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#2089962 - 05/27/13 03:04 PM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Starr Keys Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/07/09
Posts: 1010
Loc: california
The speakers on the FP-7f were driving me crazy. Thanks to this thread and reading about the improvement in the speaker system in its replacement, I just exchanged my FP-7F for a FP-80, just before my 30-day return period was up and in time for the Memorial Day Sale at Guitar Center and a 15% discount!

After reading most of this thread, I think the only thing I will really miss about the fp-7F is the "lid" feature, which was graded 1-6. Did each gradation refer to a different height of an actual open Grand?--I didn't know they made them that adjustable -- and are the grand sounds on the FP-80 defaulted now to those with the lid totally closed? Also, has anyone been able to import open grand samples into the FP-80?

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#2089966 - 05/27/13 03:11 PM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Starr Keys]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Starr Keys
...Also, has anyone been able to import open grand samples into the FP-80?


Sorry, what do you mean by that ?

By the way, good question about the lid. Since it can't be adjusted anymore, is the sound setting always in what was previously known as 'closed' position ? Having the FP-80 next to the FP7f and do a 1:1 comparison over headphones might help to figure that out.

Hope you like the Fp-80. Most people didn't consider the improvements worth an upgrade from FP7F to Fp-80, but if the speakers we're your main concern, I can understand...

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#2089984 - 05/27/13 03:40 PM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Cmin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Having a FP-80 I would say it is always open.
_________________________
Cheers,
Lenny

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FP-80, HP 3000s, synths, guitars, mics, MBP, interfaces, Voicelive 2, ableton, Pianoteq, nubert A-200 active monitors

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#2089988 - 05/27/13 03:49 PM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1687
Loc: Portugal
Is there a big difference between the eq control (brilliance/tone etc) which all Roland SN pianos have anyway, and the lid open/ close filters? To put it another way: is the lid open control complex modelling or simply a glorified tone control?
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#2090061 - 05/27/13 05:49 PM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
Starr Keys Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/07/09
Posts: 1010
Loc: california
Originally Posted By: JFP
[quote=Starr Keys]...Also, has anyone been able to import open grand samples into the FP-80?

Sorry, what do you mean by that ?


Hope you like the Fp-80. Most people didn't consider the improvements worth an upgrade from FP7F to Fp-80, but if the speakers we're your main concern, I can understand...


Not sure what the terminology would be since Roland uses modeling instead of samples, but I thought I read it was easier with the FP 80 to customize and bring in voices other than those already programmed into it.

Yes, I've got a very narrow space and not having a huge Monitor or having to attach computer speakers is important. But I think Toddy is right, the air recorder feature is a also a big plus, especially when you're taking classes.

Originally Posted By: Cmin
Having a FP-80 I would say it is always open


Thanks. That's great, but then what are people complaining about? It sounds a lot better that way.




Edited by Starr Keys (05/27/13 05:54 PM)

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#2090444 - 05/28/13 03:06 AM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Starr Keys]
Cmin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
It just would be a neat feature to play around with, but it is not necessary.
(if you want a "closed" effect put a blanket over the speakers) smile


Edited by Cmin (05/28/13 03:11 AM)
_________________________
Cheers,
Lenny

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FP-80, HP 3000s, synths, guitars, mics, MBP, interfaces, Voicelive 2, ableton, Pianoteq, nubert A-200 active monitors

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#2090642 - 05/28/13 12:11 PM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
xorbe Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/12
Posts: 572
Loc: Mt View, CA
The default is not entirely open. My fav preset has it fully open. I don't know if it's just a glorified EQ setting or not.

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#2090655 - 05/28/13 12:37 PM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Starr Keys Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/07/09
Posts: 1010
Loc: california
Quote:
The default is not entirely open. My fav preset has it fully open. I don't know if it's just a glorified EQ setting or not.


That's what I was afraid of. Yes, fully open was the best.

