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Topic Options
#2055814 - 03/28/13 06:18 PM Re: New Kawai CA65 - full keyboard replacement - pls advise [Re: pschmatz]
MACKEL Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/23/13
Posts: 2
Loc: Paris, France
Thanks for replies Kawai James & Mabraman - waiting to hear back from the dealer. Never heard of a problem with Kawai in France - seemed a little skeptical and afraid my appraisal of problem might be just visual- which it is not - felt key problem in 15/20 min playing confirmed by visual of rough unfinished black C# .
I've tried to find the follow up to pschmatz's original post re Kawai problem. Oddly after all that discussion, I can find nothing. I was interested in knowing how it turned out.....

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#2057119 - 03/30/13 10:20 PM Re: New Kawai CA65 - full keyboard replacement - pls advise [Re: pschmatz]
pschmatz Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 7
Update: The keyboard has been replaced with a new one, however some other keys then where not quite aligned as well (not spongy feeling though and not as bad as the original one). A new problem though was that a fair number of keys now had a mechanical "pop" (hard to describe, just a bit louder than others). The repair technician noticed that, but wanted to call back with Kawai before doing anything else. At that time to leave (for work), and we just left it.

Now, a week later, I decided to go the DIY route (since I watched how to take out the keys and hammers). Approx 3h later, I now got all keys level (yeah). There are brown and white paper washers (different thickness) under the keys, about 5 keys were too high, and about 4 too low. The "pop" seem to be caused by too much clearance between the wooden part of the key, and the plastic hammer (w/metal pin). The pin can be adjusted (I think I adjusted ~20 keys total) - there is a tool for it, which I don't have so I had to remove the hammers and put them back in. There is also silicon grease on the stop of the plastic hammer (which I didn't have to apply)

I know, that I probably would have been able to get the technician back, however I simply was not able to take another 1/2 day off. Plus, I was able to get it exactly right.

Overall, the problem is probably with transporting these units. The new keyboard had clearly been adjusted at the factory (you can tell by the different amount of washers, and how the pins have different clearance, but the bumps along the was the problem

Mackel: Start with the dealer, and Kawai service to look at the keyboard. Sounds like your problem is not due to settling, or transport of the keyboard.

Cheers

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#2057162 - 03/31/13 01:11 AM Re: New Kawai CA65 - full keyboard replacement - pls advise [Re: pschmatz]
xorbe Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/12
Posts: 568
Loc: Mt View, CA
Originally Posted By: pschmatz
Plus, I was able to get it exactly right.

Virtual high-five for a successful DIY adjustment!

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#2057185 - 03/31/13 03:58 AM Re: New Kawai CA65 - full keyboard replacement - pls advise [Re: pschmatz]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: pschmatz
Update: The keyboard has been replaced with a new one, however some other keys then where not quite aligned as well (not spongy feeling though and not as bad as the original one). A new problem though was that a fair number of keys now had a mechanical "pop" (hard to describe, just a bit louder than others). The repair technician noticed that, but wanted to call back with Kawai before doing anything else. At that time to leave (for work), and we just left it.

Now, a week later, I decided to go the DIY route (since I watched how to take out the keys and hammers). Approx 3h later, I now got all keys level (yeah). There are brown and white paper washers (different thickness) under the keys, about 5 keys were too high, and about 4 too low. The "pop" seem to be caused by too much clearance between the wooden part of the key, and the plastic hammer (w/metal pin). The pin can be adjusted (I think I adjusted ~20 keys total) - there is a tool for it, which I don't have so I had to remove the hammers and put them back in. There is also silicon grease on the stop of the plastic hammer (which I didn't have to apply)

I know, that I probably would have been able to get the technician back, however I simply was not able to take another 1/2 day off. Plus, I was able to get it exactly right.

Overall, the problem is probably with transporting these units. The new keyboard had clearly been adjusted at the factory (you can tell by the different amount of washers, and how the pins have different clearance, but the bumps along the was the problem

Mackel: Start with the dealer, and Kawai service to look at the keyboard. Sounds like your problem is not due to settling, or transport of the keyboard.

Cheers


Wow!

Some keyboards require more and different skills than others!

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#2057231 - 03/31/13 07:18 AM Re: New Kawai CA65 - full keyboard replacement - pls advise [Re: pschmatz]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU

I like Your contribution: this is like an old fashioned wooden instrument keybed: sometimes requiring regulation - but allowing it as well!

I just can't wait for the Musikmesse (decided to pull the trigger after then).

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#2057293 - 03/31/13 10:02 AM Re: New Kawai CA65 - full keyboard replacement - pls advise [Re: pschmatz]
Clayman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 300
Loc: Prague, Czech Rep.
Originally Posted By: pschmatz
Update: The keyboard has been replaced with a new one, however some other keys then where not quite aligned as well (not spongy feeling though and not as bad as the original one). A new problem though was that a fair number of keys now had a mechanical "pop" (hard to describe, just a bit louder than others). The repair technician noticed that, but wanted to call back with Kawai before doing anything else. At that time to leave (for work), and we just left it.

Now, a week later, I decided to go the DIY route (since I watched how to take out the keys and hammers). Approx 3h later, I now got all keys level (yeah). There are brown and white paper washers (different thickness) under the keys, about 5 keys were too high, and about 4 too low. The "pop" seem to be caused by too much clearance between the wooden part of the key, and the plastic hammer (w/metal pin). The pin can be adjusted (I think I adjusted ~20 keys total) - there is a tool for it, which I don't have so I had to remove the hammers and put them back in. There is also silicon grease on the stop of the plastic hammer (which I didn't have to apply)

I know, that I probably would have been able to get the technician back, however I simply was not able to take another 1/2 day off. Plus, I was able to get it exactly right.

Overall, the problem is probably with transporting these units. The new keyboard had clearly been adjusted at the factory (you can tell by the different amount of washers, and how the pins have different clearance, but the bumps along the was the problem

Mackel: Start with the dealer, and Kawai service to look at the keyboard. Sounds like your problem is not due to settling, or transport of the keyboard.

Cheers


It's good to see things worked out all right for you but it still makes me wish pianos had a way to lock the keys in place for transport or something.

It's also worth mentioning that there's not nearly as many reports of similar problems from Yamaha users. Could it be that the way the GF action is built allows these problems to happen more frequently?
_________________________
-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown

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#2057300 - 03/31/13 10:18 AM Re: New Kawai CA65 - full keyboard replacement - pls advise [Re: Clayman]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU
Originally Posted By: Clayman
It's also worth mentioning that there's not nearly as many reports of similar problems from Yamaha users. Could it be that the way the GF action is built allows these problems to happen more frequently?
Yamahas actions seem to be manufactured using probably to a higher degree automated production lines. (Even wooden Yamaha actions have in reality plastic keys with wooden side sticker, on the white keys only), so they can probably be not that prone to regulation issues. Talking of "normal" DPs, from the much more expensive AG serie I think a higher level QC is also to be expected to eliminate such issues.)

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#2058187 - 04/02/13 08:14 AM Re: New Kawai CA65 - full keyboard replacement - pls advise [Re: pschmatz]
R_B Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/03/09
Posts: 495
From my work experience in other fields I find it quite disturbing that these instruments are so sensitive to transport "damage" or "changes".
There does not appear to be a sufficient resolve to design, build and package them for the hazards of international (or even "local") shipping.

Without getting to the specifics, is it practical to use some sort of a restraining "bar" to hold all keys in place ?
I can't design it here & now, but I am thinking a simple padded bar that holds all keys down and is secured with some simple clamping mechanism or strap would do it.
Elegant in its simplicity - and CHEAP enough to discard, or re-use for gigs or home relocation.

{Gee, even clothes washers and dryers have this sort of thing at a MUCH lower price point (-:}

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#2058326 - 04/02/13 01:55 PM Re: New Kawai CA65 - full keyboard replacement - pls advise [Re: pschmatz]
pschmatz Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 7
R B: From what I've seen from the Kawai keyboard is that even a super thin paper washer can visibly affect the height of the key (due to the location of the pivot). Just small bounce during transportation can move them out of alignment. Then, on the other end of the key, there is a small rubber pad (between the wood and the metal pin of the hammer): This pad will compress over time by usage, adding more clearance and giving the key a different mechanical sound.

Transportation restraint: This would certainly be a good idea. However it would have to be inside, and hold down the keys and hammers. Probably would prevent it from being able to allow "customer assembly".

