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#2059009 - 04/04/13 03:17 AM All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!!
Cmin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Please feel free to post all your questions, reviews and comments about the FP-80 & FP-50 here.


Original OP:

Roland Connect has announced today (April 4, 2013) the new series.
Let's see....

FP-80
FP-50
Brochure

FP-80 (compared to FP-7f):
+ It appears they smoothed the look by omitting the knobs on the front panel. Back to volume slider.
+ Nice, Acoustic Projection!
+ 200g weight reduction.
+ Reduced power consumption, at medium volume.
+ Super Natural E-Piano
+ Airplay (connect to iOS)

- They went from 2x1/4 inch (FP7F) to mini stereo inputs. (grrrr...)
- Seems no "Open/Close Lid" effect.

I wish they'd show a pic of the back.
And I wonder about the USB to Computer, MIDI only or also audio??? (No info yet)
________________________________________________________________________________

Edits:

Make a long story short, jump here.

Bugs


A review by Enzo.Sandrolini


Edited by Cmin (09/03/13 05:44 AM)
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#2059015 - 04/04/13 03:34 AM Re: The New Ones: FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Cmin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Does anybody know the "Ivory Feel-S Keyboard with Escapement"?
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Lenny

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#2059017 - 04/04/13 03:37 AM Re: The New Ones: FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9332
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Thanks for the heads-up!

10/10 for the video - it's beautifully done, and I love the transition from home practise to performing on stage.

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2059034 - 04/04/13 04:27 AM Re: The New Ones: FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Marco M Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/12
Posts: 453
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: Cmin
Does anybody know the "Ivory Feel-S Keyboard with Escapement"?


The "S" is not as good as the keyboard build into the HP-505. The "S" instead feels less mature, its keys do not really wobble but to me somehow felt less stabilized along their path of movement, when testing it ones in a shop. The "G" in my tests appeared much worse then the "S", then.

I would rank them like this (lowest quality to highest quality):
Ivory-Feel G
Ivory-Feel S
Ivory-Feel (without any additional letter, like on the HP-505)


Edited by Marco M (04/04/13 04:31 AM)
Edit Reason: added details
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before playing Drums in adults bluesband on handpicked set; before crashing E-Guitar in kids garage band; raised on home entertainment Organ and Keyboard models Eminent Solina P240, Farfisa Maharani 259R, Technics KN800, and on Mouth Organ, Recorder and Accordion

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#2059038 - 04/04/13 04:35 AM Re: The New Ones: FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Cmin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Maybe it is the same as the FP-7F PHA III Ivory Feel-S Keyboard with Escapement??? Just a shortened name?
_________________________
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Lenny

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#2059041 - 04/04/13 04:39 AM Re: The New Ones: FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2380
Loc: UK
Nice find, something else to drool over. That FP80 is heavy for a slab! Prices?

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#2059046 - 04/04/13 04:48 AM Re: The New Ones: FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: spanishbuddha]
Cmin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Originally Posted By: spanishbuddha
Nice find, something else to drool over. That FP80 is heavy for a slab! Prices?

+1 ...drool...
Just announced today - no prices yet.
....and it's 200g lighter than FP-7f!!! (wow, now that makes a difference)


Edited by Cmin (04/04/13 04:49 AM)
_________________________
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#2059055 - 04/04/13 05:35 AM Re: The New Ones: FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
CarloPiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 169
Originally Posted By: Cmin
Does anybody know the "Ivory Feel-S Keyboard with Escapement"?


According to Roland brochures, Ivory Feel-S (former known as PHA III Ivory Feel-S) is almost identical to PHA-III except for the fact Ivory Feel-S is built on a single plastic piece instead of two. I guess this has to do with the lack of the wooden imitation side PHA III has. HP-503 (Ivory Feel-S) and HP-505 (PHA III) feel different each other but IMHO it's not due to the action, which is almost identical, but due to amp+speakers. The final feedback the player receives depends on the sum of many factors, not only the action. As we usually see on Yamaha GH, just the same action may feel quite different on different instruments.

Something similar happens between the older HP-302 and 305. The have the same action (PHA II with escapement) except for the ivory like cover of the 305, and they share the same sound engine but they definitely feel different: the 305 feels, in my opinion, better as its amplification + speakers are more powerful, that's why I picked one instead a 302.

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#2059057 - 04/04/13 05:51 AM Re: The New Ones: FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Can anyone please highlight what's new compared to the FP7F - apart from a presumably better speaker system ? All the rest seems pretty much the same ?! Are the EP's now also Super Natural ? And real drawbar organs ? Any changes to the main AP SN sounds or other sounds ?

I know you can use a sort of airplay with the optional WLAN adapter, but such marketing gadgets don't really bother me - better know how much the PIANO is improved (better sounds / better Super antural / changes to keybed (less thumping ) ??)

And prizzzzze ? Dolphin lists the FP80 as 1762 Pounds , which is about € 2075

Expensive considering the Fp7F was about € 1799

Oh and the new backing organ with TWO displays ! What a laugh ...is that really the gadget that will outsell all competition ? One large touch screen , that can be split on certain pages will do the same and better...


Edited by JFP (04/04/13 05:54 AM)

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#2059072 - 04/04/13 06:58 AM Re: The New Ones: FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
Cmin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Originally Posted By: JFP
Can anyone please highlight what's new compared to the FP7F - apart from a presumably better speaker system ? All the rest seems pretty much the same ?! Are the EP's now also Super Natural ? And real drawbar organs ? Any changes to the main AP SN sounds or other sounds ?


Yes, E-Piano is now Super Natural
F-80 & F-50 Brochure

Originally Posted By: JFP
I know you can use a sort of airplay with the optional WLAN adapter, but such marketing gadgets don't really bother me -


Same here.
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Lenny

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#2059122 - 04/04/13 08:44 AM Re: The New Ones: FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
thomsurf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 153
Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
I'm pretty sure the AP core sound must be the same as one the current models, but in the video it sounds a bit more organic than on my 300NX. I guess Roland tweaked it to some extent so that they can justify this new model. It might even contain the brilliant and the studio SN pianos found in the 700NX...
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Roland RD800, JBL PRX612M.

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#2059134 - 04/04/13 09:03 AM Re: The New Ones: FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Keegan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 142
Loc: Canada (Ottawa, ON)
Time for us FP-7F owners to sell LOL
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Pianoteq, VI Labs Ravenscroft
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#2059161 - 04/04/13 09:38 AM Re: The New Ones: FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Keegan]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Keegan
Time for us FP-7F owners to sell LOL


For a bit better speakers and SN EP (if you care about that at all). And added € 300...

Don't think a lot of FP7f owners will be convinced. IMHO this update is very meager

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#2059194 - 04/04/13 10:23 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3080
Loc: Oregon
Roland says that the EPs are SuperNATURAL-based - not that they use the SN engine. That sounds as if they are samples derived from certain SN settings. And if you note, the blurb says: SuperNATURAL Piano technology powers the onboard grand piano sounds (my emphasis).

The upgrade to the speakers is welcome, particularly if it allows LH bass to be played without distortion, otherwise...?


Edited by voxpops (04/04/13 10:43 AM)
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#2059249 - 04/04/13 11:42 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: voxpops]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1389
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Roland says that the EPs are SuperNATURAL-based - not that they use the SN engine. That sounds as if they are samples derived from certain SN settings. And if you note, the blurb says: SuperNATURAL Piano technology powers the onboard grand piano sounds (my emphasis).
. . .


From the blurb, on another thread here:

Quote:
•Roland’s SuperNATURAL Piano sound engine onboard


That suggests the sounds really are "SuperNatural", with the modelling freedom that implies.

. Charles

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#2059252 - 04/04/13 11:46 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: voxpops]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4351
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Roland says that the EPs are SuperNATURAL-based - not that they use the SN engine. That sounds as if they are samples derived from certain SN settings. And if you note, the blurb says: SuperNATURAL Piano technology powers the onboard grand piano sounds (my emphasis).

I think this is just awkward wording. I'd be quite surprised if SN didn't really mean SN.

Originally Posted By: voxpops
The upgrade to the speakers is welcome, particularly if it allows LH bass to be played without distortion, otherwise...?

I don't like speakers placed in the keybed area, they tend to add overall length to the instrument. FP-50 is 1343mm long, the FP-80 is 1396mm, a difference of two inches - this is make or break sometimes when trying to transport it on the back seat of a car.
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#2059261 - 04/04/13 11:55 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: dewster]
Marko in Boston Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 902
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
"I don't like speakers placed in the keybed area, they tend to add overall length to the instrument. FP-50 is 1343mm long, the FP-80 is 1396mm, a difference of two inches - this is make or break sometimes when trying to transport it on the back seat of a car."

I also think tiny speakers on the side seem a little gimmicky and unnecessary. Maybe Roland will prove me wrong. However, I doubt enough to make me part with my beloved ES7.
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#2059270 - 04/04/13 12:07 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: dewster]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3080
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Roland says that the EPs are SuperNATURAL-based - not that they use the SN engine. That sounds as if they are samples derived from certain SN settings. And if you note, the blurb says: SuperNATURAL Piano technology powers the onboard grand piano sounds (my emphasis).

I think this is just awkward wording. I'd be quite surprised if SN didn't really mean SN.

If you look at the specs on the brochure, there is no adjustment available for the EPs. The AP engine includes the usual (with one or two minor variations) SN effect controls. I believe that the marketing department chooses their words very carefully...

What is interesting is that, compared with the FP-7F, there are 3 additional sounds in the AP bank, and a bunch of extra ones in the EP category. It would be nice if all the RD-700NX SN AP sounds have made it to the FP series.

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#2059273 - 04/04/13 12:29 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: voxpops]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2405
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: voxpops
What is interesting is that, compared with the FP-7F, there are 3 additional sounds in the AP bank, and a bunch of extra ones in the EP category. It would be nice if all the RD-700NX SN AP sounds have made it to the FP series.


Too true! Roland needs to get the "Studio Grand" out there on more of their products.

I think the FP80 looks pretty good. A nice shape. I have no doubt that the action is the same as PHA-III Ivory Feel-S; they've just simplified their ridiculous nomenclature, clearly.

More versatile SN pianos (without the dreaded metallic clanking mid range), better EPs and, most crucially of all, better speakers was what was needed and it looks like they just may have delivered on all points. The speakers on the FP-7F are awful so lets hope the FP-80 is much better in that respect.
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#2059277 - 04/04/13 12:32 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Marko in Boston Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 902
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Keyboard triple sensor? I did not see it anywhere


Edited by Marko in Boston (04/04/13 12:50 PM)
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#2059289 - 04/04/13 12:51 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Marko in Boston]
Cmin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia

Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston
...I also think tiny speakers on the side seem a little gimmicky and unnecessary. Maybe Roland will prove me wrong...


Those are the smaller speakers intended to project more towards the player. All in all there are 4 speakers.


Edited by Cmin (04/04/13 12:51 PM)
_________________________
Cheers,
Lenny

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FP-80, HP 3000s, synths, guitars, mics, MBP, interfaces, Voicelive 2, ableton, Pianoteq, nubert A-200 active monitors

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#2059299 - 04/04/13 01:07 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: EssBrace]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1731
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
More versatile SN pianos (without the dreaded metallic clanking mid range), .


Yep, specifically the Ab & A a +5 and 6th above middle C. It's on the 700NX with the Concert grand but not the Studio grand-very strange. That was a deal breaker for me with that board, I can't believe they missed that.
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2005 NY Steinway D, Yamaha CP4, CP5 (home use) , RCF TT08A, TT22A speakers

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#2059301 - 04/04/13 01:09 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Marko in Boston Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 902
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
@Cmin; The side speakers are so close to speakers on top I cant see how much it would make for a big difference or experience. They should have just focused on two powerful speakers like a CP300 (2x30w), or even the new Korg280 (2x22w). I just have a feeling it's still going to have some of the LH distortion of the FP7F. However, it is still clever and innovating design. Looks great, but....


Edited by Marko in Boston (04/04/13 01:16 PM)
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#2059330 - 04/04/13 01:58 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Quote : "More versatile SN pianos (without the dreaded metallic clanking mid range)"

Who said they changed anything in the AP presets ? Looks all the same to me ; no Super Natural V2 or something like that with changed and improved algorithms and/or new sample set (!)

Seems their milking the same basic set of SN sounds since SN was introduced. I hope I'm wrong and the AP is indeed improved and got rid of the artificial metallic ring...

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#2059336 - 04/04/13 02:06 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Update on price : € 1799 over here (same as FP7F) - so that's not too bad.

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#2059340 - 04/04/13 02:09 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
Cmin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Originally Posted By: JFP
Update on price : € 1799 over here (same as FP7F) - so that's not too bad.

Where???
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Lenny

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#2059360 - 04/04/13 03:05 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
torhu Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/09/12
Posts: 183
So the FP-80 is an FP-7F with possibly better speakers. Probably with the same action and the same piano sound. Maybe with better EP's (badly needed, too). And the Hammond simulator is gone.

I wish Roland would hire someone with slightly better communcation skills to write their damn ads, though.
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Roland RD-700NX // Galaxy Vintage D

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#2059368 - 04/04/13 03:20 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: torhu]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3080
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: torhu
And the Hammond simulator is gone.