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#2091246 - 05/29/13 09:51 AM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
rintincop Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/04
Posts: 1521
Lid effect just diminished the presence and we don't need that. We need clarity of sound, not a muffling feature. The tone knob will basically achieve the same result.
What's really important is the action and how well it is designed to provide a stress free simulation of a good grand piano's action. How is the velocity curve? Does one have to get all the way down to the bottom of the key bed to press the sensors? On a real grand I can throw the hammers very well with only half way down keystrokes. I hate playing against springs and sensors!

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#2091248 - 05/29/13 09:54 AM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
rintincop Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/04
Posts: 1521
30 pages of posts here and almost nothing about the physical action, how stressful it is or isn't, and the dynamic response curve... sigh
_________________________
1966 Mason & Hamlin piano.

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#2091455 - 05/29/13 03:00 PM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Cmin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
I would say the action is quite realistic due to the long pivot and the escapement. I personally glide and hover along the keys with ease without tiring out. The default value (50) for the key response IMHO is too light, so I usually set it a heavier. But like always it is a matter of taste.
_________________________
Cheers,
Lenny

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FP-80, HP 3000s, synths, guitars, mics, MBP, interfaces, Voicelive 2, ableton, Pianoteq, nubert A-200 active monitors

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#2095346 - 06/04/13 02:58 PM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Cmin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Just wanted to inform you that Roland will bring out an update for the FP-80 soon. So I was told by support.
_________________________
Cheers,
Lenny

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FP-80, HP 3000s, synths, guitars, mics, MBP, interfaces, Voicelive 2, ableton, Pianoteq, nubert A-200 active monitors

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#2095391 - 06/04/13 03:51 PM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Starr Keys Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/07/09
Posts: 1010
Loc: california
My Roland FP-80 is waiting for me to pick up at GC, but since I ordered it I read that the key design gemometry on the FP series is not good for small hands. This clicked because before I returned the fp-7f I worked on a song with runs and remembered thinking that all of a sudden it felt like my hand was too small for these runs, whereas I'd never had any trouble with them before. Does anyone know if they've changed the key design on the F-80? I know it's doubtful and for that reason I'm thinking of not even bothering to try it but getting a Kawai instead (went to a store and tried them out last weekend and the runs felt much less awkward.)


Edited by Starr Keys (06/04/13 03:58 PM)

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#2095457 - 06/04/13 05:01 PM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Cmin
Just wanted to inform you that Roland will bring out an update for the FP-80 soon. So I was told by support.


Since you obviously did an inquiry at Roland , any thought on what might be included in the update ?

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#2095467 - 06/04/13 05:15 PM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Starr Keys]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11938
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Starr Keys
My Roland FP-80 is waiting for me to pick up at GC, but since I ordered it I read that the key design gemometry on the FP series is not good for small hands.
The spacing of the keys and the key size is normal for a piano. I have smallish hands and it's not a problem, it's also not been a problem for when my 5-7 year old students have played on it.

Why not test it out at the store in comparison to other models?
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2095476 - 06/04/13 05:29 PM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
Cmin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Originally Posted By: JFP

Since you obviously did an inquiry at Roland , any thought on what might be included in the update ?


Harmony effect on Audio In when a mic is also hooked up to mic input should be solved. Audio transpose also didn't work correctly.

I hope the rotary effect will be switchable with the pedal too, amongst other things.
_________________________
Cheers,
Lenny

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FP-80, HP 3000s, synths, guitars, mics, MBP, interfaces, Voicelive 2, ableton, Pianoteq, nubert A-200 active monitors

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#2095549 - 06/04/13 08:09 PM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Morodiene]
Starr Keys Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/07/09
Posts: 1010
Loc: california
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Originally Posted By: Starr Keys
My Roland FP-80 is waiting for me to pick up at GC, but since I ordered it I read that the key design gemometry on the FP series is not good for small hands.
The spacing of the keys and the key size is normal for a piano. I have smallish hands and it's not a problem, it's also not been a problem for when my 5-7 year old students have played on it

Why not test it out at the store in comparison to other models?


Thanks for your input, Morodiene. If I have the same 30 days to return I did on the fP-7f, maybe I will. The other thing I heard about the fp7f was that there was a hard bottoming out with the keys that made people's hands sore -- have you or your students complained of anything like this or know if it's been addressed in the FP-80?

