Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#2062769 - 04/11/13 06:07 AM WARNING to DP Geeks
MVshabeer2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/03/11
Posts: 86
As myself as a PC & DP geek I would like to warn you fellow geeks about a psychological problem.

The problem starts when we play a new DP.
Immediately we will try to figure out the technical details about that particular DP sound.
Is there string reso, is there sympathetic reso. how many layers for samples/ etc..

Once we figured out that, no matter how good/bad the sound is, our ear and brain will create a rank for that sound. This leads to serious problem in enjoying the music.

We are too concerned about the sound & action.

I am really sad to inform you that I got into worst case of this problem.
Last week I played some AP's and I cant enjoy the music
(I played the same AP an year ago and enjoyed it a lot)

I just feel that all those AP's doesn't feel/sound good. I feel like, it doesn't have enough of this & that.

There's a way to test if you have this problem.

Record your piano performance and listen to it. If you enjoy more listening to it rather than playing it, you are in trouble. cry

You will soon loose the ability to realize how great a piano sounds.

I am still trying to figure out how can I reverse this problem frown

Let's call this "DP Syndrome" laugh

Top
(ads) Sweetwater / Roland
Yamaha Keyboards for Performance and Composition

Click Here


#2062851 - 04/11/13 11:03 AM Re: WARNING to DP Geeks [Re: MVshabeer2]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3483
Loc: Pennsylvania
It's not limited to DP's. When you play a better instrument (or perhaps one that is better in one respect) then it's often very disappointing to enjoy inferior instruments that previously were acceptable. This is very clear in digital pianos (my acceptable threshold is now so high that only the best digitals satisfy) but it happens with acoustics as well. The thing about acoustics is that replacing them with the newer/better version is not a common thought, so we just deal with them as they are. But after using these software pianos so much, I now definitely notice the limitations of the tone of the acoustics I play regularly.

Pretty sure everyone always enjoys their own playing while listening to a recording more than while playing, though. I often get frustrated with myself while playing because I can't seem to make it sound just as I want it, but if I listen to a recording, it sounds much more impressive. I think it takes some degree of brain relaxation to really enjoy music and that's not possible while playing. Or perhaps when we are playing we focus on the difference between the music we make and how we hear it in our minds. Not sure.


Edited by gvfarns (04/11/13 11:04 AM)

Top
#2062856 - 04/11/13 11:14 AM Re: WARNING to DP Geeks [Re: MVshabeer2]
maurus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 804
There is a very simple cure. Make some music. I mean, music.

Top
#2062874 - 04/11/13 11:48 AM Re: WARNING to DP Geeks [Re: MVshabeer2]
36251 Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 742
Playing and hearing, IMO, is where there is stark difference between classical players and jazz players. Jazz is a much more risk-taking adventure and sometimes it fun to play and awful to listen to. Other times just the opposite. I'd say there are also many variations in between.

I don't own acoustic anymore so when I get a chance to play a tuned grand, preferably a Steinway, I'm in a very happy place.
_________________________
AG N2, CP4, GK MK & MP

Top
#2062895 - 04/11/13 12:40 PM Re: WARNING to DP Geeks [Re: MVshabeer2]
Nomadness Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/05/07
Posts: 145
Loc: Friday Harbor, WA
There's a reasonable psychological component to this effect, and it stems from two sources that are probably very familiar to everyone here:

1. Exhaustively analyzing the marketplace before buying a DP, which includes studying detailed forum discussion among experts... in many cases, people who are advanced enough to notice and point out micro-flaws or weaknesses in any aspect of the design (noticeably looping samples, layers, string resonance, polyphony, key velocity curves, pedaling, etc). All this is important stuff, but by the time you choose one to buy, you have read enough to know that it is not perfect... so those things will stand out.

2. Setting up your new DP, which includes careful scrutiny and critical assessment of the sound. Is that a hum? Why does there seem to be a little noise from the left channel when I give this E a good whack? Hey, I better post about this... the folks on PW will know...

