Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!!

Are these keybeds and actions actually the same, I've heard they are? At the Roland site they are described differently:

FP-80
Digital Piano
Keyboard 88 keys (Ivory Feel-S Keyboard with Escapement)
RD-700NX Version 2
Keyboard 88 keys (PHA III Ivory Feel Keyboard with Escapement)

I've played the 700NX and really 'got it' in terms of the action 2nd time I went back and tried playing one at Sam Ash. It Felt and responeded really well. Are both these actions 3 sensor?

lb

Technically they are the same. RD has some fake wooden look at the sides to it due to different material used (two layers), but structural and functional they are the same. So if you like the RD keys, the FP won't disappoint you in terms of action.

Thanks JFP for the verification on that...

In regard Free Thinker's problem with the distorion..

I've posted many times on the Keyboard Forums regarding some of Rolands older stage pianos having distortion and sound control problems for live, every day gigging. Thier use at home and recording or casual gigs etc is a different story. In the course of a 2 gig day my original RD700 (Or even the FP4) could sound good on one gig and horrible on the next. Yamaha's really hold up better in varied sonic environments for live use (at least for me and the music I was playing then). When they introduced the SN sample set and even before with the original FP4/7 I told Dave Ferris the new Rolands were really pretty good, a step up from the original RD700. It's a shame the distortion problems still plague their instruments to some degree regardless if it's notes or their overall leveling problem. When they are set up correctly, and can be heard in an optimum space sonically, I think most people, players and audiences really like the sound. SN is just such a nice sample set and that new action is really wonderful. May sell my FP4 and some other gear and upgrade to an FP80... I'm not letting go of my CP50 though!

I'm still not sure where the 'distortion' is coming from and what kind of distortion he means. If you take many variables out of the equation, it might even turn out to be some acoustical / material resonance of an object in the room itself. Even a keyboard stand might 'ring' at certain notes and in a certain position. So taking the Roland of the stand, putting it in another room and trying again would be a good starting point to get to the bottom of this.

Little ego-trip thread hi-jack why I'm especially interested:
I hope it turns out to be a problem that has nothing to do with the FP-80 itself; had my finger on a good deal on the FP and haven' totally scratched it from my list yet. Put it on hold after your first post about the distortion. Actually my first choice is still the VPC1 , but until now it seems totally impossible to get my hands on one in my own region (won't order from abroad). In the meantime the Roland FP-80 came around and was offered for a decent price; so I started to doubt again, especially since I can get it from a shop in my town with good service. The VPC1 has the better keybed, and with a good virtual piano gives the best AP experience, period ! But also weighs a lot more and misses the internal sounds and speakers for just-in-case situations, or when you DON'T want to have a laptop nearby. Let's see where this ends...

Fingers crossed it's the room , or something in the room that is triggered into some kind of resonance / distortion when playing certain notes. Or indeed even the stand the Roland is put upon. If not - and it's indeed obvious a speaker distortion or cabinet distortion of some kind, it could still be just your unit (cross-check with another FP in the store!). When it turns out that all FP's have this, then Roland has to check the FP series before the next production run on a possible design issue - so that following batches won't have this problem. For you I hope it's an external factor , so you can keep the FP-80 and enjoy it !

jfp,

With a new instrument release it's always best to let some time go by and hear the consensus about problems/issues from multiple people's response after they hit the street. I may just do that.!
lb

I had the impression Roland was not particularly know for start-up problems with their products. And the FP-80 doesn't seem to be entirely new: more an evolution of the FP7F. In short I wouldn't expect much problems and still don't . Chances are its exemplary or something else...

The distortion sound is very similar to 'honkytonk piano'. It reminds me of an old upright I had with worn hammers and cracked soundboard. I will move the piano to another room when I get home. Thanks for the advice.

Try with and without stand to make sure the stand isn't causing the resonance...(just to be more than sure)

I tried it in completely different room and no difference even witout stand. I got to thinking 'what if it's the keys themselves?' So I used the transpose function and this actually worked. If I moved the transpose settng all the way left then no more 'honkytonk' on any key. Even moving it just one notch made a difference. I moved dp to original location but won't be able to test it until sleepers wake up.

Do you mean transpose or master tunning? Of you used transposee, then the "distortion" or "resonance" probably just moved several half steps up or down, right?
I think that the first and most important thing to determine is whether or not the distortions are recordable (straight to USB drive and/or from line-outs) or not.

I'm puzzled; I totally don't understand what kind of 'distortion' you are referring to. Honkytonk sounds like a problem with the DSP processing, but then it should be audible over headphone as well, which it is not.

1) You don't hear it over headphones
2) You don't hear it with the Roland turned is off (meaning it's not the mechanics of the keybed itself at these keys)
3) You don't hear it at those keys , when you transpose the sound a semitone up or down. Does the distortion than also move one semitone up or down ?
4) Can you listen very carefully where the distortion is coming from. I mean is it obviously a distorted sound coming from the speakers , or does it seem to be coming more from the DP cabinet (like a case resonance ; sometimes it helps then to put your hand on the cabinet at different positions and see if it disappears ).
5) Is it only with certain AP presets, or also with other sounds like EP at those same keys ?

Is it possible to record some passage that indicates the problem ? Or does it not appear on the recording when you record directly to USB (in fact bypassing the speakers). I hope you can provide us with an example - I find it hard to imagine what you're hearing at this point.