Oh, BTW, I don't remember it being about the size of the keys, It had something to do with spacing between black and white and relationship and with a mechanism. I'll see if I can find the original post.

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#2095974 - 06/05/13 03:48 AM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Morodiene]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2359
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Starr Keys
My Roland FP-80 is waiting for me to pick up at GC, but since I ordered it I read that the key design gemometry on the FP series is not good for small hands.

I agree that this is true with the the FP7F, compared to Kawai and Yamaha. The PHAIII keys have subtle differences in angles, edges, and size height and width of blacks (half millimetre) that I also struggled with. I posted this observation several times in the past. I only briefly tried an FP80 the other day and concluded it was the same.

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#2096034 - 06/05/13 08:47 AM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Starr Keys]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11938
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Starr Keys
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Originally Posted By: Starr Keys
My Roland FP-80 is waiting for me to pick up at GC, but since I ordered it I read that the key design gemometry on the FP series is not good for small hands.
The spacing of the keys and the key size is normal for a piano. I have smallish hands and it's not a problem, it's also not been a problem for when my 5-7 year old students have played on it

Why not test it out at the store in comparison to other models?


Thanks for your input, Morodiene. If I have the same 30 days to return I did on the fP-7f, maybe I will. The other thing I heard about the fp7f was that there was a hard bottoming out with the keys that made people's hands sore -- have you or your students complained of anything like this or know if it's been addressed in the FP-80?

Oh, BTW, I don't remember it being about the size of the keys, It had something to do with spacing between black and white and relationship and with a mechanism. I'll see if I can find the original post.
Actually, no problems have arisen from that. Every piano, even acoustics, differ slightly in key size and spacing. So these things we have to adjust to when getting accustomed to a new piano. I do prefer a heavier touch - something I can really dig into. If you didn't like the FP-7F then I highly recommend you try out the FP-80 before taking it home. It always comes down to personal preference. As for it be bad for you, I'd have to say that any action could be bad for someone if they have technical issues in their playing. Apart from that, it is all what you prefer. smile
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2096082 - 06/05/13 10:13 AM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
rintincop Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/04
Posts: 1521
I received the FP-50 2 days ago and the action is too much work to play. I will return it and be sticking with the FP-4 and it's lighter action.
_________________________
1966 Mason & Hamlin piano.

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#2096152 - 06/05/13 11:49 AM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Starr Keys Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/07/09
Posts: 1010
Loc: california
Quote:
I agree that this is true with the the FP7F, compared to Kawai and Yamaha. The PHAIII keys have subtle differences in angles, edges, and size height and width of blacks (half millimetre) that I also struggled with. I posted this observation several times in the past. I only briefly tried an FP80 the other day and concluded it was the same.


Thank you SpanishBuddha.

Originally Posted By: Morodiene
As for it be bad for you, I'd have to say that any action could be bad for someone if they have technical issues in their playing. Apart from that, it is all what you prefer.


Ouch! Touché! But that doesn't explain the fact that I didn't feel discomfort with those runs before or found them less awkward on the ES7.


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#2096287 - 06/05/13 03:12 PM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Morodiene]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2359
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
As for it be bad for you, I'd have to say that any action could be bad for someone if they have technical issues in their playing. Apart from that, it is all what you prefer. smile

Ouch for me too. Even if it's true. Playing without tension needs practice in just that. I do have a teacher too these days.

But, I would argue, as a non-teacher and from plenty of life experience, that the older adult beginner needs an instrument that is gentle on the hands during the early years of learning, or else it becomes impossible. Children and younger people have more pliable joints, tendons, ligaments, and probably no conditions such as arthritis or rheumatism.

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#2096332 - 06/05/13 03:54 PM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Starr Keys Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/07/09
Posts: 1010
Loc: california
Originally Posted By: SpanishBuddha
Ouch for me too. Even if it's true. Playing without tension needs practice in just that. I do have a teacher too these days.


Believe it or not, I now have one too (starting last Saturday, so we'll have to see if it lasts:)) One w/ great credentials and a background in Taupman, which is recommended here as the best method for tendonitis and other repetitive stress related injuries.




