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#2056572 - 03/29/13 11:04 PM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: fizikisto]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8369
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
We have received a number of enquiries from Mac users regarding a version of the VPC Editor software for OS X. Clearly the demand is there, so it's obviously something we're keen to develop. However, I cannot provide a concrete date on when it will be available.

Originally Posted By: fizikisto
James maybe you could let the marketing folk know that we mac users would love to have a bone thrown our way. smile


Okay, I'll be sure to let the marketing guy know.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2057215 - 03/31/13 05:58 AM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: Kawai James]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 1801
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Originally Posted By: Kawai James


However, even without the VPC Editor, Mac users can still enjoy the VPC1, as explained in the website Q&A:

x


James... Kawai needs to admit that this is a bad oversight on their part. Mac has always been king in music for computers. Kawai should be catering to Mac and allowing to settle for ms.


Also on music stand. Her is an absolutely beautiful piano with no music stand. To put it sarcastically....must be Kawai's fault.
_________________________
Ron
Ingrid, my beloved VPC : "Play it Sam....For old times sake...Play it for me...I'll sing it with you...Play me again, Sam."

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#2057229 - 03/31/13 06:58 AM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: rnaple]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU

Peugeot began to produce bicycles for more than a century ago.

Now we have Porsche Design Pianos, Peugeot Design Pianos - vote what comes next?

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#2057230 - 03/31/13 07:06 AM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: rnaple]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU
Originally Posted By: rnaple
Kawai needs to admit that this is a bad oversight on their part. Mac has always been king in music for computers. Kawai should be catering to Mac and allowing to settle for ms.
....must be Kawai's fault.
You can never know: Microsoft could have payed more for omitting it than Apple offered + some calculated losses with a few restrained Mac users.

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#2057238 - 03/31/13 07:58 AM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: Temperament]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 1801
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Originally Posted By: Temperament

Now we have Porsche Design Pianos, Peugeot Design Pianos - vote what comes next?


Porsche design is a joke. Porsche should be ashamed of themselves. They have more class than that.
I really like this Peugeot Design. I would rather see all the outside black. The inside, perhaps a little deeper, little pearlish white. I can easily understand how the sound plays right in to the player. Must be awesome to play.

Perhaps Kawai can work with Toyota on something? I understand why the car companies. They have the engineering expertise to design a case differently and make it work. They know about strength in materials and so forth. From their racing divisions. They've tried out these materials already.

Maybe Kawai might be interested in smaller designs for DP's? Contemporary designs?
Basically, I think the VPC's design is beautiful. Can't be improved upon.

EDIT: And don't forget Kawai and the Yokohama Toy Company. The completely awesome Godzilla Metronome!


Edited by rnaple (03/31/13 08:02 AM)
_________________________
Ron
Ingrid, my beloved VPC : "Play it Sam....For old times sake...Play it for me...I'll sing it with you...Play me again, Sam."

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#2057244 - 03/31/13 08:09 AM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: Vid]
UKPianoMan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/27/13
Posts: 43
Loc: London, UK
I would imagine Kawai opted for Windows first off because the majority of home users own windows PCs.
_________________________
Liam
_______________________________
Currently play on Casio CDP100
Plan on trying to finance a Grand Piano by the end of 2013 *Donations kindly accepted, apply within*

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#2057249 - 03/31/13 08:17 AM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: UKPianoMan]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 1801
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Originally Posted By: UKPianoMan
I would imagine Kawai opted for Windows first off because the majority of home users own windows PCs.


The majority of home users are not music students, or performers. Those people are by far, the majority, into Mac's.
A beginner won't buy a VPC. That is for someone who knows what they are doing. What they want. Someone already into music performance. These people, by far, work with Mac's. They always have.
Mac caters to music. The same should be returned.
_________________________
Ron
Ingrid, my beloved VPC : "Play it Sam....For old times sake...Play it for me...I'll sing it with you...Play me again, Sam."

