end of the long bridge.

Ed, I have several short piano bass bridges that are darn near perpendicular to the strings. Do you by chance have any pics of how you achieved your "stabilizing"? I though about doing it on a recent belly job, but was afraind my structural solution would add too much mass to the bass bridge, which really wnats to be as light as practicable...at least in my experience.

Jim Ialeggio
_________________________
Jim Ialeggio
www.grandpianosolutions.com
advanced soundboard and action redesigns
978 425-9026
Shirley Center, MA

Top
#2054584 - 03/26/13 02:55 PM Re: Adding weight to a base bridge [Re: Goof]
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3919
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
The problem with things like bass vs base is that once they are allowed to stand, other readers begin to think that is the correct terminology and spelling.
Supermarket signs drive me crazy: "Banana's $0.49 per lb"
_________________________
Jurgen Goering
Piano Forte Supply
www.pianofortesupply.com

Piattino Caster Cups distributor

Top
#2054589 - 03/26/13 03:06 PM Re: Adding weight to a base bridge [Re: Supply]
Zeno Wood Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 438
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
That's not bad at all. Banana's are selling for more than that around hear.
_________________________
Zeno Wood, Piano Technician
Brooklyn College

Top
#2054663 - 03/26/13 05:07 PM Re: Adding weight to a base bridge [Re: Zeno Wood]
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5184
Loc: Olympia, Washington
Originally Posted By: Zeno Wood
That's not bad at all. Banana's are selling for more than that around hear.

Of course banana's are more expensive -- apostrophe's are expensive!

ddf
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

Top
#2054678 - 03/26/13 05:25 PM Re: Adding weight to a base bridge [Re: Goof]
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5184
Loc: Olympia, Washington
Originally Posted By: Goof
Can somebody supply advice on how to add a weight to the base bridge of an upright piano? I have read, "here and there" in the forum, that this ia way to improve the "tone" of the first few strings on this bridge.

Sometimes adding weight to the bottom of a bass bridge will “improve the tone.” Other times you’ll not notice much of any change or improvement at all. What effect it will have on your particular piano depends on many variables. And on what you are trying to accomplish.

Adding mass to a bridge will increase its mechanical impedance. Adding mass makes it less willing to accept vibrating energy from the strings; particularly high-frequency energy or the energy in the higher partials. If this is what you are trying to accomplish—though I rarely find pianos in which this would be an improvement—that adding weight is the way to go.

More often at the upper end of the bass bridge we’re more concerned with controlling the rate of energy transfer at the fundamental pitch and lower partials. For this it is more effective to add a bit of stiffness to the system. This also alters the mechanical impedance of the system but its affect is more noticeable at lower frequencies. You might consider a short, auxiliary rib placed immediately under the end of the bridge body—or as close to the end as you can reasonably get. Some experimentation may be necessary to come up with the best balance between height, width and length.

ddf
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

Top
#2054725 - 03/26/13 06:29 PM Re: Adding weight to a base bridge [Re: Goof]
Grandpianoman Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 2319
Loc: Portland, Oregon
I have read and tried 'loading the bridge' by using small vice grips...the smallest they make. You attach one to the bridge pin. Make sure you do not touch the string, otherwise you have buzzing. It does change the sound, depending on where you place the vice grip/s.

Top
#2054781 - 03/26/13 07:55 PM Re: Adding weight to a base bridge [Re: jim ialeggio]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 1896
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
Jim, I make quarter-sawn spruce plywood with nearly 1/16" plies. Ala Wurlitzer spinet low tenor bridge, if you know what I mean.
_________________________
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible

Top
#2054802 - 03/26/13 08:40 PM Re: Adding weight to a base bridge [Re: Goof]
Grandpianoman Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 2319
Loc: Portland, Oregon
I might add that you can also use these vice grips in the other sections of the bridge. I have tried that, it does change the souund.

Top
#2054954 - 03/27/13 05:08 AM Re: Adding weight to a base bridge [Re: Gene Nelson]
Goof Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/05/12
Posts: 347
Loc: UK
YES!! There is a button at the start of the BASS (as in fish and not as in base ball,) bridge, so some big washers there will be the place to start.
Then I'll buy some 30X30X3mm ALUMINIUM angle and fix that to the back of the bridge so that I can experiment with various weights and positions without moving screws in and out of the bridge.
Many thanks.

Top
#2055325 - 03/27/13 08:35 PM Re: Adding weight to a base bridge [Re: Del]
kpembrook Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 1295
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: Del
Originally Posted By: Zeno Wood
That's not bad at all. Banana's are selling for more than that around hear.

Of course banana's are more expensive -- apostrophe's are expensive!

ddf


And then, in one customer's yard by a pile of scrap wood was the sign:
Would 4 Sail
_________________________
Keith Akins, RPT
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair

Top
#2055350 - 03/27/13 09:31 PM Re: Adding weight to a base bridge [Re: Grandpianoman]
kpembrook Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 1295
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: Grandpianoman
I have read and tried 'loading the bridge' by using small vice grips...the smallest they make. You attach one to the bridge pin. Make sure you do not touch the string, otherwise you have buzzing. It does change the sound, depending on where you place the vice grip/s.


Yup, that's how I do it.
_________________________
Keith Akins, RPT
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair

Top
#2058197 - 04/02/13 08:47 AM Re: Adding weight to a base bridge [Re: Goof]
Goof Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/05/12
Posts: 347
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Goof
Can somebody supply advice on how to add a weight to the base bridge of an upright piano? I have read, "here and there " in the forum, that this ia way to improve the "tone" of the first few strings on this bridge.
I have renewed the problematic 1956 strings, 6 bichords, and this has made a big difference.

2nd April.
Well! Now on my BASS bridge I have added two sets of 32X2mm dia washers. There are three screws which secure the bridge to the soundboard and I have added about 90gm to the lowest screw, and 120gm to the middle screw.
Adding to the highest screw (i.e. near my problematic D3 to A2 bichords)made NO difference.
Overall I would say there is a purer tone to all the notes more especially the lower.
Those notes on the long bridge have always had a great deal more power.
I'm still trying to post photographs - difficult process!

Top
#2058504 - 04/03/13 01:09 AM Re: Adding weight to a base bridge [Re: Goof]
Nash. Piano Rescue Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/09
Posts: 384
Loc: East Nashville,TN Scottsville...
I am thankful that writers have not resorted to the ever popular " text speak" language. Too many abbreviations and W's So reading Base as Bass while a writing faux paw isn't too bad.
_________________________
J. Christie
Nashville Piano Rescue
www.NashvillePianoRescue.com
East Nashville
Bowling Green, KY
Scottsville KY.
Chamber of Commerce
Member/Sponsor

Putting inspiration in the hands of area musicians
Through restoration/renovation

Top
#2058574 - 04/03/13 07:39 AM Re: Adding weight to a base bridge [Re: Goof]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3788
Loc: North Carolina
We've fixed bass ... and now we've broken faux pas.

Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
Our latest Issue is available now...
Piano News - Interesting & Fun Piano Related Newsletter! (free)
-------------------
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
105 registered (Atrys, Anticlock, ascc, accordeur, 38 invisible), 1291 Guests and 11 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75602 Members
42 Forums
156326 Topics
2295860 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
piano technician cost list
by ascc
08/01/14 01:36 AM
Liszt on Steinway A3
by Reno
08/01/14 01:35 AM
Roland RD800 initial impressions
by fizikisto
08/01/14 12:28 AM
Connected Slurs
by TX-Bluebonnet
08/01/14 12:17 AM
Recital 35 --- Call For Submissions
by AB Forum Recital
07/31/14 10:17 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission