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#2066590 - 04/18/13 02:56 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
free thinker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 31
At Merriam music in Oakville Ontario they had an fp 7f and a es7 back to back in the middle of the floor. You could play both pianos at the same time. What a difference. The fp 7f sounded so much clearer and brighter. The es7 dull in comparison. But on it's own the es7 was also compelling. Just don't play it alongside the fp 7f. Yet tastes in sound are personal and someone might prefer the es7.

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#2066596 - 04/18/13 03:07 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Marco M Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/12
Posts: 451
Loc: Europe
My HP-505 has a setting "soundboard" which upon usage at higher values lets the single tones of a block played chord sound a little bit more transparent / slightly moved stronger to the foreground and away of all this resonances noise background. It is a very, very subtle fine tuning of the SN behaviour, something you would rarely notice if not sitting in front of the DP and searching in the sound for changes when changing this parameter. It might be the same on the FP?

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#2066631 - 04/18/13 03:54 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
cubeman Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/12/13
Posts: 2
Hi free thinker,

I'm also considering this vs the Kawai ES7. Are you able to elaborate how it sounds against the ES7 using purely the onboard speakers? I know you say it is louder... I was also previously put off the FP7F by the stupendous noise the keybed made. Is it still really quite loud?

Thanks!

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#2066643 - 04/18/13 04:23 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
@ Marco - do you think the soundboard effects is comparable to the similar named effect StudioLogic claims with the new Numa Concert (listen to the demo's in the Numa Concert thread) ?

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#2066726 - 04/18/13 07:32 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: cubeman]
free thinker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 31
I never thought of the keybed noise as a problem on the fp 7f and yes the fp 80 has it too. I only had the fp 7f for a week and returned it because of the metallic noise coming from some keys. But it's looking like the fp 80 has that noise too. I'm thinking of returning it as well but in the store I couldn't detect the noise that I hear at home. I am first going to try several things beforw I return it maybe get a Roland tecnician in. Also the es7 has only a few sounds and no drum kits. I returned the es7 for that reason as the salesman told me the es7 had those things. If you don't need more sounds or drums the es7 might be for you but if you're buying the roland test it thoroughly.

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#2066737 - 04/18/13 07:54 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: free thinker]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8852
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: free thinker
...the es7 has only a few sounds and no drum kits.


Just to clarify, the ES7 features 32 sounds that can be selected via the instrument's front panel. There are a number of additional sounds (including 4 drum kits) used for the instrument's 'Rhythm Section' accompaniment feature and MIDI song playback, however these cannot be accessed via the front panel.

It's unfortunate that the sales person did not make this point clear to you.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2066880 - 04/19/13 02:55 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: free thinker]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: free thinker
I only had the fp 7f for a week and returned it because of the metallic noise coming from some keys. But it's looking like the fp 80 has that noise too. I'm thinking of returning it as well but in the store I couldn't detect the noise that I hear at home. I am first going to try several things beforw I return it maybe get a Roland tecnician in.


Out of curiosity: what kind of metallic noise do you mean:

1) Is it also audible over headphones ?
2) Is it only audible at high volume over the speakers (material resonance)
3) Is it ONLY in one, or several AP presets, or also noticeable in the other sounds like EP etc ?

If it's audible only in certain AP presets that are based on the same sampleset AND also over headphones, I think it is part of the sound itself and you can either choose to live with it or not. One thing you might try if that turns out to be the case , is dial back ALL virtual piano effects , like string resonance, hammer noise and all the rest. Than you have a clean sample based piano sound without processing. If the metallic noise is than gone, it might be one of the virtual piano effects. Try adding the effects back one-by-one and see what causes the metallic noise.

I'm very curious what the answers are and what you can find out.

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#2066945 - 04/19/13 07:15 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JazzyMac Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/09/13
Posts: 80
Originally Posted By: Cmin
Here is a nice and simple demo of the FP-50 from a Polish site (e-Muzyk.pl) at the FFM. He demonstrates the AP sounds in good sound quality.

And here is another demo of the FP-80 from our italian friends (www.suoniestrumenti.it). Thanks to John Maul for rockin out. ...Also pretty good quality.



Thanks very much for posting this. I loved how Maul gave different examples and samples of the piano. It's exactly what I wanted in a piano (before I knew I wanted it). I wanted a full up piano with piano sound to practice, but I would also love to play around with different sounds that I hear on television, radio, commercials, etc. The Yamaha P155, although a nice piece of equipment, doesn't give me that.
_________________________
Hobby 1: Photography. Bucket List 1: Learning Piano

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#2067007 - 04/19/13 09:46 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: free thinker]
Marko in Boston Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 834
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: free thinker
If I have one complaint it's a kind of distortion that I heard only once or twice. Similar to the fp-7f I had which I returned.


Hi free thinker,

Thanks for all the info on your FP-80. Would you elaborate or explain a bit more on the distortion you mention? I assume it occurs on the lower end. At what volume does it occur?

Marko


Edited by Marko in Boston (04/19/13 09:55 AM)
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2067079 - 04/19/13 11:43 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
free thinker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 31
Thanks JFP I'll try that later when I get home. A bit of a learning curve for me.
The noise is easily apparent on only some keys but the louder the volume then it can be detected in other areas of the keyboard.
It is most easily detected at d#3 and the 2 adjacent keys. This is the same area as the fp 7f.
It is also apparent over headphones but less so. And it is more apparent when you strike the key hard. However some keys will not produce the distrtion no matter how hard you hit the key. I returned the fp7f for that same reason. I believe it is also in the model with 300 in the name. I believe that possibly most Rolands (SN) have this problem but I'm guessing here. And there is the possibility that only some people may hear this noise clearly or you would get more people complaining about it. Or the noise exists only on some pianos.
I have not detected this in any kawai or yamaha.


Edited by free thinker (04/19/13 11:48 AM)

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#2067120 - 04/19/13 01:04 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
We'll can you check on headphones ? And with other sounds ? And with turning off the piano effects etc as I suggested ? In that way it will be easier to determine what's happening (material/ acoustic resonance, SN processing, the base sample set , your own ears ).

Cheers, J

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#2067123 - 04/19/13 01:08 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: free thinker]
free thinker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 31
I did as JFP suggested. Went through all the parameters. Noise still there but slightly less with some adjustments.

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#2067124 - 04/19/13 01:14 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: free thinker]
free thinker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 31
JFP noise is NOT there with earphones. I'll keep trying with earphones so I can verify that.

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#2067234 - 04/19/13 04:54 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: free thinker]
free thinker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 31
earphone sound is good.
connected to external speakers and can detect noise however they are computer speakers of average quality.

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#2067281 - 04/19/13 06:10 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: free thinker]
Kromen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/05/13
Posts: 29
Loc: Mexico
Originally Posted By: free thinker
earphone sound is good.
connected to external speakers and can detect noise however they are computer speakers of average quality.

What about using the earphones output to connect the speakers ?
_________________________
Kawai ES7
Casio PX-350

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#2067323 - 04/19/13 08:56 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Kromen]
free thinker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 31
Using earphone jack for speakers? I don't think that's possible. Afraid to damage unit.

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#2067372 - 04/19/13 10:50 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: free thinker]
xorbe Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/12
Posts: 570
Loc: Mt View, CA
Originally Posted By: free thinker
Using earphone jack for speakers? I don't think that's possible. Afraid to damage unit.

The earphone jacks can probably drive 32 ohm. The powered speakers probably have 50kOhm input. The reality is that you should probably add additional resistive load to match them up!

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#2067378 - 04/19/13 11:06 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Marko in Boston Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 834
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Please, no earphone output to speakers! I have an ES7 that sounds absolutely amazing. I use a Mackie mixer with external speakers and headphones. The mixer allows you to achieve "your" near perfect sound. Mixers are not very expensive and can make a world of difference on most DP's through headphones and/or external speakers. However, I don't care much for the Roland SN sounds, but never tried it with a mixer. Maybe it might help adjust that annoying metallic ringing sound.


Edited by Marko in Boston (04/19/13 11:13 PM)
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2067385 - 04/19/13 11:49 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Kromen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/05/13
Posts: 29
Loc: Mexico
Well I have used my casio px-350 headphones output with my computer speakers (Logitech Z-2300) without any troubles.
Maybe I should stop doing it...

Regards,
Oscar


Edited by Kromen (04/19/13 11:49 PM)
_________________________
Kawai ES7
Casio PX-350

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#2067435 - 04/20/13 02:59 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: free thinker]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: free thinker
earphone sound is good.
connected to external speakers and can detect noise however they are computer speakers of average quality.


Meaning it's not the sound engine. Leaves the amplifier , speakers, cabinet or a combination of two or three of those.

To rule out external causes:

1) I think it's possible to record directly to USB with the Roland (bypassing the amp/ speaker system). If your make a recording of the problematic region to USB and manage to playback that recording on your stereo installation with the speakers roughly at the same position as the Roland is in. If you have the same 'distortion' , it might be an acoustical resonance in your room.

2) Second thing you can do is put the Roland in another room and see if the distortion is gone. If so - than it indicates the same problem.

Wonder what the result will be...

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#2067502 - 04/20/13 08:24 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
legatoboy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 63
Loc: Huntington,LI New York
Are these keybeds and actions actually the same, I've heard they are? At the Roland site they are described differently:

FP-80
Digital Piano
Keyboard 88 keys (Ivory Feel-S Keyboard with Escapement)
RD-700NX Version 2
Keyboard 88 keys (PHA III Ivory Feel Keyboard with Escapement)

I've played the 700NX and really 'got it' in terms of the action 2nd time I went back and tried playing one at Sam Ash. It Felt and responeded really well. Are both these actions 3 sensor?

lb


Edited by legatoboy (04/20/13 08:26 AM)
_________________________
Yamaha YUX Upright, Yamaha CP50, Roland FP-80, Pianoteq Stage, Yamaha P-105,
Hammond XK-2, Korg CX-3 (ver.2), Leslie 145 w/Speakeasy PreAmp , 1964 Hammond B3/122RV Leslie

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#2067505 - 04/20/13 08:33 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Technically they are the same. RD has some fake wooden look at the sides to it due to different material used (two layers), but structural and functional they are the same. So if you like the RD keys, the FP won't disappoint you in terms of action.

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#2067514 - 04/20/13 08:53 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
legatoboy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 63
Loc: Huntington,LI New York
Thanks JFP for the verification on that...

In regard Free Thinker's problem with the distorion..

I've posted many times on the Keyboard Forums regarding some of Rolands older stage pianos having distortion and sound control problems for live, every day gigging. Thier use at home and recording or casual gigs etc is a different story. In the course of a 2 gig day my original RD700 (Or even the FP4) could sound good on one gig and horrible on the next. Yamaha's really hold up better in varied sonic environments for live use (at least for me and the music I was playing then). When they introduced the SN sample set and even before with the original FP4/7 I told Dave Ferris the new Rolands were really pretty good, a step up from the original RD700. It's a shame the distortion problems still plague their instruments to some degree regardless if it's notes or their overall leveling problem. When they are set up correctly, and can be heard in an optimum space sonically, I think most people, players and audiences really like the sound. SN is just such a nice sample set and that new action is really wonderful. May sell my FP4 and some other gear and upgrade to an FP80... I'm not letting go of my CP50 though!


