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#2062635 - 04/10/13 11:01 PM Kurzweil Artis...
HwyStar Offline
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Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 319

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#2062643 - 04/10/13 11:15 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
Stevesie Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/23/12
Posts: 45
Is it just me, or does that thing sound like a real piano?

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#2062679 - 04/11/13 12:55 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
LesCharles73 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 739
Loc: Denton Texas
Good to see that Kurzweil is out there developing new samples! They had been using that old piano sample with minor tweeks along the way for about the past 20 years. Hopefully this and subsequent instruments will put them back in the spotlight. Sounded pretty good too, given the mediocre quality of the audio in the video. I look forward to seeing some technical specs (especially relating to the action). I imagine they're still using Fatar, but we'll see. I have played some surprisingly decent Fatar actions and their new ones are said to be very worthy.
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#2062685 - 04/11/13 01:08 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
hamlet cat Offline
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Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 103
Loc: Mojave Desert
The action is Fatar TP100 according to Dave Weiser of Kurzweil. He made that comment over at Keyboard Corner forum.

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#2062699 - 04/11/13 01:35 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: Stevesie]
JFP Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1317
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Stevesie
Is it just me, or does that thing sound like a real piano?


Is it just me, or don't these raw YouTube event floor videos give any good impression at all about how the piano sounds ?! Can't judge anything about the sound in these vids other than that it sort of sounds like a piano, like any other DP or synth can sound like a piano.

For the rest of the discussion about the artis see the musikmesse 2013 thread. Much has been asked and said about it there already and there is a link to a forum where David Weiss (Kurzweil) participates in the discussion. Cheers , J

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#2062701 - 04/11/13 01:42 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
Dave B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 1730
Loc: Philadelphia area
I'm hoping it interfaces with computers etc.

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#2062715 - 04/11/13 02:24 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: Dave B]
JFP Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1317
Loc: The Netherlands
Untill
Originally Posted By: Dave B
I'm hoping it interfaces with computers etc.


Until now they always did. The PC3 series quite well actually (USB); with a nice editor as a bonus.

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#2062757 - 04/11/13 05:29 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
MVshabeer2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/03/11
Posts: 86
Probably it will be the same sample as synthogy ivory.

I read somewhere on the internet kurzweil is working with synthogy for next piano (may be just rumor).

Waiting for good demos.

90's triple strike sounds decent on VAST, so this must sound fantastic.

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#2062761 - 04/11/13 05:44 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2321
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
At 5:06 on that video is that godawful Kurzweil noise. Aarrgh! There is no way on God's earth that is a brand new sound set. Audio is in mono, which is a bummer too, but it just sounds like the classic Kurzweil sound - with those bell like odd notes in the mid range again - which make the sounds INSTANTLY recognisable (that's not a compliment in this case!). Shame.

Who buys the nonsense about recording and sampling for ten years? A one fingered, one armed blind man could set up and record a piano in less than ten years!

I've an idea they have taken the original Kurzweil sounds and fiddled around with them endlessly (yes, possibly ten years, given the difficulties the company has faced) to get something more out of them (more dynamic layers for instance, longer attack samples, who knows).

Anyway, that's enough of my groundless suspicions!

Ps, 7:37 - the "Thriller" sound - cheese!!!
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#2062766 - 04/11/13 06:00 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
JFP Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1317
Loc: The Netherlands
@EssBrace ; I found it hard to judge at all. Sounded pretty bad on my Focal monitors. Mucho mucho bass and especially mid sound and the hihger range very soft and distance, like from another recording. Quite unbalanced. Can't believe this is how it sounds for real, but probably has more to do with the YouTube recording (bad setup/ bad equipment or both). First let's hear some decent demo files , before final judgement.

Hope you're not right by the way. The old original Kurz piano is still coming of old tape recordings (pre digital age). I really don't believe they choose that as a source again - if they did , we'll that would settle it for most of us I think and render Kurzweil out of the equation. Let's wait and see (hear)...

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#2062778 - 04/11/13 07:04 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: JFP]
Dave Ferris Offline
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Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1675
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Originally Posted By: JFP
Much has been asked and said about it there already and there is a link to a forum where David Weiss (Kurzweil) participates in the discussion. Cheers , J


You know JFP, you might want to register over there at KC/Music Player forums and ask some of these questions about the Artis to Dave Weiser himself. He's in Boston on East Coast Standard time, so I'm guessing 3-4 hours , maybe less, he'd be checking into that forum.
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2005 NY Steinway D, Nord Piano 2

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#2062782 - 04/11/13 07:43 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: EssBrace]
MVshabeer2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/03/11
Posts: 86
I have noticed the bell too. smile

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#2062789 - 04/11/13 07:57 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
Clayman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 300
Loc: Prague, Czech Rep.
@EssBrace, regarding that first recording starting at ~5 minutes into the video, I was wondering if it was me or if it really sounded as "cheap" as it did. I know Kurzweil has had their "trademark" sound many artists seek but I can't really get myself over it.

The middle part with that more classical piece, I thought it actually sounded fairly decent although the YouTube video might not do it justice.

