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I have a teenage student who I have many issues with:

- She has long nails and refuses to cut them
- She doesn't practice as much as I would like her to ... she doesn't practice much at all really
- She doesn't like to improvise
- She doesn't like theory
- She doesn't like to compose

She hates working hard for anything - she admitted to me that she's lazy. Her mum seems kind of angry at me, rightly so, I've spent the last couple of lessons talking to her, hardly doing much piano work because of one of the above reasons. When I try to do some piano work with her she tells me she doesn't want to or she didn't practice. I spoke to her mum and her mum said to me that it's who she is... and I'm not the right teacher for her because I seem to be one of those teachers who are like - it's either my way or the high way. I'm not really like that, I told her mum I've just run out of things to teach - if her daughter wants to get better then she'll have to work for it. Her mum compared me to her last teacher, her last teacher taught her all the preliminary stuff but now she is becoming more and more advanced and she'll need to work harder.

Anyway, the studio owner said to me that I should be like a personal trainer, change my approach and let her lead me. If she doesn't care about polishing pieces - don't, if she doesn't want to learn about composition or improvisation - don't, if she doesn't want to learn about technique - don't. Let hear lead - give her lots of repertoire and get her to learn it in the lesson. Piano lessons are about her enjoying herself ... I don't see the point of lessons if she is going to be learning something she can teach herself. I feel like she's gotten to the point where she's learned what she wants to learn. She made a very mature decision and said that she wants to quit. The studio teacher suggested I take on a personal trainer/motivation coach approach - get her to learn repertoire in the lesson and don't expect her to practice it. Let things slide. You're a motivational coach - she is perfectly capable of learning the repertoire on her own, but you are there to motivate her.

What would you do?

Does the parent know that the student wants to quit lessons, and just won't let her? In that case, I would explain to the parent that with the amount of effort her daughter is putting in, her progress will be slow. Some parents just want their child to have the experience of learning an instrument and are okay with very slow progress. As long as the parent is okay with that, I think that letting the student take more of a role in choosing the music and leading the lesson is fine. Pick easy songs that the student can learn in the lesson, and let her help select the music you play together. Slip some theory/technique in where you can.

However, if the parent is expecting rapid progress with the minimal amount of effort her daughter is putting in, that is a different story. In that case I would probably tell the parent that I am not a good fit for her daughter and they should look for another teacher.

It also depends on what you feel comfortable with. If you don't want to be this student's "personal trainer," then don't! Let the parent know that you have expectations for the lessons that are not being met and let them go, or recommend them to the other teacher in your studio that is willing to take that role. Good luck!

I recently read a book called "Working for you is not working for me." I wouldn't buy it, but it's worth reading if you can find it at your library maybe. It's about how to approach bosses who are hard to work for.

Don't we have two examples of this here?

You have goals for this student. But she has little interest in doing it your way.

Your employer has goals for you, too. And you have little interest in doing it his way.

It would appear this employer will not appreciate if you fire your student if she doesn't do it your way. He may be willing to fire you, if you don't do it his way. That's one of the problems with workig for someone else.

We know what the teen student doesn't want. What does she want?

The parent thinks I'm not the right teacher for her daughter. Her daughter wants to quit because she realises that she is wasting her mums money and my time. She doesn't want to take lessons from another teacher she wants to teach herself songs because she feels like she has learned enough. I do feel very guilty about talking for most of the lesson, but I felt like there was nothing more I could teach... so I tried to find things that interested her... talked to her about her goals, asked her why was she studying piano. She wants to be able to play the piano... because she wants to be good at something but she doesn't want to work for it. She's lazy and she admits to it. Mum thinks I am too serious, that my style doesn't suit her. She reckons the last teacher was much better suited to her daughter but I said the last teacher had her when she was a beginner, if this girl wants to get better from now on then she should work.

Tim, I wonder if I am the boss in this situation. I just think in typical roles, what normally happens in the case of a teacher is the teacher assigns material, the student does it. Working in an office, your boss gives you a set of instructions and thinks to do, you do it. Your doctor suggests that you take this medication you do it. You don't have to do it, but all of these people want the best for you - your teacher wants you to be your best, your boss wants to pay you, your doctor wants you to feel better.

I don't want to be a personal trainer... but I admit, I kind of need the income.

She just wants to learn repertoire, but she has come to the realisation that she can do it on her own without my assistance so she wants to quit.

The girl and her mother are your customers. Why should they have to pay for improvising, composing, and theory lessons if that isn't what they want?

So in a sense I agree with the studio owner.

I'm an adult learner, and if a teacher spent more than a little time with me on improvising and composing, I'd say "No, we're not doing that. I'm not interested". Because I'm not interested in those things.

A short, periodic discussion of goals makes sense and is beneficial. But I wouldn't pay for lengthy conversations about what the teacher thinks I OUGHT to want.

I think there are two problems here:

1. The student and her mother aren't in agreement about what the student's goals are.
2. You may be trying to impose your view of what the student's goals should be.

Like it or not, they're your customers. They can go elsewhere, and the studio owner can find piano teachers who keep customers happy.

I'd approach the problem from the angle of finding ways to handle difficult customers.

You sound very well-meaning and earnest. But I would say don't invest so much in it psychologically/personally. It's not worth it in this case because you can't control other people.

Sorry if my advice seems harsh; it isn't intended to be.

What repertoire does she want to learn? Classical, jazz, pop? Can you structure your lessons around what she wants to play?

For example, I am in a similar situation with a student who does not want to practice. He really loves the band Coldplay. So we have done Coldplay lead sheets, Coldplay sheet music, played a Coldplay song by ear, even improvised a song in the style of Coldplay. From there I can suggest a different song by someone else in a similar style for him to play. Sometimes he likes my suggestions and sometimes he doesn't. But it keeps him moving ahead. His parents are fine with the slower progress; they just want him to enjoy music and be able to play an instrument.

Another idea: would your student be open to a compromise, where you choose one piece for her to work on and she chooses the other? Like the other posters, I think communicating with the student and parent is key. As long as you are on the same page with your goals, I am sure you can find a way of moving forward.

And Nannerl, don't spend more time preparing for this girl's lesson than you think she has spent preparing for it. That will simply make you resent her. (All types of teachers fall into this trap now and then.)

If she just wants to play repertoire, give her a piece to work on. Expect that she'll only work on it in the lesson with you, and will have done nothing at home.

Spend the lesson giving her tips on how to improve what she's doing with the piece.

She gets what she wants, and you spend no prep time.

I agree with the studio owner in this instance because you said you need the money. Since you are not the owner of your studio, you really do not have a say in the type of student to allow to be in your program. This also means that the reputation is of the studio and not you as a teacher.

Do not teach her things she doesn't want to know. Do not have high expectations for her in practicing. Do not spend any more time talking to her (although I think it was important for you to talk with her previously - you found out some very valuable information and so you should not feel guilty about that one bit).

Let her select repertoire. Your lessons will be practice sessions and not "check-ups" on what she did during the week. Try to make sure the repertoire she selects is more of a lateral move in her abilities rather than progressively harder.

I think the parent is correct in saying you are probably not the right fit for the student, and has been good in communicating to you what kind of teacher she thinks is best for her daughter. Either you swallow your pride and become that teacher (and perhaps learn some other techniques to deal with motivating students) or continue as you are going with everyone not being happy about it.

Later, when you have your own studio, then you can make choices if you want to keep such a student or not. I have a few of these students and I would love to dismiss them (even though I enjoy their personalities and think that if only they'd work they'd have a lot of potential). But I can't afford to right now, and as long as they are enjoying themselves I feel I'm am still doing them a service. They learn at a snail's pace, and I'm constantly trying out new ways to motivate them. But I can't expect them to fit into a traditional lesson plan.

Is she your relatively new student that transfer from another teacher? I see you stated that the mother compare you to the old teacher?
If you have anything in mind such as dismiss her as a student and have another teacher in your studio to take over her, I suggest that you do it as soon as possible before anything goes sour.
On the other hand, if you like to work through the hardship and keep her as a student, your boss suggestions worth investigate and implement. As KS pointed out, you know what she do not want to do, and all you know is that she wants to learn repertoire, but repertoire has so many style, maybe you can spend some time to figure out what is the things that she really like.
In the worst case scenario, just think that you are very expansive "baby-sitter". You never know, maybe your kindness will influence her in another way, not necessary in piano education but in general.
I know it is not the best situation you want, but don't give up!

Excellent point. So, it is like a personal trainer. People pay personal trainer big money just to supervise exercise for losing weight.

In answer to some of your questions:
This student is a transfer student. The last teacher was going away to take a world trip and she was also leaving the piano teaching world - she was going to become a lawyer.

This student has eclectic music tastes, she likes mainstream classical, she also likes things in minor keys and she likes things that aren't too happy and cheery.

It's interesting to be hearing all your responses. It's funny, my piano teacher does talk to me a lot, even now, he's been a sort of mentor to me but he doesn't charge for lessons were we just spend time talking. I would do that too but I don't own the place and it works a bit differently. I know what my piano teacher would think - he would say that in correct technique sets you up for injury later in life, it is ergonomically wrong, students who just want to learn three chords may as well learn those three chords inside their own home, you are not a keyboard teacher - if they don't have a piano there is no point - he thinks it's ethically wrong to accept and continue them as students. I think I've been raised in his beliefs, I do feel like his apprentice.

My piano teacher believes that he is training students up so that if they want to pursue undergraduate studies in music, that could be an option. I believed this for a while, and a part of me still does. On top of this I think that students should be pushed so that they could be the best they could be in order for them to feel confident about their abilities. They deserve it.

