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Joined: Jun 2003
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You might check if there is a "call a lawyer" event in your area. That would give you an indication of what you should do next. You could check with the local bar association.
You really need to take action against a neighbor who is harassing you, rather than giving in, and the sooner the better. Otherwise this is going to be unending. You should be the first one to make the formal complaint. Make recordings of the pounding on the wall, so you have evidence.
It may end with one of you having to move in any case, but if you are doing nothing wrong, you should not be the one to be driven out of your home.
Semipro Tech
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unfortunately, her action only affects me. I have talked to the property manager, and he said so far it is still neighbor vs neighbor issue which HOA doesn't generally get involved. He also said calling police will probably make things worse. My feeling is that my neighbor is lonely single mid-aged woman, she is trying everything to get people's attention. The property manager and the board has labeled her "crazy" after dealing her with other issues she had previously. I will try the following besides documenting everything, I will play nice, show up at her door with sugary treats, have a small talk with her and casually mention the bangs on the wall, let her know I am aware of the bangs and that's unpleasant. I am super nervous though, I am not native English speaker. what do you guys think about the idea? Any suggestions on how I should start the conversation? I need to be careful with my wording for sure. Document all of the wall pounding and any face to face interactions. Legal action might be taken by the HOA, and if that becomes the case, the cost would not be out of your pocket directly. How many owners are in the association? Do her actions affect other owners?
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It's interesting how things have changed in this forum. I was once given a hard time when I suggested that pianos were very often too loud. I started a thread back in March 2011 or so asking if member's pianos were too loud, too quiet, or just right.
The thread was eventually locked.
Where are are the threads of pianos that are too quiet?
Perhaps since there are so many pianos that are too loud, there could be a sticky thread specifically addressing this returning issue.
Just a thought.
Yamaha AvantGrand N1X | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
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Dave, I'll add to that..when I first came to PW I had the same curios question
about volume, one member said "Bob no one ever asked me to play louder"
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Joined: Jun 2003
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Forget about being nice with her. It will not work. You need a lawyer.
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On the topic of making a piano quieter, a lot of uprights have a middle pedal (or a button) that drops a heavy piece of felt between the hammers and strings so that the overall tone is drastically softer, and you can call a tuner to soften the hammers if they're too bright ("voicing"). However, these solutions only cut out the high-frequencies from the sound, and don't really "reduce" the volume by all that much. A quick method of soundproofing is to put a heavy blanket, or a bunch of towels, between the back of the piano and the wall.
However, it does seem like your neighbor is being more than a bit unreasonable (and possibly suffering from tinnitus or a near constant migraine). You've mentioned that she bangs on the walls because you play the piano for an hour or use your sink? That's reason enough to complain to the HOA. Since you can't afford to move out, I'd recommend sitting down and talking to her, and hopefully a compromise or a deal can be made so that you can keep playing and cooking, and she won't bang on the walls and yell at you.
2012 Kawai K3
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Hello,
I'm with you, and I'm also with your neighbor because I understand perfectly how frustrated our neighbors are when hearing noise from others.
Let me develop the picture of noise frustration I gave to my neighbors before.
I lived in a 5th floor apartment of 12 floor apartment building in Paris, France; and one day I met someone living in 10 floor complaining about my 45' upright piano, she was friendly and polite, so I asked her to allow me to come to her apartment to hear what she heard, then I asked my friend to play my piano when I was in the frustrated lady's apartment. Result: The sound is audible from the 10 th floor because the concret transmitted sounds very far.
What I did to fix problem:
1/ Put piano on thick carpet.
2/ Create a soundproof panel to put behind the soundboard:
- Go to shop similar to Home Depot to buy wood to make a frame and soundproof material (in France it was foam-like sheet, in USA I found soundproof panel in Home Depot, or Lowes), then I nailed the panel to the frame.
- I fabricated 4 triangle shapes from wood.
- Put some pillows or blanket between the soundboard and my soundproof panel.
- Push the 4 triangle shapes between the wall and the soundproof panel. The triangle shapes will allow you to push tightly the soundproof panel agaisnt the back of your piano (other shapes do not).
(note: If not, you have to nail the panel to the back of the piano, this is not good because it damages the piano and not easy to take out the panel)
This solution is the best I can find, it mutes at least 80% noise (if it's too much then don't use pillow, blanket). And the carpet is the "must" if you live in a concret building because concret can transmit noise very far.
We play piano, others don't, and the noise of a piano especially when we practice is very terrible to others, much more than we can imagine (when I was a teenager, I practiced guitar, playing scale up and down, I drove my young brother nut and we had a very goodfight with punches, even we were only 2 boys in the house and we love each other, so don't let our neighbor shoot at us when they get mad and out of control)
Last edited by hoola; 03/28/13 04:35 PM.
