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#2056465 - 03/29/13 08:04 PM Does Baldwin still have a bit of glory?
Jason Zhao Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/13
Posts: 58
I always heard that Baldwin was once the best piano sometime ago, but then went into bankruptcy and got bought by a Chinese company.

I recently saw a Baldwin M1 Artist Series that had been used for about $14,500. The owner said he couldn't find the papers or any results on-line relating to the age.

Is this Baldwin just an Asian piano with a Baldwin name? I heard that this piano is one of the more popular baby grands.

Thanks to everyone!

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#2056466 - 03/29/13 08:08 PM Re: Does Baldwin still have a bit of glory? [Re: Jason Zhao]
adak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 282
Loc: Canada
Seriously, what? I know from your recent posts you are buying a grand piano. Why don't you just play the instrument and decide for yourself. Unless you are buying it based on a brand name, don't, cause your non-musician friends won't know any better and won't give a damn. (Do you also have some bias against Asian piano makers. If so I will disapoint you now and tell you they make some fine pianos, at the high end and the other end where they would be great value for the money for those lacking it).

Now if you play and cannot tell the difference between pianos then ask yourself what are you spending the extra money for, cause surely as a young man you can spend it towards other things in life.

(And for the story about the used Balwin, if it sounds fishy then don't risk it, there are thousands of used pianos out there, the one you are considering with that special story isn't that "special". Don't get swindled. I am only saying this cause from reading your posts you sound like a clueless teenager. And I don't mean all teenagers are clueless. Just you.)
_________________________
Casio Privia PX-150


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#2056474 - 03/29/13 08:13 PM Re: Does Baldwin still have a bit of glory? [Re: Jason Zhao]
Jason Zhao Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/13
Posts: 58
Well, I guess I just like hearing others opinions, I'm so indecisive I rely on others for decisions.
I guess this is one of those situations where I have to decide myself.
Nvm then, this thread is aboandoned :P


Edited by Jason Zhao (03/29/13 08:13 PM)

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#2056476 - 03/29/13 08:15 PM Re: Does Baldwin still have a bit of glory? [Re: Jason Zhao]
adak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 282
Loc: Canada
And don't be such a push over. No need to abandon the thread, just wait and get a couple of more opinions. You might learn something new. A grand piano is an expensive purchase for most, best have all the info and get what you want.
_________________________
Casio Privia PX-150


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#2056485 - 03/29/13 08:30 PM Re: Does Baldwin still have a bit of glory? [Re: adak]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19644
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: adak
And don't be such a push over. No need to abandon the thread, just wait and get a couple of more opinions. You might learn something new. A grand piano is an expensive purchase for most, best have all the info and get what you want.
Pretty obnoxious as was your first post in the thread.

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#2056491 - 03/29/13 08:39 PM Re: Does Baldwin still have a bit of glory? [Re: Jason Zhao]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3371
Originally Posted By: Jason Zhao
I always heard that Baldwin was once the best piano sometime ago,


Baldwin was never, by any means, "the best piano". There is no "best piano", and if there were, it would not have been Baldwin.

Originally Posted By: Jason Zhao
but then went into bankruptcy and got bought by a Chinese company.


No. It is an American company, and went into Bankruptcy twice. The last time, it was purchased by Gibson. Baldwin did purchase a factory in China, but still built pianos in the US until 2008.

Originally Posted By: Jason Zhao
I recently saw a Baldwin M1 Artist Series that had been used for about $14,500. The owner said he couldn't find the papers or any results on-line relating to the age.

Is this Baldwin just an Asian piano with a Baldwin name? I heard that this piano is one of the more popular baby grands.


No. The M1 Artist Series was always a US-built product. You can differentiate Chinese-built from American-built based on whether or not there is a "c" over the "i" in Baldwin.
_________________________
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M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
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#2056535 - 03/29/13 10:03 PM Re: Does Baldwin still have a bit of glory? [Re: pianoloverus]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3708
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: adak
And don't be such a push over. No need to abandon the thread, just wait and get a couple of more opinions. You might learn something new. A grand piano is an expensive purchase for most, best have all the info and get what you want.
Pretty obnoxious as was your first post in the thread.


Every post Adak makes is obnoxious.

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#2056544 - 03/29/13 10:20 PM Re: Does Baldwin still have a bit of glory? [Re: Jason Zhao]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6470
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Jason Zhao

I recently saw a Baldwin M1 Artist Series that had been used for about $14,500. The owner said he couldn't find the papers or any results on-line relating to the age.


Jason -

There should be a serial number clearly visible inside the piano. If you can get the serial number - you can find the piano's approximate age (see link).

http://www.bluebookofpianos.com/serial1.htm#BALDWIN
_________________________
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#2056619 - 03/30/13 01:03 AM Re: Does Baldwin still have a bit of glory? [Re: Jason Zhao]
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8585
Loc: Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: adak
Seriously, what? I know from your recent posts you are buying a grand piano. Why don't you just play the instrument and decide for yourself. Unless you are buying it based on a brand name, don't, cause your non-musician friends won't know any better and won't give a damn. (Do you also have some bias against Asian piano makers. If so I will disapoint you now and tell you they make some fine pianos, at the high end and the other end where they would be great value for the money for those lacking it).

Now if you play and cannot tell the difference between pianos then ask yourself what are you spending the extra money for, cause surely as a young man you can spend it towards other things in life.

(And for the story about the used Balwin, if it sounds fishy then don't risk it, there are thousands of used pianos out there, the one you are considering with that special story isn't that "special". Don't get swindled. I am only saying this cause from reading your posts you sound like a clueless teenager. And I don't mean all teenagers are clueless. Just you.)

Adak,

I’m actually not familiar with you as a member on the piano forum… you must hang out mostly on another forum here on PW.

Anyway, I’m inclined to agree with others that your post here is over the top in terms of being rude and obnoxious. I would caution you to be a little more considerate in regards to the tone of your posts.

Rickster
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#2056679 - 03/30/13 05:44 AM Re: Does Baldwin still have a bit of glory? [Re: Jason Zhao]
miscrms Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/29/12
Posts: 187
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
The impression I've gotten is the US made Baldwins (the Artist series later on) had a pretty good reputation right up to the end. It seems like they more or less maintained that "Baldwin sound" throughout, but did have some quality issues the later you get making it particularly important to get a thorough inspection by an independent tech. Someone here (or on the tech forum) can probably give you a better idea about specific things to have checked carefully. I seem to recall one of the concerns was changes made to the bridge, which can be problematic over time on some of them.

FWIW I think its smart to gather as many opinions and information as you can regarding a purchase this significant. Ultimately what matters most is how it sounds and feels to you (and the backing of an evaluation by a tech you trust is like a little insurance against a big disappointment), but it certainly doesn't hurt to go into it as educated as possible wink

Best of Luck!

Rob
_________________________
1874 Steinway Upright "Franken" Stein

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#2056789 - 03/30/13 11:03 AM Re: Does Baldwin still have a bit of glory? [Re: Rickster]
adak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 282
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Rickster
Originally Posted By: adak
Seriously, what? I know from your recent posts you are buying a grand piano. Why don't you just play the instrument and decide for yourself. Unless you are buying it based on a brand name, don't, cause your non-musician friends won't know any better and won't give a damn. (Do you also have some bias against Asian piano makers. If so I will disapoint you now and tell you they make some fine pianos, at the high end and the other end where they would be great value for the money for those lacking it).

Now if you play and cannot tell the difference between pianos then ask yourself what are you spending the extra money for, cause surely as a young man you can spend it towards other things in life.

(And for the story about the used Balwin, if it sounds fishy then don't risk it, there are thousands of used pianos out there, the one you are considering with that special story isn't that "special". Don't get swindled. I am only saying this cause from reading your posts you sound like a clueless teenager. And I don't mean all teenagers are clueless. Just you.)

Adak,

I’m actually not familiar with you as a member on the piano forum… you must hang out mostly on another forum here on PW.

Anyway, I’m inclined to agree with others that your post here is over the top in terms of being rude and obnoxious. I would caution you to be a little more considerate in regards to the tone of your posts.

Rickster


If I could help a young boy who is vulnerable and inexperienced be better off, then I feel it is worth it. That is how I see it, I do consider him when I write my responses, he only deserves honest advice and nothing less.
_________________________
Casio Privia PX-150


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#2056820 - 03/30/13 11:37 AM Re: Does Baldwin still have a bit of glory? [Re: adak]
Dwscamel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/22/13
Posts: 513
@adak: I don't know. On one hand, yes, your posts did have some real advice in them. And if you truly believe that you're trying to help the guy, that's great. On the other hand, you can do it without sounding like an Internet hooligan. I don't really care what you post/do at the end of the day - that's your choice - but it's not hard to be less offensive. At least you stand by what you say.

OT: I was just playing a Baldwin grand the other day. I don't know if it's U.S. made or Chinese, or the year, or the exact model (unfortunately). But it played like a dream. The sound was superb and crisp and the key action was light and responsive. For comparison/reference: I'm used to the crappy, cheap GHS action of my Yamaha P85 digital, and I've owned a Wurlitzer Spinet before. So I'm used to a very light action on my digital and a very heavy clumsy action on the Spinet. But the Baldwin was a dream! I would buy it in a heartbeat. The only caveat is that the sustain pedal was strangely difficult to depress. I've never had that problem with, say, the Yamahas or Petroff uprights I've played. If it's any help/indication about the model, on the fallboard was printed "...designed by Steinway and Sons" on the right-hand side.
_________________________
Casio PX-150

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#2056822 - 03/30/13 11:45 AM Re: Does Baldwin still have a bit of glory? [Re: Jason Zhao]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Dwscamel,

It would seem that you were playing a Boston, rather than a Baldwin.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2056824 - 03/30/13 11:49 AM Re: Does Baldwin still have a bit of glory? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Dwscamel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/22/13
Posts: 513
I just thought about it. You're right. Oops!
_________________________
Casio PX-150

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#2056840 - 03/30/13 12:29 PM Re: Does Baldwin still have a bit of glory? [Re: Jason Zhao]
Bob Newbie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 1555
This should give you an overview of Baldwin history

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS4JmhpgOJw

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#2056864 - 03/30/13 01:25 PM Re: Does Baldwin still have a bit of glory? [Re: Bob Newbie]
rlinkt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 320
Loc: CA
I will be the devil's advocate here :-) I found much sense in adak's post.

Jason, I did a very extensive passive research on pianos last year when I was looking. I did not ask questions of PW as you are doing, but gosh, I read up everything I could find on PW that seemed relevant. Between PW and PB, I wrote charts with price ranges, and brand positions, blah blah ... I looked at eBay and CL to get ideas about used piano prices. When I finally went to the stores, it all went out the window. The research was still a good set of guidelines for the purchase process, but its no substitute to going and playing the pianos. Comparing pianos across stores is hard enough (likely impossible unless you are an expert who knows exactly what they are looking for regarding touch and tone). Comparing them in the cyberspace is good for developing guideline, but please don't make a decision based of this process.


Edited by rlinkt (03/30/13 01:25 PM)

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#2057030 - 03/30/13 06:56 PM Re: Does Baldwin still have a bit of glory? [Re: Jason Zhao]
BGJ Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 163
Loc: Texas
I think American Baldwins can be some of the best pianos out there, they have a wonderful "dark" American tone. However, 5'-2" is very small and I recommend you consider larger used grands. The tone improves significantly with size. Baldwin L's (6'-3")are very nice and you may find an older used one for 15K or possibly even less. Always have the best independent piano tech you can find check it out.

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#2057089 - 03/30/13 09:09 PM Re: Does Baldwin still have a bit of glory? [Re: rlinkt]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19644
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: rlinkt
I will be the devil's advocate here :-) I found much sense in adak's post.
It's the horrendous tone of the post, arrogant put downs, and unnecessary insults that posters have objected to... and rightly so.


Edited by pianoloverus (03/30/13 09:13 PM)

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#2057132 - 03/30/13 10:57 PM Re: Does Baldwin still have a bit of glory? [Re: BGJ]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 2423
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
A well made Baldwin M will outperform a Steinway S in dynamic range, and clarity across the compass.

In todays market a GOOD baldwin M, R, L, or F is among the best used piano bargains you will find. The recent company turmoil has tarnished the brand even back to when they were well made.

Have any particular prospect inspected by a Tech skilled in tone regulation to know what you are buying.
_________________________
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible

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#2057135 - 03/30/13 11:04 PM Re: Does Baldwin still have a bit of glory? [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Originally Posted By: Ed McMorrow, RPT
A well made Baldwin M will outperform a Steinway S in dynamic range, and clarity across the compass.

And many of the newer designs out perform both of them!
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2057140 - 03/30/13 11:16 PM Re: Does Baldwin still have a bit of glory? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 2423
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
I sell used pianos that I select because I know with the work I do on them they will perform better than any new piano.

The highest state of the art in pianos in todays market are ones rebuilt by skilled, experienced and innovative technicians.

If there were new pianos that met my standards I would sell them.
_________________________
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible

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#2057236 - 03/31/13 07:49 AM Re: Does Baldwin still have a bit of glory? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Rich D. Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/27/01
Posts: 1268
Loc: Rehoboth Beach De. USA
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Originally Posted By: Ed McMorrow, RPT
A well made Baldwin M will outperform a Steinway S in dynamic range, and clarity across the compass.

And many of the newer designs out perform both of them!


And what would those be?

Rich
_________________________
Retired at the beach (well maybe not completely)

Anton Rubinstein said about the piano: "You think it is one instrument? It is a hundred instruments!"

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#2057256 - 03/31/13 08:51 AM Re: Does Baldwin still have a bit of glory? [Re: Jason Zhao]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Hi Rich,

I was thinking in terms of the new designs by Del Fandrich, Frank Emerson, and Lothar Thomma. I also prefer the small Bostons to the S&S-S and Bald-M. I'm not comparing build quality, it is only in reference to initial performance of small grands.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2057267 - 03/31/13 09:07 AM Re: Does Baldwin still have a bit of glory? [Re: Jason Zhao]
Rich D. Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/27/01
Posts: 1268
Loc: Rehoboth Beach De. USA
Thanks Marty. Unfortunately I've not had the opportunity to play the newly designed small grands. Of the older models I've always thought the Baldwin M stood out for it's size.

Rich
_________________________
Retired at the beach (well maybe not completely)

Anton Rubinstein said about the piano: "You think it is one instrument? It is a hundred instruments!"

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#2057276 - 03/31/13 09:24 AM Re: Does Baldwin still have a bit of glory? [Re: Jason Zhao]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Rich,

I agree with you about the Baldwin M and I would also choose it over a Steinway S. It's a fine small grand. I have always been partial to the Baldy 7 footers, through all of its various incarnations.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2057586 - 03/31/13 11:29 PM Re: Does Baldwin still have a bit of glory? [Re: Jason Zhao]
Nash. Piano Rescue Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/09
Posts: 389
Loc: East Nashville,TN Scottsville...
2001 - 2003 were about the last straggler Baldwin grands to roll out of the grand piano plant in Conover Arkansas. We had one here that was a dealer leftover which I think sold for 10K last year. It was very important to the buyer that it be one of the last American made Baldwins. The M has a good reputation and I think the R ( 5.8ft) is more popular with established song writers who have room for one.
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#2057829 - 04/01/13 02:51 PM Re: Does Baldwin still have a bit of glory? [Re: pianoloverus]
adak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 282
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: rlinkt
I will be the devil's advocate here :-) I found much sense in adak's post.
It's the horrendous tone of the post, arrogant put downs, and unnecessary insults that posters have objected to... and rightly so.


*Edited by moderator*

Adak, you’ve been asked politely to tone it down with the harsh talk toward the OP and you have not taken the hint… this time I’ll tone it down for you. Consider this another polite warning; next time you may get more than a warning (meaning temporary suspension from PW member privileges).

Rickster


Edited by Rickster (04/01/13 03:30 PM)
Edit Reason: Abusive language
_________________________
Casio Privia PX-150


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#2057836 - 04/01/13 03:03 PM Re: Does Baldwin still have a bit of glory? [Re: Jason Zhao]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
I always thought that youngsters were encouraged to ask questions. I guess I was wrong and should just dismiss their interest. I have seen the light.

re; Adak 7:3-5
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2057838 - 04/01/13 03:07 PM Re: Does Baldwin still have a bit of glory? [Re: adak]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3371
Originally Posted By: adak
Perhaps he needs a spanking to set him straight. Such is a boy, especially for one with no confidence and cannot make decisions for himself. Not a man. Just a boy. A boy deserves no respect. Only men can earn it.


The only person here who needs a spanking is you! Stop being a brat.
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

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#2057847 - 04/01/13 03:20 PM Re: Does Baldwin still have a bit of glory? [Re: Jason Zhao]
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8585
Loc: Georgia, USA
This thread has served its purpose and has become a sounding board for continuing verbal abuse, which is unacceptable.

Thread closed…

Rickster
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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