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#2065072 - 04/15/13 04:28 PM Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? [Re: Mike_Martin]
pianoworldanon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/03/13
Posts: 62
Originally Posted By: Mike_Martin
pianoworldanon,

First, I'm sorry you're having trouble with your AP-620. I'll do my best to help you get it resolved. Feel free to contact me in a Private Message here on the forum.

I just clicked on your links. 3 out of 5 go to empty pages, so I'm not sure specifically what you're trying to show but the links don't work. The WK-3000 you're linking to hasn't been made in over 10+ years.

The AP-620 has been quite a successful product. I've seen the same posts here on PianoWorld as on Amazon and the Casio forum about the "Please Wait" issue on some AP-620's. Considering how many AP-620's have been sold, I'm quite certain we don't have a problem but regardless we support the Celviano and Privia digital pianos with a 3 year warranty.

In addition to Casio's direct support numbers, I read the forums here as much as possible so if someone they can reach to directly to me in a private message. I sent you a message I hope to hear from you.


Hi Mike, I've fixed the links:
Here's the Costco reviews.. just search for "please wait"

two "please wait":
http://reviews.costco.ca/2070-en_ca/1000...ing&dir=asc

one "please wait":
http://reviews.costco.ca/2070-en_ca/1033...ing&dir=asc

LINKS FIXED:

http://www.justanswer.com/electronic-mus...orked-fine.html

http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/56-casio-ap-620-boot-up-problem/

http://www.fixya.com/support/t385410-re_casio_wk_3000_musical_keyboard_only

http://www.amazon.com/Casio-AP620-Celvia...howViewpoints=1

On another thread, I've heard about you mentioning that in-home service is part of the warranty? Is this true?? And under what condition? I ask this pointed question because when I called Casio Repair, I'm told specifically I must haul this piano in. If this is not true and / or is a new policy, I'd like to know.

The big concern started when I called Casio then found out that for California, 9 out of 10 authorized repair station centers around LA, and then even the closest one to where I live, in San Jose, will require two round trip drives on separate days which will total 4 hour drive.


http://www.casio-usa.com/support/musicservicecenters#CA

I can't imagine what would happen for other users who experience similar or same electrical issue. Casio should have in-house service for these QA / Design issue. You've mentioned that the The WK-3000 is 10+ years old, yet the AP-620 have the same error and sympton, which lead me to believe that there's a design issue. I don't know if this is a battery issue or not, but I'm told that I'm not allowed to open the piano where it would void the warranty. If it is a battery issue, then maybe casio can have a diagram where it teaches users how to open it after the warranty period. Mine is still in warranty, but I'm told that if the battery does exist, then it would still die after about 8 years. The back of the piano has screws to the wood that is staple gunned on the buttom. I'm not sure if the top piece can easily be remove to get at the battery, but should the battery die after 8 years, I would like to repair it. This piano is less than 2 years old.

The other issue is that for people who live far away from LA or San Jose in California, Casio will void the warranty even if Casio were to send the board for self repair. If digital pianos are as reliable as they are, then casio shouldn't be afraid of taking in the cost to send out in-house service for issues that are not a fault of the users. I believe Kawai does this from what I've read as they only have one main service center, so likewise, Kawai can't expect people to drive down to their only service center.

Therefore, I think piano companies should make pianos easy to open and replace parts (and agree that it'll still be in warranty after a user-instructed-repair AND / OR send in-house service rather than having customers drive many hours and a minimum of two round trips to service something like this. For those customers who had the fatal "please wait" error that won't go away, I can't imagine how angry they are. I've also heard independently from a piano repair shop that customers are NOT allowed to buy the boards after the warranty period is over for certain brands? This is what got me VERY worried about buying digital pianos. That $1300 is not easy money for some families, and I can't afford to be forced into "upgrading" or buying another one. Even if this board is replaced during the warranty period, I'm still very nervous about it happening again because there are patterns and linkage to old models that have the same issue. If this is really just a battery issue, then casio should keep track and give precise instructions on how to remedy before / after warranty. This should be Standard Operating Procedure. The current standing policy at Casio is that even if Casio agrees to ship me the board and in install it, the fact that if I were to open the piano, it would void the warranty, thus, so far, I must bring this thing in.

I guess many people don't know that there is a battery in digital pianos that will go off in about 8 or so years, which will prevent saving settings. This sort of stuff should also be in the manual. I'm sure many people are not technically savy to know about these sort of stuff, and thus, another call in for repair / board swap or upgrade? That's not honest, and this applies to all companies that don't announce this sort of issue that can be anticipated with virtual certainty.

For my piano, I'm told it's not a battery issue.