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#2057273 - 03/31/13 09:20 AM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: Vid]
fizikisto Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 214
Loc: Hernando, MS
rnaple
Actually that piano does have a very nice sheet music rest, but it folds down when not in use. It can be seen in the promotional video on their website.
_________________________
Nord Stage 2 HA88
Yamaha P-250

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#2057277 - 03/31/13 09:24 AM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: rnaple]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3666
Loc: North Carolina
Made up statistic #1:
Originally Posted By: rnaple
The majority of home users are not music students, or performers. Those people are by far, the majority, into Macs.
Made up statistic #2:
Originally Posted By: rnaple
... someone who knows what they are doing ... someone already into music performance. These people, by far, work with Mac's. They always have.
Honestly, where do you get this information?

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#2057281 - 03/31/13 09:30 AM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: Vid]
fizikisto Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 214
Loc: Hernando, MS
rnaple,
I also think it was a huge oversight not to release an OS X version of the editor. Mac users tend to be very devoted to their platform (almost cult-like in some circles), and I think many mac users would feel slighted by this and take their dollars elsewhere. And you're quite right, even when apple was 6 months away from being bankrupt, it still had a dominant presence in the music industry. Now that macs have become cool again, I think that's probably only gotten strong. However, Kawai may be anticipating that this thing will sell so well that they'll have trouble keeping up with demand for awhile If they're still selling more than they make, they may not care that mac users are passing them up. But eventually those sales will die down. At that point, if kawai then releases a mac version of the editor, it may spur sales from a lot of mac users who were sitting on the fence. I don't have any idea if that sort of thought process went into their decision or not (probably not) but the decision will probably work out for them financially, especially if they release an OS X editor a few months down the line.
_________________________
Nord Stage 2 HA88
Yamaha P-250

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#2057284 - 03/31/13 09:34 AM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: rnaple]
slowtraveler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/12
Posts: 155
Loc: Chicago, IL USA
Kawai took a fairly big risk introducing the VPC1, a first-of-its-kind high-end piano controller. As a Mac user myself, I would like to see the editor ported to OS X as soon as possible, but I understand why they chose not to invest in developing it for launch. It's an easy thing to follow up with once they've gotten a sense for the market's response to their product. Kawai James has said they're working on it. I don't blame them for hedging their bet a little.

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#2057285 - 03/31/13 09:40 AM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: fizikisto]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU

You have got it, fizikisto, I also think VPC with a MAC SW version can be presented as a big selling point on the summer NAMM.

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#2057290 - 03/31/13 09:53 AM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: MacMacMac]
slowtraveler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/12
Posts: 155
Loc: Chicago, IL USA
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
..where do you get this information?


It's a little bit of the hyperbole for which Apple fans like me are justly (in)famous.

The best estimates of OS X market penetration (Gartner, etc.) suggest that OS X holds at most between 7% and 10% market share in the U.S., and quite a bit less than that worldwide.

There's no doubt that OS X is over-represented in the media and creative market segments, but even there it's a minority player in absolute terms.

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#2057302 - 03/31/13 10:31 AM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: MacMacMac]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
Made up statistic #1:
Originally Posted By: rnaple
The majority of home users are not music students, or performers. Those people are by far, the majority, into Macs.
Made up statistic #2:
Originally Posted By: rnaple
... someone who knows what they are doing ... someone already into music performance. These people, by far, work with Mac's. They always have.
Honestly, where do you get this information?

Hi, MacMacMac, good sharp point as often from You, again wishful or otherwise lazy thinking of us others...

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#2057310 - 03/31/13 11:16 AM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: fizikisto]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3318
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: fizikisto
rnaple,
I also think it was a huge oversight not to release an OS X version of the editor. Mac users tend to be very devoted to their platform (almost cult-like in some circles), and I think many mac users would feel slighted by this and take their dollars elsewhere. And you're quite right, even when apple was 6 months away from being bankrupt, it still had a dominant presence in the music industry. Now that macs have become cool again, I think that's probably only gotten strong. However, Kawai may be anticipating that this thing will sell so well that they'll have trouble keeping up with demand for awhile If they're still selling more than they make, they may not care that mac users are passing them up. But eventually those sales will die down. At that point, if kawai then releases a mac version of the editor, it may spur sales from a lot of mac users who were sitting on the fence. I don't have any idea if that sort of thought process went into their decision or not (probably not) but the decision will probably work out for them financially, especially if they release an OS X editor a few months down the line.