To go back at the beginning: you say you detect it at certain areas of the keyboard (d#3 and the 2 adjacent keys) ; do you mean that the sound over the speakers distorts when playing these keys, or that the distorted sound seems to be coming from underneath those physical keys (mechanical) ?

When I moved the transpose indicator all the way left then the irritating sound completely disappeared off the keybed. However if I moved it a notch then the sound moved one or two keys as well. Since there are sleepers in the house I will have to wait to get more definitive results.
I'm thinking (maybe over-thinking)that since the "sound" occurs in a few keys between the lower register and the mid register then if you transpose lower, you can't hear that sound because it is now in an area with rich and vibrant overtones that characterise the lower register.
btw What is master-tuning?

The sound comes from the speakers and not from any cabinet vibration. I tried placing hands firmly on cabinet to see if this affects sound but nothing. The sound is there with all pianos but less with some pianos. Good idea to record and play back to see what happens. I'll keep you informed.

Well if you transpose , the usual thing that happens is that you play the exact same notes of the sound-enigine, but from other physical keys. So it would be logical that if you transpose one whole note down, the annoying sound will play one key down from the original key it occurred. Still with the same sound and pitch that is. A simple transpose doesn't normally shift the base notes independently from the overtones and resonances. Some instruments , like Kurzweil , have independent shifting as an extra feature - but then it's used as a special effect, not for a simple transpose.

In your case and when the sound shifts as expected up and down with the transpose function, that could mean two things:

1) It's simply part of the sound and sound engine and so fixed part of the sound character. But then it should also be audible in the same way over headphones.

2) This particular key, or key combination triggers a certain resonance effect and/or distortion in the amplifier or speaker system. This could be because it touches the natural resonance of one or more parts of the system , or because of a malfunctioning part in the signal chain that becomes more obvious if triggered by these particular frequencies. In both cases it's either a flaw , a bad design , or both. If it's a flaw it could be exemplary and you'd have to crosse check against other FP-80's. If its a bad design, that's worse - cause it would mean all FP-80's have this behavior. I wonder if that's the case; someone at Roland must certainly have noticed this at some stage (?!).

So:
- if your 100% sure the effects is not audible on headphones, you'd have to crosse check against other FP-80's to see if it's just your unit. If it IS only your unit - it's simply bad luck and you could exchange it for another that doesn't show this problem. If all FP-80's in the store show this behavior and it's quite obvious, then someone should contact Roland and make them aware of what's happening. They can't solve it if they don't know about it and the longer they get no feedback , the more units are produced with the same design flaw.

Still , for now I hope it's only your unit. That's bad enough already, but it means you can get it fixed by exchanging the instrument , forget about what happened and enjoy the FP-80 ;-)

I'm sure I never heard the distortion on earphones. Yet this is not a black/white issue. There were times, brief times though, when I could not here that sound. Even last night after returning the DP to it's original location, I could not produce that sound. This is baffling. So now it looks OK. (maybe using the transpose function had something to do with it) But I have the feeling that it will return. In the store I did hear that sound on the fp-4f and the 300nx? and also on the fp 7f but not consistently. I think some weird phenomenon is at play here. Something sets it off.

Gee, this is really getting confusing.
Tomorrow I hope to shed some light on all of this. I'm awaiting a (great) delivery
I'll be sure to give it a good work through and give you the results. I will also post to the DPBSD Project.
Truly can not wait....

Weird. Hope your FP-80 is flawless Cmin. I had one on order and cancelled it after free thinker's first remarks. I first wanted to wait for more information on the phenomenon he experienced. If it's all OK in the end and yours is good as well, I wonder if I should have let my order go through. There you see how much influence a forum can have on purchase decisions ! So be careful with what you post ; I may have been a bit too critical myself as well in the past, but you learn from your mistakes. I had some issues , that we're partly an exemplary fault indeed , but also simply part of the way the product was designed and was supposed to work. I think in general it's best to first work out all the details yourself and in collaboration with the shop and manufacturer and THEN post your results, if they are important enough to share with the world. Curious to your review of the FP-80 and if you have a similar experience as free thinker and what you think of the rest of the FP. My list of interest again:

1) Any improvement in SN AP sound as far as you can judge over the previous series ?
2) Is the keybed still thumpy as we know from the PHA_III based keys untill now, or has some slight alteration softened the landing (you would think Roland might have taken notice by now ?)
3) How are the speakers ; really immersive 3D "projection" sound as the marketeers would like us to believe , or simply good speakers ;-)

Cheers, J

I could not detect any improvement of sn sound over the fp-7f.
Keyboard still thumpy but not anymore than my acoustic piano, I guess I'm used to the thumps.
I think the speakers are good but not great.In the demo it sounds fantastic but somehow they have optimized that feature.
I have not played piano since yesterday and as i said it is too early too tell if the improvement is permanent.

NAMM holds the big show each January for the newest in digital music.
Interesting that the acronym NAMM has multiple meanings:

NAMM International Music Products Association
NAMM National Association of Music Merchants
NAMM National Association of Memorial Masons (est. 1907; Warwickshire, England, UK)
NAMM National Association of Music Manufacturers
NAMM National Association for Moisture Management (St. Petersburg, FL)
NAMM National Association of Mirror Manufacturers

Best writing practice is to dump the NAMM or at least be specific, besides the fact that Acronyms are Dumb.

WAYTA?