Edited by pianoworldanon (04/15/13 05:07 PM)

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#2065158 - 04/15/13 08:14 PM Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? [Re: pianoworldanon]
galaxy4t Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 853
Loc: Lakewood, CA
The Please Wait issue seems to be a boot problem similar to what happens when a computer doesn't post. Perhaps the internal boot rom is corrupt. If the ROM chip can be replaced, it would seem like an easy fix. Looks like the issue isn't isolated to just one model.

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#2065620 - 04/16/13 03:57 PM Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? [Re: galaxy4t]
pianoworldanon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/03/13
Posts: 62
Originally Posted By: galaxy4t
The Please Wait issue seems to be a boot problem similar to what happens when a computer doesn't post. Perhaps the internal boot rom is corrupt. If the ROM chip can be replaced, it would seem like an easy fix. Looks like the issue isn't isolated to just one model.


I agree.

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#2065633 - 04/16/13 04:53 PM Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? [Re: galaxy4t]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
[Edited]

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#2065652 - 04/16/13 05:39 PM Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? [Re: pv88]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9064
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: pv88
Not that I want to continue to harp on a negative issue...


With the greatest respect, you have made a habit of doing precisely this for every instrument you have purchased - be it a Roland, Casio, or Kawai.

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2065667 - 04/16/13 06:16 PM Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? [Re: pianoworldanon]
Mike_Martin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/21/09
Posts: 386
Pianoworldanon, since you're posting the same thing on multiple threads, I'll post my same comment here:

I have reached out to you privately to try to help you with your situation. I needed some basic information from you, like where you bought your Casio, your product serial number and specifically who at Casio you've been in touch with. You've told me that you don't want to tell me these things.

Clearly there is a breakdown in communication at Casio which I am trying to correct. I am trying to help you. Without information from you, I can't seem to figure out where you're getting this incorrect information. Casio will provide IN HOME WARRANTY REPAIR for Celviano products. This also includes large Privia models like PX-850. As the General Manager of the division, I'm quite certain what I am talking about.

If you'd like to provide me with this information, I'd personally make an effort to get your AP-620 up and running again. I also believe that there are adjustments to the the velocity curve and the brightness setting that will make you significantly happier with your AP-620.
_________________________
-Mike Martin
Casio America

Casio Music Forums
Privia Pro PX-5S Audio Demos

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#2065675 - 04/16/13 06:30 PM Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? [Re: pianoworldanon]
Mike_Martin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/21/09
Posts: 386
PV88,
I personally came to your home and spent hours. Other Casio employees have been to your home. We replaced your AP-620 and your old one was brought back to Casio HQ where it has been played and played. Never while I was at your home were we able to duplicate for me. Never have we duplicated it with your old AP-620 which sits in a room down the hall from my office and gets played often. I believe you provided me with a recording where one note sounded out after everything else. That could be caused by a problem with the sustain or more likely the middle pedal, the sostenuto which you could be inadvertently playing, there could be other reasons but a recording is not enough to go on. I asked for other backup, including MIDI data from the AP-620 using its own built in recorder, we've never received that. Only a GarageBand file which unfortunately does not provide a way to actually see all the MIDI data that the AP-620 produces. If you can duplicate it, I'll come to your house again to see it and if its true we'll get to the heart of the issue. We stand by our products.
_________________________
-Mike Martin
Casio America

Casio Music Forums
Privia Pro PX-5S Audio Demos

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#2065676 - 04/16/13 06:30 PM Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? [Re: pianoworldanon]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
With reference to pianoworldanon Mike, why bother?

People like this will NEVER be happy! The best thing that can happen for Casio is that he gets rid of his AP620 and moves on to harass another unsuspecting manufacturer (on a public forum). You've only got to read the first post in this thread with him barking out orders about how his question can or cannot be answered to know that he is just going to be completely unreasonable. The moment you got in touch privately and made the kind offer you have of getting this sorted for him he should've stopped all this whinging and publicly acknowledged that you are looking after him and his piano's problem.

If the head of a large company sent me personal messages offering assistance or came to my home to respond to a problem I would give them kudos for doing so and I would praise them from the rooftops. Some people are never happy Mike...
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#2065682 - 04/16/13 06:49 PM Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? [Re: Mike_Martin]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
[Edited]

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#2066683 - 04/18/13 06:08 PM Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? [Re: Mike_Martin]
pianoworldanon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/03/13
Posts: 62
Originally Posted By: Mike_Martin
Pianoworldanon, since you're posting the same thing on multiple threads, I'll post my same comment here:

I have reached out to you privately to try to help you with your situation. I needed some basic information from you, like where you bought your Casio, your product serial number and specifically who at Casio you've been in touch with. You've told me that you don't want to tell me these things.

Clearly there is a breakdown in communication at Casio which I am trying to correct. I am trying to help you. Without information from you, I can't seem to figure out where you're getting this incorrect information. Casio will provide IN HOME WARRANTY REPAIR for Celviano products. This also includes large Privia models like PX-850. As the General Manager of the division, I'm quite certain what I am talking about.

If you'd like to provide me with this information, I'd personally make an effort to get your AP-620 up and running again. I also believe that there are adjustments to the the velocity curve and the brightness setting that will make you significantly happier with your AP-620.



I'll give you the serial number in a private message. SO, it's official that Casio Keyboards have IN HOUSE warranty from MIKE. THEREFORE, is someone has problem with their CASIO and their center tells them to drive multiple hours, contact MIKE. I would hope Mike can straighten the customer service reps out when people call.

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#2066687 - 04/18/13 06:10 PM Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? [Re: EssBrace]
pianoworldanon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/03/13
Posts: 62
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
With reference to pianoworldanon Mike, why bother?

People like this will NEVER be happy! The best thing that can happen for Casio is that he gets rid of his AP620 and moves on to harass another unsuspecting manufacturer (on a public forum). You've only got to read the first post in this thread with him barking out orders about how his question can or cannot be answered to know that he is just going to be completely unreasonable. The moment you got in touch privately and made the kind offer you have of getting this sorted for him he should've stopped all this whinging and publicly acknowledged that you are looking after him and his piano's problem.

If the head of a large company sent me personal messages offering assistance or came to my home to respond to a problem I would give them kudos for doing so and I would praise them from the rooftops. Some people are never happy Mike...


TROLL ELSE WHERE!

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#2066700 - 04/18/13 06:35 PM Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? [Re: pianoworldanon]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4340
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: pianoworldanon
TROLL ELSE WHERE!

Irony, dead, etc.

Honestly, it must be pure agony to be in a product support role with a couple of nitpicky-to-a-fault customers consuming all of your time chasing ghosts in the machine.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#2066713 - 04/18/13 07:02 PM Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? [Re: dewster]
pianoworldanon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/03/13
Posts: 62
Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: pianoworldanon
TROLL ELSE WHERE!

Irony, dead, etc.

Honestly, it must be pure agony to be in a product support role with a couple of nitpicky-to-a-fault customers consuming all of your time chasing ghosts in the machine.


Give me the job of customer support and product improvement to any company (minus the politics) and I would contribute in many times over my salary. I have a natural knack of spotting trends, product improvement, improvement in support and workflow, and love to dig in to find root cause.

I've recommended before that the boards should be made so that it can easily be taken out of the piano and swapped through the mail instead of sending techs or have customers drive x # of hours to the service stations. Two trips are the minimum requirement. I think everybody would be happy, and honestly, there's no reason for customers to go digging into the pianos if there's nothing wrong with it, therefore, there's no reason why Companies shouldn't allow customers to swap out the parts themselves. If there's adjustments of the keyboard, then that's an entirely different story which does justify more service. Due to the piano's heavy weight, it is the right thing to do to implement mail order swap. It does not take a scientist to follow simple instructions on what to disconnect and what to plug in if it's designed right.

I wrote to Mike and we'll see if he can send someone out to replace this board or let me replace it provided they still honor the warranty. The more I think about it, the more I think it's nutty to have me unscrew the piano, haul it into my car, drive, and leave my piano to a site, go home, wait for the tech to order the parts, then I drive back to pick it up, haul it home, re-install it, and hope it works. All this to replace a board that weighs less than 1 pound. smile From what I've heard, some companies void the warranty and don't let customer replace the parts because they are afraid of being sued for electric shock. I don't know if this is valid concern.


Edited by pianoworldanon (04/18/13 07:38 PM)

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#2066716 - 04/18/13 07:07 PM Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? [Re: Mike_Martin]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
Originally Posted By: Mike_Martin
PV88,
I personally came to your home and spent hours. Other Casio employees have been to your home. We replaced your AP-620 and your old one was brought back to Casio HQ where it has been played and played. Never while I was at your home were we able to duplicate for me. Never have we duplicated it with your old AP-620 which sits in a room down the hall from my office and gets played often. I believe you provided me with a recording where one note sounded out after everything else. That could be caused by a problem with the sustain or more likely the middle pedal, the sostenuto which you could be inadvertently playing, there could be other reasons but a recording is not enough to go on. I asked for other backup, including MIDI data from the AP-620 using its own built in recorder, we've never received that. Only a GarageBand file which unfortunately does not provide a way to actually see all the MIDI data that the AP-620 produces. If you can duplicate it, I'll come to your house again to see it and if its true we'll get to the heart of the issue. We stand by our products.


Update:

Please note that I no longer own any Casio's as I sold the PX-130 to a private seller and traded in the AP-620 for a new Kawai CA95.

As I now have:

1) Roland V-Piano
2) Kawai CA95
3) Kawai EP3

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