I don't buy this argument. If you wanted to limit your number of customers to match limited production, the best way to do that is to raise the price (and make more profit per unit). Then if your production capacity increases or you get a reduction in demand, you can drop the price and pick up the rest of your customers. I don't think there's any reason to doubt how fast Kawai can make these things - they are probably just testing the market. These sorts of products have never been big sellers, but hopefully they will become more common with the increasing number of software pianos.

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#2057320 - 03/31/13 11:39 AM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: MacMacMac]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 1801
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Originally Posted By: fizikisto
Actually that piano does have a very nice sheet music rest, but it folds down when not in use. It can be seen in the promotional video on their website.


Doh! And I saw the promotional video! Doh! Can I get away with saying that playing with the music stand down is all Kawai's fault?

Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
Made up statistic #1:...Made up statistic #2:...Honestly, where do you get this information?

Just walk into a university music school and start looking around and asking students what they use at home. Especially when it comes to composing. At one time, Mac was the only game in town. ms wasn't even considered. If Kawai could sell a VPC to one percent of the computer users out there...they would be in hog heaven. The VPC would be the biggest seller in the DP market. Kawai is addressing the MacIntosh people...not the MacDonald's people.

Lets face it people (and Kawai). A whole lot of those PC's at home are being used for not much else but internet and games.
_________________________
Ron
Ingrid, my beloved VPC : "Play it Sam....For old times sake...Play it for me...I'll sing it with you...Play me again, Sam."

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#2057410 - 03/31/13 03:06 PM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: Vid]
curt88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
But let me ask you what it is that you feel you'd NEED to edit that would justify not buying an incredible controller? Would you sit down at a Yamaha and get out your files, pins, and wrenches and start attacking it so it feels a little more like the piano you wish it felt like? Would you change the weights on the action of a Steinway so that the lower registers would play louder according to your personal touch? No.

I think you'd adapt. I think you'd adapt to the piano in front of you and just make music with it. You'd overcome and forget all about those really tiny things that you thought had bothered you about it and just play it and make music. Every acoustic piano is different - even those from the same maker will vary a bit from unit to unit.

The function and purpose of the VPC1 is to control a software piano; be it a sample library, or a modeler. Every one of these software packages has tools within them to make whatever tweaks to touch curves and the like. If one NEEDS to tweak, why can't it just be done there?

I guess I don't understand all of this complaining about what is DOESN'T have from people that haven't even touched it. I don't know. I haven't even downloaded an editor and I doubt I'll ever want to. I just wanna play....

Curt

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#2057429 - 03/31/13 03:37 PM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: curt88]
UKPianoMan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/27/13
Posts: 43
Loc: London, UK
That is your preference to "just play it and make music" also to never download an editor, I like to tweak my software until I find sounds I'm ultimately happy with because the option's to do so are available. I haven't the knowledge to adjust an acoustic piano but if I weren't happy with it I would pay a technician to adjust it accordingly.

It's not a complaint of not having the editor for Mac because if I were seriously considering purchasing one soon I would do so regardless, I suppose some of us are curious as to Kawai's intent on Mac release.
_________________________
Liam
_______________________________
Currently play on Casio CDP100
Plan on trying to finance a Grand Piano by the end of 2013 *Donations kindly accepted, apply within*

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#2057446 - 03/31/13 04:17 PM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: Vid]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1316
Loc: The Netherlands
I totally do NOT get the point of this discussion. It's rather boring to be honest and now we also seem to get lost into an even more dull Mac vs PC discussion. Perhaps we should we start an iPhone vs Galaxy S debate as well , to get more distracted ? There are for sure a few musical Apps that work ONLY on the iOS OR Android. Always very 'interesting' threads to follow...

To summarize and hopefully finalize - so we can go back to the experiences of the first VPC buyers and how they rate the instrument:

1) Right from the moment the VPC was released, some people requested a Mac version of the touch-curve editor. (That's ALL it is; only a utility to tweak some touch curves, apart from the default ones already included - nothing real fancy; the VPC will still work fine without it).

2) Right away Kawai acknowledged this request was noticed and a Mac version is either seriously considered or much more likely, already being developed.