Cheers

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#2058344 - 04/02/13 02:43 PM Re: New Kawai CA65 - full keyboard replacement - pls advise [Re: pschmatz]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: pschmatz
R B: From what I've seen from the Kawai keyboard is that even a super thin paper washer can visibly affect the height of the key (due to the location of the pivot). Just small bounce during transportation can move them out of alignment. Then, on the other end of the key, there is a small rubber pad (between the wood and the metal pin of the hammer): This pad will compress over time by usage, adding more clearance and giving the key a different mechanical sound.

Transportation restraint: This would certainly be a good idea. However it would have to be inside, and hold down the keys and hammers. Probably would prevent it from being able to allow "customer assembly".

Cheers


This confirms my earlier impressions and raises serious questions about how long these "arts & crafts projects with wood & washers in what could have been a reliable, precision consumer electronics device" can be used until they must be repaired or regulated...or replaced -- especially if they are used intensively and/or moved frequently.

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#2058367 - 04/02/13 04:04 PM Re: New Kawai CA65 - full keyboard replacement - pls advise [Re: pschmatz]
R_B Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/03/09
Posts: 495
Wood and paper washer construction MAY have been part of a design goal to....
I don't know what, include an organic feel reminiscent of APs from bygone days ?
Something like that.
It may be totally valid, I really don't know.

What I think is INvalid is the apparent lack of attention to the shipping environment, they appear to have just not DESIGNED (and/or manufactured) it to be "shipping tolerant" for want of a better term.

This is OLD technology and BTW Kawai isn't exactly new to the challenges of preparing APs for international shipping (-:

========================================================================

So, how would this work if I wanted a CA65 at the sort of price Musician's Friend offers ?
Would I get a factory tech to come out and fix defects like this for "free" ?
Are these alignments and "corrections" only available through local stores ?
I can understand that this may be what the retail premium is largely for.


Edited by R_B (04/02/13 04:06 PM)

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#2058401 - 04/02/13 05:50 PM Re: New Kawai CA65 - full keyboard replacement - pls advise [Re: theJourney]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU
Originally Posted By: pschmatz
Then, on the other end of the key, there is a small rubber pad (between the wood and the metal pin of the hammer): This pad will compress over time by usage, adding more clearance and giving the key a different mechanical sound.

I used my Kawai CA51 for some 5+ Years very intensively, and didn't noticed anything like that. I think there is not much changes in the hammer attachment compartment of the actions since then (AWA Grand Pro II -> RM3 = RM3-II -> GF), isn't it?

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#2058498 - 04/03/13 12:54 AM Re: New Kawai CA65 - full keyboard replacement - pls advise [Re: pschmatz]
Clayman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 300
Loc: Prague, Czech Rep.
To be absolutely, entirely honest, things like that give me second thoughts about my decision to go for the CA-95. As much as I love the sound of the instrument (don't know about the touch, I have never sat at one yet), I will probably have to call a technician the next day after delivery to sort out the misaligned keys. And depending on where I choose to buy it from, the technician might have to travel hundreds of kilometers.
_________________________
-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown

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#2058499 - 04/03/13 12:57 AM Re: New Kawai CA65 - full keyboard replacement - pls advise [Re: Clayman]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Clayman
To be absolutely, entirely honest, things like that give me second thoughts about my decision to go for the CA-95. As much as I love the sound of the instrument (don't know about the touch, I have never sat at one yet), I will probably have to call a technician the next day after delivery to sort out the misaligned keys. And depending on where I choose to buy it from, the technician might have to travel hundreds of kilometers.


I would never spend serious money on a a serious DP without first having auditioned one multiple times in direct comparison to the alternatives...it doesn't matter how reliable a given manufacurer's product is it you don't like playing on it.

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#2058506 - 04/03/13 01:12 AM Re: New Kawai CA65 - full keyboard replacement - pls advise [Re: pschmatz]
Clayman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 300
Loc: Prague, Czech Rep.
Yes, that's the plan. I'm not going to buy one unless I hear it and touch it in person, preferably standing right next to the other contender(s).
_________________________
-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown

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#2058511 - 04/03/13 01:24 AM Re: New Kawai CA65 - full keyboard replacement - pls advise [Re: Clayman]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8822
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Clayman, I am inclined to agree with theJourney and recommend that you play-test the CA95 prior to making a purchasing decision.

