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#2081882 - 05/13/13 12:24 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: toddy]
Marko in Boston Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 926
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: toddy
Well then, I can't quite see the point of hooking that up to a keyboard. Why not just do the pitch & speed change inside the phone and plug it into computer monitor speakers?

...which is to ask: What does this do that you can't already do in any computer with a free version of Audacity in it?


A wise man once said "Wouldn't you rather have Roland put time effort and money in an enhanced SN engine with 256 polyphony , instead of gimmicks like this ? " -JFP
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2081896 - 05/13/13 12:54 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
toddy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1867
Loc: Portugal
You are so right!
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#2082149 - 05/13/13 10:25 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: toddy]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3453
Originally Posted By: toddy
What does this do that you can't already do in any computer with a free version of Audacity in it?

Run on an iphone/iPad. Record wirelessly from your keyboard. Playback wirelessly into your keyboard (if your keyboard has internal speakers).

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#2082158 - 05/13/13 10:36 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3453
Originally Posted By: JFP
Wouldn't you rather have Roland put time effort and money in an enhanced SN engine with 256 polyphony , instead of gimmicks like this ?

I don't know how many people will find this "gimmick" useful or not.

But the manufacturing cost of the app is zero, which is probably not true of whatever would have to be done to increase to 256 polyphony (i.e. you're comparing a free add-on to something that would raise the price of the piano). And honestly, I don't know how many people would really find 256-note polyphony useful enough to pay more for it, all else being equal.

I think Roland is just looking for some "gee whiz" stuff that salespeople can use on the showroom floor. Used effectively, an app like this might sell more DPs (possibly more than more polyphony would). I think that's really the point of the app, to help sell more units, which is, after all, their goal. It might work.

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#2082265 - 05/14/13 04:10 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: anotherscott]
Cmin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Yeah... and they should make a deal with Apple. Buy one FP-80, get one iPhone for free.

I'm not going to buy a iOS gadget just to get a 'digital' connection to my DAW. They should at least offer this gimmick for Android as well.
_________________________
Cheers,
Lenny

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FP-80, HP 3000s, synths, guitars, mics, MBP, interfaces, Voicelive 2, ableton, Pianoteq, nubert A-200 active monitors

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#2082275 - 05/14/13 05:22 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: anotherscott]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1337
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
......
I think Roland is just looking for some "gee whiz" stuff that salespeople can use on the showroom floor. Used effectively, an app like this might sell more DPs (possibly more than more polyphony would). I think that's really the point of the app, to help sell more units, which is, after all, their goal. It might work.


So, it's a gimmick - to lure people into buying. Like having your car talk to you and do weather forecasts in 3D , but provide it with a crappy old engine.

By the way - I don't think developing iApps is cheap by default. There are several divisions involved at a company the size of Roland and programmers are well-payed people , probably making a lot of hours getting bug-free , working iApps out. So they could have spend that money on re-engineering the SN engine. Doesn't have to be revolutionary ; just add some more processing power and a few tweaks here and there. AND include the Studio Grand on the DP series - they have it in stock anyway + R&D costs on that sample set have for long been earned back. No reason, other than guys-in-suits who don't play reasoning , to leave that out.

Also - no Lesley on/off on foot pedal : why - is that really too much to ask ? Question of really thinking things through just a bit more. And this strange routing of effects, as I understood, where effects apply to both mic input AND the sounds you're playing and settings/routing can't be separated. Talking about settings; the rudimentary way changes are stored (see comments in this thread). And the list goes on.

The FP-80 is good because it has a good keybed, is well build and has good basic SN sounds. In programming, routing and additional gimmicking that could have been more wisely spend, the FP is ...well not as good as it could be , to put it nicely (ahum). And that is regrettable.

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#2082281 - 05/14/13 06:02 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Marko in Boston]
Marko in Boston Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 926
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston


Same dude now with FP-50 demo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYpuG0OXTX8
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2082292 - 05/14/13 07:01 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
Marco M Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/12
Posts: 453
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: JFP

The FP-80 is good because it has a good keybed, is well build and has good basic SN sounds. In programming, routing and additional gimmicking that could have been more wisely spend, the FP is ...well not as good as it could be , to put it nicely (ahum). And that is regrettable.