As for the other sounds, well... I guess I'd have to be a sucker for Kurzweil to get a kick out of those. Didn't like them unfortunately.


Edited by Clayman (04/11/13 07:58 AM)
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Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown

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#2062795 - 04/11/13 08:40 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: MVshabeer2]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8373
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: MVshabeer2
Probably it will be the same sample as synthogy ivory.


The Ivory II package is a collection of various different pianos, one of which is almost 50GB in size.

Originally Posted By: MVshabeer2
I read somewhere on the internet kurzweil is working with synthogy for next piano (may be just rumor).


Source please.

Synthogy's founders George Taylor and Joe Ierardi previously worked for Kurzweil Music Systems - perhaps this is what you're referring to?

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2062802 - 04/11/13 08:59 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: EssBrace]
Paolo70 Online   content
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Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 67
Loc: Italy
Hi all,

Originally Posted By: EssBrace
At 5:06 on that video is that godawful Kurzweil noise. Aarrgh! There is no way on God's earth that is a brand new sound set. Audio is in mono, which is a bummer too, but it just sounds like the classic Kurzweil sound - with those bell like odd notes in the mid range again - which make the sounds INSTANTLY recognisable (that's not a compliment in this case!). Shame.


I recommend being very cautious about evaluating sample quality from a mono recording. If the mixing down from stereo to mono is was not done very carefully, phase clashes between stereo channels may well have wreaked havoc in the original sound. I suspect this is the case with this recording because it sounds illogically canned.

Ciao,
Paolo
_________________________
Yamaha CLP-970
Roland JV-1080

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#2062998 - 04/11/13 04:06 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: Kawai James]
MVshabeer2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/03/11
Posts: 86
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: MVshabeer2
Probably it will be the same sample as synthogy ivory.


The Ivory II package is a collection of various different pianos, one of which is almost 50GB in size.

Originally Posted By: MVshabeer2
I read somewhere on the internet kurzweil is working with synthogy for next piano (may be just rumor).


Source please.

Synthogy's founders George Taylor and Joe Ierardi previously worked for Kurzweil Music Systems - perhaps this is what you're referring to?

Cheers,
James
x

James,
I cant remember where (have been a year or 2), but what I read was something like "Kurzweil working with synthogy for new piano".

This doesn't mean that they have used ivory samples.

Also the above statement will be just a rumor. I don't know.

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#2063002 - 04/11/13 04:12 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
MVshabeer2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/03/11
Posts: 86

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#2063021 - 04/11/13 04:48 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: MVshabeer2]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2321
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: MVshabeer2


Sounds very Kurzweil-ish to me. Will be interesting to hear some good quality recordings in true stereo. But it really does have that sound!

All these years later, what are the chances of them finding either the same source piano or a completely different piano voiced to create those weird bell-like mid notes? And what are the chances of the sampling processes coming up with just that sound again, what, 15, 20 years after the original samples? Zilch, that what the chances are. I'm jumping to conclusions I know but I'm sticking my neck out and saying these new sounds are VERY CLOSELY related to the original Kurzweil samples. It's just an unmistakeable sound.
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#2063026 - 04/11/13 04:53 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: EssBrace]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3075
Well, the "Kurzweil sound" was very desirable to lots of people for a long time... maybe an improved version of "that" sound for Kurzweil is more sensible than going for a whole different piano sound. So maybe they are from the same source piano.

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#2063033 - 04/11/13 05:20 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
JFP Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1317
Loc: The Netherlands
Maybe, if, could be, is possible ....as long as they don't provide proper sound demo's we don't know for sure. I guess Dave won't tell us if it was indeed of the same (old) recording. So we'll have to judge from the sound files when they become available. Again , I personally can't tell what I'm hearing from these few raw YouTube vids; is it a bad recording , wrong equipment , wrong wiring and/or settings; want decent demo's that are directly output from the Kurzweil in the best and most clean possible way and with some good variations in phrases to judge.

Pro's ; decent weight, after touch, some nice controller features and hopefully a good collection of the best Kurzweil sounds.

Con's ; it's tp-100 , not GF (can't be), possibly not any other new sounds - apart from the grand piano, possibly no modern features for the AP like half-damping and such (but we don't know yet).

Still much guesswork. We'll see...

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#2063036 - 04/11/13 05:23 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: JFP]
Scott Hamlin Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/12
Posts: 531
Originally Posted By: JFP
Originally Posted By: Stevesie
Is it just me, or does that thing sound like a real piano?


Is it just me, or don't these raw YouTube event floor videos give any good impression at all about how the piano sounds ?! Can't judge anything about the sound in these vids other than that it sort of sounds like a piano, like any other DP or synth can sound like a piano.


Is it just me or did someone not actually
watch & listen to the DP demo - they "killed"
the handheld mic and took direct audio into
the camera... it sounds just fine.
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http://DulceLabs.com
Sound, Video, Design

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#2063189 - 04/11/13 11:27 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: Scott Hamlin]
Dave Weiser Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/20/12
Posts: 17
Loc: Boston, MA
Here's some info on the Artis in response to questions/speculation..