No, I think the tonewheel simulator is still in there.
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#2059385 - 04/04/13 04:08 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: voxpops]
torhu Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/09/12
Posts: 183
Maybe it is, but all I can find is the phrase "essential organ tones".
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#2059387 - 04/04/13 04:13 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: torhu]
Marko in Boston Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 902
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: torhu
I wish Roland would hire someone with slightly better communcation skills to write their damn ads, though.


Kawai James a.k.a "Roland James".... just a thought ;-)
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#2059388 - 04/04/13 04:15 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: torhu]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3080
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: torhu
Maybe it is, but all I can find is the phrase "essential organ tones".

Watch the FP-80 video, and you'll see a caption overlaid that mentions the tonewheel sim. The 80 also includes the rotary effect.
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#2059393 - 04/04/13 04:20 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Marko in Boston]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston
Originally Posted By: torhu
I wish Roland would hire someone with slightly better communcation skills to write their damn ads, though.


Kawai James a.k.a "Roland James".... just a thought ;-)


Well ..."our" KJ is probably very busy finishing up the new MP manuals at te moment in time for the Messe. Seems the FP' s need some more competition. I'm curious what will materialize from Kawai, Yamaha, Korg coming week. Roland has been underwhelming so far...

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#2059416 - 04/04/13 05:15 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9332
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: JFP
I'm curious what will materialize from Kawai...


- New 'GX' series of grand pianos
- New 'CS' series of luxury digital pianos
- New 'CA15' entry-level piano-oriented digital piano
- New 'VPC1' virtual piano controller

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2059422 - 04/04/13 05:31 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Kawai James]
Marko in Boston Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 902
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: JFP
I'm curious what will materialize from Kawai...


- New 'GX' series of grand pianos
- New 'CS' series of luxury digital pianos
- New 'CA15' entry-level piano-oriented digital piano
- New 'VPC1' virtual piano controller

Cheers,
James
x



You forgot
- New 'MP' series of stage pianos

That's ok, we will wait with bated breath. Now please go back to finishing up those MP manuals for next week ;-)
_________________________
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#2059426 - 04/04/13 05:37 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
...from Kawai, .....Yamaha AND Korg coming week.

And perhaps Roland kept a secret product update for the show itself (Fantom series long overdue).

But it could very well be all wishful thinking...hardware development doesn't seem to provide many surprises any more these days. Just slow - small incremental steps. Only surprising new boy in town is VPC1 in the Kawai family.

And perhaps PX5S will do a lot in the stage portable range - however tried PX150/ 350 and 850 today and I wasn't very impressed coming from Roland, Kurzweil, Kawai and previously the old Korg (with Yamaha keybed). Biggest advantage is weight. AP doesn't impress me despite all the AIR marketing talk. The keys are not bad , but really no match for the better Rolands , Yammies and Kawais. Pitty they don't have the PX5 on display yet. Would love to compare it to the other Casio's. Keys seem to vary in sturdiness depending on the cabinet they are in. Px850 felt much more sturdy and better than the same (?) keybed in the PX150 - which wobbles and clicks too much - perhaps due to the light, thin and cheap plastic case it is in.

@James: CS series is very nice by the way. Unfortunately just a 'little' bit above my budget. Especially CS10 - beautiful...


Edited by JFP (04/04/13 05:38 PM)

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#2059427 - 04/04/13 05:38 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: voxpops]
torhu Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/09/12
Posts: 183
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Watch the FP-80 video, and you'll see a caption overlaid that mentions the tonewheel sim. The 80 also includes the rotary effect.


Cool. I can see the tonewheel editor on the display, too.
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#2059434 - 04/04/13 05:46 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Kawai James Online   content
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Registered: 09/06/07
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Has the effects engine on the FP-80 been improved?

I recall that the FP-7F wasn't terribly flexible in this regard - no options to select different effects etc.

James
x
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Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
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#2059440 - 04/04/13 05:58 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
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Well , delivery is still 13 weeks off (according to sites) and there's no manual yet, so we have to guess about that. My feeling says it's probably the same as the FP7F in terms of effects (and almost everything else). Improvements really seem to be only SN EP's , speakers and "Airplay" . No new AP , no 256 polyphony , no other fancy things to brag about. The FP7F was a good product, the FP-80 probably still is, but it doesn't impress in the list of improvements / changes / additions so far. Few extra sounds here, some design tweaks there and the rest mostly marketing talk. For new buyers just fine. For FP7F owners I see hardly any reason to upgrade...

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#2059442 - 04/04/13 06:03 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Kawai James]
voxpops Offline
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Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3080
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Has the effects engine on the FP-80 been improved?

It looks very similar to the FP-7F, except that you can adjust modulation speed for (presumably) existing non-selectable effects on certain tones. That is a small but welcome improvement, although a depth control would be more useful, IMO.

The Piano Designer, Rotary, EQ and Ambience (Reverb???) effects seem to be very similar to those in the 7F.

Quote:
I recall that the FP-7F wasn't terribly flexible in this regard - no options to select different effects etc.

To put it mildly...
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#2059443 - 04/04/13 06:09 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
xorbe Offline
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Registered: 07/31/12
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Loc: Mt View, CA
There is only one question: does it have Studio Grand?

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#2059447 - 04/04/13 06:14 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
voxpops Offline
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Registered: 03/20/07
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Loc: Oregon
You know, I really liked the FP-7F as a home instrument. I could live with its minor sonic shortcomings because the PHAIII action connected so well with the SN sound engine. I sold it recently partly because I couldn't abide its EPs, and partly because the lack of editable or controllable effects (for non AP sounds) was extremely limiting.

Going back to the Nord Piano gave me what I needed in one package (although I had to purchase new speakers). But despite the beautiful Fazioli and Bosendorfer samples, the NP can't compete with the seamless way the SN engine translates velocity information. I'd love another Roland SN product, but am doubtful as to whether the FP-80 has sufficient to make it worth it for me.
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#2059456 - 04/04/13 06:30 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: xorbe]
EssBrace Offline
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Registered: 12/01/09
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Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: xorbe
There is only one question: does it have Studio Grand?


this
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#2059552 - 04/05/13 01:56 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Cmin Offline
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Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Why, why why???
Why can't the keyboard industry take it's consumers a little more serious?
I mean, come on, if you are a musician who performs every so often, then you should know what's going on.

Roland: " The convenient rear-panel jack lets you connect an external mic and sing along with your performance..."
Who would really hook up a microphone (with a 1/4 inch jack) to his keyboard in a live situation. Isn't it quite clear that that is truly unprofessional - it is not a home karaoke system. At least put then an XLR input in the machine (with phantom power and a gain knob - I guess it would be asking for too much).

Roland: "The Acoustic Projection sound system is useful for personal monitoring on large stages, and is suitable for primary amplification in intimate venues. "
Now wouldn't that be nice. That is what I have always wished for. And then all they give you is a Stereo-Mini-Phone-Type input??? I don't want to hook up my cell phone or iPad or what ever. I want to input (preferably a symmetric) signal from a mixing board, sound interface, or monitoring system. I could then still hook up my phone if necessary.

Roland: "OUTPUT (L/MONO, R) jacks: 1/4-inch phone type"
Do I have to schlepp DI-boxes around for the rest of my life?

Roland: "Connectors: …USB COMPUTER port: USB Type B"
Presumably only MIDI. My British 2008 masterkeyboard-synth with a built-in audio-interface for 250,- could offer more with its semi-professional A/D D/A converters. Cheesh, it's 2013!!! And this is a ROLAND!!! Give me the piano sounds over USB to my DAW. And vice versa, my DAW to the piano (speakers / outputs …)

Alright, I'm gonna stop nagging. I just had to let my steam out. I really do love Roland. My first synth is a Roland from 1986 and it never needed repairs. Same with my DP from 1988 (some minor repairs to be done by myself). I just wished they (the manufacturers) would stop bringing out unripe products, especially if the technology is there and it is affordable. On one side they claim to bring out "professional" products and yet, some aspects are just sooo cheap. Yes, I would even pay more, but just give it to me.


I wonder if the these companies actually ever read these mostly good arguments and innovative ideas from the users in this forum. (Yes, I know Kawai does.... thanks 2 KJ)


Edited by Cmin (04/06/13 04:03 AM)
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#2059833 - 04/05/13 12:48 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
MarkF786 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/31/13
Posts: 25
It kills me that the FP-80 (and previous FP-7F) is superior to the FP-505 in many ways (more adjustments in the touch sensitivity, adjustable stretch tuning, Piano Designer, etc); it's very similar to the HP-507. The only advantage of the HP-505 seems to be the cabinet, speakers, and better "Ivory Feel" key surface - and it's $1000 more expensive!

I've been planing to buy an HP-505, but I'm really considering waiting for this instead. I could supplement the sound with a subwoofer if need be.

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#2059879 - 04/05/13 02:58 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: MarkF786]
JFP Offline
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Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: MarkF786
and better "Ivory Feel" key surface -


Why is it that the 505 / 507 has a better ivory surface. I may have missed it but I thought all PHA III keybeds were the same in that respect ?

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#2060222 - 04/06/13 07:18 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Dave Ferris]
slipperykeys Offline
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Registered: 03/03/12
Posts: 379
Loc: Dorset, England
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
More versatile SN pianos (without the dreaded metallic clanking mid range), .


Yep, specifically the Ab & A a +5 and 6th above middle C. It's on the 700NX with the Concert grand but not the Studio grand-very strange. That was a deal breaker for me with that board, I can't believe they missed that.


I see these comments quite regularly and feel always inclined to add my experience.

I don't hear this "metallic clanking" and nor has anybody else I have spoken to.

I have also seen posts defending it as "character".

It is not a problem for many.

There are two sides to every story.

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#2060226 - 04/06/13 07:33 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
EssBrace Offline
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Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2405
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
But the timbre of certain notes in the mid range changes quickly to a piercing, thin metallic character. The change is not linear with increasing velocity and frankly the result is not musical to my ears. And because not all notes are affected it fails to be a "characteristic" of the SN pianos but is a downright fault in my view. If it were all notes then certain adjustments with touch curves might largely address the behaviour but when it is just a cluster of notes there is nothing satisfactory that can be done.

But if you like it then I'm very happy for you because the SN-equipped Rolands are exceptional in many other respects.
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#2060248 - 04/06/13 08:39 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Marko in Boston Offline
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Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 902
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
When I was shopping DP's I noticed something similar to what EssBrace was talking about when trying the FP7F. I cant quite explain it, but I posted "... The Roland SN piano is very good for the most part, however, still can hear some sort of odd ringing tone around and above middle C. Almost distracting while playing some different pieces. Was able to edit sound and touch to help it a bit. I must admit I even heard that tinny ringing sound even in the RD700nx too."


Edited by Marko in Boston (04/06/13 08:47 AM)
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#2060284 - 04/06/13 10:15 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Marko in Boston]
slipperykeys Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/03/12
Posts: 379
Loc: Dorset, England
Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston
When I was shopping DP's I noticed something similar to what EssBrace was talking about when trying the FP7F. I cant quite explain it, but I posted "... The Roland SN piano is very good for the most part, however, still can hear some sort of odd ringing tone around and above middle C. Almost distracting while playing some different pieces. Was able to edit sound and touch to help it a bit. I must admit I even heard that tinny ringing sound even in the RD700nx too."


Yes, I have owned a RD 700 NX since August 2011 and have no problem with it.
I am learning Puccini's, "O Mio Babbino Caro" at the moment, many A flats above middle C, indeed, it starts with three repeats, but I hear no problem.

I have yet to hear it demonstrated anywhere as a "fault", You Tube for example, where the cut-off problem was shown well.

But there you go, as I say. 2 sides to every story.

BTW, I could probably write 2 sides of A4 on the things I dislike about this piano, but I would buy another one if I lost this.
Still the best out there, for me.

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#2060299 - 04/06/13 10:56 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: slipperykeys]
Marko in Boston Offline
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Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 902
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
I completely agree with you regarding "2 sides to every story"

I have an ES7, love it and would buy it again because t's what's best for me at the moment. But, like you I could write a few dislikes too.
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#2060312 - 04/06/13 11:29 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: slipperykeys]
xorbe Offline
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Registered: 07/31/12
Posts: 573
Loc: Mt View, CA
Originally Posted By: slipperykeys
I see these comments quite regularly and feel always inclined to add my experience.

I don't hear this "metallic clanking" and nor has anybody else I have spoken to.

I have also seen posts defending it as "character".

It is not a problem for many.

There are two sides to every story.

I can't hear it either. *shrug* If it's there, ignorance is bliss. Having said that, I prefer Studio over Concert regardless.

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#2060365 - 04/06/13 01:09 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
thomsurf Offline
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Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 153
Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
A guy who works in my local music store tried the FP-80 when the Roland rep stopped by a couple of weeks ago. He was very impressed with the new speakers. Otherwise no noticeable difference from FP7-F (according to him).
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#2060946 - 04/07/13 06:53 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Cmin Offline
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Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
...alright. I'm gonna jump in the cold water and order it now. (Should be here in 2 weeks).
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#2061093 - 04/08/13 01:47 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
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Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Are you sure about the two weeks ? I had an order ready this weekend until I found out that delivery time is either unknown or at least 15 weeks at all the dealers I checked. Europe too (Netherlands).

Wonder where you got the two weeks time range and if it is a reliable estimate ?

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#2061122 - 04/08/13 03:10 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
Cmin Offline
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Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Music Store.de says April 19. Maybe they're lying.
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#2061141 - 04/08/13 03:57 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
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Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
There estmated delivery dates shift like ebb and flood. I suspect they do that for all newly introduced products , just to lure people into buying (and then waiting...).

Seen it before.

But hope you're right, since the earlier they are in the hands of customers , the sooner we'll get some user reports. For me I wonder if the Studio Grand is onboard and if the PHAIII in the FP80 is a bit less thumpy, perhaps due to other cabinet design. Wishful thinking, I know...


Edited by JFP (04/08/13 03:58 AM)

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#2061426 - 04/08/13 06:28 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Cmin Offline
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Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
One has to admit though, it looks damn similar to the ES7.
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#2061710 - 04/09/13 05:42 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Marko in Boston Offline
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Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 902
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: Cmin
One has to admit though, it looks damn similar to the ES7.


Hi Cmin, have you tried the ES7? Might want to rethink the Roland purchase. If you can; compare feature to feature, then action, and then sound - especially with headphones. You might be pleasantly surprised and save a little money.
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#2061722 - 04/09/13 06:23 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
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Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
With all due respect - Roland SN and Kawai PHI are very different. You may or may not like the character of one or the other, but technically the SN piano is better in the decay / sustain phase than PHI in the ES7. You will hear that especially in the higher regions (high notes) ; they die out more quickly on the Kawai. Nothing to the disadvantage of the Kawai (I like Kawai - which is no secret), but you will have to try them both and decide for yourself - SN AP's and EP's are really good IMHO and if you want to throw extra money at it - Roland is a save choice as well.

And YES , they ES and FP7F / FP80 are very much alike, with the ES offering the most interesting price / feature ratio. At least here in Europe - in the US it's more expensive for some reason.

Other differences - ES7 has better speakers, better EP's, 256 voice polyphony and a more quiet keybed than FP7F; but the FP80 might have closed the gap in terms of speakers and EP's (SN). If the FP80 keybed is still as 'thumpy' remains to be seen. Both keybeds are very good to play (PHI-III vs RH II). Furthermore Roland has a larger display, more sounds and assignable pedal inputs (expression possible - not on ES7), but the ES7 has a nicer optional stand and 3-pedal set. The Roland mic input and harmonizer I see more as a gimmick...

We'll know more about the FP-80 this week, with Musik Messe ; hope someone can find out how good the speakers , keybed and sounds really are, or if it's really for 99% just an FP7F in a new package.

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#2061821 - 04/09/13 11:06 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Marko in Boston Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 902
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: JFP
but technically the SN piano is better in the decay / sustain phase than PHI in the ES7.


True that SN and PHI are different, but but decay /sustain can be adjusted nicely with VT.

Originally Posted By: JFP
but the FP80 might have closed the gap in terms of speaker.


I am very curious about the speakers. This is not ES7 best feature, but still pretty good. If the FP80's speakers get rave reviews i would "consider" looking into Roland. However, Im still not a big SN fan - might just be my ears, as im also one those guys that hears that "...dreaded metallic clanking mid range"

Like you say... we'll know more about the FP80 this week.
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#2061951 - 04/09/13 01:59 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Marko in Boston]
CarloPiano Offline
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Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 169
I'm thinking on saving for a FP-50. Those -200 grams made a big difference for me grin Also I guess the speakers will be a bit better than F4-F's... Shame the RD-64 doesn't reach the F1 frown

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#2061953 - 04/09/13 02:01 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
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Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
I think the speakers of the ES7 are actually quite good for a stage piano with build-in amp+speakers. At least better than most comparable DP's I've encountered so far. None of them is really comparable to separate studio monitors or a high end cabinet DP, but that's also hardly possible if you want to keep it compact and portable. The FP7F speakers we're inferior to the ES, the FP-80 might be on par or better.

By the way , there are no reviews of the FP-80 yet as far as I know and I've certainly not seen any rave reviews . Musik Messe will tell us more I hope.

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#2062648 - 04/10/13 11:32 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Marko in Boston Offline
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Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 902
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
New Musikmesse video: They look nice but I WANT TO HEAR IT!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4icBFqTTIfA
_________________________
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#2062674 - 04/11/13 12:49 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Kromen Offline
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Registered: 03/05/13
Posts: 33
Loc: Mexico
Found a video of the new FP-50 and sounds cool!

enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5ttkVK11Hw
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#2062763 - 04/11/13 05:48 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
thomsurf Offline
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Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 153
Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
FP-80 listed at Thomann for 1869 euro. Shipping in 3 weeks time...
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#2062771 - 04/11/13 06:29 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Marko in Boston Offline
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Registered: 11/30/12
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Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
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#2062773 - 04/11/13 06:39 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Does it have the SN Studio Grand (apart from the Concert Grand that was the only SN piano base for the FP7F) ?!

Can anyone on the Messe floor check ??? Any Roland representative ever (?) present on this forum to answer such questions ? Kawai and Casio are doing a great job in that respect ! Even David Weiss from Kurzweil drops in every now and then. Where's Roland ? Ignorant ? Arrogant ? Living in another time and space ?

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#2062797 - 04/11/13 08:44 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9332
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: JFP
Where's Roland ? Ignorant ? Arrogant ? Living in another time and space ?


Roland have their own forum:

http://forums.rolandclan.com/

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2062916 - 04/11/13 01:25 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Kawai James]
Cmin Offline
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Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Great, they have no FP-80 discussions in their own forum. Weak.

....Has anybody gotten Airplay to work with a MacBook Pro?


Originally Posted By: thomsurf
FP-80 listed at Thomann for 1869 euro. Shipping in 3 weeks time...

Thomann : 1799,- Euro


Edited by Cmin (04/11/13 01:45 PM)
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#2062940 - 04/11/13 01:59 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
thomsurf Offline
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Registered: 09/01/10
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Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
I guess the extra 70 euros is because I live in Denmark which has a nice 25% tax rate.
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#2062942 - 04/11/13 02:00 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Hookxs Offline
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Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 247
Loc: Czech Republic
I noticed that in the specs of FP80 they don't list "Open/close lid" setting in Effects-Piano Designer section, do you think they really took that away? All HP pianos do have this (as far as I know) and I recall that it significantly changes the sound character. Also Brilliance is missing, which was addition to HP 50x models, wasn't it? And lastly, there is no button for Reverb, can it not have reverb?

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#2062945 - 04/11/13 02:04 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Cmin Offline
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Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Originally Posted By: thomsurf
I guess the extra 70 euros is because I live in Denmark which has a nice 25% tax rate.

Buy it in Germany???

Hookxs: Yeah, I also noticed that. Strange isn't it?
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#2062947 - 04/11/13 02:06 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
thomsurf Offline
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Thomann varies the price depending on which country they're shipping to...
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#2064232 - 04/13/13 09:10 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: thomsurf]
free thinker Offline
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Posts: 31
Hi my first post.
My fp-7f definitely had a honky tonk sound at approximately the 3rd and 5th octaves, I went back to the store to see if the floor model was the same. It sure was. I showed the salesperson. To prove my point I switched quickly between those notes on Grand Piano 1 and honkytonk piano. The sounds were nearly identical. The sound was less prevelant with earphones which made me believe it was not the speakers fault. The longer you play the more the errant sound spreads to other keys. And I also detected it in other voices. Sounds like a very complicated problem. I returned it for a Kawai ES7. The SN sound is a clearly superior sound to the Kawai if it weren't for the problem keys. I'm thinking of exchanging the kawai for an fp-80 but I tried the fp-50 today (fp-80 was in stock) which was on display and I believe I detected that same errant sound as the fp-7f but the store was too busy and lots of pianos playing so not sure. So I wonder if the fp-80 has the problem too.
I also own a baby grand and I'm thinking that maybe I'm spoiled with that sound and people who play digital all the time may get used to a not so perfect sound and might not detect the fp-7f problem.

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#2064329 - 04/14/13 02:39 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
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I had one on order (could get a nice price); but when the manual was finally available I found out the FP-80 was 80% identical to the FP7F, meaning:

- same keyed
- same basic AP sound(s) - although sometime with different preset names
- 99% same other sounds
- same display and operation
- same polyphony
- same effects and eq

Improvements:
- speakers
- SN EP's
- rhythms

Gone:
- the looper
- lid simulation (why ?)

I really had hoped the other sample bases like Studio Grand had also made it in the FP-80, giving it a wider pallet of AP sounds. But for pure AP playing , I thought the differences where to small to justify the investment. So cancelled and still on the hunt...

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#2064330 - 04/14/13 02:39 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: free thinker]
peterws Online   content
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Loc: Northern England.
Usually an acoustic piano will be less perfectly in tune than a digital. So to even up things, the makers throw in the odd out of tune note for a bit of realism. That`s my theory. I don`t think it works . . . my piano has the opposite fault - a note which is perfect unison. But it is sampled over the next 5 . . .I live reasonably happily with it.
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#2064334 - 04/14/13 03:23 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Kawai James Online   content
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JFP, I believe the FP-7F had rhythm accompaniments too - it's just they were called 'Session Partner'.

James
x
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#2064346 - 04/14/13 04:29 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
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I know - but the FP-80 accompaniment has been reworked, extended and improved.

But personally I don't care at all about these gadgets ; just want good action, good and realistic sounds and a good connection between the two. If a good speaker system is added as a bonus , that could in practice save me the hassle of extra external equipment ; but if better speakers is the main improvement of the FP-80 and all else is roughy the same, then IIMHO the Roland is not innovative enough to justify the steep price. I know the EP's are SN too now, but that is not totally new either, they have been around on some other models for a quite while.

The addition of the 'other' AP sample sound sets (studio grand/ brilliant grand) would have made me buy the FP-80, despite the fact that the keybed may still be as 'thumpy' as in the previous Roland models (no comments from people who tried the FP-80 on that ??) . Because I simply like the sound of the Studio Grand better than the 'standard' SN AP you find in most models.

Now I consider to go all software or wait for some more reports on the alternatives that have other advantages:
- software and fixed setup (not for take-away) as I was planning to do in the first place (VPC1),
- low weight, interesting price and many sounds and features (PX5S + extra MIDI box for half-damping) ,
- extended masterkeyboard functionality, relatively light weight and still the option to use internal sounds (Pysispiano K4)
- Nice wooden action, relative light weight (!) and an AP grand sound I liked so far (from the only demo that is available); SL Numa Concert

But I'm hijacking the conversation here. Please continue...- only thing I tried to emphasize is that for AP playing I think the FP7F are pretty much the same , apart from the speakers; making the FP-80 such a strange beast for a "new" product. Too much recycling, to little innovation...


Edited by JFP (04/14/13 04:34 AM)

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#2064347 - 04/14/13 04:33 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
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Originally Posted By: Cmin
Great, they have no FP-80 discussions in their own forum. Weak.


Considering the lack of innovation as described above I think it won't attract much attention and people seriously consider the (often cheaper) alternatives. Why is it that Roland thinks they have to sell products by adding Airplay like functionality (it had an input already to plug-in your playing device) ? It's a piano ; improve where it counts and people will come (not in gimmicks and gadgets).

Just my thoughts


Edited by JFP (04/14/13 04:33 AM)

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#2064385 - 04/14/13 08:59 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Marko in Boston Offline
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FP-80

Again, I just want to hear the damn thing!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcqt1nCYeks
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#2064409 - 04/14/13 10:15 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
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@marko,

Have you seen the Messe floor recording of the Numa Concert; all talk and talk and talk and he touched the keys exactly zero time. Strange way to sell a keyboard, but it seems to be quite common...

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#2064421 - 04/14/13 10:47 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
slipperykeys Offline
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Registered: 03/03/12
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You have got to laugh at these "demos", if Beethoven is reincarnated in today's Germany I bet he is a computer programmer this time around.
He'd be a good one, obviously..... just keep looking for a computer programmer with lots of hair and a hearing-aid.

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#2064428 - 04/14/13 10:58 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
Marko in Boston Offline
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I saw that too. It's driving me crazy! very simple; stop "talking" about the features. I want to "read" about the features and specs. Why would you not "play" the keyboard in a video demo is beyond my comprehension.
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#2064434 - 04/14/13 11:08 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
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Loc: The Netherlands
We'll , they don't actually drive the new cars on the show floor at a car exhibition either. Just missing the barby models you usually see at an auto show ;-) That would make up for the lack of audio demo's a little..., if your ears can't get nothing , your eyes...

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#2064441 - 04/14/13 11:29 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
free thinker Offline
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Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 31
If indeed the fp-80 is just a recycled fp 7f , and it's the same price as well, then maybe they have fixed the 'honkytonk' sound coming through the grand piano 1 and that is the sole purpose of this new product.

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#2064475 - 04/14/13 12:34 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
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Loc: The Netherlands
It's the same grand-piano sound (sample base), so ...

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#2064489 - 04/14/13 12:55 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Marko in Boston]
KLSinCT Offline
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Registered: 02/07/12
Posts: 148
Loc: Stonington, CT USA
Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston
FP-80

Again, I just want to hear the damn thing!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcqt1nCYeks



Dumb question: Is the "Ivory-S" key-action in this new model the same as the PHA-III action with triple sensors in my FP-7F? I've yet to find a straight answer to this basic question...

K.
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#2064494 - 04/14/13 01:01 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
xorbe Offline
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Registered: 07/31/12
Posts: 573
Loc: Mt View, CA
Seems like losing the looper and lid simulation are huge losses to me. They are probably still there, just inaccessible.

