Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician
SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
Ad (Piano Sing)
How to Make Your Piano Sing
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
Who's Online
140 registered (Alexander Borro, accordeur, Achilleas, anamnesis, 42 invisible), 1836 Guests and 15 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Page 3 of 10 < 1 2 3 4 5 ... 9 10 >
Topic Options
#2059320 - 04/04/13 01:46 PM Re: WSJ article on N2 [Re: EssBrace]
Clayman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 300
Loc: Prague, Czech Rep.
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Originally Posted By: theJourney
If you were insinuating that Amsterdam might be filled with stoners, you were only partially correct: there are indeed many, many stoners here at any one time. But, most of these stoners are tourists from North America and other countries briefly experiencing what freedom tastes like.


That's a laugh! No citizen of the European Union is free - we are all living in the quagmire of over-regulation and nanny state "social democracy" - currently being fashioned by the German Chancellor in fact (but this time with financial leverage, not military power).

We in the United Kingdom, who are denied the opportunity to vote on our membership of the most undemocratic, unaccountable institutions rife across the EU (because our leaders wouldn't like the result), gave up all our freedoms when we joined the whole sorry mess.

So don't lecture us all about the tragedies of (a fragment of) American life. No place is perfect, certainly not continental Europe. Ask the Spanish, the Irish, the Greeks and Cypriots how much they are enjoying their "European style" freedoms at the moment...


Well, the Greeks, Spanish etc. have the same rights and freedoms as every other nation that is a part of the EU. Yet, I have not seen German complain about being members of the EU -- maybe because they actually produce some values unlike, say, the Greek whose economy is (or rather was until it collapsed) one big joke. The worst thing was that they lied about it. Now the German have to bend over backwards to make up for that.

So yes, the EU is not perfect by any stretch of imagination and many of their regulations border on ridiculous. But don't talk like the nations you have mentioned have been put in their situation by the "evil" EU. They are solely responsible for that. I repeat: It's their OWN GODDAMN FAULT!


Edited by Clayman (04/04/13 01:47 PM)
_________________________
-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown

Top
(ads) Sweetwater / Roland
Kawai Superb Stage Piano and Controller

Click Here


#2059322 - 04/04/13 01:49 PM Re: WSJ article on N2 [Re: EssBrace]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3866
Loc: North Carolina
You're right ...
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
No citizen of the European Union is free - we are all living in the quagmire of over-regulation and nanny state "social democracy" - currently being fashioned by the German Chancellor in fact (but this time with financial leverage, not military power).
Europe has swallowed socialism whole. And, unfortunately, the same is happening here in America. We used to be a nation of motivated individuals, industrious and independent. Now we're becoming slaves to the nanny state, dependent on government for everything.

Witness the fits over the budget politics surrounding sequestration. The socialists moan over a paltry $80 B cut (in a multi-trillion dollar budget) ... when we really need to cut a full trillion. But then, that would not satisfy the gimme-gimme-gimme crowd who live off the government. And all the while that same government wants to further raid my wallet by opening the borders to yet more gimme-gimme immigrants.

Socialism is the last gasp of a failed civilization, founded on losership. Most of Europe has already succumbed. And now America seeks to join them. It's disgusting.

Top
#2059351 - 04/04/13 02:41 PM Re: WSJ article on N2 [Re: MacMacMac]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
You're right ...
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
No citizen of the European Union is free - we are all living in the quagmire of over-regulation and nanny state "social democracy" - currently being fashioned by the German Chancellor in fact (but this time with financial leverage, not military power).
Europe has swallowed socialism whole. And, unfortunately, the same is happening here in America. We used to be a nation of motivated individuals, industrious and independent. Now we're becoming slaves to the nanny state, dependent on government for everything.

Witness the fits over the budget politics surrounding sequestration. The socialists moan over a paltry $80 B cut (in a multi-trillion dollar budget) ... when we really need to cut a full trillion. But then, that would not satisfy the gimme-gimme-gimme crowd who live off the government. And all the while that same government wants to further raid my wallet by opening the borders to yet more gimme-gimme immigrants.

Socialism is the last gasp of a failed civilization, founded on losership. Most of Europe has already succumbed. And now America seeks to join them. It's disgusting.


America doesn't have socialists, never really did. There is right wing, far right wing and predator capitalist. Obama is so far to the right of Nixon that he makes Nixon look like a Communist in comparison.

