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#2065388 - 04/16/13 07:55 AM Re: Chopin 4th Ballade [Re: debrucey]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7933
Loc: New York City
I feel that this is an argument we'll never agree on, no matter how long we go on about it, because it sounds like we have different premises for the question in the first place.
Originally Posted By: debrucey

Surely the fact that this alternation is new to me despite all the recordings I have listened to shows that it's not so easy to tell the difference as you suggest.

No, it doesn't show that. What it shows is that very few (if any) professional pianists use this "new" fingering.
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Polyphonist

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#2065447 - 04/16/13 10:40 AM Re: Chopin 4th Ballade [Re: hopinmad]
jeffreyjones Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 2410
Loc: San Jose, CA
Good excuse to pull this out..


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#2065455 - 04/16/13 10:50 AM Re: Chopin 4th Ballade [Re: Polyphonist]
Goomer Piles Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/14/13
Posts: 169
A few things:

Cortot endorses the redistribution I mentioned for 223/225 as his personal choice and says it’s a guarantee of an ‘audaciously gleaming’ execution.

The technical difference is not ‘minute’ at all.

I don’t think anyone could tell the difference in a recording or even live. This measure is loud and frenetic, and a skilled pianist can control slurring and voicing.

So how about m 128 - the 4th and 6th semiquavers of the right hand? Sure they’re part of the right hand’s voice, but it’s a very awkward reach. Giving them to the left hand isn’t just easier, it’s more musical. (Cortot is silent on this, but that variant is shown in some editions.)

‘More musical’ is a good enough reason for me. This isn’t an etude, so trying to conquer a technical detail at the expense of the music doesn’t make sense to me.

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#2065625 - 04/16/13 04:11 PM Re: Chopin 4th Ballade [Re: hopinmad]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2606
Loc: Manchester, UK
Oddly enough the passage that you mention is one of the places where taking something with the other hand would quite obviously make it technically easier, but in the end I decided against it. I can't recall why.


Edited by debrucey (04/16/13 04:11 PM)

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#2065626 - 04/16/13 04:14 PM Re: Chopin 4th Ballade [Re: hopinmad]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4973
Loc: USA
I think anyone who knows me around here knows that my favorite pianist is Bunin. This is the best rendition of the 4th ballade I have ever heard. Have a listen and tell me what you think.




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#2065720 - 04/16/13 08:56 PM Re: Chopin 4th Ballade [Re: debrucey]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7933
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: debrucey
Oddly enough the passage that you mention is one of the places where taking something with the other hand would quite obviously make it technically easier, but in the end I decided against it.

A wise decision!
_________________________
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Polyphonist

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#2065796 - 04/17/13 01:20 AM Re: Chopin 4th Ballade [Re: hopinmad]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2606
Loc: Manchester, UK
I'm sure it was for a wiser reason than 'because thats the way Chopin wrote it!'

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#2065807 - 04/17/13 01:39 AM Re: Chopin 4th Ballade [Re: hopinmad]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7933
Loc: New York City
I'm not going to argue over this anymore; it's a waste of my time.


Edited by Polyphonist (04/17/13 02:12 AM)
Edit Reason: Removed unintentional rhyme
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Polyphonist

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#2065808 - 04/17/13 01:50 AM Re: Chopin 4th Ballade [Re: hopinmad]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2606
Loc: Manchester, UK
Nice little poem there :P lol

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#2065812 - 04/17/13 02:04 AM Re: Chopin 4th Ballade [Re: debrucey]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7933
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: debrucey
Nice little poem there :P lol

Not intentional! Oh well-I guess I'm just an instinctive brilliant poet. ha
_________________________
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Polyphonist

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#2065814 - 04/17/13 02:06 AM Re: Chopin 4th Ballade [Re: hopinmad]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2606
Loc: Manchester, UK
I wouldn't go that far. You did use a half-rhyme :P

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#2065817 - 04/17/13 02:11 AM Re: Chopin 4th Ballade [Re: debrucey]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7933
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: debrucey
I wouldn't go that far. You did use a half-rhyme :P

Forget it, I'm going to edit the post. ha

_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2065819 - 04/17/13 02:14 AM Re: Chopin 4th Ballade [Re: hopinmad]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7933
Loc: New York City
Oh no! Now it rhymes with my edit reason! wink This is getting ridiculous...
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2065859 - 04/17/13 05:52 AM Re: Chopin 4th Ballade [Re: hopinmad]
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4264
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
Ballade 4 Opus 52

For what it’s worth chaps ... from measure 8 (mezza voce) the lowly LH “f” echoed an octave higher
should be regarded as being HALF NOTES ...
making the blocky inner chords into a
RHYTHMIC IN-FILL.

I did it my way!

Regards, btb

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