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#2064503 - 04/14/13 01:14 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
Hookxs Offline
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Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 247
Loc: Czech Republic
Originally Posted By: JFP
I had one on order (could get a nice price); but when the manual was finally available...


Where did you get the manual? It is not on rolandus.com web site.

BTW: FP-50 can be heard on these videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5ttkVK11Hw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWirjnQYRTg

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#2064528 - 04/14/13 02:30 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
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Loc: The Netherlands
Correct - inside information. I think it wasn't ready yet for public release, but seemed pretty final.

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#2064557 - 04/14/13 03:45 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
free thinker Offline
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Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 31
JFP : "It's the same grand-piano sound (sample base), so "

I'm talking about the buzzing sound coming from certain sections of the keyboard on the fp-7f. Whether this was corrected on the fp 80. If it is I'm buying one.

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#2064560 - 04/14/13 03:51 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: free thinker]
spanishbuddha Offline
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Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2380
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: free thinker
JFP : "It's the same grand-piano sound (sample base), so "

I'm talking about the buzzing sound coming from certain sections of the keyboard on the fp-7f. Whether this was corrected on the fp 80. If it is I'm buying one.

Just out of curiosity, why in this case would you prefer the FP80 to the RD700NX. Price perhaps, or some other function? Can't be the speakers (please!).


Edited by spanishbuddha (04/14/13 03:52 PM)

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#2064645 - 04/14/13 07:26 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: spanishbuddha]
free thinker Offline
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Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 31
I prefer the fp 80 because of price mainly and I don't mind the small speakers as the piano will be used only at home with headphones also it's smaller in size. Both these pianos are available in the Toronto area. I only tried the fp 50 and I couldn't determine if Roland fixed the buzzing sound found in many fp 7f's as there was too much noise in the showroom.


Edited by free thinker (04/14/13 07:34 PM)

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#2064698 - 04/14/13 10:22 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
voxpops Offline
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Loc: Oregon
Here's a demo of the FP-80:
Roland FP-80

Unfortunately, as usual, the sound quality of the recording is not the best, but it does give an idea of the main features. Still no word on whether there is a new sample alongside the Concert Grand, or whether it's just variations on a theme.

As a side note, I was looking at the Casio PX-5S as a possible lightweight gigging board. I went into GC today to have another go on the PX-350, to see whether I might rethink whether the APs would work for me. While they are silky-smooth sounding and dynamic, I find the upper-mids a trifle annoying, and I noticed how jumpy the action/sound connection can be. I've decided to pass on the PX-5S (although I think that it offers a huge bang for the buck, if you need all the non-piano stuff), and I'm considering the new FPs. The FP-50 is nowhere near as lightweight as the Casio, and it misses a few nice features of the FP-80, but I'm thinking it could be a very versatile small gigs board, in the absence of anything competitive from Yamaha.
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#2064716 - 04/14/13 11:22 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: voxpops]
EssBrace Offline
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Originally Posted By: voxpops
Here's a demo of the FP-80:
Roland FP-80

Unfortunately, as usual, the sound quality of the recording is not the best, but it does give an idea of the main features. Still no word on whether there is a new sample alongside the Concert Grand, or whether it's just variations on a theme.


Well spotted Vox.

He says something like "12 acoustic piano sounds". Well, FP-7F has what, three? All the same piano. I reckon there's a healthy chance the Studio Grand - or something very like it - is onboard the FP-80. I like the look and spec of this thing. Another winner for Roland I expect.
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#2064762 - 04/15/13 01:51 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
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Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Studio Grand is not onboard.

It has more AP presets/ other preset names, but all based on the same sample-set as before. Perhaps some slight changes in programming of designer or EQ ? If it had the 'other' SN AP's I would have bought it, since I got a good price offer ! That's why I checked with several Roland reps and got the manual from inside to check myself. Sorry...

About the Casio ;
yes for a piano it didn't do it for me either - not as sophisticated / subtle keybed to sound connection as with more expensive board. Keybed also has only three preset touch curves, neither worked for me personally for AP. Also the AP is good for gigging an rock / pop stuff , but for classical and delicate Jazz the upper halve is too much "pling pling" and audible looping in high notes, despite longer samples. PX5S is a very very nice board, but for pure AP it doesn't do it for me. For people searching for an all-round board with many nice sounds and features it's a no-brainer at this price...I almost pre-ordered it twice, meaning how tempting it is. If I'd needed something for a band, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. And that's also it's intended audience mostly, considering it's a lightweight stage piano / controller board.

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#2064784 - 04/15/13 03:17 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
Hookxs Offline
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Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 247
Loc: Czech Republic
Originally Posted By: JFP
Studio Grand is not onboard.


That's disappointing, really. It is supposed to have 14 piano tones but I guess it will be one or two pianos, plus endless combinations of piano+something plus the unavoidable honky tonk which nobody ever uses. Sad. I find it hard to believe that company with so little innovative effort could have brought the V-Piano.

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#2064785 - 04/15/13 03:38 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
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The "innovation " is in the speakers, adding SN Ep's (which they should have done in the first place on the FP7f) and gimmicks like AirPlay . If your using headphones or external speakers and are mainly interested in the action and AP, the FP80 is the same as the FP7f IMHO.

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#2064821 - 04/15/13 07:00 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
EssBrace Offline
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Registered: 12/01/09
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Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Thanks JFP. Odd that they wouldn't utilise the Studio Grand in other products although I guess it adds perceived value to the RD-700NX as an exclusive voice. That said, they make no claims in that regard so they haven't capitalised as they could have done in relation to a marketing advantage for the RD.

I know the quality of the audio is poor on the video but to be fair I don't hear so much of the metallic velocity transitions so maybe the pianos are tweaked slightly?

So, how much better are the speakers? The FP7's are rudimentary to say the least, giving the pianos a compressed, muffled and indistinct character in my opinion.

Cheers,

Steve
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#2065123 - 04/15/13 06:37 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Kromen Offline
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Registered: 03/05/13
Posts: 33
Loc: Mexico
Any idea of how the key action of the FP-80 is? I mean is the same (loud, thumpy) as the previous Roland models?

Regards,
Kromen
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#2065706 - 04/16/13 08:01 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Kromen]
free thinker Offline
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Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 31
Got my fp 80 today. Very much like the fp 7f. Looks like the onboard recorder records only one layer. Also the headphone jack is standard 1/4 inch size. I still can hear a buzzing from a couple of areas of the keyboard but had no time to dicker with equalizer etc to try correcting. Xtra speakers sound noticeably better.

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#2065732 - 04/16/13 09:47 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: voxpops]
dewster Offline
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Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4351
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: voxpops
I went into GC today to have another go on the PX-350, to see whether I might rethink whether the APs would work for me. While they are silky-smooth sounding and dynamic, I find the upper-mids a trifle annoying...

I've noticed this too in the various on-line demos. Kind of "plinky" or something in the upper-mids.
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#2065734 - 04/16/13 09:53 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: dewster]
free thinker Offline
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Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 31
I think it has something to do with the room or the position in the room. When I bought mine they took one out of stock for me to test as they only had the fp 50 displayed. The fp 80 sounded very good in the store.

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#2065844 - 04/17/13 03:37 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Cmin Offline
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Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Free Thinker: Tell us more. Where did you get yours? How does it feel? Are the speakers louder or clearer than the FP-7F? What pianos are on board? How are EPs?

Waiting for my delivery impatiently.... it's killing me.


Edited by Cmin (04/17/13 07:24 AM)
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#2065851 - 04/17/13 04:52 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
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Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
- How is the new onboard speaker configuration performing ? Is it really good, or do you still require external monitors ?
- How is the keybed - same thumpy-ness as the FP7F / RD700NX ? Perhaps less keynoise / bottoming out due to slightly other cabinet ?
- Any improvement / change in SN AP sound(s) ?!

Those are the most important parts of the FP-80 I'm very curious about.

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#2065866 - 04/17/13 06:19 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
EssBrace Offline
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Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2405
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Sorry JFP, from your previous post I assumed you had played the FP-80 - when you say categorically that the Studio Grand is not onboard. But now you're asking if there's "any improvement/change in SN AP sounds". So you don't actually know the Studio Grand is not on it? It may not be called that but that voice - or something related to it - may be onboard. None of us know yet it would appear.
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#2065902 - 04/17/13 08:11 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Cmin Offline
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Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Here is a nice and simple demo of the FP-50 from a Polish site (e-Muzyk.pl) at the FFM. He demonstrates the AP sounds in good sound quality.

And here is another demo of the FP-80 from our italian friends (www.suoniestrumenti.it). Thanks to John Maul for rockin out. ...Also pretty good quality.



Edited by Cmin (04/17/13 08:13 AM)
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#2065907 - 04/17/13 08:26 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: EssBrace]
JFP Offline
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Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Sorry JFP, from your previous post I assumed you had played the FP-80 - when you say categorically that the Studio Grand is not onboard. But now you're asking if there's "any improvement/change in SN AP sounds". So you don't actually know the Studio Grand is not on it? It may not be called that but that voice - or something related to it - may be onboard. None of us know yet it would appear.


I know it's not on board -> I checked that out with several Roland Reps, People from a Roland dealer and from the Manual - before it was out in the shops, or the manual online. All indicated that the SN AP sounds was NOT extended with the Studio or Brilliant. If the Studio WAS indeed in teh FP-80 , I would have the FP-80 right now under my hands (local stock arrived yesterday).

What I am curious about however is if the basic SN sounds - presumably based on the same samples as on the FP7F - have been improved somewhat in one way or another. Also if the keybed is slightly less thumpy. If both are noticeably better than before, I might put the FP back on my shortlist again, despite the absence of Studio Grand.


Edited by JFP (04/17/13 08:27 AM)

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#2065958 - 04/17/13 10:42 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
free thinker Offline
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Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 31
For my situation (at home)the onboard speakers are great. I tried the other piano sounds and I was impressed with them although I don't recall their names since I use mostly Grand piano. I love the keyboard. If I have one complaint it's a kind of distortion that I heard only once or twice. Similar to the fp-7f I had which I returned. As I said I have not as yet tackled that, it could be room placement , equalizer, etc. The piano in-store did not have this problem. I bought it at Long And Mcquaid's in the Toronto area for $1960.

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#2066030 - 04/17/13 01:50 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
Hookxs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 247
Loc: Czech Republic
Originally Posted By: JFP
- How is the new onboard speaker configuration performing ? Is it really good, or do you still require external monitors ?
- How is the keybed - same thumpy-ness as the FP7F / RD700NX ? Perhaps less keynoise / bottoming out due to slightly other cabinet ?
- Any improvement / change in SN AP sound(s) ?!

Those are the most important parts of the FP-80 I'm very curious about.


I subscribe to JFP's questions. Free-thinker - could you tell us more about the piano, especially the points listed above? If you could post some (solo piano) recording, it would be icing on the cake:-)

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#2066114 - 04/17/13 05:04 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Hookxs]
Kromen Offline
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Registered: 03/05/13
Posts: 33
Loc: Mexico
Originally Posted By: Hookxs
Originally Posted By: JFP
- How is the new onboard speaker configuration performing ? Is it really good, or do you still require external monitors ?
- How is the keybed - same thumpy-ness as the FP7F / RD700NX ? Perhaps less keynoise / bottoming out due to slightly other cabinet ?
- Any improvement / change in SN AP sound(s) ?!

Those are the most important parts of the FP-80 I'm very curious about.


I subscribe to JFP's questions. Free-thinker - could you tell us more about the piano, especially the points listed above? If you could post some (solo piano) recording, it would be icing on the cake:-)


I subscribe to this petition too :D, because I am between this one and a Kawai ES7 (if I can find one frown here in México)

Regards,
Oscar
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#2066190 - 04/17/13 07:20 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Kromen]
free thinker Offline
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Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 31
Hi, IMO the speakers are at least 50% louder than the fp-7f and are louder than the es7 which I returned Sunday. I liked the es7 but the sound was too mellow for my taste and it didn't have many sounds or any drum kits . I will never need external speakers for the fp-80 as they are plenty loud for just using in large room at home.
I never tried the rd700nx but I believe the keyboard is the same as the fp-7f which I liked anyways especially after spending 45min at the store using various keyboards. Yes there is thumping when pressing keys when powered off if that's what you mean.
As far as the SN ap sounds on the fp-80 I like them and find most of them realistic but can't give you a definite answer because I rarely used them on the fp-7f to compare the two.
the first 3 pianos are very good-- 1-concert piano, 2-balladepiano, 3-bright piano also 10- comp piano.
the others ; dreamy piano, piano + ep, piano + strings, piano + pad, piano + choir, magical piano, rock piano, ragtime, harpsichord, coupled hps -- some seem a little gimmicky and I doubt I will use them much.
I hope that helps but there is nothing like going down there and trying them out for yourself since it is a very personal thing. For instance the es7 I returned was too mellow almost hollowed-out sounding for me and prefer the fp=80 even though I may never resolve the twangy noise at d# 3 and the 2 adjacent notes.
By the way Oscar, where are you in Mexico? Just got back from a great 3 weeks in Puerto Vallarta.


Edited by free thinker (04/17/13 07:23 PM)

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#2066217 - 04/17/13 08:44 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: free thinker]
Kromen Offline
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Registered: 03/05/13
Posts: 33
Loc: Mexico
Hi, thanks free thinker for your info.