Maybe I'm comparing all my other students to her. I taught 13 people, which is hardly anything I know... I know that students come in all different shapes and sizes but I've noticed this. Children are naturally more malleable - generally speaking they will respect you as the teacher and they will listen to you, this is often aided by the parent and generally speaking parents do want their kids who learn something in the lesson and to respect the teacher, then I have adults - I have only ever taught four adults - the majority of them are older than me and this has often made me feel very humbled, some of them have postgraduate degrees but all of them have respected me far more than what I could ever expect. They know that I go to a very good music school, they've seen me perform, every single thing I say is gospel to them ... If I assign something it gets practiced (unless they are busy in that week). Anything I say goes - they think I'm right about everything.

Thanks for all of your responses... It's given me a lot to think about.

Expansive? Or expensive?

Sorry, typo!

It sounds like you and the student see eye-to-eye:

. . . She doesn't want to put in the work to get better;

. . . You don't want to waste your time, or hers.

That's not a happy situation, but it's livable. She quits, on good terms with you, and you (eventually) find a student to replace her.

The conflict is between you and your boss, and it's about money. So I have to ask:

. . . How long will it take to find a new student?

. charles

PS -- there is another thread here, and that involves your expectations of students. But it really is another thread.

In my world, I'd give her tough love and force her to learn discipline through whatever means necessary, but unfortunately our society (U.S.A.) has come to the point where parents can literally see their children develop lethargic habits and even explicitly admit to having adopted such lifestyles and respond by doing absolutely nothing. Children, by nature, subconsciously want structure, but, when given none, can only respond in these ways; they're not to blame. Don't be another "motivation coach" in their life - there is plenty of this self-esteem boosting nonsense in children's lives these days. What this child needs is your "my way or the highway" discipline, but without the parent(s) on-board (i.e. without consequences), there will be no results. Thus, your only remaining option is to rub together the sticks that are intrinsic motivation (are you absolutely certain there's nothing remaining piano-related she wishes to learn) and hope that in time, the sparks will light a fire.


edit: my apologies - I thought you were in the U.S. Perhaps the plague of lethargy is simply endemic to those with unrestricted access to technology, this being the technologically-granted generation (quite easily a double-edged sword)

Just cut the cord. Dismiss the student. This sounds like a lose-lose situation.

Get in positive relationships with students. Negativity attracts more negativity.

Thanks for the insight bobpickle, I think Americans and Australians aren't cultured that differently. My American friend who has lived in Australia for nearly a decade said that when she moved here, she never went through culture shock. I think it's sad, for somebody so young with so much potential to have so much apathy towards everything (not just piano, every aspect of school is boring, not that interesting - requiring hard work) teens have heard every lecture under the sun and I have never lectured, I have just talked and chanted the same thing and it's nice to hear that she has come to her senses, realising that she needs to work hard and put some effort into piano playing - that is how progress works. I find it hard to empathise with the daughter sometimes, she's a nice girl, a bright one, but I just wished that she knew a thing or two about work ethic ... I don't know where mine came from but when I was in school I was the total opposite of her - I was that high achiever running on a lot of a stress and anxiety, I did well and cared about every subject, even ones that I wasn't very interested in. I was speaking to one of my friends who is a teacher and has been doing it for many more years than me (she is twice my age and we go to the same university) she suggested to me that I try giving her a practice routine. I hope she quits, it would be for her own good, I mean it would mean less income for me, but that's ok ... she's one student and I have four new students so it's not that much of a loss.

AZN you seem to have encapsulated what I was thinking. I spoke with the teen - her mum intends to find her a new piano teacher who would cater to her daughter. I spoke with her daughter and her daughter said that she wants to quit because she knows she's lazy and she intends to learn up songs on her own. She also said she doesn't want another teacher. I think the teenager is the mature one. I do understand the side of the mother - paying for somebody to talk to the daughter is kind of pointless and expensive, but for me pretending to teach is even more pointless - nothing to teach, the problem is in her attitude and work ethic. So I talked to her a lot ... about school (about how she reacts after an exam, about if anything in school interests her - nothing, she's lazy and she doesn't care.)

The mum I can tell is angry at me, not very pleased with my performance, when I told her the truth about the daughter she didn't seem phased by it.

It's a shame because obviously the parents are to blame for the daughter's behavior, but they'd rather excuse it and find someone who will deal with it and/or work miracles in spite of it. I still think you can do some things (listed in my previous post) in the meantime until she leaves - which I think may be inevitable. I think it would be valuable for you as a teacher to explore alternatives, because this student unfortunately, will not be the last of her kind you encounter. This lack of work ethic is running rampant these days and you can either dismiss each student who is like this, or perhaps find a way to teach them, gradually.