3) In the meantime people with Mac's can use a Parallels PC , or similar solution if they really want to use the Windows version of the editor. That is if you're not happy with the default curves, which is a big "if" and if you really can't hold out till the Mac version is released. By the way , many Mac users already have a VMware or Parallels-like solution for other non-OSX software they might use and it is really quite common and accepted, so I don't see a totally insurmountable problem there.

4) Again, James stated several times that Kawai has heard you and the others and that they are working on it. So give it some time. Making this point over and over again , doesn't change anything.

By the way I'm a loyal Mac user for over 25 years, but still am very unpretentious in what Apple means in the big world of computers and users, which is far far less than they are trying to make you believe. So a little modesty as a Mac user would do no harm. I've seen too much bragging by Apple worshippers and the company itself throughout the years and the same pose almost killed them in the past. If they pursue the current " we're the best and ...the rest" attitude that they picked up (again) the last few years, the same decline for Apple will set in as the last time they decided to live in their arrogant Ivory tower. So a little modesty as Mac user would help; we're not as widespread and important as you might believe. For me I'm grateful if someone develops a good OSX app - but also fully understand it when a company decides ( by real market penetration numbers not imaginary self-importance) that the return on investment is not worth it.

Now back to the VPC reviews and how it actually plays , looks, feels and more. If nothing more interesting show up at Musik Messe , I'll buy one too for sure, regardless of the availability of the Mac editor. It's the keys that count and if I really have to run a utility to use the PC editor so be it. Just my thoughts...

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#2057509 - 03/31/13 07:32 PM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: JFP]
Marko in Boston Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 589
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
@JFP

"Now back to the VPC reviews and how it actually plays , looks, feels and more."

THANK YOU!
THANK YOU!

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#2057535 - 03/31/13 08:42 PM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: JFP]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3666
Loc: North Carolina
Precisely ...
Originally Posted By: JFP
That's ALL it is; only a utility to tweak some touch curves, apart from the default ones already included - nothing real fancy; the VPC will still work fine without it.
Much ado about little.

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#2057554 - 03/31/13 09:32 PM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: Vid]
dmd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1685
Loc: Pennsylvania
Well, I am trying to figure out what the attraction is to this product.

I have the ES7 and I cannot find anything that stands out as special about the VPC1 that isn't already there in the ES7 and the ES7 doesn't have to drag around a notebook computer to generate sound and a bunch of electronic equipment in order to get that sound out into the air.

So, enlighten me ... what is it ?

The velocity curve hype ? All that piano software stuff has it built in.

In fairness, I have only been using piano software with Kawai dps so maybe I have been spoiled ... but I have never used a velocity curve for anything other than making sure I can play very ppp volume if I need to. It is pretty simple. Just make it very concave and done.

Now, if the sound I will get from it will be great then my ears perk up but I think I will get the exact same sound I get when I connect my ES7 to my computer and run piano software. So, I cannot find any reason for a purchase.

Any enlightenment is welcomed.
_________________________
Don

My current system: Kawai ES7 + Focal CMS40 Powered Monitors, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 audio interface, Mackie ProFX8 Mixer, Ravenscroft275, True Keys American Grand, Ivory II American Concert D, Steinway Basic, Galaxy Vintage D, True Pianos, Pianoteq, Alicia's Keys

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#2057558 - 03/31/13 09:49 PM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: dmd]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3318
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: dmd
Well, I am trying to figure out what the attraction is to this product.

I have the ES7 and I cannot find anything that stands out as special about the VPC1 that isn't already there in the ES7 and the ES7 doesn't have to drag around a notebook computer to generate sound and a bunch of electronic equipment in order to get that sound out into the air.

So, enlighten me ... what is it ?

The velocity curve hype ? All that piano software stuff has it built in.




The attraction is that it's cheaper and has a slightly better action than the ES7.

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#2057562 - 03/31/13 09:56 PM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: dmd]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8369
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: dmd
Well, I am trying to figure out what the attraction is to this product.


It's what many players have been requesting for quite some time: a professional-class virtual piano controller with the best keyboard action in the business.

Originally Posted By: dmd
I have the ES7 and I cannot find anything that stands out as special about the VPC1 that isn't already there in the ES7...


The ES7 is an excellent instrument, however the keyboard action of the VPC1 is superior.

Originally Posted By: dmd
So, I cannot find any reason for a purchase.


Which I believe is testament to the quality of the ES7.
Please continue to enjoy this excellent instrument.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2057572 - 03/31/13 10:26 PM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: dmd]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3666
Loc: North Carolina
It's simple ...

Most digital pianos can only sound reasonable when played through a computer-based piano library. So why pay for the piano's built-in crappy sound? Get the VPC ... keyboard only ... and attach it to a computer. It's money well spent on a keyboard, and none wasted on a lame tone generator. It's a great idea.
Originally Posted By: dmd
Well, I am trying to figure out what the attraction is to this product.

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#2057580 - 03/31/13 11:01 PM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: MacMacMac]
dmd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1685
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
It's simple ...

Most digital pianos can only sound reasonable when played through a computer-based piano library. So why pay for the piano's built-in crappy sound? Get the VPC ... keyboard only ... and attach it to a computer. It's money well spent on a keyboard, and none wasted on a lame tone generator. It's a great idea.


Well, I guess if I had a software piano sound that I thought was really great, I would feel that way. The problem is that I don't. The sound I get using the software products have always been "not quite" good enough for me. I always seem to have to blend in the sound of my DP for a little crisper attack. So, I would be reluctant to rely on the software sound by itself. But, if that is the draw, I understand. I just do not personally value that as much.
_________________________
Don

My current system: Kawai ES7 + Focal CMS40 Powered Monitors, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 audio interface, Mackie ProFX8 Mixer, Ravenscroft275, True Keys American Grand, Ivory II American Concert D, Steinway Basic, Galaxy Vintage D, True Pianos, Pianoteq, Alicia's Keys

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#2057582 - 03/31/13 11:08 PM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: Kawai James]
dmd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1685
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
The ES7 is an excellent instrument, however the keyboard action of the VPC1 is superior.


Well, it must be pretty good because the ES7 action is just great.

Quote:
Which I believe is testament to the quality of the ES7.


It truly is. It has cured me of GAS. I am trying to find a reason to buy something but I just am unable to do so. Disappointing ! smile
_________________________
Don

My current system: Kawai ES7 + Focal CMS40 Powered Monitors, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 audio interface, Mackie ProFX8 Mixer, Ravenscroft275, True Keys American Grand, Ivory II American Concert D, Steinway Basic, Galaxy Vintage D, True Pianos, Pianoteq, Alicia's Keys

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#2058327 - 04/02/13 01:55 PM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: Vid]
Vid Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 705
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
As the OP its funny to see where this thread has come and gone.

MacMacMac hit the nail on the head. Why spend the extra thousands of dollars for a built-in sound that I'm just going to bypass anyways with piano software?
_________________________
Kawai VPC1, Pianoteq, Galaxy Vintage D

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#2058334 - 04/02/13 02:28 PM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: Vid]
dmd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1685
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: Vid
As the OP its funny to see where this thread has come and gone.

MacMacMac hit the nail on the head. Why spend the extra thousands of dollars for a built-in sound that I'm just going to bypass anyways with piano software?





Well, you would not exactly spending extra thousands of dollars by purchasing a dp which has its own sound. As I expressed, the ES7 is very similar in key action quality and it has a very nice sound and the cost would be approximately the same, maybe a couple hundred dollars difference.

To me, the hassle of having to "connect" to a computer to get a sound and then having to also attach to some external speakers to hear the sound, is just not something I would be comfortable with.
_________________________
Don

My current system: Kawai ES7 + Focal CMS40 Powered Monitors, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 audio interface, Mackie ProFX8 Mixer, Ravenscroft275, True Keys American Grand, Ivory II American Concert D, Steinway Basic, Galaxy Vintage D, True Pianos, Pianoteq, Alicia's Keys

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#2058335 - 04/02/13 02:32 PM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: Vid]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3666
Loc: North Carolina
dmd: You've missed the point. Someone (the OP) has made the decision to use a piano library. The hassle of connection must have already been considered and accepted.

As such, any extra spend beyond a keyboard controller is wasted money. That's precisely the target market for the VPC.

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