Regarding this, could you tell me how the FP-80 key action of the compares with the ES7 ?

Quote:
By the way Oscar, where are you in Mexico? Just got back from a great 3 weeks in Puerto Vallarta.

Nice! thats a beautiful place to vacation (like many here in México wink )
I live in Yucatán Peninsula (in southeastern México) which also is a really nice place to vacation, so I cant really blame on that laugh

Regards,
Oscar
_________________________
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Casio PX-350

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#2066221 - 04/17/13 08:59 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Kromen]
free thinker Offline
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Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 31
I liked the action on the fp-80 immediately (and equal or better than es7) and I'm used to a young chang baby grand. The ivory feel is also a plus and better than the shiny plastic of the grand.


Edited by free thinker (04/17/13 09:01 PM)

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#2066278 - 04/17/13 11:29 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: free thinker]
Kromen Offline
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Registered: 03/05/13
Posts: 33
Loc: Mexico
Awesome, thanks free thinker

Regards,
Oscar
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Casio PX-350

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#2066386 - 04/18/13 06:28 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Hookxs Offline
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Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 247
Loc: Czech Republic
Thank you free thinker! It seems to me that after years of hard work on the most realistic piano samples, their names have been perfected. Or am I just too cynical?:-) Anyway, glad that you are happy with the piano, I believe that it is pretty good board.

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#2066422 - 04/18/13 08:03 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Marko in Boston Offline
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Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 902
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
This is just how I expected it to sound (starting at 1:03) ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mNSJR0NZ54



Edited by Marko in Boston (04/18/13 08:31 AM)
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#2066454 - 04/18/13 09:27 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
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You mean totally distorted ?! I assume you're being cynical. About SN : if they got it right (or almost right) in the first place, then why would the same sound 2 years later suddenly be completely outdated.

Kurzweil milked their triple for , what...about 20 years ? And it's still on current boards. Yamaha seems to be in recycling mode as well, and Korg doesn't seem to get that smoothing effects like string resonance, unnoticable layer switching are also part of the job, apart from long samples. Casio has larger sample ram, but uses the same piano sample as before, just longer. I would have liked to see an enhanced SN version 2 from Roland as well, but even without the SN is still one of the better sounding DP sounds out there. Apart from SW Piano's of course.

Funny thing is no-one has still any idea yet if the SN AP is 100% exactly the same as in the FP7f, or that Roland introduced indeed some slight improvements. And then I don't mean only in the preset naming...Edit: we'll one thing I found is that the FP-80 has soundboard behavior modeling, whereas the FP7f has not.


Edited by JFP (04/18/13 10:26 AM)

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#2066515 - 04/18/13 11:52 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
mabraman Offline
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Registered: 12/24/12
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I hardly believe that the ES7 is more "mellow" than any Roland. No way, unless you were talking about the upper octaves, those so-called metallic.
In fact, the main characteristic of the Rolands is their sweet and deep low register.Isn't it?
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Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
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#2066584 - 04/18/13 02:36 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
Cmin Offline
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Loc: Swabia
Originally Posted By: JFP
Edit: we'll one thing I found is that the FP-80 has soundboard behavior modeling, whereas the FP7f has not.


What do you mean with soundboard behavior???
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#2066590 - 04/18/13 02:56 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
free thinker Offline
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Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 31
At Merriam music in Oakville Ontario they had an fp 7f and a es7 back to back in the middle of the floor. You could play both pianos at the same time. What a difference. The fp 7f sounded so much clearer and brighter. The es7 dull in comparison. But on it's own the es7 was also compelling. Just don't play it alongside the fp 7f. Yet tastes in sound are personal and someone might prefer the es7.

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#2066596 - 04/18/13 03:07 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Marco M Offline
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My HP-505 has a setting "soundboard" which upon usage at higher values lets the single tones of a block played chord sound a little bit more transparent / slightly moved stronger to the foreground and away of all this resonances noise background. It is a very, very subtle fine tuning of the SN behaviour, something you would rarely notice if not sitting in front of the DP and searching in the sound for changes when changing this parameter. It might be the same on the FP?

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#2066631 - 04/18/13 03:54 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
cubeman Offline
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Registered: 04/12/13
Posts: 2
Hi free thinker,

I'm also considering this vs the Kawai ES7. Are you able to elaborate how it sounds against the ES7 using purely the onboard speakers? I know you say it is louder... I was also previously put off the FP7F by the stupendous noise the keybed made. Is it still really quite loud?

Thanks!

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#2066643 - 04/18/13 04:23 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
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Loc: The Netherlands
@ Marco - do you think the soundboard effects is comparable to the similar named effect StudioLogic claims with the new Numa Concert (listen to the demo's in the Numa Concert thread) ?

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#2066726 - 04/18/13 07:32 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: cubeman]
free thinker Offline
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Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 31
I never thought of the keybed noise as a problem on the fp 7f and yes the fp 80 has it too. I only had the fp 7f for a week and returned it because of the metallic noise coming from some keys. But it's looking like the fp 80 has that noise too. I'm thinking of returning it as well but in the store I couldn't detect the noise that I hear at home. I am first going to try several things beforw I return it maybe get a Roland tecnician in. Also the es7 has only a few sounds and no drum kits. I returned the es7 for that reason as the salesman told me the es7 had those things. If you don't need more sounds or drums the es7 might be for you but if you're buying the roland test it thoroughly.

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#2066737 - 04/18/13 07:54 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: free thinker]
Kawai James Online   content
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Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9332
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: free thinker
...the es7 has only a few sounds and no drum kits.


Just to clarify, the ES7 features 32 sounds that can be selected via the instrument's front panel. There are a number of additional sounds (including 4 drum kits) used for the instrument's 'Rhythm Section' accompaniment feature and MIDI song playback, however these cannot be accessed via the front panel.

It's unfortunate that the sales person did not make this point clear to you.

Kind regards,
James
x
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Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
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"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2066880 - 04/19/13 02:55 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: free thinker]
JFP Offline
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Registered: 07/19/10
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Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: free thinker
I only had the fp 7f for a week and returned it because of the metallic noise coming from some keys. But it's looking like the fp 80 has that noise too. I'm thinking of returning it as well but in the store I couldn't detect the noise that I hear at home. I am first going to try several things beforw I return it maybe get a Roland tecnician in.


Out of curiosity: what kind of metallic noise do you mean:

1) Is it also audible over headphones ?
2) Is it only audible at high volume over the speakers (material resonance)
3) Is it ONLY in one, or several AP presets, or also noticeable in the other sounds like EP etc ?

If it's audible only in certain AP presets that are based on the same sampleset AND also over headphones, I think it is part of the sound itself and you can either choose to live with it or not. One thing you might try if that turns out to be the case , is dial back ALL virtual piano effects , like string resonance, hammer noise and all the rest. Than you have a clean sample based piano sound without processing. If the metallic noise is than gone, it might be one of the virtual piano effects. Try adding the effects back one-by-one and see what causes the metallic noise.

I'm very curious what the answers are and what you can find out.

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#2066945 - 04/19/13 07:15 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JazzyMac Offline
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Registered: 04/09/13
Posts: 84
Originally Posted By: Cmin
Here is a nice and simple demo of the FP-50 from a Polish site (e-Muzyk.pl) at the FFM. He demonstrates the AP sounds in good sound quality.

And here is another demo of the FP-80 from our italian friends (www.suoniestrumenti.it). Thanks to John Maul for rockin out. ...Also pretty good quality.



Thanks very much for posting this. I loved how Maul gave different examples and samples of the piano. It's exactly what I wanted in a piano (before I knew I wanted it). I wanted a full up piano with piano sound to practice, but I would also love to play around with different sounds that I hear on television, radio, commercials, etc. The Yamaha P155, although a nice piece of equipment, doesn't give me that.
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#2067007 - 04/19/13 09:46 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: free thinker]
Marko in Boston Offline
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Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 902
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: free thinker
If I have one complaint it's a kind of distortion that I heard only once or twice. Similar to the fp-7f I had which I returned.


Hi free thinker,

Thanks for all the info on your FP-80. Would you elaborate or explain a bit more on the distortion you mention? I assume it occurs on the lower end. At what volume does it occur?

Marko


Edited by Marko in Boston (04/19/13 09:55 AM)
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#2067079 - 04/19/13 11:43 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
free thinker Offline
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Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 31
Thanks JFP I'll try that later when I get home. A bit of a learning curve for me.
The noise is easily apparent on only some keys but the louder the volume then it can be detected in other areas of the keyboard.
It is most easily detected at d#3 and the 2 adjacent keys. This is the same area as the fp 7f.
It is also apparent over headphones but less so. And it is more apparent when you strike the key hard. However some keys will not produce the distrtion no matter how hard you hit the key. I returned the fp7f for that same reason. I believe it is also in the model with 300 in the name. I believe that possibly most Rolands (SN) have this problem but I'm guessing here. And there is the possibility that only some people may hear this noise clearly or you would get more people complaining about it. Or the noise exists only on some pianos.
I have not detected this in any kawai or yamaha.


Edited by free thinker (04/19/13 11:48 AM)

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#2067120 - 04/19/13 01:04 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
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Loc: The Netherlands
We'll can you check on headphones ? And with other sounds ? And with turning off the piano effects etc as I suggested ? In that way it will be easier to determine what's happening (material/ acoustic resonance, SN processing, the base sample set , your own ears ).

Cheers, J

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#2067123 - 04/19/13 01:08 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: free thinker]
free thinker Offline
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Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 31
I did as JFP suggested. Went through all the parameters. Noise still there but slightly less with some adjustments.

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#2067124 - 04/19/13 01:14 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: free thinker]
free thinker Offline
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Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 31
JFP noise is NOT there with earphones. I'll keep trying with earphones so I can verify that.

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#2067234 - 04/19/13 04:54 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: free thinker]
free thinker Offline
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Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 31
earphone sound is good.
connected to external speakers and can detect noise however they are computer speakers of average quality.

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#2067281 - 04/19/13 06:10 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: free thinker]
Kromen Offline
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Registered: 03/05/13
Posts: 33
Loc: Mexico
Originally Posted By: free thinker
earphone sound is good.
connected to external speakers and can detect noise however they are computer speakers of average quality.

What about using the earphones output to connect the speakers ?
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#2067323 - 04/19/13 08:56 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Kromen]
free thinker Offline
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Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 31
Using earphone jack for speakers? I don't think that's possible. Afraid to damage unit.

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#2067372 - 04/19/13 10:50 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: free thinker]
xorbe Offline
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Registered: 07/31/12
Posts: 573
Loc: Mt View, CA
Originally Posted By: free thinker
Using earphone jack for speakers? I don't think that's possible. Afraid to damage unit.

The earphone jacks can probably drive 32 ohm. The powered speakers probably have 50kOhm input. The reality is that you should probably add additional resistive load to match them up!

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#2067378 - 04/19/13 11:06 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Marko in Boston Offline
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Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 902
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Please, no earphone output to speakers! I have an ES7 that sounds absolutely amazing. I use a Mackie mixer with external speakers and headphones. The mixer allows you to achieve "your" near perfect sound. Mixers are not very expensive and can make a world of difference on most DP's through headphones and/or external speakers. However, I don't care much for the Roland SN sounds, but never tried it with a mixer. Maybe it might help adjust that annoying metallic ringing sound.


Edited by Marko in Boston (04/19/13 11:13 PM)
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#2067385 - 04/19/13 11:49 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Kromen Offline
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Registered: 03/05/13
Posts: 33
Loc: Mexico
Well I have used my casio px-350 headphones output with my computer speakers (Logitech Z-2300) without any troubles.
Maybe I should stop doing it...

Regards,
Oscar


Edited by Kromen (04/19/13 11:49 PM)
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#2067435 - 04/20/13 02:59 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: free thinker]
JFP Offline
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Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: free thinker
earphone sound is good.
connected to external speakers and can detect noise however they are computer speakers of average quality.


Meaning it's not the sound engine. Leaves the amplifier , speakers, cabinet or a combination of two or three of those.

To rule out external causes:

1) I think it's possible to record directly to USB with the Roland (bypassing the amp/ speaker system). If your make a recording of the problematic region to USB and manage to playback that recording on your stereo installation with the speakers roughly at the same position as the Roland is in. If you have the same 'distortion' , it might be an acoustical resonance in your room.

2) Second thing you can do is put the Roland in another room and see if the distortion is gone. If so - than it indicates the same problem.

Wonder what the result will be...

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#2067502 - 04/20/13 08:24 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
legatoboy Offline
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Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 65
Loc: Huntington,LI New York
Are these keybeds and actions actually the same, I've heard they are? At the Roland site they are described differently:

FP-80
Digital Piano
Keyboard 88 keys (Ivory Feel-S Keyboard with Escapement)
RD-700NX Version 2
Keyboard 88 keys (PHA III Ivory Feel Keyboard with Escapement)

I've played the 700NX and really 'got it' in terms of the action 2nd time I went back and tried playing one at Sam Ash. It Felt and responeded really well. Are both these actions 3 sensor?

lb


Edited by legatoboy (04/20/13 08:26 AM)
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#2067505 - 04/20/13 08:33 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
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Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Technically they are the same. RD has some fake wooden look at the sides to it due to different material used (two layers), but structural and functional they are the same. So if you like the RD keys, the FP won't disappoint you in terms of action.

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#2067514 - 04/20/13 08:53 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
legatoboy Offline
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Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 65
Loc: Huntington,LI New York
Thanks JFP for the verification on that...

In regard Free Thinker's problem with the distorion..

I've posted many times on the Keyboard Forums regarding some of Rolands older stage pianos having distortion and sound control problems for live, every day gigging. Thier use at home and recording or casual gigs etc is a different story. In the course of a 2 gig day my original RD700 (Or even the FP4) could sound good on one gig and horrible on the next. Yamaha's really hold up better in varied sonic environments for live use (at least for me and the music I was playing then). When they introduced the SN sample set and even before with the original FP4/7 I told Dave Ferris the new Rolands were really pretty good, a step up from the original RD700. It's a shame the distortion problems still plague their instruments to some degree regardless if it's notes or their overall leveling problem. When they are set up correctly, and can be heard in an optimum space sonically, I think most people, players and audiences really like the sound. SN is just such a nice sample set and that new action is really wonderful. May sell my FP4 and some other gear and upgrade to an FP80... I'm not letting go of my CP50 though!


Edited by legatoboy (04/20/13 09:09 AM)
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#2067527 - 04/20/13 09:14 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
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Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
I'm still not sure where the 'distortion' is coming from and what kind of distortion he means. If you take many variables out of the equation, it might even turn out to be some acoustical / material resonance of an object in the room itself. Even a keyboard stand might 'ring' at certain notes and in a certain position. So taking the Roland of the stand, putting it in another room and trying again would be a good starting point to get to the bottom of this.

Little ego-trip thread hi-jack why I'm especially interested:
I hope it turns out to be a problem that has nothing to do with the FP-80 itself; had my finger on a good deal on the FP and haven' totally scratched it from my list yet. Put it on hold after your first post about the distortion. Actually my first choice is still the VPC1 , but until now it seems totally impossible to get my hands on one in my own region (won't order from abroad). In the meantime the Roland FP-80 came around and was offered for a decent price; so I started to doubt again, especially since I can get it from a shop in my town with good service. The VPC1 has the better keybed, and with a good virtual piano gives the best AP experience, period ! But also weighs a lot more and misses the internal sounds and speakers for just-in-case situations, or when you DON'T want to have a laptop nearby. Let's see where this ends...

Fingers crossed it's the room , or something in the room that is triggered into some kind of resonance / distortion when playing certain notes. Or indeed even the stand the Roland is put upon. If not - and it's indeed obvious a speaker distortion or cabinet distortion of some kind, it could still be just your unit (cross-check with another FP in the store!). When it turns out that all FP's have this, then Roland has to check the FP series before the next production run on a possible design issue - so that following batches won't have this problem. For you I hope it's an external factor , so you can keep the FP-80 and enjoy it !

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#2067535 - 04/20/13 09:23 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
legatoboy Offline
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Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 65
Loc: Huntington,LI New York
jfp,

With a new instrument release it's always best to let some time go by and hear the consensus about problems/issues from multiple people's response after they hit the street. I may just do that.!
lb


Edited by legatoboy (04/20/13 09:23 AM)
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#2067540 - 04/20/13 09:35 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
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Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
I had the impression Roland was not particularly know for start-up problems with their products. And the FP-80 doesn't seem to be entirely new: more an evolution of the FP7F. In short I wouldn't expect much problems and still don't . Chances are its exemplary or something else...


Edited by JFP (04/20/13 09:36 AM)

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#2067602 - 04/20/13 12:42 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
free thinker Offline
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Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 31
The distortion sound is very similar to 'honkytonk piano'. It reminds me of an old upright I had with worn hammers and cracked soundboard. I will move the piano to another room when I get home. Thanks for the advice.

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#2067627 - 04/20/13 02:16 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
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Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Try with and without stand to make sure the stand isn't causing the resonance...(just to be more than sure)

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#2067665 - 04/20/13 03:32 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
free thinker Offline
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Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 31
I tried it in completely different room and no difference even witout stand. I got to thinking 'what if it's the keys themselves?' So I used the transpose function and this actually worked. If I moved the transpose settng all the way left then no more 'honkytonk' on any key. Even moving it just one notch made a difference. I moved dp to original location but won't be able to test it until sleepers wake up.

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#2067676 - 04/20/13 04:02 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Hookxs Offline
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Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 247
Loc: Czech Republic
Do you mean transpose or master tunning? Of you used transposee, then the "distortion" or "resonance" probably just moved several half steps up or down, right?
I think that the first and most important thing to determine is whether or not the distortions are recordable (straight to USB drive and/or from line-outs) or not.

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#2067684 - 04/20/13 04:21 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
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Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
I'm puzzled; I totally don't understand what kind of 'distortion' you are referring to. Honkytonk sounds like a problem with the DSP processing, but then it should be audible over headphone as well, which it is not.

1) You don't hear it over headphones
2) You don't hear it with the Roland turned is off (meaning it's not the mechanics of the keybed itself at these keys)
3) You don't hear it at those keys , when you transpose the sound a semitone up or down. Does the distortion than also move one semitone up or down ?
4) Can you listen very carefully where the distortion is coming from. I mean is it obviously a distorted sound coming from the speakers , or does it seem to be coming more from the DP cabinet (like a case resonance ; sometimes it helps then to put your hand on the cabinet at different positions and see if it disappears ).
5) Is it only with certain AP presets, or also with other sounds like EP at those same keys ?

Is it possible to record some passage that indicates the problem ? Or does it not appear on the recording when you record directly to USB (in fact bypassing the speakers). I hope you can provide us with an example - I find it hard to imagine what you're hearing at this point.

To go back at the beginning: you say you detect it at certain areas of the keyboard (d#3 and the 2 adjacent keys) ; do you mean that the sound over the speakers distorts when playing these keys, or that the distorted sound seems to be coming from underneath those physical keys (mechanical) ?

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#2067688 - 04/20/13 04:26 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Hookxs]
free thinker Offline
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Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 31
When I moved the transpose indicator all the way left then the irritating sound completely disappeared off the keybed. However if I moved it a notch then the sound moved one or two keys as well. Since there are sleepers in the house I will have to wait to get more definitive results.
I'm thinking (maybe over-thinking)that since the "sound" occurs in a few keys between the lower register and the mid register then if you transpose lower, you can't hear that sound because it is now in an area with rich and vibrant overtones that characterise the lower register.
btw What is master-tuning?


Edited by free thinker (04/20/13 04:27 PM)

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#2067696 - 04/20/13 04:40 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
free thinker Offline
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Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 31
The sound comes from the speakers and not from any cabinet vibration. I tried placing hands firmly on cabinet to see if this affects sound but nothing. The sound is there with all pianos but less with some pianos. Good idea to record and play back to see what happens. I'll keep you informed.

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#2067715 - 04/20/13 05:24 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
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Registered: 07/19/10
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Loc: The Netherlands
Well if you transpose , the usual thing that happens is that you play the exact same notes of the sound-enigine, but from other physical keys. So it would be logical that if you transpose one whole note down, the annoying sound will play one key down from the original key it occurred. Still with the same sound and pitch that is. A simple transpose doesn't normally shift the base notes independently from the overtones and resonances. Some instruments , like Kurzweil , have independent shifting as an extra feature - but then it's used as a special effect, not for a simple transpose.

In your case and when the sound shifts as expected up and down with the transpose function, that could mean two things:

1) It's simply part of the sound and sound engine and so fixed part of the sound character. But then it should also be audible in the same way over headphones.

2) This particular key, or key combination triggers a certain resonance effect and/or distortion in the amplifier or speaker system. This could be because it touches the natural resonance of one or more parts of the system , or because of a malfunctioning part in the signal chain that becomes more obvious if triggered by these particular frequencies. In both cases it's either a flaw , a bad design , or both. If it's a flaw it could be exemplary and you'd have to crosse check against other FP-80's. If its a bad design, that's worse - cause it would mean all FP-80's have this behavior. I wonder if that's the case; someone at Roland must certainly have noticed this at some stage (?!).

So:
- if your 100% sure the effects is not audible on headphones, you'd have to crosse check against other FP-80's to see if it's just your unit. If it IS only your unit - it's simply bad luck and you could exchange it for another that doesn't show this problem. If all FP-80's in the store show this behavior and it's quite obvious, then someone should contact Roland and make them aware of what's happening. They can't solve it if they don't know about it and the longer they get no feedback , the more units are produced with the same design flaw.

Still , for now I hope it's only your unit. That's bad enough already, but it means you can get it fixed by exchanging the instrument , forget about what happened and enjoy the FP-80 ;-)


Edited by JFP (04/20/13 05:27 PM)

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#2067941 - 04/21/13 10:04 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
free thinker Offline
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Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 31
I'm sure I never heard the distortion on earphones. Yet this is not a black/white issue. There were times, brief times though, when I could not here that sound. Even last night after returning the DP to it's original location, I could not produce that sound. This is baffling. So now it looks OK. (maybe using the transpose function had something to do with it) But I have the feeling that it will return. In the store I did hear that sound on the fp-4f and the 300nx? and also on the fp 7f but not consistently. I think some weird phenomenon is at play here. Something sets it off.

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#2068010 - 04/21/13 12:35 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: free thinker]
Cmin Offline
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Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Gee, this is really getting confusing.
Tomorrow I hope to shed some light on all of this. I'm awaiting a (great) delivery smile
I'll be sure to give it a good work through and give you the results. I will also post to the DPBSD Project.
Truly can not wait....
_________________________
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Lenny

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#2068045 - 04/21/13 01:52 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
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Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Weird. Hope your FP-80 is flawless Cmin. I had one on order and cancelled it after free thinker's first remarks. I first wanted to wait for more information on the phenomenon he experienced. If it's all OK in the end and yours is good as well, I wonder if I should have let my order go through. There you see how much influence a forum can have on purchase decisions ! So be careful with what you post ; I may have been a bit too critical myself as well in the past, but you learn from your mistakes. I had some issues , that we're partly an exemplary fault indeed , but also simply part of the way the product was designed and was supposed to work. I think in general it's best to first work out all the details yourself and in collaboration with the shop and manufacturer and THEN post your results, if they are important enough to share with the world. Curious to your review of the FP-80 and if you have a similar experience as free thinker and what you think of the rest of the FP. My list of interest again:

1) Any improvement in SN AP sound as far as you can judge over the previous series ?
2) Is the keybed still thumpy as we know from the PHA_III based keys untill now, or has some slight alteration softened the landing (you would think Roland might have taken notice by now ?)
3) How are the speakers ; really immersive 3D "projection" sound as the marketeers would like us to believe , or simply good speakers ;-)

Cheers, J

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#2068062 - 04/21/13 02:21 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
free thinker Offline
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Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 31
I could not detect any improvement of sn sound over the fp-7f.
Keyboard still thumpy but not anymore than my acoustic piano, I guess I'm used to the thumps.
I think the speakers are good but not great.In the demo it sounds fantastic but somehow they have optimized that feature.
I have not played piano since yesterday and as i said it is too early too tell if the improvement is permanent.

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#2068065 - 04/21/13 02:27 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Lelax Offline
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Registered: 03/29/12
Posts: 41
NAMM holds the big show each January for the newest in digital music.
Interesting that the acronym NAMM has multiple meanings:

NAMM International Music Products Association
NAMM National Association of Music Merchants
NAMM National Association of Memorial Masons (est. 1907; Warwickshire, England, UK)
NAMM National Association of Music Manufacturers
NAMM National Association for Moisture Management (St. Petersburg, FL)
NAMM National Association of Mirror Manufacturers

Best writing practice is to dump the NAMM or at least be specific, besides the fact that Acronyms are Dumb.

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#2068113 - 04/21/13 04:08 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Cmin Offline
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Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
WAYTA?
_________________________
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Lenny

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#2068123 - 04/21/13 04:22 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
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Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Bot ?

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#2068158 - 04/21/13 05:26 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Lelax]
EssBrace Offline
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Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2405
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: Lelax
Best writing practice is to dump the NAMM or at least be specific, besides the fact that Acronyms are Dumb.


Smoke another one!
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#2068171 - 04/21/13 05:54 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Marko in Boston Offline
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Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 902
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
I think Lelax took a mental ExLax
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2068204 - 04/21/13 07:46 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Lelax Offline
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Registered: 03/29/12
Posts: 41
We are hoping for better, but prepared for bitter disappointment and sadness.

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#2068356 - 04/22/13 12:54 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Cmin Offline
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Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Dear Lelax,
when we talk about NAMM, you can be sure it's not going to be about the National Association of Mirror Manufacturers or even the National Association for Moisture Management.

ok, let's get back to the topic and keep this thread on topic - and that is the FP-80 and FP-50 (No, I will not spell them out).
_________________________
Cheers,
Lenny

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FP-80, HP 3000s, synths, guitars, mics, MBP, interfaces, Voicelive 2, ableton, Pianoteq, nubert A-200 active monitors

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#2068590 - 04/22/13 11:00 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Cmin Offline
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Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
So, it arrived about 2 hours ago. Here are my first impressions:

+Nice.
+Loud! (definitely a lot louder and clearer than the FP-7F)
+372 Sounds (Tones)
+True SN Concert Piano
+Drawbar Organs
+Great E-pianos and organs

-No Studio Grand
-E-Pianos are not SN adjustable
-There are some impurities in the Concert piano (Here and there... but not in Free Thinkers range) F4, F#4, depending on loudness. Over speakers and Headphones.
-No open/closed lid
-No audio over USB cable to computer (only MIDI)
-Mini-stereo-jack input

Key thumping??? Well it's not that bad. I guess it's quite normal considering the weighted keys. I couldn't tell you if the key action is different to the FP-7F, considering I only played it once at the store.

...These are just my first findings and impressions. I will keep you updated (as I have luckily the next couple of days off).
All in all I am very happy with this instrument and I am sure it will fulfill my needs for the years to come.
So long for now, gotta get busy with them keys....


Edited by Cmin (04/22/13 11:35 AM)
_________________________
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Lenny

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#2068630 - 04/22/13 12:06 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Hookxs Offline
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Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 247
Loc: Czech Republic
Congrats! It's good to hear that you are happy with the piano. Would you mind posting some recording (of solo piano) for our curiosity? Thanks:-)

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#2068724 - 04/22/13 03:09 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
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Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
"-There are some impurities in the Concert piano (Here and there... but not in Free Thinkers range) F4, F#4, depending on loudness. Over speakers and Headphones."

Can you explain a bit more about what exactly you mean by 'impurities' and in how far they are noticeable or even annoying while you play ? Is it only in the first concert grand preset or also in other presets (that may be based on the same base SN AP sample material). I assume you mean that this impurity is part of the SN sound itself and not some resonance or distortion in the cabinet / speaker system ?

All in all , how would you describe the feeling when you play ; do you have the idea that you're really 'into' the sound and can articulate well and that there's a good connection between the action and the sound you produce ? I'm not looking for the last bit of authenticity in the AP sound, but wonder if the playability is a good representation of what you would experience when playing an acoustic. (Yes, I know it's a bad comparison, because the sound comes from speakers etc, but something can be said about how well it works as a stand-in for an acoustic ?)

Last thing: you say the speakers are loud. Roland has introduced the two way systems as a "revolutionary" sound projection system. Expensive word to describe it that way ;-) Anyway , do you have the feeling you're immersed a bit in the sound it produces, or is it all marketing bla bla and the speakers sound OK, but that's it ? (Do they produce enough base / bottom ?)

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#2068908 - 04/22/13 09:18 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
free thinker Offline
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Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 31
cmin: "no audio over USB cable..."

I know you can record audio as .wav to USB I don' see why you can't record to computer via USB

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#2068936 - 04/22/13 10:01 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
xorbe Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/12
Posts: 573
Loc: Mt View, CA
Originally Posted By: JFP
Can you explain a bit more about what exactly you mean by 'impurities' and in how far they are noticeable or even annoying while you play ?

If it's like RD-700NX, then at certain mid-velocities, there is a slight metallic twang. I know I've praised Studio Grand up and down, but I've dialed in a Concert Grand edit that's really growing on me -- it feels more dynamic than Studio Grand.

Originally Posted By: free thinker
cmin: "no audio over USB cable..."

I know you can record audio as .wav to USB I don' see why you can't record to computer via USB

I suspect that requires a custom Windows driver, as it's probably not part of the universal midi-over-USB spec. It certainly could be done if they wanted too -- it's a very low bandwidth activity.

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#2069101 - 04/23/13 03:48 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: free thinker]
Cmin Offline
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Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Originally Posted By: free thinker
cmin: "no audio over USB cable..."

I know you can record audio as .wav to USB I don' see why you can't record to computer via USB


Yes, I find this a pity. I want to record to my DAW staying on the digital level. That means I have to either use a USB stick with audio (44.1kHz, 16 bit) then import it to my computer, which is not very professional. Or, go analog out. Meaning, the signal would be converted from D/A then again A/D - also not very professional. Of course, there is the possibility to buy an iPhone or iPad (which I am NOT going to do) and use the wireless Wifi app from Roland - also not very professional.
It would be so easy to have the signal going out through the USB cable - but, no.
Maybe there will be an update for that.
Irony: The update would most likely be the FP-80F for ONLY 1800,- euro.

Today I will still post some audio examples of the Concert Piano.

C U
_________________________
Cheers,
Lenny

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FP-80, HP 3000s, synths, guitars, mics, MBP, interfaces, Voicelive 2, ableton, Pianoteq, nubert A-200 active monitors

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#2069113 - 04/23/13 04:30 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
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Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Well I always found recording to USB stick and putting it in my Mac not such a big deal. It works simple and quick. Wouldn't be a deal-breaker. Unless what you mean is that you want to record FP80 sounds into a sequencer arrangement; in which case it would have been nice to have a digital signal path or even better have the FP act as a software plug-in in your DAW. Some manufacturers DO offer that functionality for their workstations and synths. I think DP's have another purpose in their view and don't need such sophisticated features or DAW integration.

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#2069115 - 04/23/13 04:39 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
Cmin Offline
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Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Originally Posted By: JFP
Can you explain a bit more about what exactly you mean by 'impurities' and in how far they are noticeable or even annoying while you play ? Is it only in the first concert grand preset or also in other presets (that may be based on the same base SN AP sample material). I assume you mean that this impurity is part of the SN sound itself and not some resonance or distortion in the cabinet / speaker system ?


I noticed a slight high pitched ring or maybe synthetic noise in some areas when played at certain velocities. For me it is not bad - I can live with it. It is in the sound itself definitely (I heard it over both the speakers and headphones). I messed around with the SN parameters and believe it might have been one of those that caused it (some resonance) because it seemed to be better after that.
To be honest, I didn't really use much of the other piano sounds because they are not worth the effort frown

Originally Posted By: JFP
All in all , how would you describe the feeling when you play ; do you have the idea that you're really 'into' the sound and can articulate well and that there's a good connection between the action and the sound you produce ? I'm not looking for the last bit of authenticity in the AP sound, but wonder if the playability is a good representation of what you would experience when playing an acoustic. (Yes, I know it's a bad comparison, because the sound comes from speakers etc, but something can be said about how well it works as a stand-in for an acoustic ?)


IMHO I really like the feel. And yes, I think after getting a little used to it, it won't be a problem to get 'into' the sound and 'articulate' my playing. A DP (IMHO) will never be as authentic as an AP - but for what it is, it's great.

Originally Posted By: JFP
Last thing: you say the speakers are loud. Roland has introduced the two way systems as a "revolutionary" sound projection system. Expensive word to describe it that way ;-) Anyway , do you have the feeling you're immersed a bit in the sound it produces, or is it all marketing bla bla and the speakers sound OK, but that's it ? (Do they produce enough base / bottom ?)


Being a sound engineer for the past 25+ years.....
Roland did put some thought in their new 'Acoustic Projection'. It is very pleasant for what it is. Having such 'small' speakers, it does engulf the player into his/her instrument. The bass sounds are pretty full (sure, you don't have a sub woofer) and the highs are very clear sounding. Of course, one can not compare to high-end monitors - but then again, there is no hassle with all the schlepping, cabling, stands.... The sound emits directly from the instrument and that is the way it is supposed to be, I find. I like to feel the vibrations at my finger tips smile

BUT.... forget that with the microphone input. What a gimmick. If you are a pianist who sings at the same time (like me) look for other possibilities. There is an EQ on board, but it affects the piano sound as well at the same time. If you want to have reverb ("ambience") on the voice but not on the piano - no way (EDIT: Yes, ok, it does work). The other way is no problem, no reverb on voice, but on piano. The harmony effect is funny - and that's about it.
I will have to go the conventional/old way and do my voice processing outside of the keyboard and input it through the mini jack input.
Oh, I almost forgot: that mini jack does not have a separate volume control.

Hope that answers some of your questions JFP.


Edited by Cmin (01/17/14 05:12 AM)
_________________________
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Lenny

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FP-80, HP 3000s, synths, guitars, mics, MBP, interfaces, Voicelive 2, ableton, Pianoteq, nubert A-200 active monitors

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#2069123 - 04/23/13 05:20 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
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Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
"that mini jack does not have a separate volume control."

I think hardly any DP with an audio input has that (exception defines the rule). Also it's probably a clean input line to the amp/speaker system is it ? I mean, without going though the 'correcting' EQ that is part of the signal patch when playing internal sounds. Without this EQ the sound is not optimized for the totally un-flat response a speaker in cabinet design has and any music you play over it sounds unbalanced and weird. True ? Or DOES Roland put the input channel before this EQ , I wonder...

Yeh...microphone. Couldn't care less. Rather had some more routing options on the Roland and/or 256 polyphony ; ditch the gimmicks and use the saved-up resources for enhancements where it really matters.

BTW - do you mean that apart from the first Concert Grand preset , the other presets are rubbish ? Like Ballade, Bright and Dreamy ? And the EP's; wow good are they ? There are Tine / Reed and FM in the list. Assume they are all SN. Are they really good ?

Happy the speakers are OK and also that the impurity is not a real 'distortion' of some kind, but more part of the sound character and can even be dampened somewhat by playing with the SN parameters. All-in-all ; the Roland is a keeper and worth the money ? (hard to tell - cause as an owner you always feel tempted to justify your purchase no matter what, but anyway).

Oh.. and external monitors; I know what you mean, I've always used some HQ studio monitors, but never had the feeling I was digging into the instruments cause there is always some separation in such a setup between the instrument and perceived sound source. When the speakers are build-in and it's cleverly done, you have more of the impression sound + instrument is one. Especially when you have some tactile feedback as well. Never mind the quality of the speakers is not on par with any studio monitor set.

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#2069156 - 04/23/13 07:13 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
thomsurf Offline
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Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 153
Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
Put my hands on an FP-50 yesterday. Not a big variety of AP sounds but the Concert sounded descent over the somewhat small speakers. To my surprise the action felt better and less noisy than on my own RD300-NX, even though they share the same keybed. I suppose the different cabinets has an effect on key beheaviour.
A nice little DP it is.
_________________________
Roland RD800, JBL PRX612M.

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#2069160 - 04/23/13 07:20 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
Cmin Offline
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Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Yes, the input is BEFORE EQ!!! frown That means, everything (the FP-80, the Mic input and even the line input) go through the internal EQ. How frustrating.
Furthermore, the 'Mic Harmony' is also in the line input - not only Mic input (the way it should be). So theoretically, if one is playing to let's say to an MP3, phone, or whatever going into the FP-80 and you have a mic in the mic input and you want to use the 'Harmony' effect, everything except the FP-80 sound will be 'harmonized'. grrrr.
Another thing I noticed: If 'Local control' is off (because I want to use external sounds; such as plugins from a computer) the damper release of the FP-80 is still there, audible. You have to move to a different sound internally that doesn't use the damper release in order for it to work correctly.

JFP: "do you mean that apart from the first Concert Grand preset , the other presets are rubbish ? Like Ballade, Bright and Dreamy ? And the EP's; wow good are they ? There are Tine / Reed and FM in the list. Assume they are all SN. Are they really good ?"
No the other sounds are not rubbish. But they are just, how should I say..., nothing special. Out of the 14 sounds in the Pianos, maybe 6-7 are useable. I don't need Piano with E-Piano, or Piano with Strings. If I need them I just layer them myself.

Just to make things a bit clearer to everyone. Here is
my live setup.

And here is the back of the FP-80.


Edited by Cmin (04/23/13 07:48 AM)
_________________________
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Lenny

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#2069163 - 04/23/13 07:30 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
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Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
So the signal routing sucks...if your interested in using the external inputs. For pure piano pleasure it doesn't matter. By the way - I don't mean the use adjustable EQ m but an 'invisible' fixed internal EQ stage that is in between sound engine and speakers on a DP , to compensate for the non-flat frequency response of the (uncorrected) sound system. This EQ is of course not between engine and headphones. And often not available for the external input.

It's easy to hear. Compare a piece of music played from an USB stick over the internal speakers and the same piece over a playback device connected to the external audio input. If they sound totally different (usually the USB version correct and the input version does not) , then the correcting EQ is not used for the audio input. If they sound the same (at the same level), than the EQ is indeed switched between audio input and amp/speaker system as well.

Nice setup by the way. I understand now you do care about the mic and audio in and intended to use that in practice. Shame it has such basic , flawed signal routing.

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#2069212 - 04/23/13 09:09 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
free thinker Offline
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Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 31
hi JFP, I don't see why you're still interested in this DP when it has probably nothing you like! Is it that the other brands out there are worse? Or too expensive.
I just use mine for pleasure. Mysteriously the offending noise has diminished enough that I enjoy playing via onboard speakers as well as via headphones which on my unit (unlike cmin) do not produce the offending sound (not yet anyway). My fp 7f had 2 areas of the keyboard with noise and was produced on headphones too. I think it' a gamble buying the Rolands as far as noise is concerned and a travesty as far as the electronic routing and software is concerned. I'm not trying to dissuade you from this piano but if you're a demanding musician (which you give the impression) I would recommend another piano if there is one out there.

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#2069214 - 04/23/13 09:14 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Cmin Offline
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Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Hi all!

Here are some WAV recordings I made directly to USB stick demonstrating the FP-80. Yes, they are a bit quiet - just crank up your speakers.

Simple melody: (Sorry, haven't been practicing for a while)
Wave 1 - Gee Dee

Chromatic demonstration: From low to high. mf & mp
Chromatic demo

Here is that problematic F4 on my DP:
Concert Piano F4

Cheers
_________________________
Cheers,
Lenny

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FP-80, HP 3000s, synths, guitars, mics, MBP, interfaces, Voicelive 2, ableton, Pianoteq, nubert A-200 active monitors

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#2069222 - 04/23/13 09:27 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3279
Originally Posted By: Cmin
It would be so easy to have the signal going out through the USB cable - but, no.
Maybe there will be an update for that.

