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#2062285 - 04/10/13 05:47 AM Re: Sight-Reading Boot Camp [Re: Maechre]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
I also +1 sinphilia's method.
_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2062899 - 04/11/13 12:49 PM Re: Sight-Reading Boot Camp [Re: Maechre]
sinophilia Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 1022
Loc: Italy
I got my new books smile Unfortunately I'm up to my eyes in work right now, but I will start the Hannah Smith's book next week.

I also got ABRSM sight-reading books for grades 1 and 2, just to check the kind of level I'm supposed to reach sooner or later.
_________________________
Diana & Wally - Yamaha W110BW
Martha Argerich... is an incarnation of the artistic metaphor of the "eternal feminine" that draws us upward. (Sergio Sablich)

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#2063267 - 04/12/13 02:44 AM Re: Sight-Reading Boot Camp [Re: Maechre]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Exciting! I love new books! smile
_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2063408 - 04/12/13 10:41 AM Re: Sight-Reading Boot Camp [Re: sinophilia]
malkin Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2754
Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
Originally Posted By: sinophilia

I also got ABRSM sight-reading books for grades 1 and 2, just to check the kind of level I'm supposed to reach sooner or later.


I think these are the same ones I have in the ipad app. I work them at mm=42 (don't laugh!) and plan to start over at a faster tempo when i finish them.
_________________________
A good student is one who makes the teacher feel like a good teacher.

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#2063418 - 04/12/13 10:58 AM Re: Sight-Reading Boot Camp [Re: malkin]
Mete Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/13/13
Posts: 45
Loc: Turkey
Originally Posted By: malkin
Originally Posted By: sinophilia

I also got ABRSM sight-reading books for grades 1 and 2, just to check the kind of level I'm supposed to reach sooner or later.


I think these are the same ones I have in the ipad app. I work them at mm=42 (don't laugh!) and plan to start over at a faster tempo when i finish them.


I do it at about 40-50. It's amazing how you notice your mistakes when you're that slow.

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#2063453 - 04/12/13 11:51 AM Re: Sight-Reading Boot Camp [Re: Maechre]
malkin Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2754
Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
If I try to go faster, I can't even keep up to even make any mistakes!
_________________________
A good student is one who makes the teacher feel like a good teacher.

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#2063819 - 04/13/13 01:33 AM Re: Sight-Reading Boot Camp [Re: Maechre]
earlofmar Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/21/13
Posts: 1776
Loc: Australia
Ok sight reading bootcampers. As most of you have more time at the piano under the belt than myself there are several burning questions I have:

1. I have searched intently on the web for any blog, site or book describing the sight reading process so I have read just about every "the ten principles" or the "just exercise more" pages. I am interested in what my brain should be doing as I approach the piece. Has anyone found any reading matter on the subject worthy of sharing (also read Super Secrets of Sight Reading & Fundamental of Piano Practice.

2. I feel I may be in a bit of a slump as far as my SR is concerned which is probably why query 1 is there. So my next question is can you remember when your sight reading made a sudden improvement and could you put it down to any changes you had made.
_________________________
I thought I understood endurance sport; then I took up piano
XXXV-6-XXX

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#2063851 - 04/13/13 03:47 AM Re: Sight-Reading Boot Camp [Re: Maechre]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
I'll answer number 2.

It wasn't very sudden, but the biggest improvement I made after a year of using sight-reading books was when I stopped using those books and started reading through Big-Note books slowly. The critical thing that the method books were missing was the fact that you have to stay on one particular level for long enough so that you actually become proficient. 80 pages isn't enough. You need hundreds.
_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2063856 - 04/13/13 04:08 AM Re: Sight-Reading Boot Camp [Re: Maechre]
earlofmar Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/21/13
Posts: 1776
Loc: Australia
That makes a lot of sense Maechre
_________________________
I thought I understood endurance sport; then I took up piano
XXXV-6-XXX

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#2082273 - 05/14/13 05:13 AM Re: Sight-Reading Boot Camp [Re: Maechre]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
I've returned to the boot camp to update with the original intent of the thread -- to post videos of sight-reading. It wasn't easy to start because it involved creating a whole new email address, and a third Youtube account, but I did it today anyway. So here's the first video.

I hope others will come to post their own videos. We're not here to judge, but to encourage. We're all at different levels and sight-reading is a tricky business. First attempt, second, third? Let us know. Four might be pushing it. This was my first attempt -- I should have looked it over first, and checked the key signature.