Edited by legatoboy (04/20/13 09:09 AM)
_________________________
Yamaha YUX Upright, Yamaha CP50, Roland FP-80, Pianoteq Stage, Yamaha P-105,
Hammond XK-2, Korg CX-3 (ver.2), Leslie 145 w/Speakeasy PreAmp , 1964 Hammond B3/122RV Leslie

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#2067527 - 04/20/13 09:14 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
I'm still not sure where the 'distortion' is coming from and what kind of distortion he means. If you take many variables out of the equation, it might even turn out to be some acoustical / material resonance of an object in the room itself. Even a keyboard stand might 'ring' at certain notes and in a certain position. So taking the Roland of the stand, putting it in another room and trying again would be a good starting point to get to the bottom of this.

Little ego-trip thread hi-jack why I'm especially interested:
I hope it turns out to be a problem that has nothing to do with the FP-80 itself; had my finger on a good deal on the FP and haven' totally scratched it from my list yet. Put it on hold after your first post about the distortion. Actually my first choice is still the VPC1 , but until now it seems totally impossible to get my hands on one in my own region (won't order from abroad). In the meantime the Roland FP-80 came around and was offered for a decent price; so I started to doubt again, especially since I can get it from a shop in my town with good service. The VPC1 has the better keybed, and with a good virtual piano gives the best AP experience, period ! But also weighs a lot more and misses the internal sounds and speakers for just-in-case situations, or when you DON'T want to have a laptop nearby. Let's see where this ends...

Fingers crossed it's the room , or something in the room that is triggered into some kind of resonance / distortion when playing certain notes. Or indeed even the stand the Roland is put upon. If not - and it's indeed obvious a speaker distortion or cabinet distortion of some kind, it could still be just your unit (cross-check with another FP in the store!). When it turns out that all FP's have this, then Roland has to check the FP series before the next production run on a possible design issue - so that following batches won't have this problem. For you I hope it's an external factor , so you can keep the FP-80 and enjoy it !

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#2067535 - 04/20/13 09:23 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
legatoboy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 63
Loc: Huntington,LI New York
jfp,

With a new instrument release it's always best to let some time go by and hear the consensus about problems/issues from multiple people's response after they hit the street. I may just do that.!
lb


Edited by legatoboy (04/20/13 09:23 AM)
_________________________
Yamaha YUX Upright, Yamaha CP50, Roland FP-80, Pianoteq Stage, Yamaha P-105,
Hammond XK-2, Korg CX-3 (ver.2), Leslie 145 w/Speakeasy PreAmp , 1964 Hammond B3/122RV Leslie

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#2067540 - 04/20/13 09:35 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
I had the impression Roland was not particularly know for start-up problems with their products. And the FP-80 doesn't seem to be entirely new: more an evolution of the FP7F. In short I wouldn't expect much problems and still don't . Chances are its exemplary or something else...


Edited by JFP (04/20/13 09:36 AM)

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#2067602 - 04/20/13 12:42 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
free thinker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 31
The distortion sound is very similar to 'honkytonk piano'. It reminds me of an old upright I had with worn hammers and cracked soundboard. I will move the piano to another room when I get home. Thanks for the advice.

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#2067627 - 04/20/13 02:16 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Try with and without stand to make sure the stand isn't causing the resonance...(just to be more than sure)

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#2067665 - 04/20/13 03:32 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
free thinker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 31
I tried it in completely different room and no difference even witout stand. I got to thinking 'what if it's the keys themselves?' So I used the transpose function and this actually worked. If I moved the transpose settng all the way left then no more 'honkytonk' on any key. Even moving it just one notch made a difference. I moved dp to original location but won't be able to test it until sleepers wake up.

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#2067676 - 04/20/13 04:02 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Hookxs Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 247
Loc: Czech Republic
Do you mean transpose or master tunning? Of you used transposee, then the "distortion" or "resonance" probably just moved several half steps up or down, right?
I think that the first and most important thing to determine is whether or not the distortions are recordable (straight to USB drive and/or from line-outs) or not.

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