The new Artis 6 strike sample was recorded within the last 2 years in a top notch studio. We auditioned several pianos and chose the one that we thought would be most versatile. We spent a good amount of time processing it with our proprietary software tools. Just within the past week or so, we have started voicing (programming) with these samples. What's being played at Messe are just preliminary programs.

It is definitely not the same piano that we had sampled for our older instruments. Once y'all get to listen to a better recording on good speakers or with good cans, you'll clearly be able to hear the difference. Apart from the recording itself being a bit higher quality, with larger samples and more roots, you'll easily be able to notice that the two pianos just sound quite *different* from one another.

Also, we are definitely not working with Synthogy or sharing samples with them. They're a great company and make killer products... all of us at Kurz are fans.

For more updates on the Artis, pop over to the Keyboard Corner forum, where I'll be posting/reading a bit more frequently.

As always, if anyone has a pressing Kurz-related issue, feel free to shoot me an email. dave@ycrdi.com

Dave Weiser
Kurzweil R&D
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#2063194 - 04/11/13 11:34 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
Dave Weiser Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/20/12
Posts: 17
Loc: Boston, MA
Forgot to add.... we will of course be releasing high quality audio demos of the Artis as we get closer to its release date. Release is on track for July, which means it will hit stores by September.
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#2063201 - 04/11/13 11:43 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8373
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Thanks for posting Dave!

Best of luck with the new board!

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2063218 - 04/12/13 12:15 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: Clayman]
LesCharles73 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 739
Loc: Denton Texas
Originally Posted By: Clayman
As for the other sounds, well... I guess I'd have to be a sucker for Kurzweil to get a kick out of those. Didn't like them unfortunately.


Heh. In no way do those two random 'legacy sounds' reflect what a Kurz can do or sound like. I don't know why the presenter chose those - I would have loved to hear him play something on the rich orchestral patches.


Edited by LesCharles73 (04/12/13 12:15 AM)
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Les C Deal





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#2063283 - 04/12/13 03:54 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: Dave Weiser]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2321
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: Dave Weiser
The new Artis 6 strike sample was recorded within the last 2 years in a top notch studio. We auditioned several pianos and chose the one that we thought would be most versatile. We spent a good amount of time processing it with our proprietary software tools. Just within the past week or so, we have started voicing (programming) with these samples.


Interesting. I'm wrong. But it still sounds like Kurzweil.

The demo guy says - "recording and sampling and engineering it for years" which is a bit of an exaggeration!

Six dynamic layers though - not too shabby for a hardware product.
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Yamaha CP1

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#2063286 - 04/12/13 04:10 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
JFP Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1317
Loc: The Netherlands
"The new Artis 6 strike sample was recorded within the last 2 years in a top notch studio. We auditioned several pianos and chose the one that we thought would be most versatile. We spent a good amount of time processing it with our proprietary software tools."

So we chose the one....that we used the first time for the triple strike samples , haha ;-) That would explain what EssBrace is hearing. Or it's the "proprietary software tools" that give it the typical Kurzweil mid kind of piano-touch...

Just kidding of course; I assume it is indeed a brand new (other) piano and hope the tools don't give any piano-sample the typical three-strike sound finish.

Let's be patient and wait for the better demo's of the more final AP sounds. September is still a looooong way off.

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#2063305 - 04/12/13 05:49 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: Dave Weiser]
MVshabeer2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/03/11
Posts: 86
Originally Posted By: Dave Weiser
Forgot to add.... we will of course be releasing high quality audio demos of the Artis as we get closer to its release date. Release is on track for July, which means it will hit stores by September.



So that's for Summer NAMM,
Means don't hope for the K-successor frown

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#2063307 - 04/12/13 06:03 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: LesCharles73]
Clayman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 300
Loc: Prague, Czech Rep.
Originally Posted By: LesCharles73

Heh. In no way do those two random 'legacy sounds' reflect what a Kurz can do or sound like. I don't know why the presenter chose those - I would have loved to hear him play something on the rich orchestral patches.


So would I, I guess. I understand the presenter may have wanted to appeal to the fans of Kurzweil but I for one would like to hear something more... hmm, realistic?
_________________________
-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown

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#2063439 - 04/12/13 11:25 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: Clayman]
LesCharles73 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 739
Loc: Denton Texas
Originally Posted By: Clayman
So would I, I guess. I understand the presenter may have wanted to appeal to the fans of Kurzweil but I for one would like to hear something more... hmm, realistic?


Yeah, me too. Those out-worldly synth sounds are on almost every keyboard. Even old Kurzweils. I would have liked to have heard those new horns he spoke of. That said, the presenter didn't appear to be much of a hardware guy (Dave said in another forum that he's pretty new, so bare with him) and I don't think the demo board was fully programmed yet. It probably came straight from the lab.
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#2063459 - 04/12/13 12:02 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: LesCharles73]
Dave Weiser Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/20/12
Posts: 17
Loc: Boston, MA
The one synth program he played is in fact a bit glitchy on the new hardware. That will get sorted shortly.

The other sounds in the machine - EPs, Clavs, strings, etc from our PC3, plus synths and guitars from the Kore 64 ROM have received very positive feedback so far.

The piano programs are preliminary - we only started programming with the new samples about a week ago.
The new samples are a bit more versatile than the older ones, with a lot more harmonic content, esp in the mids.

Hoping to see a few more Messe videos... after that, we'll be releasing better quality audio demos in the upcoming weeks.

Be sure to check in at Keyboard Corner as well as our facebook page for more updates. http://www.facebook.com/kurzweilmusicsystems
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#2064721 - 04/14/13 11:36 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
henrik Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/14/08
Posts: 150
Loc: malaysia
kurzweil's new product prices have become very competitive. nice stage pianos costing way less than Rolands/Yamahas. I didn't like triplestrike, sounded thin compared to my clavinova clp330. so I'm excited with kurzweil artis if the price is around RD300gx
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#2064782 - 04/15/13 03:06 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: Dave Weiser]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1706
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: Dave Weiser
Forgot to add.... we will of course be releasing high quality audio demos of the Artis as we get closer to its release date. Release is on track for July, which means it will hit stores by September.



Is that September 2013? .... I mean we have to ask after all it IS a Kurzweil and its usually a long time between drinks these days ...
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#2065606 - 04/16/13 03:16 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
JFP Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1317
Loc: The Netherlands
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=oS272H9AfbY

Don't know if it was already posted. Thought it gave a better impression of the AP sound...

Cheers

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#2065697 - 04/16/13 07:32 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
HwyStar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 319
Now that video sounds pretty good JFP. Thanks for the link!

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#2066103 - 04/17/13 04:50 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
JFP Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1317
Loc: The Netherlands
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=FoKf-Nno_Fo

And another one - that also demonstrates the difference between the old triple strike and the new steinway. Recorded on the mic, but nevertheless you can hear the difference. Closes the discussion about re-using the old samples or not IMHO.

Sidenote: funny enough he talks about noticeable improvements in the low and high register; not mentioning the mid register. That region is for some people where they disliked the triple sound as I understood so far. For sure a coincidence - but it caught my attention..

Some online stores list the Artis already as available soon and pre-order now . I understood "soon" is at the end of 2013 or later, so seems a little bit premature unless Kurzweil can (for the first time ;-) speed up the development and shipment.

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#2066372 - 04/18/13 04:58 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
thomsurf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 151
Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
I agree. September is a long wait. I don't understand why they're annoucing the Artis already. A Summer NAMM presentation would make more sense. Still, it's a very interesting DP! As of now - I want one!
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Roland RD800, JBL PRX612M.

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#2066375 - 04/18/13 05:24 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2321
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Yes sounds much better than before. I take back my criticism!
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#2066455 - 04/18/13 09:32 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: thomsurf]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1706
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: thomsurf
I agree. September is a long wait. I don't understand why they're annoucing the Artis already.!


The smaller companies do that a bit ....
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"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
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#2066564 - 04/18/13 01:55 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
Clayman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 300
Loc: Prague, Czech Rep.
Yes, that does sound a fair bit better than the first demo. I'm sure the new Artis will find its customers and maybe attract a new crowd with these nice updates.
_________________________
-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown

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#2066639 - 04/18/13 04:14 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: JFP]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4264
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Beefcake! BEEFCAKE!!


So Dave Weiser:

1. Is the Artis stretched and/or looped? If so, why?
2. Are pedal / key sympathetic resonances implemented? If so, how?
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#2066911 - 04/19/13 04:42 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
JFP Online   content
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUFnuH...p;v=Wnqde1DA2TA

New AP from around 1:30 ~ followed by the old triple I guess...

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#2071913 - 04/27/13 01:42 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: JFP]
thomsurf Offline
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Don't think this one has been posted:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg-BypJ0mCA

I wish we would get some official comments regarding the questions concerning adjustemt of pedal noise, sym resonance, duplex , hammer noise etc.

Did Kurz go down some of these paths with the Artis?
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#2072318 - 04/27/13 06:00 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: dewster]
dewster Offline
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Originally Posted By: dewster
So Dave Weiser:

*crickets*

Rep shows up out of the blue to promote a product then completely ignores someone wanting to know something about said product. Were my questions too technical? Or is PW too much of a backwater full of hicks for the big boys to care about?
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#2072331 - 04/27/13 06:16 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: Dave Weiser]
LesCharles73 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dave Weiser

For more updates on the Artis, pop over to the Keyboard Corner forum, where I'll be posting/reading a bit more frequently.

As always, if anyone has a pressing Kurz-related issue, feel free to shoot me an email. dave@ycrdi.com

Dave Weiser
Kurzweil R&D


I checked out the thread on Keyboard Corner and it hasn't been active in a while, and I don't think these questions have been answered there but Dave does seem to hang out there and he has provided his contact info.
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#2121842 - 07/23/13 09:29 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
JFP Online   content
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Seeing the demise of Infinite Response and VAX; is Kurzweil still alive ? No mention of the Artis anywhere since the Musik Messe. Promised sound demo's are completely absent, as is any mention of the product on the Kurzweil site(s). Since the most prominent Kurzweil advocate Dave Weiser seems to have jumped ship a while ago, I wonder if we'll see a similar website tag as on the Infinite Response site anytime soon ???

Hope not, but what's cooking ?

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#2122198 - 07/24/13 07:41 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: JFP]
BeowulfX Offline
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Originally Posted By: JFP
Seeing the demise of Infinite Response and VAX; is Kurzweil still alive ? No mention of the Artis anywhere since the Musik Messe. Promised sound demo's are completely absent, as is any mention of the product on the Kurzweil site(s). Since the most prominent Kurzweil advocate Dave Weiser seems to have jumped ship a while ago, I wonder if we'll see a similar website tag as on the Infinite Response site anytime soon ???

Hope not, but what's cooking ?



Waiting for any update(s) too about the Kurzweil Artis but Google search only results to no new ones other than previous NAMM 2013 a few months ago...
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Contemplating on: Yamaha MOXF6, Korg Kronos X61 or Roland FA-06

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#2122224 - 07/24/13 09:12 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
Kawai James Online   content
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Have you chaps onsidered contacting Kurzweil to enquire about the latest information regarding availability?

Cheers,
James
x
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#2122233 - 07/24/13 09:49 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
JFP Online   content
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You crossed me with that question ; I did today. I understand what you mean; creating a stir without contacting the company first is sort of....

When they (Kurzweil) provide more info, I'll post it.

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#2122240 - 07/24/13 10:01 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: dewster]
Mike_Martin Offline
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Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: dewster
So Dave Weiser:

*crickets*

Rep shows up out of the blue to promote a product then completely ignores someone wanting to know something about said product. Were my questions too technical? Or is PW too much of a backwater full of hicks for the big boys to care about?


Dave is no longer with Kurzweil.

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#2122335 - 07/24/13 01:20 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: Mike_Martin]
Big McLargehuge Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mike_Martin
Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: dewster
So Dave Weiser:

*crickets*

Rep shows up out of the blue to promote a product then completely ignores someone wanting to know something about said product. Were my questions too technical? Or is PW too much of a backwater full of hicks for the big boys to care about?


Dave is no longer with Kurzweil.


Exactly, was going to post this. Now, one could call that in itself a cause for concern, though I have no idea why he left! smile All I know is I love my pc3 and more choices in pro gear is a great thing, so I hope Kurzweil gets it going. Dave answered several of my questions about my pc3 on different forums and they'll have to go far to replace that level of involvement IMO. It was a big reason why I made my purchase. I'd say the same thing about Mike Martin just above me based on his involvement with Casio stuff smile

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#2122349 - 07/24/13 02:01 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: Big McLargehuge]
Dave Ferris Offline
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My Nord Piano 2 is doing the job well enough currently, but definitely looking forward to checking this out when it hits.

I do wish they would've went with the same Fatar TP40L action as on the flagship PC3X/PC3K8. I'd feel a lot better about it. Didn't dig the action on their newest SP5-8 when I played it at NAMM. I hope it's different then that.

Yeah, it's weird there's no info up on their site months after it was announced. confused
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#2122390 - 07/24/13 03:39 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
LesCharles73 Offline
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It appears that Dave has started his own company, DW Consulting.
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#2130575 - 08/10/13 12:19 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: LesCharles73]
Dave Ferris Offline
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It appears to be available. I'd still like to play it first to see how the Fatar TP100 action interacts with the new piano sample.
http://kurzweil.com/news/51/

Same weight & length as the CP50 fwiw. 46 Lbs. & 54.5 " wide. 2"s deeper then the CP50 at 15.5" .

For quick comparison-my Nord Piano 2 comes in at 40.3 lbs & 50.7" wide, 13.4" on the depth.
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#2130601 - 08/10/13 02:48 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
JFP Online   content
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3 sensor keybed ??? Aftertouch ?

€ 1199,- in The shop. Resonable price. Don't think it has any resonance effects though (string resonance, sympathic resonance). Only a damper resonance sample; which isn't the same as dynamic resonance processing algorithms. I don't understand the weight actually, most Fatar boards with tp100 are much less kilograms.


Edited by JFP (08/10/13 09:15 AM)

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#2131568 - 08/12/13 07:22 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: JFP]
BeowulfX Offline
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With the same hammer action keyboard (TP100)as the SP4-8, hopefully this will be relatively better than the LK40GH action used in their SPS4-8 and SP-5 -- which I didn't personally like when I tried playing these latter two

So the Artis supports half-damper pedalling...this gives it an advantage over the PX-5S Pro in this aspect:

The specs page of the Artis states:
"2 switch pedal inputs, each supporting single or dual, switch or half-damper* pedals (1 switch/sustain pedal is included)...(*for MIDI controller functionality only)"

But only 256 programs (?) as opposed to the lower SP5-8 which has over a 800+ factory presets shocked ...Did the new piano samples eat up much of the ROM space?

I wonder how much polyphony will the new piano samples of the Artis take up from the 128-note currently available and will this leave enough room to layer 3 other sounds?

The EQ knobs: these are not listed as "programmable/assignable". It would have been nice if these can be configured to function as knobs for LFO, Reso etc. as well cool

And yup, no AT and no mention of a 3-sensor keybed frown

And no mention if the ARTIS transmits high-res MIDI too...

But hey, it seems the long-standing complaint on Kurzweil boards is the lack of a better, updated piano sound -- hopefully this bridges the gap and puts it at par with some of the better DPs out there if not the flagship DP models of other manufacturers, that is...


Edited by BeowulfX (08/13/13 12:21 PM)
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#2132726 - 08/14/13 10:27 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
karlosserio Offline
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Any new video releases on the Artis?

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#2132828 - 08/14/13 02:11 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
JFP Online   content
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Yup; to sum up some observations made here :

- No 3 sensors, despite the fact that more recent FATAR keybeds DO come with three sensors (Numa Concert / Physis Piano...)
- No aftertouch, despite the fact that most TP100 based boards DO feature aftertouch (Numa Nano, Acuna 88 ...)
- A Kurzweil with knobs instead of only faders , but strangely enough not programmable , like for cutoff , but only fixed master EQ
- over 20 KG, despite the fact that most other TP100 based boards are much lighter (Numa Nano, Numa Piano...)
- Only new feature here is one (ONE!) new sample set for the grand piano preset. That's all folks. The rest is a stripped down version of the PC3 + Kore64 series in all respects ; sound-wise, control-wise, routing and programming wise etc
- Engine and processing seems to be a continuation of what Kurzweil has been using for years now; 128 polyphony Kurzweil chipset, with most probably the same memory slots as can be found in the PC3 series (no gigabytes of memory addressing) , same KDFX unit, KB3 organ etc. Not bad , but a bit dated.
- there are no good sound demo's (yet); the current online demo's make no sense if you want to show off your new grand piano .

All in all , considering the price, it still seems to be a nice product, but IMHO it could have been better with just a few tweaks , like programmable knobs, aftertouch and 3rd sensor as mentioned above. Wouldn't' have cost the world. What I dont understand is why they didn't bring out another PC3 model, keeping all the good stuff, throwing in the new grand preset, replace the heavy TP40 with the TP100 and be done with it. No stripping down of features required...

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#2132835 - 08/14/13 02:49 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: JFP]
anotherscott Offline
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Originally Posted By: JFP
- No 3 sensors, despite the fact that more recent FATAR keybeds DO come with three sensors (Numa Concert / Physis Piano...)

I don't think TP100 is available with three sensors, only their heavier boards.

Originally Posted By: JFP
No aftertouch, despite the fact that most TP100 based boards DO feature aftertouch (Numa Nano, Acuna 88 ...)

TP100 from Studiologic (Numa, Acuna, all the same company as Fatar) has AT. TP100 from Nord and Kurzweil don't. I don't know if it's a cost decision, or whether Fatar might not offer it outside their own brands. It's a bit curious that no aftertouch option is mentioned on Fatar's TP100 page
http://www.fatar.com/pages/TP100LR.html
Every other model of Fatar piano action lists AT as an option... but not the TP100. It's not impossible that they may be reserving that as a competitive advantage for their house brands.

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#2133077 - 08/14/13 10:34 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: LesCharles73]
Charles Cohen Offline
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FWIW --

From the Kurzweil website:

Quote:
The centerpiece of the Artis Stage piano is an entirely new German 9' grand piano sound offering a level of sound quality and playability that raises the bar for stage pianos in this price range.


Two clauses here:

. . . It's a new sample set, not a re-work.

. . . It raises the bar for stage pianos in this price range.

Not "It makes obsolete all our current models". Just "it's better than other $2,200 DP's".

I await the DPBSD test . . . <g>

. Charles

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#2133125 - 08/15/13 01:42 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
JFP Online   content
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Nobody said here that the piano is a rework. It's just that that one piano sound is the ONLY really new feature, the rest the same meat in a different package (and less). Bit underwhelming after 5 years of waiting for a new KRZ with fresh sounds. Don't care abou the price range; it simply could have been been more interesting , e.g. if it was only 15kg or less, like the other TP100 based boards. Hope they have more in the pipeline soon (not another 3 years off). Anyway for this price it will find its way into a few gigging hands and does its tricks with pride.

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#2133171 - 08/15/13 06:29 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
EssBrace Offline
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I think Kurzweil is being squeezed out by the big boys. Like Korg (but for slightly different reasons).

Kurzweil brings nothing unique to the table. So-so key action. Yes, new piano sample but I'd urge people not to get excited about that. Everything is unremarkable. Support and service is scary because Kurzweil is starting to look like a company on the brink of oblivion (like General Music before it).

The big boys have it sewn-up. Roland's pianos and the Fantom. Kawai's key actions and homely image as upright piano substitutes (CA series). Yamaha's ubiquity (universal accessibility and acceptance).

The only apparently successful manufacturer that is a bit niche is Nord - and they bring a whole load of USPs to the table and so they deserve that success.

I mean, why buy Kurzweil? Why?
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#2133202 - 08/15/13 08:13 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: EssBrace]
pv88 Offline
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Originally Posted By: EssBrace
I mean, why buy Kurzweil? Why?


+1 - there are many other better choices.

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#2134143 - 08/17/13 12:29 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: EssBrace]
LesCharles73 Offline
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Originally Posted By: EssBrace
I mean, why buy Kurzweil? Why?


I'm not sure on the Digital Piano front, but their VAST workstations kick some major sonic butt - even today. For people who really dive in to the architecture of sound manipulation, there are still plenty of reasons to buy a Kurzweil.
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#2134258 - 08/17/13 09:07 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: LesCharles73]
karlosserio Offline
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I'll be waiting for some hands-on reviews.
The specs don't make or brake a keyboard, and in the case of Kurzweil I respect the programming that they put into the sounds.
My faithful PC2R still gets a lot of "Wows!" when playing live.

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#2134276 - 08/17/13 09:49 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
Big McLargehuge Offline
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Never been so happy with a board as I am with my pc361. I bought it instead of a clonewheel; not saying the organ beats the various clonewheels but it's very good, and it handles all my piano/EP/VA sounds very well. I don't really like the actions on their weighted boards though, right now I drive the pc361 sounds from a weighted Studiologic controller.

I paid $999 used, and I don't think the big guys have anything (used or otherwise) that compare to it in that price bracket. Again organ is the thing that sets it apart. None of the Korg or Yamahas have a decent organ. I do like the Roland Vr700, if I'd seen one at the time for that price I may have gotten one. It can't do the synths or programming of the pc3 though. Also considered a nord electro 3 used, but it only does one sound at a time, I didn't like the action at all, and it was a good 300 more to boot.

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#2134304 - 08/17/13 10:55 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: EssBrace]
anotherscott Offline
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Originally Posted By: EssBrace
I mean, why buy Kurzweil? Why?

Strictly as a piano, you might have a case (at least prior to the Artis, which I haven't heard). But as an overall multi-function keyboard (workstation/rompler), if you can deal with their weight, they are high value boards. Great sounds, very flexible. If you want a rompler with a "virtual analog" component and a "clonewheel" component, Yamaha has none, Korg has nothing below the price of the Kronos. If you want aftertouch, you have to look at a $2500+ model from Korg or Yamaha, they don't put that feature on their lower end workstations, but Kurzweil does. They are also at the top for functionality as a MIDI controller.

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#2134438 - 08/17/13 04:49 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
EssBrace Offline
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I get the synth stuff and orchestral sounds but as a piano.....no.
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#2134456 - 08/17/13 05:41 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: EssBrace]
LesCharles73 Offline
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Originally Posted By: EssBrace
I get the synth stuff and orchestral sounds but as a piano.....no.


I tend to agree with that. Hopefully the Artis is only the beginning of new things for Kurz.
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#2134470 - 08/17/13 05:59 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
EssBrace Offline
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Yes I agree. More choice is good. Nord does niche and does it very well. I hope Kurzweil can do the same.
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#2135134 - 08/19/13 12:35 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: JFP]
John_In_Montreal Offline
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Originally Posted By: JFP
Untill
Originally Posted By: Dave B
I'm hoping it interfaces with computers etc.


Until now they always did. The PC3 series quite well actually (USB); with a nice editor as a bonus.


Yep! I love my PC3X that I got last spring although I still enjoy the ole faithful K2500XS too :), but not necessarily for its piano sounds anymore eek



John
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#2135185 - 08/19/13 05:15 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: JFP]
BeowulfX Offline
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Originally Posted By: JFP
What I dont understand is why they didn't bring out another PC3 model, keeping all the good stuff, throwing in the new grand preset, replace the heavy TP40 with the TP100 and be done with it. No stripping down of features required...


Who knows though?...they might just be planning on doing that for the next incarnation of their workstation boards or "PC4K" (or however they would like to call 'em).

Regarding my 1st ever encounter with an actual Kurzweil Artis unit:

I was able to try out recently the Kurzweil Artis at a recent business/electronics expo here in Southeast Asia (Philippines) - albeit only for roughly 10-15 minutes. However, the Kurzweil booth was placed near other electronics-audio booths which were playing loud background hip-hop music I could hardly appreciate the new piano sound of the Artis mad I was literally almost bending my knees and crouching a bit while playing just so I'd be able to hear the sound of the piano from the monitors below. While there were a few seconds of silence and respite from the loud music from the surrounding booths, I was able top play the PC3K8 located right next to the Artis. I can only "generically" say that the piano sound of the Artis did sound "fuller"/"richer" than the PC3K8...I forgot the presets but these were either the default 1st preset of the piano category button. I may need to have a second try once the lone demo unit is brought back to their showroom-shop here one of these days.

As if to make matters worse, the rather worn-out "monitor speakers" placed below the Artis were badly distorting the sounds and were rattling when I was playing some passages (Un Sospiro) at the higher registers of the stage piano...I couldn't quite make out the brand of these molded loudspeakers (used as monitors) as the brand label had almost faded. Add to that they only have a Kurzweil footswitch (a KP3 I think) which didn't give me the chance to check the half-damper pedalling (not that I'd probably be able to appreciate it fully with the noise from the other booths).

Regarding the TP100 key-mechanism of the Artis:

I could have sworn that the "feel" was slightly heavier than the PC3K8. I wouldn't say they're sluggish or slow but the "heavy" feel of the TP100 reminded me of my PX-320 when I first got and played it brand new (back when the keys were still "tight"/heavy...now the keys of my PX-320 are a little loose). And I thought the higher registers/keys of the Artis were almost of the same weight/feel as the lower registers/keys. I could be wrong but I really would need a longer time to try it out again. The finish of the keys are not "shiny" plastic but slightly dull -- but definitely not like the Ivory-feel keys of the Roland RD-700NX nor the texture of the keys of the PX-350.

Regarding some of the build, features and physical attributes of the Artis:

At 46 lbs, these are still relatively on the heavier side. There's an aluminum (I think...but I may be wrong) accent on top of the keybed (brushed aluminum or chrome plated?). The side panels aren't wooden like the PC3K. I was feeling the sides and couldn't determine whether it was high-impact black plastic with a brushed texture (or perhaps it can also be brush aluminum?). Build quality though is sturdy and good. Didn't encounter any flimsy keys (side-to-side movement), the knobs weren't wobbly, sliders felt same as the PC3/K series.

Only MIDI In and OUT and no THRU. No ribbon controller input like the PC3/K series.

A quick tinkering showed the menu-driven UI with the familiar tabs-pages similar to the PC3/K series...and yup, only 4 zones on the Artis (and just as was stated in its specs in their website). MIDI controls are extensive just as their PC3/K series. Now there are buttons through which you can assign your favorite programs (presets) right below the panel screen.

Tinkering with the category buttons and the rotary wheel, there's only 256 programs (presets) but the bread n butter sounds are covered (like strings, brass, pads, EPs).

Now if only the Kurzweil booth and personnel weren't preparing for the upcoming jam with a local band that will be using the PC3K7 (as 2nd tier) over the Kurzweil Artis to showcase the new stage piano -- I would have been able to tinker and play/try the KB3 and other preset/programs longer.

Regarding the local price of the Kurzweil Artis here:

I'll give this board another try before I decide whether I'd go for it (or the RD-700NX and even the PX-5S). Local price of the Kurzweil Artis here is currently set at P125,000 which converts to $2,906 (USD)...this local retail price is actually higher than what Dave Weiser in another forum mentioned a couple of months ago(which I believe was $2,195? USD) For comparison, the RD-700NX here costs P129,950 which converts to $3022 (USD). Both the RD-700NX and Kurzweil Artis are thus priced closely here so I'm gonna need to try out the Artis longer the 2nd time around and revisit the RD-700NX and hope I could also try out a PX-5S before pulling the trigger on a new weighted 88-key keyboard/stage-piano.

I suspect that if the Artis would really be priced at $2195 here (and not at the higher converted price of $2,906), local professional musicians might consider/adapt the Artis over the RD-700NX. For further comparison, the PX-5S here actually costs P67,995 which converts to $1,581 shocked this means the local price here has a $500 mark up than the current $999 (USD) pricing in the U.S. That's within the vicinity of the U.S. price of the RD-300NX already. confused

Regarding availability of Kurzweil Artis units:

I was told that the first few stocks of the Artis would be locally available sometime in October though. The sales rep was suggesting I make an early reservation but I told him I'm gonna need to try out the board again one of these days after the expo so I can hear all the other presets and FX in their product showroom which will be a lot quieter than the venue of the expo.



Edited by BeowulfX (08/19/13 06:43 AM)
_________________________
PX-5S PC361 PX-320 Graphite 49 Pianoteq 4.5-Standard+Bluethner EWQL Symphonic Orchestra & some additional VSTi X1222FX B1030A KS40A DAW: AMD PhIIx4 16GB DDR3 1TB+1TB+120GB-SSD Audiobox E-MU XMIDI 2x2 Sonar 8 Pearl Acoustic Drumset
Contemplating on: Yamaha MOXF6, Korg Kronos X61 or Roland FA-06

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#2140136 - 08/28/13 09:37 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: BeowulfX]
Marko in Boston Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 589
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts

Kurzweil Artis - Full Demonstration Video


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#2140325 - 08/28/13 04:24 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis... [Re: HwyStar]
JFP Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1317
Loc: The Netherlands
Thanks. For the price of around € 1100 (with regular discounts) , it's a versatile board with a lot of very usable sounds. Yes , most sounds are the usual Kurzweil suspects , but they simply work in a live setup. Especially now that one of the major 'over-aged' culprits has been taken out: the AP. Only drawbacks are: TP100 - how playable is it really and the weight ; really expected it to be lighter with a TP100 for a choice. The Casio's rule in that respect with their good keybed in a 11kg package. Soundwise the Kurz seems to deliver better basic sounds however old some of them are. And a more sturdy construction; wheels , knobs and sliders and even display - it all looks a bit more professional. Missing factors compared to the PX5 are arpeggiators and stuff like that, in case you need them. Price is roughly the same € 999 vs € 1100.

Now , let the race begin. Full featured lightweight package with good and fast keyed and reasonable to good sounds (PX5) vs bit more simplistic stage piano with good basic sounds and an inferior (?) keybed in a much heavier , but more sturdy/pro casing. It's just where your priorities are.

In other countries prices may be different, making the match less equal.


Edited by JFP (08/28/13 04:25 PM)

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