_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2082328 - 05/14/13 08:58 AM Re: Sight-Reading Boot Camp [Re: Maechre]
sinophilia Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 1022
Loc: Italy
wow Maechre, that's great!

I'm religiously doing about a page of Hannah Smith every day and I'm loving it. I'm just at no. 119 but I feel I've improved!
_________________________
Diana & Wally - Yamaha W110BW
Martha Argerich... is an incarnation of the artistic metaphor of the "eternal feminine" that draws us upward. (Sergio Sablich)

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#2082341 - 05/14/13 09:24 AM Re: Sight-Reading Boot Camp [Re: Maechre]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Thanks, sinophilia!

Nice, I'm so glad you're keeping up with it. Maybe when you're feeling even more confident you could post a video or sound file. smile I'll post more videos soon.
_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2082344 - 05/14/13 09:31 AM Re: Sight-Reading Boot Camp [Re: Maechre]
sinophilia Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 1022
Loc: Italy
Yeah well it will need some more time for videos! I'm definitely more willing to read stuff I don't know - yesterday I tried out the Chinese anthem and Bach's Bourrée in E minor smile - but everything is so above my level that I could never read hands together. It definitely helps to learn new things faster though!
_________________________
Diana & Wally - Yamaha W110BW
Martha Argerich... is an incarnation of the artistic metaphor of the "eternal feminine" that draws us upward. (Sergio Sablich)

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#2082351 - 05/14/13 09:54 AM Re: Sight-Reading Boot Camp [Re: Maechre]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Sure does! It's helping me learn harder pieces quicker because I don't have to decode them, even if I still have to work on them hands separately. Hands together... I think if you keep with the exercises you'll get there. smile It's all in going slow and not worrying about the speed. Like the one I played, it's quite a lot slower than the original, because I'm just trying to build my accuracy. smile

I'm hoping to continue posting videos, and to keep this thread going, and people can pop in when they want for tips or to share something they worked on when they're ready.
_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2082367 - 05/14/13 10:44 AM Re: Sight-Reading Boot Camp [Re: Maechre]
carolinagirl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/01/13
Posts: 54
If it's not too late, I'd like to join in on this. I started playing piano about a month ago. I can pick my way through easy pieces, including a simplified version of Fur Elise. I am taking lessons once a week but need to find a teacher that's closer to home. Where do I start? I have so much to learn!
_________________________
Yamaha CLP 440 Delivered on April 16 2013
Started playing piano April 16 2013

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#2082375 - 05/14/13 10:55 AM Re: Sight-Reading Boot Camp [Re: Maechre]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Welcome! I'm eager for more people to join. Definitely worth discussing this with your teacher, as they'll know where you are and where to start. And if you are looking for some tips, we'll be here as well. smile

This thread is a pretty good gold mine itself, but there are many others on this forum if you do a search. I've read every thread here on sight-reading, plus a book and studies, and watched videos, all while trying to work my way through sight-reading methods and easy piano books. Now based on my practise and the information I have, I pick and choose from different theories until I find out what works for me. But I don't think all of that's necessary. I just wanted to improve so much.
_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2082609 - 05/14/13 06:32 PM Re: Sight-Reading Boot Camp [Re: Maechre]
earlofmar Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/21/13
Posts: 1776
Loc: Australia
Maechre you mentioned earlier using big note books for bulk reading material. Any you would recommend and one of the problems I often find with the "easy" books is the melody if fine but there either is no bass clef or the bass just shows basic chords
_________________________
I thought I understood endurance sport; then I took up piano
XXXV-6-XXX

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#2082683 - 05/14/13 09:28 PM Re: Sight-Reading Boot Camp [Re: Maechre]
Michael_99 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 935
Loc: Canada Alberta
Maechre, I have read your post, here:

SO WHO'S IN?

Let's support each other in the endless journey to sight-reading improvement!

If enough people are interested, I'll go ahead and make myself a new email address and Youtube account, this one devoted only to my sight-reading. The idea is that one piece of pure sight-reading every day or so would be uploaded to Youtube and shared on this thread.

This way we can all support each other in our journey. I know my videos may be riddled with mistakes and painfully slow, but that's all part of learning to sight-read, isn't it?

_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it, even if it takes ten years.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

__________________________________


Sometimes, I just don't understand.

When you first start learning to play the piano, you open a book and you slowly read and say the notes as you play them. Everyday you play that piece you have learned, and then you add a new piece that you read and say the notes as you play them. So from the start of your piano book you keep playing the old pieces you have learned and you add a new piece.
And for the rest of your piano life, you keep playing the old stuff you have learned and add a new piece. So at any point in your journey, you are playing old stuff and adding a new piece to the pile of pieces you have learned. When I add the new piece, I have to play it a little bit slower than the other pieces I have learned over days, weeks, months, years - depending long you have been playing - but you can read and play every piece you have learned - and the new piece you can read and play it, too, but you have to read and play it a little bit slower the first time through to ensure that you make no mistakes and because it is a new piece.

So I don't understand what sight reading boot camp is all about because I don't undersand how someone would not be able to read their next new piece they are about to learn. Let us say you are at grade 7 music then you would learn new pieces that are around grade 7. Obviously, if you are playing at grade 7 and you are trying to read grade 10 or grade 12 or grade 15 - if they exist - that you have a difficult time trying to play at levels you have not reached yet. So what do you think it is that I am not understanding. What am I missing about sight reading. Thanks for any help.



Edited by Michael_99 (05/14/13 09:39 PM)

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#2082785 - 05/14/13 10:45 PM Re: Sight-Reading Boot Camp [Re: Michael_99]
earlofmar Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/21/13
Posts: 1776
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Michael_99

Sometimes, I just don't understand.

When you first start learning to play the piano, you open a book and you slowly read and say the notes as you play them. Everyday you play that piece you have learned, and then you add a new piece that you read and say the notes as you play them. So from the start of your piano book you keep playing the old pieces you have learned and you add a new piece.
And for the rest of your piano life, you keep playing the old stuff you have learned and add a new piece. So at any point in your journey, you are playing old stuff and adding a new piece to the pile of pieces you have learned. When I add the new piece, I have to play it a little bit slower than the other pieces I have learned over days, weeks, months, years - depending long you have been playing - but you can read and play every piece you have learned - and the new piece you can read and play it, too, but you have to read and play it a little bit slower the first time through to ensure that you make no mistakes and because it is a new piece.

So I don't understand what sight reading boot camp is all about because I don't undersand how someone would not be able to read their next new piece they are about to learn. Let us say you are at grade 7 music then you would learn new pieces that are around grade 7. Obviously, if you are playing at grade 7 and you are trying to read grade 10 or grade 12 or grade 15 - if they exist - that you have a difficult time trying to play at levels you have not reached yet. So what do you think it is that I am not understanding. What am I missing about sight reading. Thanks for any help.




Michael_99 what you are describing, learning a new piece by reading the notes slowly is described as decoding, right. Sight reading is the ability to read & play a never seen before piece at tempo, and the idea of this thread is to support anyone who wishes to contribute in their journey towards that goal.
I guess for some people reading at speed is not necessary or important but it is a highly desirable skill if you have the many years it takes to even become half good at it.
_________________________
I thought I understood endurance sport; then I took up piano
XXXV-6-XXX

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#2082829 - 05/15/13 12:18 AM Re: Sight-Reading Boot Camp [Re: earlofmar]
Michael_99 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 935
Loc: Canada Alberta
earlofmar, I have read your post, here:


Michael_99 what you are describing, learning a new piece by reading the notes slowly is described as decoding, right. Sight reading is the ability to read & play a never seen before piece at tempo, and the idea of this thread is to support anyone who wishes to contribute in their journey towards that goal.

________________________________________

Thanks, earlofmar, I understand.



But, earlofmar, when you say

--->I guess for some people reading at speed is not necessary or important but it is a highly desirable skill if you have the many years it takes to even become half good at it.

----> a highly desirable skill if you have the many years it takes to even become half good at it.

I am only a beginner, but if I reached grade 10, then I would able to read and play lots of music because a lot of it would be at grade 10 - so anybody at grade 10 would have a great advantage because of their years of playing to get to grade 10.

So I guess what I am saying is that sight reading speed is based on the piano player's ability to read and play the music at their level. A piano player cannot read/sight read music that is beyond is ability to play the music. In other words you can't sight read music that is more difficult than you can play. A person's ability to sight read is limited by his level of playing the piano.

In other words you can't sight read fast any music that is beyond your ability to play. Music that is at your level you could read it quickly and you can play it for the first time.

If you opened a beginner's book of piano you could sight read new pieces you have never seen before, but it is easy music because it was at a beginner level and now you are reading and playing 4 or 5 levels beyond the beginner level.
_____________________________________________________


Edited by Michael_99 (05/15/13 12:29 AM)

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#2082830 - 05/15/13 12:22 AM Re: Sight-Reading Boot Camp [Re: Maechre]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
michael: earlofmar has it right.

earlofmar: Yes, the two big-note books I have involve both static and moving bass in every piece.

"100 Best Loved Piano Solos"
"Best Songs Ever"

That's also about 480 pages worth of material. smile
_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2082835 - 05/15/13 12:35 AM Re: Sight-Reading Boot Camp [Re: Michael_99]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Michael_99

I am only a beginner, but if I reached grade 10, then I would able to read and play lots of music because a lot of it would be at grade 10 - so anybody at grade 10 would have a great advantage because of their years of playing to get to grade 10.

So I guess what I am saying is that sight reading speed is based on the piano player's ability to read and play the music at their level. A piano player cannot read/sight read music that is beyond is ability to play the music. In other words you can't sight read music that is more difficult than you can play. A person's ability to sight read is limited by his level of playing the piano.

It's true that you can't sight-read any higher than your technical ability. The rest of your statement isn't as hard and fast, though. One's ability to play a piece of music the first time they've ever seen it (even after looking at it for a while) is hardly ever on par with their playing ability. I'm studying an Advanced Diploma of Music, yet my sight-reading is at the level you see in my video. I played a Grade 6 (AMEB) piece for my audition, but I can't sight-read at a Grade 6 level. In exams, you are given a piece to sight-read that is TWO levels below yours, eg. in a Grade 6 exam, you will be expected to read a Grade 4 piece.

Since the development of sight-reading skill is such a slow process, and learning new pieces and scales, etc. to advance through grades is relatively fast, your sight-reading probably won't catch up with your technical ability in order for this to become a problem.

You can stay if you want. This thread is here to support people working on their sight-reading, and discussion on how to improve. We know that sight-reading skill doesn't just magically evolve. It requires dedicated work.


Edited by Maechre (05/15/13 12:38 AM)
_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2082836 - 05/15/13 12:35 AM Re: Sight-Reading Boot Camp [Re: Maechre]
Michael_99 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 935
Loc: Canada Alberta
Maechre I have read your comment, here:

michael: earlofmar has it right.

Maechre, what does the "it" stand for - earlofmar has it right.

thanks for any feedback, cheers

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#2082837 - 05/15/13 12:40 AM Re: Sight-Reading Boot Camp [Re: Maechre]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
"It" stands for his description of sight-reading and the purpose of this thread.
_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2082848 - 05/15/13 01:24 AM Re: Sight-Reading Boot Camp [Re: Maechre]
earlofmar Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/21/13
Posts: 1776
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Maechre
michael: earlofmar has it right.

earlofmar: Yes, the two big-note books I have involve both static and moving bass in every piece.

"100 Best Loved Piano Solos"
"Best Songs Ever"

That's also about 480 pages worth of material. smile


I ordered "100 Best Loved Piano Solos", have plenty of material but it's nice to mix it up a bit
_________________________
I thought I understood endurance sport; then I took up piano
XXXV-6-XXX

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#2082894 - 05/15/13 03:30 AM Re: Sight-Reading Boot Camp [Re: Maechre]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Cool, let me know how it goes. I'll be posting a video later.
_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2082924 - 05/15/13 06:01 AM Re: Sight-Reading Boot Camp [Re: Maechre]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Here we are. I ran through this once before recording, and the first page a second time. Still made heaps of mistakes -- I honestly restarted a couple of times just because I did the beginning so badly. So this one isn't technically sight-reading, but using what skill you do have to learn a piece quickly is also important. The cool thing about recording it is that you have to play through the mistakes and get to the end. smile

_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2083640 - 05/16/13 11:33 AM Re: Sight-Reading Boot Camp [Re: Maechre]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
I feel better about this one. smile

_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2083995 - 05/17/13 04:53 AM Re: Sight-Reading Boot Camp [Re: Maechre]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
And today's contribution. smile I was happy with this one, and I'm pretty sure it's almost at speed.

_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2083997 - 05/17/13 04:59 AM Re: Sight-Reading Boot Camp [Re: Maechre]
sinophilia Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 1022
Loc: Italy
Lovely! So many notes at once and you even managed to convey the feeling!
_________________________
Diana & Wally - Yamaha W110BW
Martha Argerich... is an incarnation of the artistic metaphor of the "eternal feminine" that draws us upward. (Sergio Sablich)

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