I think xorbe has it right. Recording to a USB stick, where the piano is the host, is much simpler than sending audio over USB to the computer, where the piano is the slave (the computer is the host), and it would require writing a custom driver for Windows (and Mac), and some commitment to keeping those drivers functional through future Windows/Mac OS updates at least through the sales life of the piano. Doing this might also interfere with the ability of the piano to behave as a "class compliant" device which could create its own complications.

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#2069223 - 04/23/13 09:31 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: anotherscott]
Cmin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Scott: I meant it as a type of Sound-Interface to be able to record directly to a DAW over USB cable. A lot of synths and keyboards have that function.
_________________________
Cheers,
Lenny

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FP-80, HP 3000s, synths, guitars, mics, MBP, interfaces, Voicelive 2, ableton, Pianoteq, nubert A-200 active monitors

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#2069226 - 04/23/13 09:38 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
scorpio Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 524
Loc: Connecticut, USA
Originally Posted By: Cmin
Simple melody: (Sorry, haven't been practicing for a while)
Wave 1 - Gee Dee


Oh heck that sounds great!
_________________________
Kawai MP11 :: JBL LSR305 :: Focusrite 2i4 :: Pianoteq Standard

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#2069235 - 04/23/13 09:52 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: free thinker]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: free thinker
hi JFP, I don't see why you're still interested in this DP when it has probably nothing you like! Is it that the other brands out there are worse? Or too expensive.


Nope - there are certainly things that I like about Roland (SN AP / connection between touch and sound) and in fact the alternatives in my list are less expensive. They are simply not available in my region, whereas the Roland I can pick up right away for an interesting price.

Also I'm just trying to determine how much this DP is different from my ES7 in terms of features (audio-input / signal routing / speakers) , touch and sound. I know how the PHA-III plays , until now I didn't know how the audio-input performed and if it is usable for instance to route your laptop output through the speakers to play a software instrument in a decent way. Since you and Cmin are the first ones who own the FP , I just fired away the questions I liked to see ticked off. Several of them are clear now:

1) There seems to be no structural factory fault that caused the 'distortion' you first mentioned in the thread. More a sound character thing, that you may or may not like
2) Speakers are OK and a step up from the FP7 - no only marketing talk, but a real improvement
3) Keybed is roughly the same as before in terms of response and mechanical sound.
4) SN Grand lacks the lid simulation but added sound board simulation and sounds good overall. Most probably the processing 'slot' for lid simulation had to be sacrificed for the sound board processing. Whatever...
5) Mic input / audio input is sort of half baked. But personally I don't care about the Mic input. Decent audio-In would be welcome..
6) SN EP's are nice (?) but lack editable parameters.

All in all it seems an attractive piano with good AP sound , with a few caveats if you're really interested in using the Mic input , effects and such. Don't know if anyone here would buy it for the arranger, or has tested it yet - personally I don't care - so I don't know if thats a good feature too. If you don't use or need the additional features, it's a bit expensive for pure piano practice and play , but other than that is looks good so far. Judging from the Cmin sound examples above it sounds good.

Note: the F4 "problem" is not so bad as I expected form your remarks. In solo notes it's there, but I guess in chords or playing, it's not so obvious , right ? The sustain phase sounds a bit like an old fashioned ugly and far too short looped sustain of a high note on an older rompler. "ponk , hijaaaaaa, ponk hijaaaaaaaa" ;-) Thanks for all your input Cmin and Free Thinker !!

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#2069253 - 04/23/13 10:30 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3279
Originally Posted By: Cmin
Scott: I meant it as a type of Sound-Interface to be able to record directly to a DAW over USB cable. A lot of synths and keyboards have that function.

But can they do this without installing custom drivers on your Mac or PC? You're talking about recording audio, not MIDI, right? The only board I have that does this is Yamaha, and it requires custom drivers (and the Yamaha is not class compliant).

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#2069263 - 04/23/13 10:56 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: anotherscott]
Cmin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Yes, I'm talking about audio. Midi already passes through. Sure, you'd probably need a driver. Having been using both Mac and PC, most likely Mac wouldn't need a driver. But, what ever it is - they should've made it possible. I mean, if Midi already goes through then audio should have too.

aka this


Edited by Cmin (04/23/13 10:59 AM)
_________________________
Cheers,
Lenny

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FP-80, HP 3000s, synths, guitars, mics, MBP, interfaces, Voicelive 2, ableton, Pianoteq, nubert A-200 active monitors

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#2069470 - 04/23/13 05:06 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Hookxs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 247
Loc: Czech Republic
Very nice demo, thank you!:-)

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#2069739 - 04/24/13 03:44 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Cmin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Thank you, my pleasure.
_________________________
Cheers,
Lenny

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FP-80, HP 3000s, synths, guitars, mics, MBP, interfaces, Voicelive 2, ableton, Pianoteq, nubert A-200 active monitors

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#2069750 - 04/24/13 04:05 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
AntonA Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/23/13
Posts: 1
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Cmin
Simple melody: (Sorry, haven't been practicing for a while)
Wave 1 - Gee Dee


That sounds wonderful!

I don't recognize the reference "Gee Dee" - would you mind sharing what it is that you are playing there?

And thank you for the recordings. Made me go out to a local shop that had an FP-80 and listen to it there, too, and I have to say I am sold. Have been looking into a DP that can be moved around for a little while and the FP-80 has finally put an end to that search. smile

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#2069780 - 04/24/13 06:23 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: AntonA]
Cmin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Originally Posted By: AntonA
Originally Posted By: Cmin
Simple melody: (Sorry, haven't been practicing for a while)
Wave 1 - Gee Dee


That sounds wonderful!

I don't recognize the reference "Gee Dee" - would you mind sharing what it is that you are playing there?

And thank you for the recordings. Made me go out to a local shop that had an FP-80 and listen to it there, too, and I have to say I am sold. Have been looking into a DP that can be moved around for a little while and the FP-80 has finally put an end to that search. smile


Thanks a lot. It's just a piece I wrote a while back. (I only play my own stuff) smile
You are making the right choice - you'll be very happy with the FP-80.
_________________________
Cheers,
Lenny

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FP-80, HP 3000s, synths, guitars, mics, MBP, interfaces, Voicelive 2, ableton, Pianoteq, nubert A-200 active monitors

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#2069783 - 04/24/13 06:28 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: AntonA]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: AntonA
Have been looking into a DP that can be moved around for a little while and the FP-80 has finally put an end to that search. smile


Just out of curiosity, but have you been checking out some other stage models too , recently or in the past ? Like Yamaha's, Roland Fp7F, FP-50, Kawai ES7, Casio Px-series ?

If so , what made you choose the FP-80 over the others.

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#2070182 - 04/24/13 07:14 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Marko in Boston Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 902
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
I was cruising around GC website because they are having 48 hour 12% off sale and saw this unfavorable review. I find it a bit unfair review considering it's more of a comparison than a review from an unsatisfied customer w/ big expectations.

For what it's worth... http://www.guitarcenter.com/Roland-FP-80-Digital-Piano-109123802-i3068702.gc#customer-reviews






Edited by Marko in Boston (04/24/13 07:20 PM)
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2070185 - 04/24/13 07:26 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Marko in Boston]
Glassy Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/24/13
Posts: 8
For the record, that Guitar Center discount doesn't apply to Roland, according to their coupon exclusions page. Oh well.

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#2070192 - 04/24/13 07:41 PM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Glassy]
Marko in Boston Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 902
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Not entirely true. The guy at GC (in Boston) said they put almost every brand up there as an exclusion to basically cover their butt for liability from manufacturer. However, if you go in the store they will honor 12% on almost everything in stock in the store. I suggest you call GC to make sure they will honor their coupons/discounts before you buy.
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2070411 - 04/25/13 03:01 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Marko in Boston]
Cmin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Here is something interesting for those who complain about the the 'whining' sound. (Freethinker, JFP.....)

In the FP-80 manual (page 54), Troubleshooting:

"A "whining" noise is heard
If you hear this in headphones:
Some brilliant and sharply defined piano sounds contain significant high-frequency components, which may sound like a metallic resonance has been added. This is due to the faithful simulation of a piano's actual characteristics, and does not indicate a malfunction.

You can adjust this resonance by editing the following settings.
-Duplex Scale setting
-String Resonance setting
-Ambience Depth setting

If you don't hear this in headphones:
Some other reason may be responsible (e.g., resonance in the FP-80 itself). Please contact your dealer or Roland Service Center."

...So Roland is very well aware of the 'problem'. (Which it is not).
As I have stated before, I too got rid of some abnormalities using the Piano Designer.
_________________________
Cheers,
Lenny

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FP-80, HP 3000s, synths, guitars, mics, MBP, interfaces, Voicelive 2, ableton, Pianoteq, nubert A-200 active monitors

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#2070416 - 04/25/13 03:30 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Cmin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Oh... and here is what Roland writes about the onboard "Acoustic Projection" speaker system:

Roland FP-80 Manual, page 26 (SMF and audio recording):

"....Thanks to its multiple number of speakers, each of which can be used to play a different portion of the overall sound, the FP-80 is capable of producing piano sounds that possess great depth and three-dimensional presence (Acoustic Projection).
When playing from the keyboard or from SMF data, the FP-80 applies an acoustic projection effect that makes the sound more natural. This effect is not used with audio recordings, as they are already recorded in stereo (using two channels)."

I am really starting to like the speaker system on the FP-80. It does 'engulf' the player, simulating depth and width quite realistically. One can notice this 'effect' not only with the ambience, but also when adjusting the Cabinet Resonance.

Also, I use that microphone input (in order to use the onboard speakers and the harmony effect) going out of my mixer with a usable processed microphone signal.
_________________________
Cheers,
Lenny

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FP-80, HP 3000s, synths, guitars, mics, MBP, interfaces, Voicelive 2, ableton, Pianoteq, nubert A-200 active monitors

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#2070428 - 04/25/13 04:40 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Marko in Boston Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 902
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Hi Cmin, Thanks. Glad to see someone has the manual. This is the one thing we have all been trying to get our hands on prior to purchase. Not sure why Roland has not posted it for download yet.

When you said "I am really starting to like the speaker system on the FP-80." Do you mean that you did not care for it at first and it grew on you? Just looking for some further detail. That's a feature I am very interested in.


Edited by Marko in Boston (04/25/13 04:45 AM)
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2070432 - 04/25/13 04:59 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Marko in Boston]
Cmin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston
When you said "I am really starting to like the speaker system on the FP-80." Do you mean that you did not care for it at first and it grew on you?


Hi Marko,
as always I'm a bit skeptical at first. No, I do really like it. Compared to the FP-7F (as I recall) it is louder, clearer and more spacious. It was a slight down turn for me on the FP-7F.
If you have the possibility, try it for yourself.


Edited by Cmin (04/25/13 05:00 AM)
_________________________
Cheers,
Lenny

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FP-80, HP 3000s, synths, guitars, mics, MBP, interfaces, Voicelive 2, ableton, Pianoteq, nubert A-200 active monitors

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#2070435 - 04/25/13 05:09 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
"This is due to the faithful simulation of a piano's actual characteristics, and does not indicate a malfunction."

Tried some acoustics lately and for instance on an upright Schimmel there was a metallic ring, almost artificial , on some mid high and high notes. Some more than others. The whole unit (metallic strings, soundboard , everything) resonates and creates overtones and sometimes these almost weird high pitched sounds. Pedaling had a great influence on the occurrence of those frequencies. All in all , I think when you start to look for certain characteristics you'll find them in almost any instrument . These SN pitched metallic frequencies many people complain about may be part or the original piano samples (and thus part of the source piano) or the processing or both (!) . But I wanted to emphasize now that I tried some 'real' piano's that it was possible to hear and reproduce some similar ringing sounds and pretty artificial sounding effects as well. Had been too long since I played and acoustic; perhaps we're so used to digitals that we forgot what broad sound spectrum an mechanical instrument can produce and blame the DP if it shows some of those unexpected frequency combinations as well. Only problem could be that a digital instrument will always exactly produce the same 'problematic' by-sounds with a certain playing style, whereas an acoustic is more organic , meaning never the exact (!) same sound twice. This repetition is what can/will become annoying.

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#2070444 - 04/25/13 05:23 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: JFP]
Cmin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
@ JFP: I guess you're right. The Steinway and Bechstein I play has a lot more "impurities" than my FP-80. That's what makes it real and alive.

Yesterday I turned off all the possible SN parameters, just to see how it sounds and play around with it a bit. The sound was still quite usable (it sounded a little like my old DP), but somehow 'lifeless'.

I think a lot are bickering at a very high level about the sound and feeling. These are DP's - and I must say it sounds and feels better than a lot AP's out there. Sometimes maybe even too good. wink


Edited by Cmin (04/25/13 05:24 AM)
_________________________
Cheers,
Lenny

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FP-80, HP 3000s, synths, guitars, mics, MBP, interfaces, Voicelive 2, ableton, Pianoteq, nubert A-200 active monitors

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#2070565 - 04/25/13 10:59 AM Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! [Re: Cmin]
Hookxs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 247
Loc: Czech Republic

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