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#2058342 - 04/02/13 02:42 PM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: MacMacMac]
dmd Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1686
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
dmd: You've missed the point. Someone (the OP) has made the decision to use a piano library. The hassle of connection must have already been considered and accepted.


And to further narrow that target market, they have decided there is no wish to ever have the option to utilize their DP without the accompanying hardware. Seems like an unnecessarily restrictive decision for saving $200 .... but too each his/her own.
_________________________
Don

My current system: Kawai ES7 + Focal CMS40 Powered Monitors, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 audio interface, Mackie ProFX8 Mixer, Ravenscroft275, True Keys American Grand, Ivory II American Concert D, Steinway Basic, Galaxy Vintage D, True Pianos, Pianoteq, Alicia's Keys

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#2058345 - 04/02/13 02:47 PM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: dmd]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: dmd
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
dmd: You've missed the point. Someone (the OP) has made the decision to use a piano library. The hassle of connection must have already been considered and accepted.


And to further narrow that target market, they have decided there is no wish to ever have the option to utilize their DP without the accompanying hardware. Seems like an unnecessarily restrictive decision for saving $200 .... but too each his/her own.



Especially considering that the marginal manufacturing cost to include the sound generator is negligible...

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#2058355 - 04/02/13 03:08 PM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: Vid]
Vid Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 706
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
ES7 - RHII action < VPC1 - RM3 Grand II

I'm not sure about the pedals on the ES7 (is the sustain more than just a on/off switch?) but the other big selling feature of the VPC1 are the "Grand Piano Pedals" where half-pedaling will work.

ES7 - "32 exceptional instrument sounds" - don't want these, I'm only interested in the best available piano sound. As of now the best is only available via piano software.

Touch curves? Well I'm not sure if I will be the kind that will tweak these endlessly. I'm sure the settings that come out of the box will work well. One point I think is that the controller is designed with this in mind. Other digitals output midi velocity levels with lesser range and probably designed specifically for their own sound generator (not 100% sure on that one).
_________________________
Kawai VPC1, Pianoteq, Galaxy Vintage D

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#2058370 - 04/02/13 04:13 PM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: Vid]
dmd Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1686
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: Vid
ES7 - RHII action < VPC1 - RM3 Grand II


Well, I have owned both of them (CA-63 with RM3 Grand and ES7 with RHII) and I prefer the RHII. So, I would not give any particular edge to the RM3 Grand action.

Quote:
I'm not sure about the pedals on the ES7 (is the sustain more than just a on/off switch?) but the other big selling feature of the VPC1 are the "Grand Piano Pedals" where half-pedaling will work.


The ES7 has sustain pedal with "half-damper function". If that means half-pedaling then it has that feature.

Quote:
ES7 - "32 exceptional instrument sounds" - don't want these, I'm only interested in the best available piano sound.


That is my position also. But it can be a nice diversion periodically.


Quote:
As of now the best is only available via piano software.
You may be right. I just have a found it difficult to get that "best" sound out of my computer and into the air.


Quote:
Touch curves? Well I'm not sure if I will be the kind that will tweak these endlessly. I'm sure the settings that come out of the box will work well.


My position on this, as well.


Quote:
One point I think is that the controller is designed with this in mind. Other digitals output midi velocity levels with lesser range and probably designed specifically for their own sound generator (not 100% sure on that one).


I no nothing about this. Doesn't sound like you do either.

So, from my perspective ... I could swap my ES7 for the VPC1 and the only significant difference I would notice in my day is that I would be restricted to my software piano sounds exclusively.

Not necessarily a bad thing. I would get used to it.
I would probably begin the journey of searching for a better hardware system in order to realize the "potential" of the software piano sounds I am using. Maybe would begin purchasing additional software in search of that "best" sound.

Maybe it would turn out to be a good thing. Maybe I would find that nirvana of piano sound ... Maybe ...
_________________________
Don

My current system: Kawai ES7 + Focal CMS40 Powered Monitors, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 audio interface, Mackie ProFX8 Mixer, Ravenscroft275, True Keys American Grand, Ivory II American Concert D, Steinway Basic, Galaxy Vintage D, True Pianos, Pianoteq, Alicia's Keys

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#2058379 - 04/02/13 04:41 PM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: dmd]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU
Originally Posted By: dmd
I would probably begin the journey of searching for a better hardware system in order to realize the "potential" of the software piano sounds I am using. Maybe would begin purchasing additional software in search of that "best" sound.

Maybe it would turn out to be a good thing. Maybe I would find that nirvana of piano sound ... Maybe ...
A lot of us has this jurney behind us, having had a full-fledged DP and ending at not using its internals at all or uttermost at 5% of all the time.

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#2058382 - 04/02/13 04:59 PM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: Vid]
Vid Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 706
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
I wouldn't trade in an ES7 for the VPC1 if I already had one and not my intention to diss it either.

I started my "journey" with hooking up my old Clavinova (CLP130) with Pianoteq and then added the Bluthner add on. I've added Galaxy D to the mix now which is my current favorite.

I also only use headphones because attempts to use computer speakers or routing the sound through the Clavinova speakers had terrible results. Of course there is a myriad of options for outside sound output but I fear that might be a costly rabbit hole.

My priority for now is to replace the Clavinova with something that has a superior action and better sustain pedal (its just a switch on the Clavinova). I feel the VPC1 was made specifically for someone in my situation. I don't seem to be alone in this respect.

Maybe someone can comment on the velocity levels/curves? Am I right to think that a controller like the VPC are designed to take full advantage of the 128 velocity levels available? I know my Clavinova only outputs something like levels 10 to 100. frown
_________________________
Kawai VPC1, Pianoteq, Galaxy Vintage D

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#2058433 - 04/02/13 07:34 PM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: Vid]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8388
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: dmd
...too each his/her own.


Precisely.

You are very happy with your ES7 and therefore do not feel the need to purchase a VPC1.

However, other players may be approaching the VPC1 from a different background and/or with different needs, so for these individuals the VPC1 is a more attractive proposition.

Just because an instrument has black and white keys, it doesn't necessarily mean that everyone who plays the piano is obligated to immediately rush out and buy it.

I, for example, would never consider purchasing a Yamaha 'Tyros'-style board, however I appreciate that there is a market for such an instrument among certain types of players.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2061061 - 04/07/13 11:00 PM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: curt88]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8388
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: curt88
The VPC1 has an Ivory touch preset, but Ivory has a family of pianos (Steinway, Yamaha, Fazzioli, Bosie). I'm curious which of these piano's actions has been captured in the Ivory preset?


Just a quick bump to highlight that this question has been added to the Q&A section of the VPC website:

http://kawaivpc.com/questions

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2061125 - 04/08/13 03:20 AM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: Vid]
eulerdisk Online   content
Junior Member

Registered: 02/01/13
Posts: 7
Loc: Italy

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#2061292 - 04/08/13 02:00 PM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: Vid]
Allan W. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/03/12
Posts: 369
Loc: Michigan
I have an MP-10 which seems to be the same keys as the VPC1. I also exclusively use Ivory II American Concert D. Is there a way to get these touch curves for my use? Are they a lot better than a flat curve?
_________________________
Recent adult re-starter... http://www.youtube.com/user/allanw
Kawai MP-10 + Ivory II (pic), Young Chang Y175, 2012 (renting) (pic)

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#2061385 - 04/08/13 05:09 PM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: Allan W.]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8388
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: Allan W.
I have an MP-10 which seems to be the same keys as the VPC1. I also exclusively use Ivory II American Concert D. Is there a way to get these touch curves for my use? Are they a lot better than a flat curve?


The MP10 and VPC1 keyboard actions are very similar, however the VPC1's 'RM3 Grand II' action features 3-sensor key detection. This can affect the touch characteristics.

Regardless, however, I'm afraid it is not possible to obtain, nor load the VPC1's 'approved touch curves' onto the MP10.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2061398 - 04/08/13 05:26 PM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: Allan W.]
eulerdisk Online   content
Junior Member

Registered: 02/01/13
Posts: 7
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: Allan W.
I have an MP-10 which seems to be the same keys as the VPC1. I also exclusively use Ivory II American Concert D. Is there a way to get these touch curves for my use? Are they a lot better than a flat curve?


Maybe having the velocity curve sketch (a screenshot for example) is possible to (*manually*) extrapolate the data and than (manually) copy that into the velocity editor of another software.

* for manually I mean writing a simple script (in python) that take the curve image and write out the midi-in/out mapping in a text file for example.
It's not difficult at all but it'a extremely boring...

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#2061590 - 04/08/13 11:28 PM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: Vid]
Allan W. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/03/12
Posts: 369
Loc: Michigan
Yes, I can try to reconstruct it from a picture of the curve. Would anyone have a copy?

Also, what kind of difference does it make versus the default neutral setting?
_________________________
Recent adult re-starter... http://www.youtube.com/user/allanw
Kawai MP-10 + Ivory II (pic), Young Chang Y175, 2012 (renting) (pic)

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#2061598 - 04/08/13 11:47 PM Re: Speaking of the VPC1 [Re: Vid]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8388
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Allan W.,

If you have a Windows PC, you can download and run the VPC Editor (albeit in demo mode) and find the exact values.

However, once again, the 'approved touch curves' are prepared for the 'RM3 Grand II' action, not the 'RM3 Grand'.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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