America has the lowest taxes in the developed world. Quite a feat when you consider that most of them go to the gimme-gimme crowd of investment bankers, corporate farmers and lobbyists together with the bottomless pit of military overreach to feed its unconstitutional standing army, spending more than the rest of the entire world combined on defense and weapons of mass destruction (and upwards of $8 trillion dollars on the fiasco defeats in Afghanistan and Iraq alone when when you count all the projected costs of the handout-demanding, crippled and brain-damaged veterans who expect to be supported by the "nanny state" for the rest of their lives for their tragic and worthless sacrifice).

What is killing America is not socialism. It is giving up " We the People " and self-government to become passive, consumer-serfs of global corporations that are the new voting citizens.

Top
#2059372 - 04/04/13 03:28 PM Re: WSJ article on N2 [Re: Dave Horne]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 327
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Boys! Boys! Your gonna hurt someone!

These are very difficult matters to argue about properly, and it's very easy to talk rubbish (it seems the more you move to the west and beyond the ocean, the easier it is).
Both systems (neocons/false liberalism and socialdemocracy) have deceived people, and both have developed false explanations to justify their proceedings.
It's sad reading some people's prejudices about Europe and its socialdemocracy, that has done a lot of positive things before selling itself to corrupt bankers (if you'll forgive the repetition).
It's even sadder to hear once and again that old chat about freedom and individualism, the State as a mother and the inmigrants, all toghether.
Inmigrants! In America! How they dare? That rich and egalitarian, millenial people with strange names (Patrick, James,Joshua...), food (those exotic pork chops!) and religion (imagine? they were all christians!) was there since the ice melted! And then the poors came...to steal it all to them.
And what about that "liberalism" full of commercial guards so that american products get well protected against imports?

This so called crisis (which is the greatest robbery-in-the-face ever seen) has put them all in its place, whatever the mask they were wearing, as in the past happened to comunism.

One good thing (among many others) has America that we lack: some "Bowling for Columbine" or an "Inside job" would be much appreciated here.
We all (americans, greeks, spaniards, irish...) have what we deserve...and a good portion of what THEY (corrupt politicians, bankers) deserved.

Now, time will tell.
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

Top
#2059374 - 04/04/13 03:30 PM Re: WSJ article on N2 [Re: Dave Horne]
36251 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 760
Hey, this is a digital piano forum. I'd say this thread has become to political. I say we write the pianist who had opinions and find out if she was influenced by Yamaha. But if we examine the pianos she was comparing, the AG was probably going to win. Does anyone think she would end up saying that the Casio was the best for her?
_________________________
AG N2, CP4, GK MK & MP

Top
#2059376 - 04/04/13 03:37 PM Re: WSJ article on N2 [Re: Dave Horne]
maurus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 843
Well if anything then this thread has become quite revealing about anyone's opinions, hasn't it? cool

Top
#2059378 - 04/04/13 03:40 PM Re: WSJ article on N2 [Re: theJourney]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3866
Loc: North Carolina
Huh??????!!!!!
Originally Posted By: theJourney
America doesn't have socialists, never really did. There is right wing, far right wing and predator capitalist. Obama is so far to the right of Nixon that he makes Nixon look like a Communist in comparison.
Obama is to the right of Nixon? What do they teach in the schools over there?

Nixon (and Reagan) were the last of the ardent anti-socialists.

Meanwhile Obama is most socialist of any President, ever. His entire life has been spent learning socialism and bringing it out in his politics. He admits it and basks in it.

Are you smoking something you can share with the rest of us? Or are you momentarily left/right dyslexic?

Or maybe you just watch too much TV? In America, television is so far left that people are blind to it. Is that true in Europe, too?

Top
#2059386 - 04/04/13 04:10 PM Re: WSJ article on N2 [Re: Dave Horne]
maurus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 843
See what I mean? "In America, television is so far left that people are blind to it." Very interesting, and revealing about the one who writes it.

On the marketing issue that generated all these outbursts, one would really wish that someone with true, inside knowledge would contribute. But so far I don't think we have seen such a contribution to this thread.

Top
#2059406 - 04/04/13 04:55 PM Re: WSJ article on N2 [Re: Dave Horne]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5282
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Since I started this thread I feel I can take a little liberty in adding my two cents to this discussion which has turned decidedly political.

I'm probably in a unique situation here, more than most of the individuals in this thread, as I'm American and have lived in the Netherlands for the last 18 years. I also served 20 years in a very conservative organization, the US Army, (though as a professional musician).