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Dear lord, that would be one loud piano, wouldn't it? 
2012 Kawai K3
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Dear lord, that would be one loud piano, wouldn't it? Well, the entire soundboard would be aimed at the wall instead of the floor, right? A grand piano's sound board is several feet away from the floor while the soundboard of most uprights is nearly touching the wall. 
Yamaha AvantGrand N1X | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
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Well I just don't get it. Why buy or rent a piano in a condo or apartment, only to kill its beautiful sound and resonance with pillows, blankets, felt, and so on? I don't believe you can still practice effectively to get the best response from it in that muffled state. Even critics of digitals surely would agree they would be a better solution? But keep the piano and play beautifully for one or two hours after the (silent headphone) practice on the digital.
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@SBP: I am from Europe with decimal system meter, centimeter... and gallon, yard, mile, inche ... are always my headache, it's hard for old dogs play new tricks :), I am not sure that "'" stands for foot or inche but I will buy a 45 foot piano if it exists, . @spanishbuddha: as I see you are from UK, so you know well that in Europe we live on top of each other, especially in cities. Do you mean that people living in cities should forget the dream of playing on real acoustic piano? I lived in France and bought real acoustic piano because: - It sounds better, no speaker in the world with a reasonable price can reproduce the sound quality of a relatively good piano: in France, I had a W Hoffman made in W Germany in 1988. In USA I have a so-so audio system: Magnepan speakers, Denon receiver (real audiophyle should have pre-amp + amp, not receiver), Monster cables, and some "high-end" cable... and this so-so system already cost me nearly US$ 6000. However when I play CD, the system can not reproduce the sound quality I hear from a real piano, if I pump up 3, 4 times budget for the audio system then there will be some differences, but the hookup of the digital piano to the sound system will be a nightmare and suck some more money. - The touch: My wife teaches piano, so we usually help students choose there digital pianos, with prices varies from US$300 to US$1300, and no digital piano in this price range give a satisfying touch, sound as a real acoustic one. My "suggestion-solution" allows having a quiet environment for both our family members and neighbors (in big cities). When we need a real, splendid sound from a real then just pull out the panel (pillows and blanket are optional accessories to panel). I did make a calculation, evaluation and this option is the most economic to have a good sound, and good touch. To have good thing with a constraint then we have to make some sacrifies, bear some burdens. However, if we don't expect much from sound and touch then digital pianos are the way to go.
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@SBP: I am from Europe with decimal system meter, centimeter... and gallon, yard, mile, inche ... are always my headache, it's hard for old dogs play new tricks :), I am not sure that "'" stands for foot or inche but I will buy a 45 foot piano if it exists, . Yeah, the unit conversions are incredibly irritating. I wouldn't mind if we all just switched to metric and get it all over with. Measuring the size of something based on some guy's foot is kinda absurd :P For the record, "=inches, and '=feet. IIRC, there was this one crazy guy who was obsessed with finding the largest upright piano ever because he just had to have ground shaking bass and couldn't afford a Fazioli. He started out with a 56" upright, albeit one that couldn't hold a tune. :|
2012 Kawai K3
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Joined: Aug 2012
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The Klavin 370 "upright" is 145.669"... ![[Linked Image]](http://www.klavins-pianos.com/grafix/klavins1.jpg)
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Joined: Feb 2007
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The KLAVIN upright?? Did Cliff get into the piano business now?? ![[Linked Image]](http://www.blogcdn.com/jobs.aol.com/articles/media/2011/09/ratzenbergerbrjackethi-1317408006.jpg)
Last edited by Furtwangler; 03/28/13 10:20 PM.
Amateur Pianist and raconteur.
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This is certainly very helpful. Thank you! Do you by chance have pictures of the triangles? Hello,
I'm with you, and I'm also with your neighbor because I understand perfectly how frustrated our neighbors are when hearing noise from others.
Let me develop the picture of noise frustration I gave to my neighbors before.
I lived in a 5th floor apartment of 12 floor apartment building in Paris, France; and one day I met someone living in 10 floor complaining about my 45' upright piano, she was friendly and polite, so I asked her to allow me to come to her apartment to hear what she heard, then I asked my friend to play my piano when I was in the frustrated lady's apartment. Result: The sound is audible from the 10 th floor because the concret transmitted sounds very far.
What I did to fix problem:
1/ Put piano on thick carpet.
2/ Create a soundproof panel to put behind the soundboard:
- Go to shop similar to Home Depot to buy wood to make a frame and soundproof material (in France it was foam-like sheet, in USA I found soundproof panel in Home Depot, or Lowes), then I nailed the panel to the frame.
- I fabricated 4 triangle shapes from wood.
- Put some pillows or blanket between the soundboard and my soundproof panel.
- Push the 4 triangle shapes between the wall and the soundproof panel. The triangle shapes will allow you to push tightly the soundproof panel agaisnt the back of your piano (other shapes do not).
(note: If not, you have to nail the panel to the back of the piano, this is not good because it damages the piano and not easy to take out the panel)
This solution is the best I can find, it mutes at least 80% noise (if it's too much then don't use pillow, blanket). And the carpet is the "must" if you live in a concret building because concret can transmit noise very far.
We play piano, others don't, and the noise of a piano especially when we practice is very terrible to others, much more than we can imagine (when I was a teenager, I practiced guitar, playing scale up and down, I drove my young brother nut and we had a very goodfight with punches, even we were only 2 boys in the house and we love each other, so don't let our neighbor shoot at us when they get mad and out of control)
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14
Junior Member
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OP
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14 |
yeah, for people like me who can't afford a SFH but dream to have a real piano, it seems reasonable to have an acoustic piano in a condo 
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Hi bearmom, congrats on the K3. I like how uprights have a lower music desk that makes it easier for youngsters to read music (like they are supposed to).
If you do not find the volume offensive, and no other neightbors below or above are complaining, and you don't want to threaten the old lady next door, then here's my advice... learn to ignore her banging. I used to live close to a metal parts machining factoring and that kind of banging is way loud; but I still learned how to take naps through all that.
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Dear bearmom (I love bear ) I can not give you pictures of triangle, but I can describe it easily. Remember that what I describe here is only concepts, and you don't need to do exactly same things, a so-so implementation of the concept will be very OK. Imagine that the distance between the panel and the wall is 2 inches. Then you do yourself 4 pieces of triangle from woods with these dimensions: - 3 angles A (90 degrees), B(70 degrees), C (20 degrees) or A (90 degrees), B(65 degrees), C (25 degrees). Note: These angles don't need to be exact, the bigger angle B is, the easier the triangle stay in place. - 3 sides: * side (c) (opposite of angle C): when the distance between the panel and the wall is 2 inches, then side (c) should be bigger than 2 inches => 2.5 to 3 inches is OK. * side (a) (opposite of angle A) and side (b) (opposite of angle B): you just need to draw on paper: side (c) = 3 inches, draw angle B = 65 degrees then use pencil to draw line (a) from angle B to cut side (b). Then map that pattern to the wood to cut the woods. * side (d): thickness of the triangle: 1 inche is OK. Then you just need to push the triangles into the gap between the wall and the panel, 2 upper, 2 lower, with longer side (b) against the wall, the longest side (a) against the panel, side (c) is where you push the triangle into the gap between the wall and the panel. The triangles between wall and panel will keep the panel against the back of the piano, and noise will be contained inside the panel (better noise isolation material will be better, if you use bad material then you can put pillows, blanket between the panel and the soundboard) Note: this sounds complicated but it's simple and this solution: - causes no harm to the piano - easy to mount and unmount. - you can play piano with original timbre (a muffler with felt between strings and hammers sound bad, and bad touch). If you use wood-based panel from Home Depot or Lowes then you can paint it to avoid wood powder fall out (I did this panel twice in US, for my wife's upright and my friend)
Last edited by hoola; 03/29/13 03:29 AM.
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Did someone say something about a really big upright piano? For only $90,000+ you can own this piano. ![[Linked Image]](http://mammothpiano.com/images/Mammoth_Piano_VCG_2012_7_.jpg)
Yamaha AvantGrand N1X | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
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@spanishbuddha: as I see you are from UK, so you know well that in Europe we live on top of each other, especially in cities. Do you mean that people living in cities should forget the dream of playing on real acoustic piano?
I lived in France and bought real acoustic piano because:
- It sounds better, no speaker in the world with a reasonable price can reproduce the sound quality of a relatively good piano: in France,
- The touch: My wife teaches piano, so we usually help students choose there digital pianos, with prices varies from US$300 to US$1300, and no digital piano in this price range give a satisfying touch, sound as a real acoustic one.
OK, you didn't read my post, or missed my point. I said keep the piano. But it just doesn't make sense, to me, to have an acoustic and then 'kill' it with pillows, blankets, felt, and so on. I don't completely agree with the your point about touch on digitals. Many high end digitals are now close, some would say better, than an acoustic key action, especially compared to an upright. But anyway there are the hybrids as someone else pointed out. So my compromise is to have both. But don't muffle the piano, just play it within reasonable hours and periods. Use the DP for practise, scales, arpeggios, endless repeated bars, phrases, with missed notes, pauses, errors - that's not music, just torture, and I would be banging on the wall, or more
Last edited by spanishbuddha; 03/29/13 09:55 AM.
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