If the dealer does not have this model in stock, the CA65 will offer a comparable playing experience in terms of touch, although the sound will obviously lack the additional presence of the CA95's soundboard speaker.

If you have not done so already, may I recommend contacting Kawai's distributor in the Czech Republic, 'Praha Music Centre' to enquire into the availability of this CA95.

http://www.pmc.cz/znacky.asp?ID=45

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2058521 - 04/03/13 02:18 AM Re: New Kawai CA65 - full keyboard replacement - pls advise [Re: pschmatz]
Clayman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 300
Loc: Prague, Czech Rep.
Thanks a lot for the link, KJ, I did check them out. They are indeed an authorized Kawai reseller for the Czech Republic but they don't handle retail sales anymore. Their website lists a number of retailers who should offer Kawai products (not all of them actually do, however) and I have already checked some of them out.

As I'm located in Prague, I focused on local retailers but those who actually list the current CA models will only make them available upon request/order. At the moment, I'm not sure if that order has to be a firm order that cannot be cancelled if for whatever reason I choose a different piano.

I'm actually almost firmly decided to pay thomann.de a visit and see for myself there. It seems they are the only safe bet in terms of immediate availability of any current CA model even though to get there means a ~350km ride. Not too bad as far as I'm concerned, the value of the investment still far outweighs the expenses.

At any rate, it's not the play-test I worry about. I have never played a piano before so I can get used to pretty much anything. It's the transportation to my place that gives me a mild headache. From what I have learned so far, it may turn out to be "problematic" with regard to the piano's keyboard.
_________________________
-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown

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#2058537 - 04/03/13 03:51 AM Re: New Kawai CA65 - full keyboard replacement - pls advise [Re: Clayman]
Hookxs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 247
Loc: Czech Republic
Clayman, I bought my CA95 from Music City (Vysocany) and I am currently in the unfortunate process of warranty repair/exchange negotiation. The size and weight of the piano really complicates these matters. If you buy from Thomann (which was my original intention), such warranty repairs (if any) will be even more inconvenient.

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#2058543 - 04/03/13 04:07 AM Re: New Kawai CA65 - full keyboard replacement - pls advise [Re: Clayman]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Clayman
Thanks a lot for the link, KJ, I did check them out. They are indeed an authorized Kawai reseller for the Czech Republic but they don't handle retail sales anymore. Their website lists a number of retailers who should offer Kawai products (not all of them actually do, however) and I have already checked some of them out.

As I'm located in Prague, I focused on local retailers but those who actually list the current CA models will only make them available upon request/order. At the moment, I'm not sure if that order has to be a firm order that cannot be cancelled if for whatever reason I choose a different piano.

I'm actually almost firmly decided to pay thomann.de a visit and see for myself there. It seems they are the only safe bet in terms of immediate availability of any current CA model even though to get there means a ~350km ride. Not too bad as far as I'm concerned, the value of the investment still far outweighs the expenses.

At any rate, it's not the play-test I worry about. I have never played a piano before so I can get used to pretty much anything. It's the transportation to my place that gives me a mild headache. From what I have learned so far, it may turn out to be "problematic" with regard to the piano's keyboard.


I think I might start out on something that is less expensive, more resilient and easier/safer to transport than an instrument that is as unwieldly to move as an upright acoustic piano.

What does your teacher recommend?

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#2058545 - 04/03/13 04:13 AM Re: New Kawai CA65 - full keyboard replacement - pls advise [Re: pschmatz]
Clayman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 300
Loc: Prague, Czech Rep.
Originally Posted By: Hookxs
Clayman, I bought my CA95 from Music City (Vysocany) and I am currently in the unfortunate process of warranty repair/exchange negotiation. The size and weight of the piano really complicates these matters. If you buy from Thomann (which was my original intention), such warranty repairs (if any) will be even more inconvenient.


I see. I am hoping that I won't have many issues with my piano but we all know that Murphy's laws are merciless and if something can break, it most likely will. In that aspect, having a local distributor resolve the issue would be preferable to having to ship the piano abroad. (On that note, I will also have to check out thomann's return policy on who's responsible for shipping fees in case of warranty repair/replacement.)

Now, without the intention of hijacking this thread, could you tell me, Hookxs, what your issue was with the piano and if Music-City are giving you any trouble with the return/replacement? I could use that information when deciding on where to buy the piano from. Thanks. smile

EDIT:

Originally Posted By: theJourney

I think I might start out on something that is less expensive, more resilient and easier/safer to transport than an instrument that is as unwieldly to move as an upright acoustic piano.

What does your teacher recommend?


I don't have a teacher (yet). This crazy plan is entirely a work of my own. smile For me, this purchase is a longer-term investment and in such cases I prefer to buy higher-end products. I would agree that the size of the box in which the CA-95 is shipped is pretty large but not nearly as heavy as an acoustic upright imho.


Edited by Clayman (04/03/13 06:28 AM)
_________________________
-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown

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#2058653 - 04/03/13 11:02 AM Re: New Kawai CA65 - full keyboard replacement - pls advise [Re: Clayman]
Hookxs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 247
Loc: Czech Republic
Originally Posted By: Clayman

I see. I am hoping that I won't have many issues with my piano but we all know that Murphy's laws are merciless and if something can break, it most likely will. In that aspect, having a local distributor resolve the issue would be preferable to having to ship the piano abroad. (On that note, I will also have to check out thomann's return policy on who's responsible for shipping fees in case of warranty repair/replacement.)

Now, without the intention of hijacking this thread, could you tell me, Hookxs, what your issue was with the piano and if Music-City are giving you any trouble with the return/replacement? I could use that information when deciding on where to buy the piano from. Thanks. smile


Chances are you'll be lucky and won't need any service, but there has been several posts recently about replacements or repairs of new Kawai keyboards so be prepared for such possibility.

My issues in short: several keys make clicky noise (mechanical), resonance issues for some keys (mechanical), damper resonance simulation has weird and faulty behavior.

Regarding Music-City: let me tell you in a few days, things started rather slowly and are only now getting into motion.

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#2060223 - 04/06/13 07:22 AM Re: New Kawai CA65 - full keyboard replacement - pls advise [Re: pschmatz]
R_B Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/03/09
Posts: 495
Originally Posted By: pschmatz
R B: From what I've seen from the Kawai keyboard is that even a super thin paper washer can visibly affect the height of the key (due to the location of the pivot). Just small bounce during transportation can move them out of alignment. Then, on the other end of the key, there is a small rubber pad (between the wood and the metal pin of the hammer): This pad will compress over time by usage, adding more clearance and giving the key a different mechanical sound.

Transportation restraint: This would certainly be a good idea. However it would have to be inside, and hold down the keys and hammers. Probably would prevent it from being able to allow "customer assembly".

Cheers


Between 4 and 5 minutes in this video;
http://vimeo.com/28802239
is what Wayne Stuart calls the "no go bar"

OK, so Grands aren't uprights aren't DPs, point is actions can be restrained during transport and it can be done fairly inexpensively.
Cable ties are single use, but available just about everywhere these days, so subsequent moves should be no problem.

BTW, this was from casual browsing - I am NOT seriously considering a Stuart piano (unless my fortunes change radically).

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#2060342 - 04/06/13 12:20 PM Re: New Kawai CA65 - full keyboard replacement - pls advise [Re: pschmatz]
Clayman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 300
Loc: Prague, Czech Rep.
That's an interesting way to solve this issue but I wonder how hard it would be to implement such a feature into a DP's keyboard. I suppose sliding out the keybed might not be that hard to do but the wiring inside the cabinet would have to be a little more on the flexible side.
_________________________
-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown

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#2060377 - 04/06/13 01:24 PM Re: New Kawai CA65 - full keyboard replacement - pls advise [Re: pschmatz]
R_B Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/03/09
Posts: 495
Retroactively ? It MIGHT be "possible".
As a design goal from "day one" ? probably trivial.

Deciding to do (something like) it is probably the HARD part.
(Corporate inertia ?)


Edited by R_B (04/06/13 01:26 PM)

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#2060417 - 04/06/13 03:15 PM Re: New Kawai CA65 - full keyboard replacement - pls advise [Re: pschmatz]
Clayman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 300
Loc: Prague, Czech Rep.
If it can be done easily, then it probably should not increase the production costs significantly, I suppose... Of course, the customer would be required to remove the bar themselves -- that would probably be the trickiest part depending on customer's aptitude (and how smartly that feature would be implemented) but the dealer could also remove the bar themselves as a part of an on-site setup.

Whether or not the manufacturers decide to use this feature is another question altogether but it should be in their best interest to secure their products for safe (and possibly long-distance) shipping and the lives of many customers would get a little easier.


Edited by Clayman (04/06/13 03:16 PM)
_________________________
-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown

Top
#2060480 - 04/06/13 06:28 PM Re: New Kawai CA65 - full keyboard replacement - pls advise [Re: Kawai James]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
If you have not done so already, may I recommend contacting Kawai's distributor in the Czech Republic, 'Praha Music Centre' to enquire into the availability of this CA95.
http://www.pmc.cz/znacky.asp?ID=45
Hi, James, would You be kind to give the Kawai distributor in Hungary ?
I would like to buy from (one of) them - there are some smaller dealer listing the CAs, but important to know who is the official Kawai contract.)
Thx.

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#2060503 - 04/06/13 07:41 PM Re: New Kawai CA65 - full keyboard replacement - pls advise [Re: pschmatz]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8822
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Hello Temperament,

The most up-to-date worldwide distributor information is available from the following URL:

http://www.kawai.co.jp/worldwide/

Clicking the link for Hungary shows the following information:

TUTTO HANGSZER KFT
H-8300 Tapolca, Dobó tér 1., Hungary
Tel. : +36 87/510-566
Url. : http://www.tuttohangszer.hu

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2060574 - 04/06/13 11:40 PM Re: New Kawai CA65 - full keyboard replacement - pls advise [Re: pschmatz]
Dave B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 1864
Loc: Philadelphia area
I'm wondering why a retailer would deliver a piano with an obvious default?

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#2060628 - 04/07/13 04:16 AM Re: New Kawai CA65 - full keyboard replacement - pls advise [Re: Dave B]
pianoworldanon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/03/13
Posts: 62
Originally Posted By: Dave B
I'm wondering why a retailer would deliver a piano with an obvious default?


It's all about money, money, and more money! It's about being Stingy.

I am in total agreement with you David. Kawai should have took the piano back after having such a serious defect in particular when the 3rd tech couldn't properly do the job right. I don't think it's that expensive for Kawai to be in contract to have the piano shipped via special carriers in California. I don't remember but when I buy stuff from Amazon, there were times that Amazon did not use UPS / FED ex, but instead, they use some sort of 3rd party van services. It's part of offering customers a high quality product and high quality service. Right now, I'm in the middle of a headache with another vendor where I have to drive two round trips to an authorized dealer to have a board replaced that's in warranty and isn't my fault. Honestly, I don't know how the OP feels.. does he / she feel any bit of uneasiness in regards to not having a perfect piano? That would just eat me inside out!

What I'm curious is, could he have demanded a full refund and then buy another one? that's what i would do with American Express card if the repair was not completely satisfactory. Then does this mean that if such issue were to happen, the customer should insist on a refund instead of having it repaired? I would think so. Let that piano be repaired by Kawai and sell it as "refurbished" item, as it should have been, because that's exactly what the OP received. The OP clearly did not get an equal quality item in addition to his added frustration and lost time spent on fixing it himself. Kawai should have foreseen the issues and provided a complete white glove solution to issues that are not easily fixable. A tech can be sent out to replace boards, but fine adjustments, forget it.

This is an excellent video of what Piano Companies should provide for customer's to take part in fixing DP pianos if there's a need instead of having the customer to drive multiple 2 hour round trips to get something repaired, in my case.

http://vimeo.com/28802239

I'm already in love with this company due to the clarity of the video!



Edited by pianoworldanon (04/07/13 04:34 AM)

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#2060633 - 04/07/13 04:51 AM Re: New Kawai CA65 - full keyboard replacement - pls advise [Re: Kawai James]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU
Originally Posted By: James
Hello Temperament,

The most up-to-date worldwide distributor information is available from the following URL:

http://www.kawai.co.jp/worldwide/
Thx.

This is what Google displays first within Hungary also as a retailer. (But their internet site was not that great, why I felt motivated to ask You.)

Although it is not that clear, what differences this exactly means, but by having a deal with official distributor directly I would assume a sufficiently solid background proven by manufacturer and warranty seems the most secured.

Could You ever suggest to buy from another one? I could conceive one very big local dealer which "never" will go bankrupt, but have no direct contract with Kawai only with some local retailer. Is their warranty anyhow dependent on their original distributor?
What is if latter doesn't exist anymore in some future?

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