That´s pretty much exactly the same as what I am used to say about my Roland console piano HP-505. The keybed, SN sound and speaker system together really make an amazing instrument! But don´t expect much more.

Not even the metronome is pragmatic to use when switching between normal piano playing and recording modes or staying in recording mode without saving each take.
Or to give a different bad example: for sure it´s nice to play a cathedral organ sound with much reverb and flat EQ and keybed dynamis switched off, while the SN piano sound lives best from subtle reverb and with headphones from flat EQ but with the speaker system from more reverb and EQed to the maximum rised high frequency (max "ambience" value) for circumventing the otherwise present muffled sound of the HPs, and of course the keybed dynamics on (i.e. on level "H1"). Everything set up correctly for the different situations, the HP does not have any muffled sound but sounds magnificent!
Can anybody give me a good reason why on the console style HP it is not possible to save a variation of these settings for having them easily on hand when switching a sound? Changing from piano to organ sound is just not possible without stopping your living room concert for a parameter reprogramming break! How much would it cost to provide me 6 programable memory presets for this, 3x for headphone settings and 3x for speaker system settings? The portable and stagepiano FPs 50 / 80 or the RDs 300 / 700 NX have such preset options, as I understand you. How is it possible that somebody decides that a console HP musician would have no need for this??? I guess it even cost(!) them effort to take this functionionality out of the HP, like it will cost them effort to deactivate certain functionality in the smaller HD models in comparison to the bigger HP models, but the marketing department seems to still see an advantage in such musician un-friendly moves. frown
_________________________
learning Piano on my Roland HP-505
before playing Drums in adults bluesband on handpicked set; before crashing E-Guitar in kids garage band; raised on home entertainment Organ and Keyboard models Eminent Solina P240, Farfisa Maharani 259R, Technics KN800, and on Mouth Organ, Recorder and Accordion

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#2082347 - 05/14/13 09:35 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Marco M]
Hookxs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 251
Loc: Czech Republic
Originally Posted By: Marco M
The portable and stagepiano FPs 50 / 80 or the RDs 300 / 700 NX have such preset options, as I understand you.


In fact, some settings are "global" and for some reason (like unfortunate result of a coin flip) cannot be saved to registrations (=presets). This includes (but is not limiterd to) EQ or all Piano Designer settings.

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#2082398 - 05/14/13 11:25 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3453
Originally Posted By: Cmin
They should at least offer this gimmick for Android as well.

They might. If they were going to do one first and see how it goes, iOS probably makes more sense. Also, iOS is inherently able to do some music related things that Android does not (whether at all, or as easily, or universally) because Apple includes the low level infrastructure for it as part of the OS. Though whether this Roland app falls into this category, I don't know.

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#2082400 - 05/14/13 11:29 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3453
Originally Posted By: JFP
By the way - I don't think developing iApps is cheap by default.
...
So they could have spend that money on re-engineering the SN engine.

I didn't say that developing apps is cheap. But once developed, the incremental manufacturing cost of supplying them is zero. It also costs money to develop better modeling algorithms and whatever else you may include in "re-engineering the SN engine" but unlike an app, there is more likely also an addition to the manufacturing cost for more processing power or whatever.

At any rate, the fact that they are paying programmers to develop iOS apps does not mean that they are not also paying programmers to continue to work on their other technologies, SuperNatural, etc. And odds are they are not the same programmers.

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#2082424 - 05/14/13 12:10 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Hookxs]
xorbe Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/12
Posts: 573
Loc: Mt View, CA
Originally Posted By: Hookxs
In fact, some settings are "global" and for some reason (like unfortunate result of a coin flip) cannot be saved to registrations (=presets). This includes (but is not limiterd to) EQ or all Piano Designer settings.

This even afflicts the flagship 700NX wrt compressor and sound focus, iirc.

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#2082797 - 05/14/13 11:22 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: xorbe]
free thinker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 31
Just wondering if anybody with fp-80 had any luck playing mp3's on usb stick through their piano speakers? I followed manual instructions and can get as far as seeing the various folders displayed but cannot see individual songs. Notified Roland but no response for 3 days.

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#2082815 - 05/14/13 11:46 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9706
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
I expect you will need to convert the audio file to WAV format, as I don't believe the FP models can playback/record MP3.

You may be able to get away with simply changing the extension of the file from .mp3 to .wav, however make sure you turn the volume down, just in case the instrument attempts to playback the data as uncompressed audio.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2082887 - 05/15/13 03:04 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
MagicK Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/20/12
Posts: 70
Loc: Germany
According to the manual that's true. Only midi and wav. But hey, why should someone support such an uncommon format. Kawai should better develop ios apps than integrating such useless features ;-)

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#2082888 - 05/15/13 03:04 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: free thinker]
Cmin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Originally Posted By: free thinker
Just wondering if anybody with fp-80 had any luck playing mp3's on usb stick through their piano speakers? I followed manual instructions and can get as far as seeing the various folders displayed but cannot see individual songs. Notified Roland but no response for 3 days.

Free Thinker: It is not possible to playback MP3s through the USB to the FP-80.
According to the manual only these formats can be played back:
Standard MIDI Files (Format 0, 1) -SMF
Roland original format (i-Format)
Audio Files (WAV format, 44.1 kHz, 16-bit linear)

Do not change .wav to .mp3 as James stated (sorry James). That will not work what so ever. Those are two completely different formats and changing the endings will just mess up those files and they will not work at all.

It is though, I believe, possible to play MP3s when hooked up wirelessly with an iPhone or iPad.


Edited by Cmin (05/15/13 03:08 AM)
_________________________
Cheers,
Lenny

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FP-80, HP 3000s, synths, guitars, mics, MBP, interfaces, Voicelive 2, ableton, Pianoteq, nubert A-200 active monitors

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#2082897 - 05/15/13 03:57 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9706
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: Cmin
Do not change .wav to .mp3 as James stated (sorry James). That will not work what so ever. Those are two completely different formats and changing the endings will just mess up those files and they will not work at all.


I agree, it's unlikely to work, but is surely worth a try.

The RD-700NX supports MP3 playback (I believe it's currently the only Roland instrument that does), so it's possible the that functionality also exists in the FP models, but that the file browser is just hiding the .mp3 extesion.

As I say, it's unlikely, but renaming file extensions is rather more straightforward than converting a load of MP3s to WAV, so again, it's worth a try. wink

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2082901 - 05/15/13 04:24 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1337
Loc: The Netherlands
Seemed the RD700NX had/had problems simultaneously playing back MP3 files and the performer playing the SN sounds. Could lead to cut off notes. Perhaps that's why they only support WAV for now, since it doesn't need decompression (using the CPU). It does lead to a higher data-stream however; obviously that's not a problem.

Quote MagicK: "Kawai should better develop ios apps than integrating such useless features ;-)"

Yeh ... and add a mic input with harmonizer crippled by half-baked effect routing...

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#2083064 - 05/15/13 12:06 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
free thinker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 31
Just tried changing .mp3 to .wav on fp-80. The song comes up on the screen and looks like it's playing but no audio. After stopping, error #18 comes up. format un-supported. It was worth a try though.


Edited by free thinker (05/15/13 12:07 PM)

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#2083123 - 05/15/13 02:14 PM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
xorbe Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/12
Posts: 573
Loc: Mt View, CA
*.wav is actually just a riff container with pcm data. I think there is a way to properly embed *.mp3 data into a wav riff file, but I don't know how. (And here it probably wouldn't anyways.)

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#2083221 - 05/15/13 05:14 PM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9706
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Indeed, worth a try.
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2084526 - 05/18/13 02:19 AM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Cmin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
On the FP-80 I've been playing a lot with the first three SN-pianos, Concert, Ballade, and Bright. I strongly believe that these three are different sample banks. I noticed impurities in different keys, key ranges in these. In concert it is the range of Eb1-F#1 and on the bright piano it's the Ab4. It is not bad, but they are different samples. Ballade seems quite clean but also very mellow/soft in sound.

As I say - it is not bad. Maybe it is a realistic string or cabinet resonance recording.


Edited by Cmin (05/18/13 02:20 AM)
_________________________
Cheers,
Lenny

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FP-80, HP 3000s, synths, guitars, mics, MBP, interfaces, Voicelive 2, ableton, Pianoteq, nubert A-200 active monitors

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#2084569 - 05/18/13 04:59 AM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
enzo.sandrolini Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 275
Loc: Europe - France
I Have also played a lot with the FP 80
and the more I play, the more I love it.
you can tune the sound as you want and the piano dynamics / key connection to the sound, is incredibly good
I take a lot of pleasure playing with this piano.
Now I am more using my NU1 for "training" session, for improving my technics, But I am using the FP 80 for "pleasure" , this piano is perfect for my Jazz practice
As it is so easy to get the piano reacting as you want.

I have not noticed any "imperfect" sound, and really like all the SN piano sounds

For those who are asking about the hard bottom up of the keyed, I can say that I find the keybed really really good (quite light, but it is was I was looking for)
and I have no finger pain after 'very) long session.


By the way, I have a question for FP 80 owners: have you find the way for having 2 pianos sounds overlaying ? and not only a piano sound with an EP sound or string sound (which is clearly explained in the manual, but nothing about overlaying 2 piano sounds)


Cheers
_________________________
Music is a lifestyle

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#2084791 - 05/18/13 02:08 PM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: enzo.sandrolini]
Cmin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Originally Posted By: enzo.sandrolini
I
By the way, I have a question for FP 80 owners: have you find the way for having 2 pianos sounds overlaying ? and not only a piano sound with an EP sound or string sound (which is clearly explained in the manual, but nothing about overlaying 2 piano sounds)


You can only select sounds from an other bank to layer. So the only way to double pianos is to select the second piano from the 'Other' Bank (for example #41). Yes, those are GM sounds, but not all that bad.
_________________________
Cheers,
Lenny

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FP-80, HP 3000s, synths, guitars, mics, MBP, interfaces, Voicelive 2, ableton, Pianoteq, nubert A-200 active monitors

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#2085465 - 05/19/13 11:22 PM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
xorbe Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/12
Posts: 573
Loc: Mt View, CA
How does Ballade compare to Studio?

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#2086133 - 05/21/13 06:41 AM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Cmin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
All right.... here is a brain teaser:

In the functions menu the Audio Transpose does not work at all.
Another strange feature is that the Mic Harmony affects the audio input as well - I'm sure that is a flaw.



Edited by Cmin (05/21/13 07:17 AM)
_________________________
Cheers,
Lenny

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FP-80, HP 3000s, synths, guitars, mics, MBP, interfaces, Voicelive 2, ableton, Pianoteq, nubert A-200 active monitors

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#2086583 - 05/22/13 04:34 AM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1337
Loc: The Netherlands
Hi Cmin,

is there a bug report / feature request page somewhere on the Roland forum(s) and/ or corporate site ? One that does actually get through to the right people ? I suggest posting your findings there as well. If Roland doesn't hear from it , they will probably never fix or enhance things in a firmware update. I'm pretty sure no relevant Roland employee is reading this forum, so they won't be aware of flaws or things that can be done better. (If there is a a roland representative ; please reveal yourself ;-)

Just a suggestion. Mike and James are all eyes and ears and will pick up issues or request very fast when they are described on this or other fora, but for Roland I think some aggressive and properly directed action from the customers itself may be necessary to get things done...

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#2086899 - 05/22/13 03:59 PM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
Cmin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Hi JFP. It was hard enough finding a customer support email address on the Roland site. Yes, I have sent in a request a couple days ago an just now received an answer. They didn't quite get my problem though and gave me some bizarre answer. I will try it again.
_________________________
Cheers,
Lenny

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FP-80, HP 3000s, synths, guitars, mics, MBP, interfaces, Voicelive 2, ableton, Pianoteq, nubert A-200 active monitors

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#2086924 - 05/22/13 04:40 PM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Marco M Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/12
Posts: 453
Loc: Europe
Unfortunatley, after bringing up some issues on un-pragmatic behaviour of the HP, I also got from them a very short justification why things are implemented as they are, but no sign of really willing to improve something. frown
At least I got a description how to better use the HP according to the user operation workflow as they have it in mind. So, I received some 'workaround' instructions, but of course would prefere a real improvement...
_________________________
learning Piano on my Roland HP-505
before playing Drums in adults bluesband on handpicked set; before crashing E-Guitar in kids garage band; raised on home entertainment Organ and Keyboard models Eminent Solina P240, Farfisa Maharani 259R, Technics KN800, and on Mouth Organ, Recorder and Accordion

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#2086938 - 05/22/13 05:07 PM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1337
Loc: The Netherlands
"You're holding it wrong" (you dumb...).

Familiar ?

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