I lived the first 44 years of my life in the US and for the last 18 years in the Netherlands. Even though I pay slightly more in taxes here (I'll provide several links at the end of this message), I have no intentions of ever moving back to the US. The standard of living is noticeably higher here, period.

We pay more in taxes though not considerably more than my fellow Americans in the US. The roads are excellent, the train system impressive, health care - well, the Dutch are the tallest people (by national average) on the planet which speaks volumes on the preventative approach to medicine as well as to the food supply and general education.

The Netherlands, a small country, twice the size of New Jersey, is number two in agricultural exports.

The Dutch speak English better than many of our own citizens (certainly better than our previous President) and typically speak German and a fair amount of French.

Policy here is typically formed by those expert in the field of question and not by politicians; health care policy is typically made by health care professionals and not by religious or political types if you catch my drift. This is a generalization I realize but basically accurate.

The religious belief or lack thereof of a politician is not an issue here. The Dutch are a proud people and justifiably so.

Here are a few links to ponder ...

NY Times article on what it's like to live in Holland

NationMaster - a great place to compare national statistics on just about any topic

Gasoline prices by country

Now, having posted all this ... can we keep this thread, the thread I started, on track. smile

_________________________
website

mp3\wav files

AvantGrand N3, CP5

Top
#2059413 - 04/04/13 05:11 PM Re: WSJ article on N2 [Re: maurus]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU
Originally Posted By: maurus
On the marketing issue that generated all these outbursts, one would really wish that someone with true, inside knowledge would contribute. But so far I don't think we have seen such a contribution to this thread.

Nope, we are not in an economics marketing faculty absolvents forum. But seriously, I myself was previously involved a little in placing information about our own SW products most in local press and media and this thin experience is a good basis to imagine how it could work on the big scale.

I must confess, I found these whole shifting discussions very refreshing, the participants have only revealed, that so many contradicting affinities coexist with our common hobbies/profession. And some of us became just more flesh and blood personalities for me than before.

I also think, the professional side here is just much stronger represented than assumed, more silent or disguised, than the role of say KJ or MM or ATLPianos or DEL over there in the other fora is. This is perhaps why we don't find a Roland or Yamaha representative here. (At least I think to hear out some frustration due to the suppressed personality of the proponents.)

Why not, many professionals, dealers, etc. may and should retain their enthusiastic attitude along with their carrier.

Top
#2059423 - 04/04/13 05:31 PM Re: WSJ article on N2 [Re: Dave Horne]
Virgo Cluster Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/12
Posts: 39
Loc: U.K.
Hi all,
Before I try to get the discussion back on topic, like Dave Horne I have lived both in the US and Europe (basically the first half of my life in the US and the second half in the UK). I do not feel any less 'free' here! And once you take the cost of private health insurance in the US into account, my salary and living standards are not discernibly different than those of my friends in the states. In the 90s, friends in the states simply could not believe that I could pay my bills by direct debit before they could, or that my supermarket had a system of self-scanning items before theirs. So I have no idea what this socialism rap is all about.

But back on topic, recently I saw a newspaper article unrelated to music or tech, where a DP was referred to as a 'Yamaha'. In other words, as a generic name, like Kleenex for facial tissue in America, Hoover for vacuum cleaner in Britain, or Xerox for photocopier. I can't recall, but it was something like a property article where a pianist was moving into an apartment, and the advice was to "buy a Yamaha" so as to not disturb the neighbours.
_________________________
Kawai CS-9

Top
#2059430 - 04/04/13 05:39 PM Re: WSJ article on N2 [Re: Dave Horne]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU
I am living in countries of the old K.u.K (Austrian - Hungarian) Monarchy (half to half in Vienna and Hungary), lived previously fast a decade in Germany, but for a short time I worked in Italy too). The many strong differences between these geographically neighbouring worlds I am confronting day for day taught me to be very tolerant towards different political views based mostly on illusions. Illusions by which we are only equipped to cope with the complexities of modern societies. Most interesting to see how different the political themes in different countries are, the answers to them is secondary.

...<DELETED>...

I also would say, I don't want to pay my Taxes in Texas.

Top
#2059462 - 04/04/13 07:15 PM Re: WSJ article on N2 [Re: Dave Horne]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3484
Loc: Pennsylvania
I think calls to bring this thread back to the topic of piano are misplaced/futile. Such a large portion is now not piano related that it would be a waste if good piano discussion came up because those interested in it might be turned off by the unrelated political rhetoric.

