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#2062948 - 04/11/13 02:11 PM Upright shanks
Olek Offline
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Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 9230
Loc: France
An idea passed my mind , could it be an option , to use a few soft (low pitched) shanks on the few first notes of the long bridge ?

Seem to notice that on an upright I am working on ...
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#2062956 - 04/11/13 02:24 PM Re: Upright shanks [Re: Olek]
BDB Offline
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Why would it not be an option to use them?
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#2062987 - 04/11/13 03:44 PM Re: Upright shanks [Re: Olek]
Olek Offline
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Registered: 03/14/08
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Softer tone on the more problematic strings ?
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#2063089 - 04/11/13 07:36 PM Re: Upright shanks [Re: Olek]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
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Registered: 03/10/08
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If there is a significant problem there I suppose this could be tried out. Not sure it would work for every situation, as I believe the choice of hammer set would be the more important part of the equation.

One would have to have two of the same model to compare too I suspect.
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#2063210 - 04/11/13 11:57 PM Re: Upright shanks [Re: Olek]
Emmery Offline
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Loc: Niagara Region, On. Canada
There was a trend for some manufacturers in the past to use cedar shanks in the upper treble because they were lighter and stiffer so I'm sure there is some effect from the shanks make up.
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#2063222 - 04/12/13 12:22 AM Re: Upright shanks [Re: Olek]
BDB Offline
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Cedar shanks were lighter. They were used to change the touch, rather than the sound. There was never a big change in the sound at the point where the cedar shanks began. Certainly not as much as there is at a typical bass/tenor break, so different shanks are not likely to overcome problems with that break.

I am of the opinion that bad bass/tenor transitions are due mostly to big jumps in tension from one note to the next. The most effective remedy is rescaling.
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#2063324 - 04/12/13 07:12 AM Re: Upright shanks [Re: Olek]
Olek Offline
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Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 9230
Loc: France
Thanks for your points, the shank resilency may change a little the dynamics of the attack. Those shanks are lighter yes (I have also shanks in some sort of Kotibe, I did not thought of using them for the high treble, I am unsure it is a solution, but I will test, in case)

I seem to notice that 2 notes at the begin of the break have a lower and warmer resonance tone than the next. I have to mount back others to be sure it have been done purposely.

THe shank influence is peceptible in the attack mostly, but the attack creates a spectra so it modify the tone, sort of voicing.

The most resilient shanks I use in the first basses.

The shank scraping to even the resonance tone of the glued hammer shank, is a big help for voicing . As you can only lower the resonance tone (making the shank more supple) previous selection is helping more than generally considered.

The principle is to avoid assembly sounding higher than the next note up, but due to hammer mass you cannot really hear that before gluing .

It happens also that a shank is "bad" and produce a "broken" tone, the corresponding note is always weak.

I will let you know if any sensible result (the piano have no real break problem, an excellent scale , in fact)

greetings

I believe that sghank mass is no really a problem on uprights, resilency much more.

BTW I tried to relate the weight of my shanks with their pitch and it work only half way.

More heavy shanks suould pitch lower, but as we hear the resiliency of the shank driving pitch it does not works 100%







Edited by Olek (04/12/13 07:58 AM)
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#2063325 - 04/12/13 07:22 AM Re: Upright shanks [Re: BDB]
Olek Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 9230
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: BDB


I am of the opinion that bad bass/tenor transitions are due mostly to big jumps in tension from one note to the next. The most effective remedy is rescaling.


wire strain level "solicitation" progression curve is clearly evened also. The jump in tension is normal, up to some point, due to mass/lenght difference. then that solicitation parameter is something that help consistency (must go along with iH curve, possibly)
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I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!

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#2063331 - 04/12/13 08:07 AM Re: Upright shanks [Re: Olek]
Olek Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 9230
Loc: France
treble shanks can be thinned with a plane on uprights (an angle made on the front). I noticed that have been done on some.


Edited by Olek (04/12/13 08:07 AM)
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