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#2096354 - 06/05/13 04:23 PM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Cmin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Are there any FP-50 users here?
What is your opinion? How happy are you with your instrument? It seems to be a great 'little brother'.
_________________________
Cheers,
Lenny

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FP-80, HP 3000s, synths, guitars, mics, MBP, interfaces, Voicelive 2, ableton, Pianoteq, nubert A-200 active monitors

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#2096361 - 06/05/13 04:30 PM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3050
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Cmin
Are there any FP-50 users here?
What is your opinion? How happy are you with your instrument? It seems to be a great 'little brother'.

I would welcome some more opinions and info on the FP-50, too. I'm beyond wanting to haul something the size and weight of the FP-80 to gigs, and so the 50 looks like an ideal compromise - apart from the stodgy action.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#2100821 - 06/11/13 07:27 AM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Cmin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Just a quick update:

So it is not possible (and won't be) to separate the harmony effect from the audio-in while mic-in is plugged in, according to Roland. This has to do with the new acoustic projection speaker system. The audio bus is used to split the frequencies to the different speakers on the FP-80. It has something to do with the fact that the harmony effect and reverb are split to all 4 speakers for a spacious sound. Audio transpose also does not work when both inputs are used.

The following requests have been sent to the Roland product manager:
Rotary Effect switchable with pedals.
Save Piano Designer settings in Registry.
Save Key Touch in Memory.
Pedal Noise over MIDI. (No Pedal Noise when playing from sequencer.)
Pedal Noise is audible when Local OFF.
Audio over USB.

Dear reader, please don't get me wrong. The FP-80 is a wonderful instrument. The sounds and feeling are grand. The bugs described above are very intricate and the 'normal' user will never even notice these. I happen to use this instrument to its extremes and this is more of a wish list for the next update, if it should ever happen.

Cheerio,
Cmin
_________________________
Cheers,
Lenny

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FP-80, HP 3000s, synths, guitars, mics, MBP, interfaces, Voicelive 2, ableton, Pianoteq, nubert A-200 active monitors

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#2101319 - 06/12/13 04:14 AM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: voxpops]
sh1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/22/11
Posts: 41
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Originally Posted By: Cmin
Are there any FP-50 users here?
What is your opinion? How happy are you with your instrument? It seems to be a great 'little brother'.

I would welcome some more opinions and info on the FP-50, too. I'm beyond wanting to haul something the size and weight of the FP-80 to gigs, and so the 50 looks like an ideal compromise - apart from the stodgy action.


Voxpops - I own an FP4-F and have come to get used to the action, although I could always see how some regarded it as 'sluggish'.

However I played an FP-50 instore (and have been back to try it a few more times) and must say the keybed seems improved to me. This despite the fact that the only apparent difference is the addition of escapement. It really seems to change things to me - perhaps more than it should given the subtle nature of the feature!

So much so I am now considering selling the FP4-F to upgrade. The other non-AP sounds seem more varied and plentiful too.

As a sidebar I also A/B'd it with an FP-80 and found myself actually preferring the 50 to the 80's lighter, faster feel.

As a caveat I would add I've found a lot of individual variation with the Ivory G feel keyboards I've played (including other FP4-F's), so I don't know if it was just the demo model I played of the 50 that so appealed!

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#2101410 - 06/12/13 10:13 AM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3050
Loc: Oregon
Thanks, sh1, that's useful feedback. Let us know if you go for the 50.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#2101548 - 06/12/13 03:31 PM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: sh1]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3483
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: sh1
As a sidebar I also A/B'd it with an FP-80 and found myself actually preferring the 50 to the 80's lighter, faster feel.


Wait, doesn't the FP-80 have the same PHA3 action that the FP7F has? If so, I can't imagine you would want lighter or faster. PHA3 is on the light side and definitely on the fast side when compared with acoustics.

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#2101562 - 06/12/13 03:56 PM Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3050
Loc: Oregon
The Ivory-feel G action, contrary to some misconceptions, is neither lighter nor faster than PHAIII.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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