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#2062635 - 04/10/13 11:01 PM Kurzweil Artis...
HwyStar Offline
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Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 323

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#2062643 - 04/10/13 11:15 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
Stevesie Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/23/12
Posts: 45
Is it just me, or does that thing sound like a real piano?

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#2062679 - 04/11/13 12:55 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
LesCharles73 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 739
Loc: Denton Texas
Good to see that Kurzweil is out there developing new samples! They had been using that old piano sample with minor tweeks along the way for about the past 20 years. Hopefully this and subsequent instruments will put them back in the spotlight. Sounded pretty good too, given the mediocre quality of the audio in the video. I look forward to seeing some technical specs (especially relating to the action). I imagine they're still using Fatar, but we'll see. I have played some surprisingly decent Fatar actions and their new ones are said to be very worthy.
_________________________
Les C Deal





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#2062685 - 04/11/13 01:08 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
hamlet cat Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 103
Loc: Mojave Desert
The action is Fatar TP100 according to Dave Weiser of Kurzweil. He made that comment over at Keyboard Corner forum.

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#2062699 - 04/11/13 01:35 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: Stevesie]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Stevesie
Is it just me, or does that thing sound like a real piano?


Is it just me, or don't these raw YouTube event floor videos give any good impression at all about how the piano sounds ?! Can't judge anything about the sound in these vids other than that it sort of sounds like a piano, like any other DP or synth can sound like a piano.

For the rest of the discussion about the artis see the musikmesse 2013 thread. Much has been asked and said about it there already and there is a link to a forum where David Weiss (Kurzweil) participates in the discussion. Cheers , J

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#2062701 - 04/11/13 01:42 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
Dave B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 1969
Loc: Philadelphia area
I'm hoping it interfaces with computers etc.

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#2062715 - 04/11/13 02:24 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: Dave B]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Untill
Originally Posted By: Dave B
I'm hoping it interfaces with computers etc.


Until now they always did. The PC3 series quite well actually (USB); with a nice editor as a bonus.

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#2062757 - 04/11/13 05:29 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
MVshabeer2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/03/11
Posts: 86
Probably it will be the same sample as synthogy ivory.

I read somewhere on the internet kurzweil is working with synthogy for next piano (may be just rumor).

Waiting for good demos.

90's triple strike sounds decent on VAST, so this must sound fantastic.

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#2062761 - 04/11/13 05:44 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2401
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
At 5:06 on that video is that godawful Kurzweil noise. Aarrgh! There is no way on God's earth that is a brand new sound set. Audio is in mono, which is a bummer too, but it just sounds like the classic Kurzweil sound - with those bell like odd notes in the mid range again - which make the sounds INSTANTLY recognisable (that's not a compliment in this case!). Shame.

Who buys the nonsense about recording and sampling for ten years? A one fingered, one armed blind man could set up and record a piano in less than ten years!

I've an idea they have taken the original Kurzweil sounds and fiddled around with them endlessly (yes, possibly ten years, given the difficulties the company has faced) to get something more out of them (more dynamic layers for instance, longer attack samples, who knows).

Anyway, that's enough of my groundless suspicions!

Ps, 7:37 - the "Thriller" sound - cheese!!!
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#2062766 - 04/11/13 06:00 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
@EssBrace ; I found it hard to judge at all. Sounded pretty bad on my Focal monitors. Mucho mucho bass and especially mid sound and the hihger range very soft and distance, like from another recording. Quite unbalanced. Can't believe this is how it sounds for real, but probably has more to do with the YouTube recording (bad setup/ bad equipment or both). First let's hear some decent demo files , before final judgement.

Hope you're not right by the way. The old original Kurz piano is still coming of old tape recordings (pre digital age). I really don't believe they choose that as a source again - if they did , we'll that would settle it for most of us I think and render Kurzweil out of the equation. Let's wait and see (hear)...

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#2062778 - 04/11/13 07:04 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: JFP]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1731
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Originally Posted By: JFP
Much has been asked and said about it there already and there is a link to a forum where David Weiss (Kurzweil) participates in the discussion. Cheers , J


You know JFP, you might want to register over there at KC/Music Player forums and ask some of these questions about the Artis to Dave Weiser himself. He's in Boston on East Coast Standard time, so I'm guessing 3-4 hours , maybe less, he'd be checking into that forum.
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D, Yamaha CP4, CP5 (home use) , RCF TT08A, TT22A speakers

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#2062782 - 04/11/13 07:43 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: EssBrace]
MVshabeer2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/03/11
Posts: 86
I have noticed the bell too. smile

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#2062789 - 04/11/13 07:57 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
Clayman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 300
Loc: Prague, Czech Rep.
@EssBrace, regarding that first recording starting at ~5 minutes into the video, I was wondering if it was me or if it really sounded as "cheap" as it did. I know Kurzweil has had their "trademark" sound many artists seek but I can't really get myself over it.

The middle part with that more classical piece, I thought it actually sounded fairly decent although the YouTube video might not do it justice.

As for the other sounds, well... I guess I'd have to be a sucker for Kurzweil to get a kick out of those. Didn't like them unfortunately.


Edited by Clayman (04/11/13 07:58 AM)
_________________________
-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown

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#2062795 - 04/11/13 08:40 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: MVshabeer2]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9206
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: MVshabeer2
Probably it will be the same sample as synthogy ivory.


The Ivory II package is a collection of various different pianos, one of which is almost 50GB in size.

Originally Posted By: MVshabeer2
I read somewhere on the internet kurzweil is working with synthogy for next piano (may be just rumor).


Source please.

Synthogy's founders George Taylor and Joe Ierardi previously worked for Kurzweil Music Systems - perhaps this is what you're referring to?

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2062802 - 04/11/13 08:59 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: EssBrace]
Paolo70 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 85
Loc: Italy
Hi all,

Originally Posted By: EssBrace
At 5:06 on that video is that godawful Kurzweil noise. Aarrgh! There is no way on God's earth that is a brand new sound set. Audio is in mono, which is a bummer too, but it just sounds like the classic Kurzweil sound - with those bell like odd notes in the mid range again - which make the sounds INSTANTLY recognisable (that's not a compliment in this case!). Shame.


I recommend being very cautious about evaluating sample quality from a mono recording. If the mixing down from stereo to mono is was not done very carefully, phase clashes between stereo channels may well have wreaked havoc in the original sound. I suspect this is the case with this recording because it sounds illogically canned.

Ciao,
Paolo
_________________________
Yamaha CLP-970
Roland JV-1080

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#2062998 - 04/11/13 04:06 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: Kawai James]
MVshabeer2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/03/11
Posts: 86
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: MVshabeer2
Probably it will be the same sample as synthogy ivory.


The Ivory II package is a collection of various different pianos, one of which is almost 50GB in size.

Originally Posted By: MVshabeer2
I read somewhere on the internet kurzweil is working with synthogy for next piano (may be just rumor).


Source please.

Synthogy's founders George Taylor and Joe Ierardi previously worked for Kurzweil Music Systems - perhaps this is what you're referring to?

Cheers,
James
x

James,
I cant remember where (have been a year or 2), but what I read was something like "Kurzweil working with synthogy for new piano".

This doesn't mean that they have used ivory samples.

Also the above statement will be just a rumor. I don't know.

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#2063002 - 04/11/13 04:12 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
MVshabeer2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/03/11
Posts: 86

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#2063021 - 04/11/13 04:48 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: MVshabeer2]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2401
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: MVshabeer2


Sounds very Kurzweil-ish to me. Will be interesting to hear some good quality recordings in true stereo. But it really does have that sound!

All these years later, what are the chances of them finding either the same source piano or a completely different piano voiced to create those weird bell-like mid notes? And what are the chances of the sampling processes coming up with just that sound again, what, 15, 20 years after the original samples? Zilch, that what the chances are. I'm jumping to conclusions I know but I'm sticking my neck out and saying these new sounds are VERY CLOSELY related to the original Kurzweil samples. It's just an unmistakeable sound.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#2063026 - 04/11/13 04:53 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: EssBrace]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3226
Well, the "Kurzweil sound" was very desirable to lots of people for a long time... maybe an improved version of "that" sound for Kurzweil is more sensible than going for a whole different piano sound. So maybe they are from the same source piano.

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#2063033 - 04/11/13 05:20 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Maybe, if, could be, is possible ....as long as they don't provide proper sound demo's we don't know for sure. I guess Dave won't tell us if it was indeed of the same (old) recording. So we'll have to judge from the sound files when they become available. Again , I personally can't tell what I'm hearing from these few raw YouTube vids; is it a bad recording , wrong equipment , wrong wiring and/or settings; want decent demo's that are directly output from the Kurzweil in the best and most clean possible way and with some good variations in phrases to judge.

Pro's ; decent weight, after touch, some nice controller features and hopefully a good collection of the best Kurzweil sounds.

Con's ; it's tp-100 , not GF (can't be), possibly not any other new sounds - apart from the grand piano, possibly no modern features for the AP like half-damping and such (but we don't know yet).

Still much guesswork. We'll see...

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#2063036 - 04/11/13 05:23 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: JFP]
Scott Hamlin Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/12
Posts: 553
Originally Posted By: JFP
Originally Posted By: Stevesie
Is it just me, or does that thing sound like a real piano?


Is it just me, or don't these raw YouTube event floor videos give any good impression at all about how the piano sounds ?! Can't judge anything about the sound in these vids other than that it sort of sounds like a piano, like any other DP or synth can sound like a piano.


Is it just me or did someone not actually
watch & listen to the DP demo - they "killed"
the handheld mic and took direct audio into
the camera... it sounds just fine.
_________________________
http://DulceLabs.com
Sound, Video, Design

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#2063189 - 04/11/13 11:27 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: Scott Hamlin]
Dave Weiser Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/20/12
Posts: 27
Loc: Boston, MA
Here's some info on the Artis in response to questions/speculation..

The new Artis 6 strike sample was recorded within the last 2 years in a top notch studio. We auditioned several pianos and chose the one that we thought would be most versatile. We spent a good amount of time processing it with our proprietary software tools. Just within the past week or so, we have started voicing (programming) with these samples. What's being played at Messe are just preliminary programs.

It is definitely not the same piano that we had sampled for our older instruments. Once y'all get to listen to a better recording on good speakers or with good cans, you'll clearly be able to hear the difference. Apart from the recording itself being a bit higher quality, with larger samples and more roots, you'll easily be able to notice that the two pianos just sound quite *different* from one another.

Also, we are definitely not working with Synthogy or sharing samples with them. They're a great company and make killer products... all of us at Kurz are fans.

For more updates on the Artis, pop over to the Keyboard Corner forum, where I'll be posting/reading a bit more frequently.

As always, if anyone has a pressing Kurz-related issue, feel free to shoot me an email. dave@ycrdi.com

Dave Weiser
Kurzweil R&D
_________________________
Custom Sound Design and Keyboard Sales
www.weisersound.com
https://www.facebook.com/weisersound?ref=hl

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#2063194 - 04/11/13 11:34 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
Dave Weiser Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/20/12
Posts: 27
Loc: Boston, MA
Forgot to add.... we will of course be releasing high quality audio demos of the Artis as we get closer to its release date. Release is on track for July, which means it will hit stores by September.
_________________________
Custom Sound Design and Keyboard Sales
www.weisersound.com
https://www.facebook.com/weisersound?ref=hl

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#2063201 - 04/11/13 11:43 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9206
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Thanks for posting Dave!

Best of luck with the new board!

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2063218 - 04/12/13 12:15 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: Clayman]
LesCharles73 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 739
Loc: Denton Texas
Originally Posted By: Clayman
As for the other sounds, well... I guess I'd have to be a sucker for Kurzweil to get a kick out of those. Didn't like them unfortunately.


Heh. In no way do those two random 'legacy sounds' reflect what a Kurz can do or sound like. I don't know why the presenter chose those - I would have loved to hear him play something on the rich orchestral patches.


Edited by LesCharles73 (04/12/13 12:15 AM)
_________________________
Les C Deal





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#2063283 - 04/12/13 03:54 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: Dave Weiser]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2401
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: Dave Weiser
The new Artis 6 strike sample was recorded within the last 2 years in a top notch studio. We auditioned several pianos and chose the one that we thought would be most versatile. We spent a good amount of time processing it with our proprietary software tools. Just within the past week or so, we have started voicing (programming) with these samples.


Interesting. I'm wrong. But it still sounds like Kurzweil.

The demo guy says - "recording and sampling and engineering it for years" which is a bit of an exaggeration!

Six dynamic layers though - not too shabby for a hardware product.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#2063286 - 04/12/13 04:10 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
"The new Artis 6 strike sample was recorded within the last 2 years in a top notch studio. We auditioned several pianos and chose the one that we thought would be most versatile. We spent a good amount of time processing it with our proprietary software tools."

So we chose the one....that we used the first time for the triple strike samples , haha ;-) That would explain what EssBrace is hearing. Or it's the "proprietary software tools" that give it the typical Kurzweil mid kind of piano-touch...

Just kidding of course; I assume it is indeed a brand new (other) piano and hope the tools don't give any piano-sample the typical three-strike sound finish.

Let's be patient and wait for the better demo's of the more final AP sounds. September is still a looooong way off.

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#2063305 - 04/12/13 05:49 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: Dave Weiser]
MVshabeer2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/03/11
Posts: 86
Originally Posted By: Dave Weiser
Forgot to add.... we will of course be releasing high quality audio demos of the Artis as we get closer to its release date. Release is on track for July, which means it will hit stores by September.



So that's for Summer NAMM,
Means don't hope for the K-successor frown

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#2063307 - 04/12/13 06:03 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: LesCharles73]
Clayman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 300
Loc: Prague, Czech Rep.
Originally Posted By: LesCharles73

Heh. In no way do those two random 'legacy sounds' reflect what a Kurz can do or sound like. I don't know why the presenter chose those - I would have loved to hear him play something on the rich orchestral patches.


So would I, I guess. I understand the presenter may have wanted to appeal to the fans of Kurzweil but I for one would like to hear something more... hmm, realistic?
_________________________
-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown

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#2063439 - 04/12/13 11:25 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: Clayman]
LesCharles73 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 739
Loc: Denton Texas
Originally Posted By: Clayman
So would I, I guess. I understand the presenter may have wanted to appeal to the fans of Kurzweil but I for one would like to hear something more... hmm, realistic?


Yeah, me too. Those out-worldly synth sounds are on almost every keyboard. Even old Kurzweils. I would have liked to have heard those new horns he spoke of. That said, the presenter didn't appear to be much of a hardware guy (Dave said in another forum that he's pretty new, so bare with him) and I don't think the demo board was fully programmed yet. It probably came straight from the lab.
_________________________
Les C Deal





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