Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Why Aren't Tier 1 Pianos More Common?

Apart from Steinway, Bosendorfer, and Yamaha (CF line), I hardly come across tier 1 pianos (Sauter, Grotrian, Blunther, Bechstein, Fazioli, etc.) in concert settings. I know that those other makers don't have the same output/presence as, say, Steinway, but I'd think that concert halls would be the place to find those brands. If these tier 1 pianos aren't found there, who actually buys them?

EDIT: I realize now that I phrased my question poorly. What I really meant to ask is "Why aren't tier 1 pianos more common in concert halls specifically?" I'm also willing to bet that most of the classical recordings I own (Horowitz's Carnegie Hall collection, the Ashkenazy-plays-Rachmaninoff concerto collection, others) were done with a Steinway.

Uh...well...

People with LOTS of money ?
To put them in LARGE houses.
Perhaps with more money than playing ability ?

Which might explain the sale of the "player piano" option... maybe.

Hi,

My guess is that you are located in the U.S. or Canada. In North America, that situation is certainly the case. But, that is only due to the fairly recent importation of the top level Eropean instruments. Times are changing, however, in reference to 9' concert instruments.

For pianists with the skills and money, all of the instruments you mention are found in many private homes. These are most often of the 7' semi-concert size.

Steingraeber and Shigeru should also be added to your list. "Etc." doesn't do them justice.

Most people cannot afford them, and for the quality of their playing, cheaper pianos are sufficient.

Discriminating buyers who prefer to own a BMW over a Cadillac...

Norbert

Hello,

I was able to purchase my brand new Shigeru Kawai very easily here in Michigan, USA. I was able to locate it easily and purchase it without an issue. I purchased it based on the sound it created. It is an amazing piano.

That's great! Yeah, I mean, of course people buy pianos for all sorts of reasons. It doesn't really bother me if someone buys an expensive piano just to have it as furniture instead of as an instrument. I was only wondering why the pianos aren't more common in concert halls specifically, and secondly what kinds of customers these brands have. I wish you many years of happy music-making with your piano!

I read the title and missed reading the edit. My mistake.

It depends on whether it's the BMW made in Spartanburg, South Carolina or the Cadillac made in Rüsselsheim, Germany

Yes - most people can't afford them.

But, I'd dispute this second point - that someone like me, who loves to play, but is only "average" and "ordinary" - should not be able to experience the joys of a piano which plays like a top grade piano does.

I had a technician attend to my previous piano a few times (he was the dealer's tech) - and when I pointed out irregular regulation and voicing, he pointed out that my playing didn't warrant any better, and that I didn't require ("deserve" implied) a better piano. Uggh. He became my ex-technician.

"I had a technician attend to my previous piano a few times (he was the dealer's tech) - and when I pointed out irregular regulation and voicing, he pointed out that my playing didn't warrant any better, and that I didn't require ("deserve" implied) a better piano. Uggh. He became my ex-technician."

That is the most dreasful, insulting, arrogant remark e could`ve made to anybody. And you let him go with his head still on his shoulders??

I hope his piano gets woodworm . . .

Sometimes it's easier to go with the flow. When he realised I was serious about upgrading, he pushed hard to buy the one his dealer had. I didn't even consider giving him the pleasure of a commission on a sale - and went elsewhere.

This is quite easy.

Before World War 2, in Europe, there were many brands of pianos in concert halls. The Royal Albert Hall had an Ibach, the Wigmore Hall had a Bechstein, there were numerous Challen and Chappell concert grands to be found throughout the old British Empire. In Europe you'd find many Bluthners, Bechsteins, Grotrians, on concert platforms. In Austria they have Bosendorfer and it still occupies a prime spot on their concert stage. Bluthner's new showroom in Vienna is also helping push the brand there.

OK, why Steinway? Well, simply, they had two factories. Everywhere else in Europe was bombed. Piano factories were prime targets because they were producing ammunition. So, when the Steinway factory in Hamburg bit the dust, there was still the factory in New York with all of the blueprints for the pianos. Everyone else had to start from scratch.

So, the main concert piano was the Steinway. Combined with Steinways aggressive marketing and the fact they were producing fine pianos (they still are), it became 'the' piano to have. In the US Baldwin had a fair footing for a lesser known brand as well.

Sauter, Schimmel, Grotrian, etc, these days are simply not well enough known, and pianists, venues and promoters in general like to stick to what they know - which is Steinway and Yamaha. Kawai still doesn't have a strong hold in the UK to be considered as a viable concert instrument in a major venue. Every piano I see on a concert stage here is a Steinway or a Yamaha. I see other makes when they've sponsored the concert, but that's it. That's not to say that the pianos are not good - they are often excellent, but it's the unknown factor. Also, there is, unfortunately, a bias amongst some concert technicians to say that anything that is not a Steinway is a lesser piano, and that other makes are just not capable of taking the punishment. I've heard this said of Fazioli, and it's completely untrue.

This is not true of every tech of course, and it's a general trend. When you go outside London, and you start to find techs that don't know what other makes should sound like, and they try to make every piano sound like a Steinway..... etc etc etc ....

So, in the UK at least, that's why it's the Steinway or quits. I mean, Steinway make a really fine piano, so for pianists, yeah, it's fine. However, it's nice to hear another voice. I love, for instance, Grotrian pianos, and Steingraeber in particular, and I've played some beautiful Shigeru Kawai Ex pianos in Italy, and some stunning Bluthners.

Another point which was mentioned in another thread on this forum was: Pianos for concert halls are not necessarily bought by pianists, but rather by officials or employees who may not know much about pianos, but have to answer to their superiors what they did with the taxpayer's money (or the money of the sponsor). And so they will select a piano from a well-known brand.

Because if they choose a lesser known brand, and for some reason, there are problems, then they will have to explain why they bought an "obscure" brand, when Steinway, Bösendorfer and Yamaha (all brands with a fantastic reputation) would have been available.

Pianists however will choose the instrument they like best, since they don't have to respond to taxpayers or sponsors (unless the sponsor is a piano manufacturer).

Steinways are ubiquitous in concert halls around the world because only Steinway has the 'Steinway Artist' program which more or less obliges (in USA, almost forces) Steinway Artists to play only Steinway in concert. Garrick Ohlsson ran into big trouble when he dared to play a Bösendorfer in a concert in USA (and he went on to play a Mason & Hamlin as well as Bösendorfer when he made his Chopin and Beethoven recordings for Arabesque).

In Europe, there are already a few pianists who have bucked the trend: Angela Hewitt now plays almost exclusively on Fazioli; Louis Lortie plays Fazioli when he gets the chance; Daniil Trifonov is soon to follow in their footsteps, as he gains more recognition and therefore more clout with concert promoters. Mikhail Pletnev played exclusively on Blüthner in the last decade; Artur Pizarro also played mostly Blüthner (and almost all his CD recordings are on Blüthner), though he also plays on Yamaha.

And I don't know how he managed it, but Pierre-Laurent Aimard played a Yamaha CFX in a high-profile concert in London's Royal Festival Hall a couple of years ago (which was broadcast live by the BBC), despite being the front man for a promotional Steinway documentary film (Note by Note: The Making of Steinway L1037).......

But I have yet to see Steingraeber, Sauter or Grotrian-Steinweg on a big concert platform.

Arent concert pianists tied to a certain brand via an endorsement?

Steinway has worked hard for more than a century to dominate the concert hall market. They have the largest collection of available instruments and it's a very expensive network to maintain. If you need an instrument in Peoria they have one available, my guess is Bosendorfer doesn't. Concert halls are run by business people not artists, their concerns is the availability of instruments and the reputation they gain by owning a particular brand. Thoughts like, "wouldn't it be interesting to play Haydn on an authentic Austrian piano" never enter their heads. And that's okay, concert halls stay in business because they're run by business people.

I answered thsi question because no one on page one had. I see now that the question has been addressed quite well.

...Rather have a Cadillac. (At least I'd get to drive it on the roads, instead of looking at it in the shop...)

"...when I pointed out irregular regulation and voicing, he pointed out that my playing didn't warrant any better, and that I didn't require a better piano..."

Just when you think you've heard everything. But you have hit a new low in a tech who can neither tune, regulate, nor speak civilly. The only remedy is what you did: say goodbye (or say, "Get out").

I would imagine you probably provoked him in some way, but still.