I only called out the journey on the WSJ comment because it's patently crazy, but at least it was mostly on topic. At this point it's the most sane and on topic thing he has said in this thread. TheJourney, I don't know what your ties to America are (if any) but it's clear that you know nothing about it. No one who knows the definition of right and left would say Obama is left right of Nixon in any sense of the word. Obama and Biden were two of the most liberal senators (based on voting record) we had before they ran and Nixon was by no means liberal (if you can even compare political spectra over time).

It is a well-accepted fact that almost all media in the US are left of the mean. That can be verified by the fact that reporters, journalists, and editors are almost 100% democrat, which is our left-wing party. Where they are relative to Europeans is pretty much irrelevant. Politics across countries are not comparable. The issues are different and the people are different. Many people outside the US try to weigh in on one side of American politics for some reason, typically because they watch a lot of CNN or pick up cues from our movies, but they don't understand the issues and they confuse the main message of much of our media (that we should move to the left of where we are) with a very different message (that America is broken, or moving to the right, that republicans are sinister, or other such nonsense). Weighing in on stuff you only know about through hearsay (i.e., whatever media you have in the Netherlands) really just makes you look like a fool.

I just came back from spending some time in France and more than one person approached me and said "You are from America? Let me explain to you about the defining characteristic of America..." and then they would say the stupidest things imaginable (they weren't drunk at the time, by the way). You can't blame their ignorance, necessarily. They only know what they see in movies and TV. This conversation is eerily similar, though.

I'm sure there's lots of great stuff about the Netherlands and other socialist countries. Any differences are likely to have upsides and downsides--that's the way the world works. But it doesn't follow that the US should or wants to be the same way (or even that it could, feasibly). And it definitely doesn't follow that Europeans are in a good position to take a side in American politics or the state of business or journalism in America.


Edited by gvfarns (04/04/13 08:28 PM)

Top
#2059464 - 04/04/13 07:41 PM Re: WSJ article on N2 [Re: gvfarns]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9551
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
No one who knows the definition of right and left would say Obama is left of Nixon in any sense of the word.


I believe you may have intended to write 'right of Nixon' there.

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2059469 - 04/04/13 08:10 PM Re: WSJ article on N2 [Re: Dave Horne]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3484
Loc: Pennsylvania
Oopsie. Fixed.

Maybe that same thing is what happened earlier in the thread. Wouldn't it be funny if this whole thread-path was all a big typo and we are actually all in agreement?


Edited by gvfarns (04/04/13 08:11 PM)

Top
#2059502 - 04/04/13 10:42 PM Re: WSJ article on N2 [Re: theJourney]
Scott Hamlin Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/12
Posts: 570
Originally Posted By: theJourney
America doesn't have socialists, never really did. There is right wing, far right wing and predator capitalist. Obama is so far to the right of Nixon that he makes Nixon look like a Communist in comparison.



Stick to wrting about your own country...
it's clear you have NO IDEA what you
are talking about. Jeez.
_________________________
Personal Site: http://DulceLabs.com
Casio PX-5S Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Casio.Px5s/

Top
#2059543 - 04/05/13 01:20 AM Re: WSJ article on N2 [Re: MacMacMac]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
Huh??????!!!!!
Originally Posted By: theJourney
America doesn't have socialists, never really did. There is right wing, far right wing and predator capitalist. Obama is so far to the right of Nixon that he makes Nixon look like a Communist in comparison.
Obama is to the right of Nixon? What do they teach in the schools over there?

Nixon (and Reagan) were the last of the ardent anti-socialists.

Meanwhile Obama is most socialist of any President, ever. His entire life has been spent learning socialism and bringing it out in his politics. He admits it and basks in it.

Are you smoking something you can share with the rest of us? Or are you momentarily left/right dyslexic?

Or maybe you just watch too much TV? In America, television is so far left that people are blind to it. Is that true in Europe, too?


I don't watch television. I do read.

Perhaps you might read some quality newspapers and learn a little history rather than repeating what one hears on Faux News?

Not having lived in both Europe and the US and having no first hand experience of Europe is one thing, but not even knowing the (recent!) history of your own country is tragic.

Quote:

To hear Republicans on the campaign trail, the United States could not have elected a more left-wing president than Barack Obama, one more hostile to business or more eager to expand government power. Left-wing Democrats, I’m sure, would disagree. If they had their druthers, they would probably make a more liberal, more pro-big government choice. Somebody, perhaps, like Richard Nixon.