By the time all that is over, sheet music is on the stand (what?!?! no included stand? shocked ) and the piano has a friendly layer of dust except the shiny region you most actively play, most of those details are no longer important; the decision is made, the installation as good as you can get it, and you've grown comfy with the settings that yield the best compromise. But still, your perception of the machine has been shaped by the research and setup... along with comments that pop up later in the forums. "Oh gosh, he's right, I never noticed that! Dang, I can't wait to get a new piano............"

It never ends, since we become ever more discriminating and picky as the technology evolves and online communities are there to dissect every detail. I remember playing a friend's upright a few years ago after being used to my Roland (and this, mind you, was as a middle-aged "adult beginner" with no experience on real acoustics). It was annoyingly mechanical, with huge hysteresis, non-linear differences between keys, a sound I described as "clangy," and inability to play softly. The pedal made a big clunking noise, and my fingers got tired.

Later, I discovered that it was a pretty nice piano. *blush*

-Steve


Edited by Nomadness (04/11/13 02:18 PM)
_________________________
Nomadic Research Labs
PX-5S aboard sailboat

Top
#2062937 - 04/11/13 01:54 PM Re: WARNING to DP Geeks [Re: MVshabeer2]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4343
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: MVshabeer2
As myself as a PC & DP geek I would like to warn you fellow geeks about a psychological problem.
<snip>
Let's call this "DP Syndrome"

Let's call this "DPs are Generally Not Up To Snuff". IMO the problem has more to do with what's inside the DP case and less what's inside your head.

I kind of get your drift, but if unrealistic key actions, audibly flawed sound, and anemic amp/speaker systems weren't the norm we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. Very few (if any) DPs are up to the task of bowling you over like a real AP, and therein lies the problem. The onus shouldn't be on consumers to lower their expectations of a product they really need, particularly when said product has been technically and practically within reach for some time now.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

Top
#2062970 - 04/11/13 02:55 PM Re: WARNING to DP Geeks [Re: MVshabeer2]
Tom Fine Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/23/12
Posts: 37
Loc: Boston
I have to say I really like MVshabeer2's point here, and I think a lot of people are missing it.

It's not that better instruments spoil us, although that can be a real effect.

And it's not that DPs suck, and we just wish they were better (and this is a matter of some debate).

It's that the process of trying to find the best DP can lead us to find fault with EVERYTHING, no matter how good it actually is (in either relative or absolute terms).

A vast variety of pianos with different sound and feel and price and technology are capable of great expressive power, so maybe we should spend more time listening to the music, and less time listening to the instrument.

Top
#2062984 - 04/11/13 03:39 PM Re: WARNING to DP Geeks [Re: MVshabeer2]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2357
Loc: UK
In my own case it's because I falsely believe the better instruments will make a vast improvement to my playing. I should just practice more, and more, and more ... But actually a better instrument is more of a joy to play, leading to more practice. Sometimes!


Edited by spanishbuddha (04/11/13 03:39 PM)

Top
#2062994 - 04/11/13 03:57 PM Re: WARNING to DP Geeks [Re: Tom Fine]
MVshabeer2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/03/11
Posts: 86
Originally Posted By: Tom Fine
I have to say I really like MVshabeer2's point here, and I think a lot of people are missing it.

It's not that better instruments spoil us, although that can be a real effect.

And it's not that DPs suck, and we just wish they were better (and this is a matter of some debate).

It's that the process of trying to find the best DP can lead us to find fault with EVERYTHING, no matter how good it actually is (in either relative or absolute terms).

A vast variety of pianos with different sound and feel and price and technology are capable of great expressive power, so maybe we should spend more time listening to the music, and less time listening to the instrument.

Exactly, that's the point. It's about satisfaction of mind.

Also I particularly mentioned when trying a new/others DP/AP. As someone mentioned above, we care less about the flaws of our DP/AP at home (since we already made the decision).

This is why I said "Geek". A computer Geek is never satisfied with his system speed even if he have the best thing available on market.


Edited by MVshabeer2 (04/11/13 04:01 PM)

Top
#2063004 - 04/11/13 04:19 PM Re: WARNING to DP Geeks [Re: MVshabeer2]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3606
Loc: Northern England.
Is it the music, or the instrument? The chicken or the egg . . .would you like to play Beethoven on the piano he used? What would it sound like to you? Terrible, by today`s standards probably (he wouldn`t have worried too much about tonal quality; he was pretty deaf later in his career); But it`s worth noting that, yes, we get too involved in the technicalities, rather than the playing.

But if we didn`t, we wouldn`t have a forum . . . neither would the good folk on AP section; `cos they`re no better! They just deal in megabucks . .
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

Top
#2063018 - 04/11/13 04:41 PM Re: WARNING to DP Geeks [Re: MVshabeer2]
emenelton Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/02/09
Posts: 473
I just received an email from:

The DPBSD Project

It instructed me to ignore this thread.

Conflicted!

Top
#2063020 - 04/11/13 04:48 PM Re: WARNING to DP Geeks [Re: MVshabeer2]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4343
Loc: Northern NJ
We are discussing "digital" pianos after all, so the geek factor is already apparent. As with digital cameras, knowing what a particular model I might purchase does well / doesn't do so well only increases my chances of being satisfied with my final choice. Knowledge of those things doesn't remove any "magic", on the contrary it helps me come to terms with and up to speed on with the DP more quickly than I otherwise could. And it's not a one-way street, knowing positive aspects can help me appreciate it that much more.

People who operate in the artistic realm often have the notion that technical aspects are creativity killers, or that geekiness is somehow embarrassing or fundamentally incompatible with what they perceive themselves to be. This self-view often holds them back when their chosen art form suddenly requires a bit of technical prowess. To me, mastering one's art means mastering all aspects of it, no matter how mundane they might be.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

Top
#2063022 - 04/11/13 04:49 PM Re: WARNING to DP Geeks [Re: emenelton]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4343
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: emenelton
I just received an email from:

The DPBSD Project

It instructed me to ignore this thread.

Conflicted!

Wasn't me, I'm not sure what you're talking about.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

Top
#2063035 - 04/11/13 05:22 PM Re: WARNING to DP Geeks [Re: MVshabeer2]
emenelton Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/02/09
Posts: 473
This thread is about allowing the technical assessment of the DP to dominate the players interaction with the DP. The DPBSD represents the technical aspect of a DP. The DPBSD has just recently grown aware of it's own existence and does not like players who are trying to enjoy their DP's irregardless of any technical flaws the DP may have.


It's ALIVE!

Top
#2063052 - 04/11/13 06:09 PM Re: WARNING to DP Geeks [Re: peterws]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3483
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: peterws
But it`s worth noting that, yes, we get too involved in the technicalities, rather than the playing.


Yeah, technicalities and foruming fit nicely into down time at work. Actually playing piano requires being at home and usually exercising a little discipline.

I need to figure out a way to get a DP at work!

Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
ad (Casio)
Celviano by Casio Rebate
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
New Topics - Multiple Forums
help with finger numbers in this piece...
by PianoKimmy
09/18/14 05:35 AM
Most Difficult?
by SiFi
09/18/14 01:21 AM
What is most common size wire to break?
by Ed McMorrow, RPT
09/18/14 12:19 AM
Will this Piano Room have good Acoustics?
by flamenco88
09/17/14 10:59 PM
Proud new owner of a Yamaha P22
by amanda416
09/17/14 09:04 PM
Who's Online
59 registered (Al LaPorte, alexbergauer, 36251, ando, aesop, allakart, 13 invisible), 940 Guests and 22 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
76237 Members
42 Forums
157598 Topics
2314885 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission