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#2063708 - 04/12/13 09:02 PM Can you identify what this noise is when I press a key?
shaolin95 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/12/11
Posts: 476
Hello!
I just had the piano tech came over because the piano had some bad vibration issues that were not on the store also some thumping keys.
Well the vibration was due to a metal bar on the lower part of the fallboard...so she removed it saying that it was not really important....not my way of fixing things but we shall see.
Then she fixed the thumping issue, well not all there is still one that bugs me but we can work on that when she comes back for the tuning.
The main thing is that some noises I mentioned she kept saying that is normal and that my ears hear too much...
But I am not so sure specially about the noise you are going to hear on the first note I play on the small sound clip I am adding here.
Sadly one of my pieces happens to hit that key in a very solo and dramatic way so it just hits me in the face.
Am I being too picky?
http://yourlisten.com/channel/content/16972294/key_problem
Not sure how to describe it buts I guess it sort of like a baby rattle sound with the note..
Thanks!
_________________________
*Young Chang Y185 6'-1"

*Baldwin Hamilton Studio '67 (gone)

*Young Chang Y150 (Del F design) (gone)

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#2063733 - 04/12/13 09:49 PM Re: Can you identify what this noise is when I press a key? [Re: shaolin95]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Nope, not normal. But, I would guess not serious either. Was the piano prepped before it was delivered? Little things can show up after any move. Don't panic!

The removal of the metal bar from the fallboard is very odd. I would question that with the dealer.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2063741 - 04/12/13 09:57 PM Re: Can you identify what this noise is when I press a key? [Re: shaolin95]
shaolin95 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/12/11
Posts: 476
I will do do that. I feel that if I can hear it on a recording then I should not have to put up with it since for me is a big purchase for which I must feel 100% happy. And this is not my '77 Hamilton upright which you can understand having noises due to its age. smile
Yes it was prepped before delivery. I recall seen it all taken apart the day before I went to test it for the second time.
I kind of did not like the its your ears attitude that she had today so I hope we can get that fixed and I am thinking that after my free tuning, I will try another tuner next.
Again, perhaps I am being picky but at least the other one did not have noises that will show up on a recording like that. smile


Edited by shaolin95 (04/12/13 09:58 PM)
_________________________
*Young Chang Y185 6'-1"

*Baldwin Hamilton Studio '67 (gone)

*Young Chang Y150 (Del F design) (gone)

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#2063928 - 04/13/13 10:04 AM Re: Can you identify what this noise is when I press a key? [Re: shaolin95]
David Jenson Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 2137
Loc: Maine
Hmmmm. All I can hear is the very slight suggestion that the key frame bedding needs to be checked, but recordings are a poor substitute for hearing the instrument in person. Anything in the action train can cause noise.
_________________________
David L. Jenson
Tuning - Repairs - Refurbishing
Jenson's Piano Service
-----

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#2063956 - 04/13/13 10:49 AM Re: Can you identify what this noise is when I press a key? [Re: shaolin95]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7876
Loc: France
It is always the key bedding that creates those hard impacted tones.

Then, the metallic whine is possibly coming from the strings themselves, an aluminium part not secured somewhere, a spring.


AT last the tuner seem tunes normal unisons, (I assume the piano is not really tuned there ) here, I guess, that will be better once tuned probably.

Those could be L modes ? or impreganted hammers . seems as a parasitic tone to me anyway

The tone is hard and it can be voiced a bit but you are playing hardly there.

May be the wifi ?





Edited by Olek (04/13/13 10:55 AM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2063957 - 04/13/13 10:51 AM Re: Can you identify what this noise is when I press a key? [Re: shaolin95]
shaolin95 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/12/11
Posts: 476
Thanks for listening, David.
Another thing I did not like is I even printed a key map with the issues I found to make it easier and only one of the "thumping" keys was addressed and she didnt even go through all the keys after making adjustments like I have seen other techs do and which makes sense to me to do.
She was in a hurry to go or I guess being hired by the company does not pay a lot. Either way, I am going to the dealer today as its my money and I shouldnt have to live with this nor with a fallboard without the "undeeded" metal bar. smile
_________________________
*Young Chang Y185 6'-1"

*Baldwin Hamilton Studio '67 (gone)

*Young Chang Y150 (Del F design) (gone)

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#2063963 - 04/13/13 11:01 AM Re: Can you identify what this noise is when I press a key? [Re: shaolin95]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7876
Loc: France
Before any intervention the keyframe bedding is to be tested, (precisely and by tone) and the keybed looked at for any foreign object.

It could be a small piece of wire somewhere on the soundboard, but I am unsure. Have a precise look on all the left side and back along the bridge.

The thump is something (due to excessive weight of the action on a glide bolt (or the opposite sometime) but the metallic whine could be lessened , by tuning, may be changing a little the strike can help, voicing (but the piano need to be played more before going on IMO)

just massaging the bends of the strings will lower those metalic composites. Now if there is some agrafe or plate buzz, it is less easy.


Edited by Olek (04/13/13 11:02 AM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2063970 - 04/13/13 11:09 AM Re: Can you identify what this noise is when I press a key? [Re: shaolin95]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Hi Gang,

Let me add some additional, and important, information.

The piano is a brand new, just delivered, Young Chang Y185 (6'1" grand).
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2063976 - 04/13/13 11:24 AM Re: Can you identify what this noise is when I press a key? [Re: shaolin95]
shaolin95 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/12/11
Posts: 476
Thanks Olek!
And also thanks, Marty for clarifying that. I should have made that point too. smile
So yes, it is new and based on how clean the iron cast frame (the other one had a light dust coat on it),I would say this one was on the floor substantially less time than the first one too.

So maybe I do need to give it a month at home with constant playing (1.5hrs to 2.5 hours a day) before trying to address those?
Thanks guys..this forum is amazing for sure. smile


Edited by shaolin95 (04/13/13 11:27 AM)
_________________________
*Young Chang Y185 6'-1"

*Baldwin Hamilton Studio '67 (gone)

*Young Chang Y150 (Del F design) (gone)

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#2063984 - 04/13/13 11:38 AM Re: Can you identify what this noise is when I press a key? [Re: shaolin95]
Gerry Johnston Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/12/13
Posts: 102
Loc: Haverhill, MA
It is difficult to analyze problems from a recording. Two things, however, seem clear to me. The unisons are not perfectly in tune. This can be very bothersome to someone with good ears. There is also a "woody" sound as the hammer strikes the strings. Young Changs (Asian pianos in general) have very hard hammers and a rather bright sound. A side effect of hard hammers is this mechanical sound of the hammer hitting the strings - especially noticeable in the treble. You might want to talk to a competent technician about voicing. Keyframe noise has been mentioned elsewhere, and may be possible, but i would lean toward voicing.
Ask the dealer about the technician's credentials. I am suspicious of removing something (unnessecary?) from a new piano.
With regard to "your ears hear too much". I have had clients with very sensitive hearing - especially with regard to high frequencies. It can be difficult to strike a balance between "normal mechanical noise" and sensitive hearing. All the more reason to find a competent technician. I am NOT saying the the dealer's tech is not competent - but you should not assume that she is. Many dealers simply hire the cheapest tech. they can find. Research the tech. and , if needed, get a second opinion.
_________________________
Gerry Johnston, Registered Piano Technician
Haverhill, MA
(978) 372-2250
www.gjpianotuner.com

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#2064025 - 04/13/13 01:10 PM Re: Can you identify what this noise is when I press a key? [Re: shaolin95]
Gerry Johnston Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/12/13
Posts: 102
Loc: Haverhill, MA
Just an afterthought. By all means, give the dealer and dealer tech. a reasonable amount of time to resolve the issues (maybe 4-8 weeks). If, however, the dealer is unable (or unwilling) to get this resolved for you contact Young Chang directly. It has always been my experience that piano companies are very anxious to be sure customers are happy - it is good for their bottom line.
_________________________
Gerry Johnston, Registered Piano Technician
Haverhill, MA
(978) 372-2250
www.gjpianotuner.com

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#2064040 - 04/13/13 01:51 PM Re: Can you identify what this noise is when I press a key? [Re: shaolin95]
shaolin95 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/12/11
Posts: 476
I had another tech come by, luckily he was close so it was at no charge.
He heard the sound and while he does not find it a problem that bothers him he does understand that some people have more sensitive ears, and sadly I am one smirk
In any case, he referred me to the person he considers the best in Utah to deal with this type of problems and in fact he is planning to come by when that other techs comes in as well.
It is going to cost me to get this fixed but if I am going to spend hours on the piano I better be happy with what I hear.
I am going by the dealer to see what we can workout.

I will get the one free tuning then hire this new tech that came by today instead for my next ones as he showed a lot of care and professional attitude during the whole interaction. smile
_________________________
*Young Chang Y185 6'-1"

*Baldwin Hamilton Studio '67 (gone)

*Young Chang Y150 (Del F design) (gone)

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#2064083 - 04/13/13 03:24 PM Re: Can you identify what this noise is when I press a key? [Re: shaolin95]
Gerry Johnston Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/12/13
Posts: 102
Loc: Haverhill, MA
I would just caution that you should make sure than anything a technician does does not void your warranty. Tuning, voicing and minor action adjustments should not be a problem. Someone in this forum had replied something about changing the hammer strike point - that kind of alteration from factory spec. could create warranty issue.
_________________________
Gerry Johnston, Registered Piano Technician
Haverhill, MA
(978) 372-2250
www.gjpianotuner.com

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#2064095 - 04/13/13 03:42 PM Re: Can you identify what this noise is when I press a key? [Re: shaolin95]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4215
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada

I listened to the sample.String seating, leveling, hammer mating along with voicing. The action can be moved slightly to see of the strike line changes the tone at all. Some of the tuning has drifted slightly, which is normal with a new instrument.

I would play it for a few weeks before you call someone in. With new instruments there are always a few bugs to work out. Remember there are up to twelve thousand moving parts inside the mechanism.
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#2064114 - 04/13/13 04:24 PM Re: Can you identify what this noise is when I press a key? [Re: shaolin95]
shaolin95 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/12/11
Posts: 476
Thanks all of you for the recommendations.
I agree with waiting so I will try to ignore it for now, but I already reported it just in case, then I will check in a month when my free tuning is up and go from there. smile
_________________________
*Young Chang Y185 6'-1"

*Baldwin Hamilton Studio '67 (gone)

*Young Chang Y150 (Del F design) (gone)

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#2064120 - 04/13/13 04:30 PM Re: Can you identify what this noise is when I press a key? [Re: shaolin95]
PianoStudent88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3181
Loc: Maine
Originally Posted By: shaolin95
I will get the one free tuning then hire this new tech that came by today instead for my next ones as he showed a lot of care and professional attitude during the whole interaction. smile

I would not take even a free tuning from someone who did not show the level of care and professionalism I desired. Don't be penny wise and pound foolish.

Or see if the piano dealer will pay your desired tuner to provide the free tuning, rather than sending their usual tuner.
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

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#2064136 - 04/13/13 05:09 PM Re: Can you identify what this noise is when I press a key? [Re: shaolin95]
shaolin95 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/12/11
Posts: 476
When she did the tuning of the Y150 she was fine, guess that is the only thing she is good at or care for. smirk

I actually went to another dealer to see other options just in case things turned out wrong for me.
Tested a Knabe WG-61 and a used yamaha. The Yamaha action was nice but I could hear some issues on some keys there, which he explained it has not been regulated/tuned etc yet.
The Knabe was fine, but I still like the Young Chang 185 more IMHO, so I am going to find a way to make it work for me. smile


Edited by shaolin95 (04/13/13 05:15 PM)
_________________________
*Young Chang Y185 6'-1"

*Baldwin Hamilton Studio '67 (gone)

*Young Chang Y150 (Del F design) (gone)

Top
#2064169 - 04/13/13 06:57 PM Re: Can you identify what this noise is when I press a key? [Re: Gerry Johnston]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7876
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Gerry Johnston
omeone in this forum had replied something about changing the hammer strike point - that kind of alteration from factory spec. could create warranty issue.


I promise that not, but not ungluing hammers of course...
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2064170 - 04/13/13 07:00 PM Re: Can you identify what this noise is when I press a key? [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7876
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Silverwood Pianos

I listened to the sample.String seating, leveling, hammer mating along with voicing. The action can be moved slightly to see of the strike line changes the tone at all. Some of the tuning has drifted slightly, which is normal with a new instrument.

I would play it for a few weeks before you call someone in. With new instruments there are always a few bugs to work out. Remember there are up to twelve thousand moving parts inside the mechanism.

I agree with you, but more string seating bend works etc, than hammer mating which does not strike me so much.

Voicing (whatever it is) van round the attack, but yes the piano is "green" there and those are common problems with too much power, too much partials not yet educated, ect.

The tuning was probably not bad to begin with with some audible tone building, slightly drifted indeed.

sound like if the piano is saturating, strings need to settle.
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2064493 - 04/14/13 01:00 PM Re: Can you identify what this noise is when I press a key? [Re: shaolin95]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1765
Loc: London, England
Ideally, a 'just delivered' piano should not be as out of tune as that but it can happen. Sometimes an unfortunate tuner has to do a hurried pitch raise just before a piano goes out. An organised tuning department would not let this happen but even then, circumstances are not ideal.

Given the situation, when it does happen that a piano gets delivered in an unplayable state of tuning, or immediately becomes unplayable, a self respecting dealership would send out their most experienced tuner/ technician as soon as possible to do what has to be done to correct the situation.

Stores will often send the tuner who did the pre delivery tuning that they might learn from their mistakes. It looks like that might have already happened. Now it is time to tune it properly and attend any problems.
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



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