That’s right. The Nixon administration not only supported the Clean Air Act and affirmative action, it also gave us the Environmental Protection Agency, one of the agencies the business community most detests, and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration to police working conditions. Herbert Stein, chief economic adviser during the administrations of Nixon and Gerald Ford, once remarked: “Probably more new regulation was imposed on the economy during the Nixon administration than in any other presidency since the New Deal.”

Nixon bolstered Social Security benefits. He introduced a minimum tax on the wealthy and championed a guaranteed minimum income for the poor. He even proposed health reform that would require employers to buy health insurance for all their employees and subsidize those who couldn’t afford it. That failed because of Democratic opposition. Today, Republicans would probably shoot it down.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/05/busine...xon.html?_r=0#h[TrHSc,1]

Top
#2059551 - 04/05/13 01:54 AM Re: WSJ article on N2 [Re: Virgo Cluster]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Virgo Cluster
Hi all,
Before I try to get the discussion back on topic, like Dave Horne I have lived both in the US and Europe (basically the first half of my life in the US and the second half in the UK). I do not feel any less 'free' here! And once you take the cost of private health insurance in the US into account, my salary and living standards are not discernibly different than those of my friends in the states. In the 90s, friends in the states simply could not believe that I could pay my bills by direct debit before they could, or that my supermarket had a system of self-scanning items before theirs. So I have no idea what this socialism rap is all about.


"Socialism" is a negative, knee-jerk, red-flag, manipulative code word used in political propaganda in the US, particularly from the right-most side of the aisle. It doens't really mean anything more than " bad guys! ".

When you line up 10 random Americans from the street and ask them to define " socialism " you get 10 different but wrong answers. blush

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVz4VweMqFE

Top
#2059564 - 04/05/13 02:53 AM Re: WSJ article on N2 [Re: gvfarns]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
Weighing in on stuff you only know about through hearsay (i.e., whatever media you have in the Netherlands) really just makes you look like a fool.

Depending on how old you are I may have lived a good many more decades in the US than you have. Also, remember, not everyone has lived in only one country or is limited to having just one nationality.
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
I'm sure there's lots of great stuff about the Netherlands and other socialist countries. Any differences are likely to have upsides and downsides--that's the way the world works. But it doesn't follow that the US should or wants to be the same way (or even that it could, feasibly). And it definitely doesn't follow that Europeans are in a good position to take a side in American politics or the state of business or journalism in America.


It is true that the Netherlands is more "social" than the US e.g.:
- violent crime is a fraction of that in the US and the prisons are empty and being shuttered in NL while it is a growth industry in the US which has a greater percentage of its population deprived of its freedom and locked up in prison of any country in the history of the world;
- childhood poverty is virtually unknown while 30% of American children grow up in poverty;
- everyone is fully covered for affordable health care and free to be an entrepreneur and open a business spend time raising their family properly in the Netherlands rather than being dependent on commuting to a dead-end job just for access to health insurance (or risking suffering or dying without);
- there is more social mobility and chance to be able to study and work hard to achieve the "American Dream" in the Netherlands than in the US where children increasingly cannot escape the social class of their parents.

Interestingly enough, on many of the measures that people traditionally associate with "socialism", the United States is substantially more socialist than the Netherlands:

- Markets in the Netherlands are more open and liberalized than in the US which uses Chinese-style protetionism in many industries;
- Health care is 100% privatized through private health insurance versus only 35% of the US health care spending not going through socialized programs of Medicare/Medicaid/VA/etc.;
- 70% of students attend private schools versus only 11% in the US;
- rather than grand socialist projects such as the America's interstate highway system, the users of Dutch roads pay the lion share of their cost through road and gasoline taxes;
- AND, particularly important for this forum: rather than sports, universal grade school music lessons, band and choir being socialized and provided and paid for in government-run, public schools such as historically in the US, parents in the Netherlands must enroll their children in private music schools and pay their own way if they want their children to have a music education.

It is interesting to note that so many of the things that made America great are the grand scope and success of her most socialist monuments such as universal education, the Land Grants, Hoover Dam, NASA, the great State Universities before they became profit centers to scam kids for big bucks rather than to educate them, etc. etc.

Whenever too much naive trust is placed in unregulated, private markets we get the Great Depressions, Bernie Madoffs and the rest of the banksters that made off with our economy and our tax dollars, etc.

Top
#2059590 - 04/05/13 04:27 AM Re: WSJ article on N2 [Re: Dave Horne]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 327
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Yep, Holland is anything but socialist. It's a democratic kingdom, in fact, and maybe the cradle (one of them) for many of the good things that americans have (including genetics, which means gals)! And, I must say, a fantastic country where you can find the more polite people all across Europe (maybe because they are educated to be citizens, first of all). A little snooty compared to latins, but very friendly and kind compared to germans! Sadly, the hard right wing party has gained a lot of votes lately, but that's nothing strange if we attend to average age of hollanders, which is high, and how they feel about so-called melting pot, among other reasons, banksters included.
What I don't get is this kind of war between american and european, all of this anger.

About Yamaha as a metonymy for every DP: my teacher names "Clavinova" to every digital, no matter the actual make, and so others do, here. Maybe that pianist above shares the same prejudice.
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

Top
#2059626 - 04/05/13 06:23 AM Re: WSJ article on N2 [Re: Dave Horne]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9551
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
theJourney, excellent posts!
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2059644 - 04/05/13 07:41 AM Re: WSJ article on N2 [Re: Kawai James]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2423
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
theJourney, excellent posts!


If by "excellent" James you mean lecturing and holier-than-thou, I agree! And his posts are riddled with simplistic assumptions about the USA and rose-tinted nauseating rhetoric about the Netherlands. The anti-American snooty attitude of certain people really makes me quite angry.

And he labels me (and you) and all British people as "whinging Brits". The nation that is one of a tiny number of net contributors to the black hole of Europe where the EU institutions are completely undemocratic and unaccountable to the British mugs who are paying the bills. This is the Europe that pays farmers to grow crops no one eats - or pays them not to grow crops - and has artificially doubled the cost of food since Britain joined. And the Dutch have their snouts in the trough too with a vested interest in the continuation of the whole shebang, benefitting as they do by being the geographical host of many of those institutions.

Europe does look like a failing political experiment and the cost has been the huge withdrawal of personal freedoms, and that is my personal objection to it all. I make no comment about social provision or welfare or health-care in individual nation states other than to say there is more than one way to skin a cat and there is merit in different systems. But the political dogma that has driven all this change and the restrictions on national sovereignty and personal freedom is tragic.

Let's remember the EU was the brain child of Churchill among others, whose principle aim was to stop the Germans and French going to war again. A noble aim from a whinging Brit some would say. I see our 1000 years of unbroken continuity, history and heritage and proud status as an inventive and influential island nation state going down the toilet frankly. That's not all down to the EU, I know that - but it has played a significant part.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

Top
#2059646 - 04/05/13 07:42 AM Re: WSJ article on N2 [Re: Dave Horne]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2429
Loc: UK
I'm learning a lot. Confused but still ... Maybe we should include North Korea somewhere. Wait, I just did.

Top
#2059664 - 04/05/13 08:20 AM Re: WSJ article on N2 [Re: EssBrace]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
theJourney, excellent posts!


If by "excellent" James you mean lecturing and holier-than-thou, I agree! And his posts are riddled with simplistic assumptions about the USA and rose-tinted nauseating rhetoric about the Netherlands. The anti-American snooty attitude of certain people really makes me quite angry.

Correcting misconception and myths being thoughtlessly repeated on this thread by pointing to facts can hardly be called anti-American. If you pointed out your son's poor school performance on his report card would that make you "anti-child" or just a concerned parent?
Originally Posted By: EssBrace

And he labels me (and you) and all British people as "whinging Brits".

It wasn't a label, it was an observation of your behavior (and that of many of your countrymen, you are in good company). I don't see KJ doing any similar kind of whinging. To the contrary.
Originally Posted By: EssBrace

The nation that is one of a tiny number of net contributors to the black hole of Europe where the EU institutions are completely undemocratic and unaccountable to the British mugs who are paying the bills. This is the Europe that pays farmers to grow crops no one eats - or pays them not to grow crops - and has artificially doubled the cost of food since Britain joined. And the Dutch have their snouts in the trough too with a vested interest in the continuation of the whole shebang, benefitting as they do by being the geographical host of many of those institutions.

Tiny the Netherlands is also a net contributor to the EU and has consistenly punched above its weight for years.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/finan...t-is-spent.html
Quote:

The Netherlands: a net contributor
All the EU member states contribute to the EU budget, and they all receive payments from it. A member state’s balance of receipts minus contributions is called its ‘net position’. Some members states are net contributors, and some are net recipients. The Netherlands is a net contributor, and has been so since 1991. Along with Sweden, Germany and Austria, the Netherlands is one of the EU’s biggest net contributors. Per capita, the Dutch pay much more than other member states with a similar level of prosperity. The Netherlands is also one of the few countries to give the EU an annual statement explaining how it has spent EU money.

http://www.government.nl/issues/european...-european-union
Originally Posted By: EssBrace

Europe does look like a failing political experiment and the cost has been the huge withdrawal of personal freedoms,

confused Can you elaborate on which personal freedoms you have lost?
Originally Posted By: EssBrace

and that is my personal objection to it all. I make no comment about social provision or welfare or health-care in individual nation states other than to say there is more than one way to skin a cat and there is merit in different systems. But the political dogma that has driven all this change and the restrictions on national sovereignty and personal freedom is tragic.

Let's remember the EU was the brain child of Churchill among others, whose principle aim was to stop the Germans and French going to war again. A noble aim from a whinging Brit some would say. I see our 1000 years of unbroken continuity, history and heritage and proud status as an inventive and influential island nation state going down the toilet frankly. That's not all down to the EU, I know that - but it has played a significant part.


It is quite easy to claim that everything good about today's situation is because of the incomparable brilliance of the Brits but that the main reason why the UK has gone so much down the toilet is just because of the EU.

The world is a different place than it was just a few short decades ago. There are big blocks of mega-countries and economies that will determine the fate of their citizens. The liklihood that the UK, by going it alone, would become anything more than a has-been, cold island backwater, each year becoming more and more impoverished, is highly doubtful.
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
We in the United Kingdom, who are denied the opportunity to vote on our membership of the most undemocratic, unaccountable institutions rife across the EU (because our leaders wouldn't like the result), gave up all our freedoms when we joined the whole sorry mess.

If I recall, no one allowed you to vote for WWI or WWII either. Personally, I prefer the "tyranny" of being forced to clean up the environment, harmonize trade and treat everyone fairly rather than to face the consequences of WWIII.

Rather than passively whinging about how undemocratic your EU government is, why not become responsible and accountable and start actually taking personal action to make it better?

Top
#2059667 - 04/05/13 08:32 AM Re: WSJ article on N2 [Re: Dave Horne]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 327
Loc: Valencia, Spain
@EssBrace

Lol, 1000 years of unbroken continuity, the things one has to read! Now, tell me it was unplanned and that irish, scotish or welsh were waiting for that Great Britain to happen with opened arms. There's no such thing as milenary countries. Modern nations (states) are completely different things, so keep that old illusory pride in its closet and throw the key.
Funny how some of you, as TJ pointed before, judge others not knowing your own history. And hey, I'm quite eurosceptical too and understand perfectly what you said about subventions (whose goal is very clever, but has developed a corrupt market)and about how they stoled the votes against being (partialy, don't forget)EU members.
Again, no system is superior to others, and we can argue without anger. Can´t we?


I don't think we are anti-american, or anti-british.Why to be here if it was the case? On the contrary, is the condescendent attitud of SOME britts and americans against everyone what is annoying, specially when you give lessons to the whole world but can't keep your house clean, or even know how many rooms it has. America and Brittain have their "B" side (we all have one) and everyone interested on it can find tones of information, music and literature. Is Tom Waits anti-american? Paul Auster? Carver? Is Hornby anti-brittish? Frears? Come on.
Have you ever been to Spain? I guess you have. Do you need me to say what is the (superficial) image that you britts give, here? Do you melt with spaniards, or buy in their shops, or drink in their bars? You usually don't. You have built "little Englands" wherever you go, as Germans did in Mallorca. Btw, when britts came here, germans and dutches moved. Noisy, rude, drunk...Do I go on saying topics?
So, who is against who?
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

Top
#2059668 - 04/05/13 08:38 AM Re: WSJ article on N2 [Re: Dave Horne]
36251 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 760
How does everyone feel about religion? cool
_________________________
AG N2, CP4, GK MK & MP

Top
#2059674 - 04/05/13 08:46 AM Re: WSJ article on N2 [Re: Dave Horne]
MagicK Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/20/12
Posts: 70
Loc: Germany
I always find it astonishing, especially in a forum like this, where poeple from around the world are united by their love of music (violins in the background might be appropriate here :-) how small the drawers are, where every person of a country is put in.

One sentence i liked most here "A little snooty compared to latins, but very friendly and kind compared to germans". As a german i should be offended but it sadly shows only the inherent racism around us which most poeple won't even recognise as such. There is no "The German" as there is no "The American" or any other "The xxx".

You can say "Many Germans" or "Most Germans i had contact with". And if you would give it a chance you would see, that most of the time it's just the cultural misunderstanding, aequivalent to a dog wagging his tail to show he's friendly and a cat doing the same saying "get off, i'm angry".

So, continue to hack on foreign and domestic politics of different countries and give germany a bit heap of it, but don't think that every single person in a country is alike. That's just stupid.

Top
#2059679 - 04/05/13 08:50 AM Re: WSJ article on N2 [Re: mabraman]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2423
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: mabraman
Have you ever been to Spain? I guess you have. Do you need me to say what is the (superficial) image that you britts give, here? Do you melt with spaniards, or buy in their shops, or drink in their bars? You usually don't. You have built "little Englands" wherever you go, as Germans did in Mallorca. Btw, when britts came here, germans and dutches moved. Noisy, rude, drunk...Do I go on saying topics?
So, who is against who?


I have been to Spain and no you don't need to elaborate about the behaviour of a particular kind of "Brit" as you and theJourney label us. That particular kind of Briton is almost always English and the yob/mob culture shows us (for I too am English but describe myself as British) in the worst possible light. The behaviour of the "English mob" abroad is often shocking and disgusting and frankly shameful. And I suppose I have to accept that in parts of Europe that is our image. Very sad and probably beyond changing now too.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

Top
#2059685 - 04/05/13 08:57 AM Re: WSJ article on N2 [Re: Dave Horne]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 327
Loc: Valencia, Spain
You are true. I just wanted to make a joke about labels, but evidently it was the bad one. I apologize.
But, hey, I'm not racist at all (as a mediterranean, I have hundreds of bloods), I even didn't know there was a "race of germans", and the last ones who said so...Well, let's forget it.
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

Top
#2059686 - 04/05/13 08:59 AM Re: WSJ article on N2 [Re: EssBrace]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9551
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
If by "excellent" James you mean lecturing and holier-than-thou.


I was referring more to his examination of 'socialism' in Holland and the US, rather than the 'whinging Brits' post (which I somehow missed first time around).

However, while I am not terribly keen on theJourney's somewhat condescending posting style, I do believe he raises some very interesting points.

For example, the suggestion that Obama is more conservative than Nixon sounds ridiculous initially. However, when you consider some of the policies that his administration have enacted (or maintained), while also taking into account that of Nixon's, the argument suddenly becomes rather more valid.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/09/03/1013155/-Nixon-more-liberal-than-Obama
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/22/obama-nixon/
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2011/07/22/Barack-Obama-The-Democrats-Richard-Nixon.aspx

Originally Posted By: Bruce Bartlett, The Fiscal Times
Here are a few examples of Obama's effective conservatism:

  • His stimulus bill was half the size that his advisers thought necessary;
  • He continued Bush’s war and national security policies without change and even retained Bush’s defense secretary;
  • He put forward a health plan almost identical to those that had been supported by Republicans such as Mitt Romney in the recent past, pointedly rejecting the single-payer option favored by liberals;
  • He caved to conservative demands that the Bush tax cuts be extended without getting any quid pro quo whatsoever;
  • And in the past few weeks he has supported deficit reductions that go far beyond those offered by Republicans.


Unfortunately, Obama is not the liberal, progressive president that so many Democrats hoped he would be, and so many Republicans believe that he is.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
Page 3 of 10 < 1 2 3 4 5 ... 9 10 >

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!

Trade Regrets:
Barry "Bear" Arnaut

(ad) Yamaha CP Music Rest Promo
Yamaha CP Music Rest Promo
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
(ad) Piano Music Sale - Dover Publications
Piano Music Sale
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Daily temperature swings
by Stubbie
11/26/14 11:45 AM
New Grotrian 6'3" v. Steinway B
by chasingrainbows
11/26/14 11:17 AM
HAPPY THANKSGIVING
by musdan
11/26/14 10:07 AM
Book about Alice Herz-Sommer, pianist and holocaust survivor
by neuralfirings
11/26/14 09:20 AM
What does a dealer have to reveal?
by chasingrainbows
11/26/14 09:09 AM
Forum Stats
77053 Members
42 Forums
159366 Topics
2341038 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Gift Ideas for Music Lovers!
Find the Perfect Gift for the Music Lovers on your List!
Visit our online store today.

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission