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#2061470 - 04/08/13 07:56 PM Steinway Scuttlebutt
Minnesota Marty Online   content

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Registered: 05/15/12
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Loc: Rochester MN
In the past few years, S&S-NY has put the 'L' in the storeroom and re-issued the 'O'. That was followed by the NY rebirth of the 'A'. Has anyone heard anything about Astoria (re)introducing the 'C'? That would create the identical lineup as Hamburg.
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#2061471 - 04/08/13 08:01 PM Re: Steinway Scuttlebutt [Re: Minnesota Marty]
BDB Online   content
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I think I would prefer that they reintroduce the V in the US.
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#2061489 - 04/08/13 08:45 PM Re: Steinway Scuttlebutt [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

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Registered: 05/15/12
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Loc: Rochester MN
Interesting. Did Hamburg ever build a 'V'?
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Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2061493 - 04/08/13 08:54 PM Re: Steinway Scuttlebutt [Re: Minnesota Marty]
BDB Online   content
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They still do!
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#2061496 - 04/08/13 09:05 PM Re: Steinway Scuttlebutt [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

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Registered: 05/15/12
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I don't think so. Really?
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Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2061499 - 04/08/13 09:09 PM Re: Steinway Scuttlebutt [Re: Minnesota Marty]
BDB Online   content
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#2061510 - 04/08/13 09:23 PM Re: Steinway Scuttlebutt [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

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Registered: 05/15/12
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Loc: Rochester MN
Interesting, now back to the 'C'.
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Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2061541 - 04/08/13 09:57 PM Re: Steinway Scuttlebutt [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Supply Offline
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There is an on-going convergence of the manufacturing at both S&S factories. From small details up to large ones (decisions on which models are built) things are becoming more "unified" at Steinway. I believe that mostly, the changes have consisted consist of New York adopting the Hamburg way of doing things. There are exceptions, such as the New York pedal hardware now on Hamburg models. But for the most part, the NY pianos are becoming more and more like the Hamburg pianos. I think this is a good step forward.

Introducing a "new" model to a manufacturing process like Steinway's is a huge undertaking. I can't see that happening more than once in a decade. But one never knows - the winds of change are blowing ever stronger at Steinway.
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#2061853 - 04/09/13 11:51 AM Re: Steinway Scuttlebutt [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

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Registered: 05/15/12
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Loc: Rochester MN
I'm just curious if there are any rumors floating around, in the biz, about a potential re-introduction of the 'C' for the North American market.

I have a rebuilt/re-scaled 1906 'C' and it is a truly magnificent instrument. It is like playing a superb 'D' without the sheer power to cut through an orchestra. Tonally, it is the same as its bigger brother. I prefer it to the 'B'.
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Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2062185 - 04/09/13 11:13 PM Re: Steinway Scuttlebutt [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Supply Offline
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Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3919
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
I'll be attending an event featuring S&S President Ron Losby next week. Perhaps I can ask him about plans for a C.
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Piano Forte Supply
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#2062230 - 04/10/13 12:57 AM Re: Steinway Scuttlebutt [Re: Supply]
master88er Online   content
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Registered: 04/15/07
Posts: 842
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Originally Posted By: Supply
There is an on-going convergence of the manufacturing at both S&S factories. From small details up to large ones (decisions on which models are built) things are becoming more "unified" at Steinway. I believe that mostly, the changes have consisted consist of New York adopting the Hamburg way of doing things. There are exceptions, such as the New York pedal hardware now on Hamburg models. But for the most part, the NY pianos are becoming more and more like the Hamburg pianos. I think this is a good step forward.

Introducing a "new" model to a manufacturing process like Steinway's is a huge undertaking. I can't see that happening more than once in a decade. But one never knows - the winds of change are blowing ever stronger at Steinway.


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#2062240 - 04/10/13 01:42 AM Re: Steinway Scuttlebutt [Re: Supply]
BDB Online   content
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Registered: 06/07/03
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Loc: Oakland
Originally Posted By: Supply
I'll be attending an event featuring S&S President Ron Losby next week. Perhaps I can ask him about plans for a C.


Ask about the V, too. I had a really sweet one years ago. The guy I sold it to really liked it, too. I have an O, and he has a Hamburg B now, so if our experience is typical, the V is a great stepping-stone piano.
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#2062329 - 04/10/13 08:47 AM Re: Steinway Scuttlebutt [Re: Supply]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

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Registered: 05/15/12
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Loc: Rochester MN
Originally Posted By: Supply
I'll be attending an event featuring S&S President Ron Losby next week. Perhaps I can ask him about plans for a C.


Jurgen - That would be great. Thanks!
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Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2264938 - 04/21/14 12:07 PM Re: Steinway Scuttlebutt [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Wilhelm6 Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 07/10/07
Posts: 92
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Originally Posted By: Supply
I'll be attending an event featuring S&S President Ron Losby next week. Perhaps I can ask him about plans for a C.


Jurgen - That would be great. Thanks!

So what´s about plans for a New York C?

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#2264947 - 04/21/14 12:38 PM Re: Steinway Scuttlebutt [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7211
Loc: Rochester MN
The latest that I was able to find out is the S&S has no plans to reissue the 'C' from the Astoria factory. Apparently they aren't a great seller with the Hamburg, either. The 'B' sets the pace.

It's too bad. The 'C' is a magnificent instrument. It has the full tonal structure and color of the 'D' without the massive, orchestra covering power. The bass will make you weep.
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Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2264955 - 04/21/14 01:02 PM Re: Steinway Scuttlebutt [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Wilhelm6 Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 07/10/07
Posts: 92
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
The latest that I was able to find out is the S&S has no plans to reissue the 'C' from the Astoria factory. Apparently they aren't a great seller with the Hamburg, either. The 'B' sets the pace.

It's too bad. The 'C' is a magnificent instrument. It has the full tonal structure and color of the 'D' without the massive, orchestra covering power. The bass will make you weep.

Not only is the bass of the 'C-227' but also that bad news makes me weep. frown

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#2265103 - 04/21/14 09:28 PM Re: Steinway Scuttlebutt [Re: Minnesota Marty]
iObsessed Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/28/13
Posts: 70
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
The latest that I was able to find out is the S&S has no plans to reissue the 'C' from the Astoria factory. Apparently they aren't a great seller with the Hamburg, either. The 'B' sets the pace.


Well hopefully the Hamburg factory does not stop producing these. They are a rare find. I wonder how many people in America order C's from the Hamburg factory?

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#2265136 - 04/21/14 11:35 PM Re: Steinway Scuttlebutt [Re: iObsessed]
Swarth Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/28/11
Posts: 366
Loc: SF Bay Area Ca.
Originally Posted By: iObsessed
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
The latest that I was able to find out is the S&S has no plans to reissue the 'C' from the Astoria factory. Apparently they aren't a great seller with the Hamburg, either. The 'B' sets the pace.


Well hopefully the Hamburg factory does not stop producing these. They are a rare find. I wonder how many people in America order C's from the Hamburg factory?


Not enough to warrant them making in Astoria.
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#2265194 - 04/22/14 06:55 AM Re: Steinway Scuttlebutt [Re: Minnesota Marty]
joe80 Offline
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Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 1077
I think that the C is a far superior model to the B, in fact I've never really liked the B all that much, and for the slight difference in size, you'd think that more people would want a C. I guess though it's not the slight difference in size but the large difference in price that's the problem!

I remember one model C in the RSAMD in Glasgow that was beautiful until for some reason it was relegated to a practice room and a D was put in its place in the small recital hall. The piano ceased to be well maintained and very quickly sounded like a box of nails. I don't know where it is now but it was a 1989 model.

I've played a few in Germany where they seem to be a bit more popular. Steinway Hall in London doesn't even stock them, but they did rebuild one for Haddo House Opera in Aberdeen recently.

I sometimes wonder if the C is a better option for smaller halls, because the automatic choice of the D is sometimes overpowering. In fact I've been in attendance at the Wigmore Hall and spent time wishing that the concert was over because the piano was just too loud, and I was in the back row.

From a musical perspective I'm one of the few who would, if pushed to choose, stop the production of the B but keep the A and C.

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#2265349 - 04/22/14 03:10 PM Re: Steinway Scuttlebutt [Re: Minnesota Marty]
JohnSprung Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 1238
Loc: Reseda, California

Steinway has two locations because of the tariff laws of the 1880's. Both shipping and tariffs are a lot less expensive today, so it makes less sense to tool up in one place to make what you're already making in the other. If demand was outstripping capacity it would be a different story.
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Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
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#2265390 - 04/22/14 04:22 PM Re: Steinway Scuttlebutt [Re: joe80]
Grotriman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/07/04
Posts: 724
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: joe80
I think that the C is a far superior model to the B, in fact I've never really liked the B all that much, and for the slight difference in size, you'd think that more people would want a C. I guess though it's not the slight difference in size but the large difference in price that's the problem!

I remember one model C in the RSAMD in Glasgow that was beautiful until for some reason it was relegated to a practice room and a D was put in its place in the small recital hall. The piano ceased to be well maintained and very quickly sounded like a box of nails. I don't know where it is now but it was a 1989 model.

I've played a few in Germany where they seem to be a bit more popular. Steinway Hall in London doesn't even stock them, but they did rebuild one for Haddo House Opera in Aberdeen recently.

I sometimes wonder if the C is a better option for smaller halls, because the automatic choice of the D is sometimes overpowering. In fact I've been in attendance at the Wigmore Hall and spent time wishing that the concert was over because the piano was just too loud, and I was in the back row.

From a musical perspective I'm one of the few who would, if pushed to choose, stop the production of the B but keep the A and C.


My own theory on this was that the height of NYC elevator doors pretty much excluded the "C" from a larger market. The B fits perfectly when you keyboard a piano. The A is a nicer scale design than the B (my own opinion, yes without the bass the B provides), but displaced the B sales so they stopped producing the A. Now, with only high net worth people buying new Steinways the A no longer "competes" in the same way.

Still I don't know how many "C"s they could sell when you exclude city dwellers.
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#2265443 - 04/22/14 06:38 PM Re: Steinway Scuttlebutt [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7211
Loc: Rochester MN
Interesting theory.
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Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2265650 - 04/23/14 12:54 AM Re: Steinway Scuttlebutt [Re: Minnesota Marty]
RealPlayer Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 2313
Loc: NYC
I've heard the elevator theory espoused as one (not the only) reason Mason & Hamlin went from a 9'4" concert grand to a 9'0". Not residential elevators, but those in concert halls. I have no idea of the accuracy of that notion. Of course, that was back in the early 20th century.
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#2265699 - 04/23/14 04:42 AM Re: Steinway Scuttlebutt [Re: Grotriman]
joe80 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 1077
Originally Posted By: Grotriman
Originally Posted By: joe80
I think that the C is a far superior model to the B, in fact I've never really liked the B all that much, and for the slight difference in size, you'd think that more people would want a C. I guess though it's not the slight difference in size but the large difference in price that's the problem!

I remember one model C in the RSAMD in Glasgow that was beautiful until for some reason it was relegated to a practice room and a D was put in its place in the small recital hall. The piano ceased to be well maintained and very quickly sounded like a box of nails. I don't know where it is now but it was a 1989 model.

I've played a few in Germany where they seem to be a bit more popular. Steinway Hall in London doesn't even stock them, but they did rebuild one for Haddo House Opera in Aberdeen recently.

I sometimes wonder if the C is a better option for smaller halls, because the automatic choice of the D is sometimes overpowering. In fact I've been in attendance at the Wigmore Hall and spent time wishing that the concert was over because the piano was just too loud, and I was in the back row.

From a musical perspective I'm one of the few who would, if pushed to choose, stop the production of the B but keep the A and C.


My own theory on this was that the height of NYC elevator doors pretty much excluded the "C" from a larger market. The B fits perfectly when you keyboard a piano. The A is a nicer scale design than the B (my own opinion, yes without the bass the B provides), but displaced the B sales so they stopped producing the A. Now, with only high net worth people buying new Steinways the A no longer "competes" in the same way.

Still I don't know how many "C"s they could sell when you exclude city dwellers.


In fact I would take your evaluation further (between the model A and B) and say that the imbalance of the B is not worth the extra bass, which to my ear sounds like excessive growl. Mind you some people like that! I always found that the B sounded a bit like a speaker box, whereas the A and C are far more musical instruments.

I don't know about elevators, because the Yamaha C7 (not the C6) retains an enduring popularity.

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#2265977 - 04/23/14 06:06 PM Re: Steinway Scuttlebutt [Re: Minnesota Marty]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3319
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
In the past few years, S&S-NY has put the 'L' in the storeroom and re-issued the 'O'. That was followed by the NY rebirth of the 'A'. Has anyone heard anything about Astoria (re)introducing the 'C'? That would create the identical lineup as Hamburg.


I've been wishing they'd do this, for years. Without doing so, they've basically given Yamaha an entire segment of the market... those who want something inbetween a B and a D. Frankly, I don't really care for the B, most of the time.
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#2266012 - 04/23/14 07:31 PM Re: Steinway Scuttlebutt [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7211
Loc: Rochester MN
I wonder if Astoria still has the plate forms and rim templates still available?

All we'd need is about 150 of us to place special orders, and voilà ...

(or not)
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Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2266020 - 04/23/14 07:37 PM Re: Steinway Scuttlebutt [Re: joe80]
hoola Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/08
Posts: 167
Loc: LA, USA
"the imbalance of the B is not worth the extra bass, which to my ear sounds like excessive growl"

The more I listen, observe and meditate, the more I think that pianist should not expect too much about piano, but he should adjust to take the best of it, in case of excessive growl then play bass softer. This is the whole osmosis of pianist, piano, environment. My wife produces good sound on the small upright Yamaha, but struggles to play well on the Grotrian 192 (because she is busy and her fingers are weak), a friend came and pulled the best of the Grotrian. A lot of time I see that a small piano in a small room sounds much better than a bigger piano.

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#2266168 - 04/23/14 11:25 PM Re: Steinway Scuttlebutt [Re: Minnesota Marty]
RealPlayer Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 2313
Loc: NYC
The B and D are such "known quantities" here in the States that a re-introduced C would be fighting with them for attention. The B has a firm base of loyal professional pianists who own them.

I am not crazy about the B (though I have heard a few good ones) and am intrigued by the few Cs I have played.
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www.josephkubera.com

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#2266188 - 04/24/14 12:16 AM Re: Steinway Scuttlebutt [Re: Minnesota Marty]
JohnSprung Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 1238
Loc: Reseda, California
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
I wonder if Astoria still has the plate forms and rim templates still available?


If not, just ship the finished pianos from Hamburg. It would be more cost effective than tooling up again.
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Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
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#2266279 - 04/24/14 04:13 AM Re: Steinway Scuttlebutt [Re: hoola]
joe80 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 1077
Originally Posted By: hoola
"the imbalance of the B is not worth the extra bass, which to my ear sounds like excessive growl"

The more I listen, observe and meditate, the more I think that pianist should not expect too much about piano, but he should adjust to take the best of it, in case of excessive growl then play bass softer. This is the whole osmosis of pianist, piano, environment. My wife produces good sound on the small upright Yamaha, but struggles to play well on the Grotrian 192 (because she is busy and her fingers are weak), a friend came and pulled the best of the Grotrian. A lot of time I see that a small piano in a small room sounds much better than a bigger piano.



All well and true, but I'm basing my opinion on having played and performed on hundreds of pianos, and also sitting in places like Steinway Hall and comparing A, B, C and D pianos side by side, in which case you can make a fair comparison.

Yes, when you turn up for your recital and the piano turns out to be a total turkey (which has happened to me with several pianos, including very new Steinways that haven't been looked after or set up right), there's not much else you can do other than just play your best and compensate for the instrument.

Sometimes you can get a really nice surprise and play on a beautiful piano - it can be one that you don't expect like a 100 year old Chappell grand that happens to have been kept in good condition, or it can be a fabulous new Steinway or whatever.

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