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#2063896 - 04/13/13 08:10 AM spring tension, let-off and repetition
johnlewisgrant Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 518
Loc: canada
Revisiting the topic, but with special attention to fast trills:

Q: In general terms, once spring tension is properly set, is there an optimal setting for back-check combined with let-off to produce the fastest, most even trills possible? For example, if let-off and drop are set very, very close (say 1/64") and back-check is at say 10mm, would repetition/trills be compromised? Would a less aggressive setting for either or both of the above be likely (in theory at least) to improve repetition?

Subsidiary question: is there a tool that measures spring tension super-accurately?

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#2063924 - 04/13/13 09:51 AM Re: spring tension, let-off and repetition [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7901
Loc: France
Hello, it is not about trills but fast repetead notes, trills always work fine with any standard regulation.

High checking lower the power and raise repetition speed limit.

The spring havesome importance but the jack winking and rest position have much more, in my opinion.

Also, overblow reduce the friction of the jack to come back under the knuckle.

Basically the spring must be strong enough to maintain the whippen in open position when the hammer leave the backcheck. but at that moment, unless the key have tons of lead, the key is not pushing on the whippen , it sort of float for a moment that must be enough for the jack to rengage .
As say Ed Foote lower the spring helps to break the key inertia but the jack rengage soon

the spring strenght depends of the spread, and the level of drop.

Jack back can be using strong spring but small drop.


if both are used the touch is sort of sluggish
Jack in standard position need a less strong spring.

Of course different jack elevations offer different possibilities.

enlarging the vertical dimension allow to have the jack centered, small spring stress, I believe that then you align the sharps at rest to be on the mid blow line and you have a very fast action with easy sharps, and whites passing the convergence line a little before half blow (control being better at that point).

As seen on some grand piano I know




Edited by Olek (04/13/13 10:29 AM)
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#2063929 - 04/13/13 10:11 AM Re: spring tension, let-off and repetition [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Ed Foote Online   blank
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 1184
Loc: Tennessee
Greetings,
Repetition speed is determined by two things; how fast the key will rise, and how far it has to go to allow the jack to reset.

The first is controlled by the repetition spring, it is what powers the key upwards upon release, using the hammer weight as countering resistance. (under fast repetition, the hammer doesn't rise toward the string between cycles, the whippen is, instead, driven down by the rep spring working against the drop screw).

The second is checking height. This is where variability comes into play. If the hammers check lower on harder blows, forte trills will require more work than pianissimo ones will, because the hammer will be checked lower and the key will have to rise farther to allow the jack to reset. Evenness of checking shows itself in evenness of action response. Increasing after touch will also slow it down, as that represents dead space the key must travel through before allowing the jack to reset.

Checking too high will reduce the power of repeated notes, since with a blow of, say, 7/8", a hammer is not going to carry the same speed into the string as it will from 1 7/8"

There is no practical difference in repetition speed between an action with springs that throw hammers off the jacks upon release from check, and springs that give a smooth rise that is just below the threshold of being felt in the key. The harder springs may cause slightly higher checking on light play, but their resistance makes the pianissimo touch a lot more difficult to control and an action that is more work to play than needed.
Regards,

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#2063967 - 04/13/13 11:06 AM Re: spring tension, let-off and repetition [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7901
Loc: France
Agreed with that..



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It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2064023 - 04/13/13 01:05 PM Re: spring tension, let-off and repetition [Re: Olek]
johnlewisgrant Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 518
Loc: canada
Very helpful.

Follow up:

Am I being a little precious in asking about precise measurement of spring tension, ie getting it uniform across the instrument? ie is there a device that will do that.

Also, just for clarification, "higher checking" means checking that is closer to the string, I assume, which tends to produce faster but less powerful repetition?

Or have I overgeneralized?

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#2064043 - 04/13/13 01:55 PM Re: spring tension, let-off and repetition [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Ed Foote Online   blank
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 1184
Loc: Tennessee
Originally Posted By: johnlewisgrant

Am I being a little precious in asking about precise measurement of spring tension, ie getting it uniform across the instrument? ie is there a device that will do that.

Also, just for clarification, "higher checking" means checking that is closer to the string, I assume, which tends to produce faster but less powerful repetition?



Yes, and Yes. The precision of spring tension is only important to a certain degree. If it meets the criteria, it may actually vary in strength to do that, since we test with the mechanism, itself. The normal test for spring tension is observation of the hammer's return rate. Shank pinning is a factor, so springs might vary to adjust for that. A tighter pinning of the balancier will require a stronger spring to lift the hammer the same speed as a looser pinning with a weaker spring. (I like 7 grams on the balancier). The two approaches give different levels of performance, with the former being mine.

If all the springs were identical, the hammer lift rates would be all over the map, and that would make it difficult to set the drop, i.e.. everybody would have to be far from the string to accomodate the few that are jumping.
Regards.

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#2064375 - 04/14/13 08:17 AM Re: spring tension, let-off and repetition [Re: johnlewisgrant]
David Jenson Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 2144
Loc: Maine
Originally Posted By: johnlewisgrant
Very helpful.

Follow up:

Am I being a little precious in asking about precise measurement of spring tension, ie getting it uniform across the instrument? ie is there a device that will do that.

Also, just for clarification, "higher checking" means checking that is closer to the string, I assume, which tends to produce faster but less powerful repetition?

Or have I overgeneralized?
"Yes and Yes" Ed Foote. 'Agree. Standard regulating measurements are specified by the manufacturer for a good reason. That range is where everything works well. It sounds like you are not a technician and are basically trying to "prep" your piano. 'Good luck.
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#2064390 - 04/14/13 09:24 AM Re: spring tension, let-off and repetition [Re: David Jenson]
johnlewisgrant Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 518
Loc: canada
Originally Posted By: David Jenson
Originally Posted By: johnlewisgrant
Very helpful.

Follow up:

Am I being a little precious in asking about precise measurement of spring tension, ie getting it uniform across the instrument? ie is there a device that will do that.

Also, just for clarification, "higher checking" means checking that is closer to the string, I assume, which tends to produce faster but less powerful repetition?

Or have I overgeneralized?
"Yes and Yes" Ed Foote. 'Agree. Standard regulating measurements are specified by the manufacturer for a good reason. That range is where everything works well. It sounds like you are not a technician and are basically trying to "prep" your piano. 'Good luck.


I am a total amateur, as I've said here before. It's a hobby for me, and I LOVE it. I have taken a few courses; but there is less than unanimity on many things! Drop and let-off, for example, I adjusted much closer than spec(Reblitz and Hailun suggest the standard 1/8" and 1/16"), and the result was a vastly improved feel and touch. Backcheck, says Reblitz, should be "exactly" 5/8", and Hailun's spec is the same; but my 218 arrived with a much smaller backcheck distance; so again specs and reality are never the same. Naturally I'm curious about these issues, and where the "truth" so to speak lies.

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#2064393 - 04/14/13 09:30 AM Re: spring tension, let-off and repetition [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7901
Loc: France
specs may vary if the touch is bettter for the pianist (more key dip, more or less hammer stroke, differnt types of letoff)

But those modification may be done with a good understanding of all consequences.

Manufactures provide good bases, the key heigh level being the most useful.

Some action allow for very little modifs, others are tolerant.

those things cannot be done by an amator, but if cooperation exists with a good tech, some actions are possible from the pianist part.
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#2064474 - 04/14/13 12:34 PM Re: spring tension, let-off and repetition [Re: Olek]
johnlewisgrant Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 518
Loc: canada
Originally Posted By: Olek
specs may vary if the touch is bettter for the pianist (more key dip, more or less hammer stroke, differnt types of letoff)

But those modification may be done with a good understanding of all consequences.

Manufactures provide good bases, the key heigh level being the most useful.

Some action allow for very little modifs, others are tolerant.

those things cannot be done by an amator, but if cooperation exists with a good tech, some actions are possible from the pianist part.


In general, of course, I agree. But I am not your typical piano owner. I'm just one of those folks who has difficulty surrendering technical work of any kind to the skilled craftsman: plumbing; carpentry; framing; drywalling; pouring foundations, laying flagstones; roofing; electrical work, etc. I do it all. I will make mistakes, for sure. But so far, so good. Excellent, in fact.

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#2064505 - 04/14/13 01:18 PM Re: spring tension, let-off and repetition [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7901
Loc: France
The pleasure to have the thing done by yourself generally tweak tge perception of the final result. That is what I notice even on dedicated amateurs wanting to do all by themselves.

There is a training and experience that count for 40 % of the quality in tge end.

Piano actions are very forgiving, it is easy then to be happy.

So be happy (dont worry !)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2064681 - 04/14/13 09:02 PM Re: spring tension, let-off and repetition [Re: Olek]
johnlewisgrant Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 518
Loc: canada
I should add, probably, that it's important to note that although Toronto (Canada, home of Glenn Gould) is where I live and grew up, it has about 1/2 the GDP of that other beautiful hogtown called "Chicago."

Ergo: there are not that many really skilled piano technicians in our fair city. World renowned orchestras and performers don't drop in to Toronto that often. We are probably better known for our film festival than for our "art", in ALL the senses that ill-used word.

Cutting to the chase, there really aren't a whole lot of skilled techs here. Case in point: I've just returned from a life-altering concert by the Russian youngster, Daniel Trifonov, at a wonderful hall in Toronto, and who should be re-tuning the Hamburg Steinway at intermission? My tech-connection; and I can assure you that he is very young and has many years of learning the ins-and-outs of pianos ahead.

There are no super-techs in this Town.

This is a no-man's-land up here musically, you must understand. This is not Chicago, New York, L.A., Paris, Hamburg, Moscow, etc., etc....

It ain't easy to get the best....

And I am an inveterate do-it-your-selfer, anyway!

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#2065100 - 04/15/13 05:33 PM Re: spring tension, let-off and repetition [Re: johnlewisgrant]
electone2007 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 274
Loc: Philippines
Just curious. What was the original hammer blow distance on your Hailun?

Most common is 45 mm but my Hailun 178 came from the factory having 40 mm blow distance in the treble and tenor and 45 mm in the bass.

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#2065212 - 04/15/13 10:47 PM Re: spring tension, let-off and repetition [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3919
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
You make it sound like the dearth of decent piano technicians in Canada's largest city forces you as a piano player to do do your own tech work. Of course, that is absolutely laughable. Toronto is blessed with a good number of very fine piano technicians. The best technicians in any given place essentially pick and choose for whom they work....
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#2065395 - 04/16/13 08:18 AM Re: spring tension, let-off and repetition [Re: johnlewisgrant]
RestorerPhil Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/26/12
Posts: 212
Loc: Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: johnlewisgrant
...but with special attention to fast trills:


Often the exact objective of the original poster can be left in the dust by the time a few responses have gone by.

I hope that three key issues have come to the forefront for John within these responses. These points come from reviewing what others have already pointed out:

1. Repetition spring tension, adjusted with a properly pinned rep. lever center pin friction to give a smooth rise of the hammer will lend itself to a proper repetition.

2. Backcheck distance, if set to the spec for that piano, will give a good average repetition at various volume levels- regardless of whether a trill is involved. When you move checking up (closer) you will gain speed and lose power. The inverse is also true.

3. John was seeking a way to use a device to set rep. spring tension. It has been pointed out to him that this is not how it's done. Instead, this adjustment must be made in situ. By using the rise of the hammer to judge spring tension, the technician is able to incorporate the effects of not only the rep. lever pin friction and the spring tension itself, but also the hammer flange pinning friction variation and hammer weight variation. Granted, these should be theoretically correct and evenly gradated. In reality they may not be.

There is a reason for the anecdote below:

Two weeks ago I had offered to try to solve some issues on a college Steinway B which is around 18 months old. Personally, I had noticed shallow dip, probably due to some key settling. A young Russian associate professor had noticed "something...I can't put my finger on it..., uhm...." (Ever heard that comment?) Although the dip truly turned out to be insufficient, the problem which had made the action feel sluggish to the players was actually the fact that the key holes at the center rail were tight - tight enough to prevent good repetition, but not so tight as to cause a key to actually stick, or to even show visually. I only found it by removing the keys as I was spot-leveling, prior to working on the dip issue.

In the end, I had slightly increased the dip, slightly tightened up let-off, slightly increased hammer blow - all done to get more horsepower from the keys. But, the issue which probably met the players need the most was probably the tight key holes. That was a surprise, especially since the piano has been served by a Piano Life Saver System. Another surprise to me was how well the rep. springs had been adjusted and how even they still were - not needing attention.

When I tune it next time, I will re-examine my closer let-off, because of the possibility that this could lead to bubbling and blocking, and will make sure of the checking distance.

The reason for the story?
After doing this work for 36 years, my assumptions on the Steinway had only been partially correct. On the other hand, my experience is what allowed the piano to tell me the answers which would satisfy the customer’s needs. Although John is to be commended for his efforts, he won’t have the same perspective, as he tries to regulate his own piano. Perhaps, however, he will feel better about spending good money with a good tech, when required.
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#2065470 - 04/16/13 11:16 AM Re: spring tension, let-off and repetition [Re: RestorerPhil]
johnlewisgrant Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 518
Loc: canada
Apologies... I overstated my case on tech availability in Toronto. Of course, there ARE no doubt some great techs here; but you really have to be in-the-know to find them.

But that's an aside: I'm NOT interested in using a tech, NOT because I don't think I can find a good one, but because I really get a lot of pleasure out of learning and doing things myself!! I do intend to get a tech to look at my piano, again, not to get work done but to get fine points addressed re my particular instrument.

Practical question:

The tightness of the flange pin relative to spring strength seems to be disputed or at least "relative": Reblitz says that when the hammer's removed and dangled in the air, look for approx. "5" cycles back and forth, before the hammer comes to rest.


Should that "5" arguably be something more like "3", if a somewhat tighter pinning is optimal?

Alternatively, as long as the pinning is absolutely secure, ie with no non-vertical movement, why wouldn't a lighter spring and a looser pin be better?

Re question about hammer blow distance on the Hailun: my experience was like yours. The spec for the 218 is 1 3/4", but the trichords on my piano were set at about 1/4" less. That was not a concern for me, personally, because piano was more than loud enough at ff in that range. And the ppps were excellent. Compared to all the grands I've played over the last 50 years, the touch and the tone of the piano was ... well... superb.

Warning, I've played a number of Hailuns in Toronto, 178s and uprights. Some have been gaawd-aweful; so it is important--as always--to have a reputable tech check out the instrument, even if it is new or near-new. Are the problems simply poor tuning and regulation? Or is the piano a total lemon and unredeemable? I think with Chinese-made pianos this proviso may be particularly important!!!

By way of edit... you'll probably find that hammer blow distance varies from section to section and indeed from note to note. There are innumerable variables affecting tone, needless to say, but don't get me wrong blow distance is definitely one of them! So a careful regulation of ALL the variables, or as many s you can afford, will without doubt improve the touch and tone of the piano.... But unless you're prepared to keep the piano in a pretty constant humidity throughout the year, all the regulating in the world isn't going to amount to much.


Edited by johnlewisgrant (04/16/13 12:57 PM)

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#2065547 - 04/16/13 12:55 PM Re: spring tension, let-off and repetition [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Emmery Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 2447
Loc: Niagara Region, On. Canada
I've warmed up to the Hailuns as of late. They have improved greatly in the last few years with good direction and foresight from upper management along with very advanced manufacturing procedures. The hammers still need to be needled/voiced once they are worn in a bit and can also benefit from some precision carding and fitting to the strings.

They are one of the few companies out there that claim easy interchangeability on the actions from similar models, and this requires very sturdy actions, stable materials with tight tolerances on the manufacturing to pull off. One of the best bangs for the buck in a piano lately IMHO.
_________________________
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George Brown College /85
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#2065608 - 04/16/13 03:23 PM Re: spring tension, let-off and repetition [Re: johnlewisgrant]
electone2007 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 274
Loc: Philippines
John, thank you for answering my question on hammer blow distance.

Like you, I find so much pleasure and satisfaction in tweaking my piano to the best it could be. There are no techs in my area and so I'm thankful for the techs in this forum who give help when I need it.

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#2065619 - 04/16/13 03:56 PM Re: spring tension, let-off and repetition [Re: electone2007]
johnlewisgrant Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 518
Loc: canada
There's an abundance of generousity of spirit here among the techs, and an abundance of knowledge!!!

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#2066507 - 04/18/13 11:38 AM Re: spring tension, let-off and repetition [Re: johnlewisgrant]
CC2 and Chopin lover Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/06
Posts: 1981
Another component of regulation that you can experiment with in regard to the "balance" between speed and power lies in the jack's position under the knuckle. You can add power, and improve checking, by moving the jack back slightly so that it stays in contact longer with the knuckle. By moving it forward slightly, toward the player, you will decrease the power but increase the speed of repetition. Many times bobbling at pp levels is directly related to the jack not clearing the underside of the knuckle fully, and can be eliminated with a slight increase in dip, thereby allowing the jack to advance out from under the knuckle. Of course, one thing always affects another, and these adjustments often require compensation elsewhere. As far as working on your own piano, I see nothing wrong with that. There is little irrevocable harm you can do, and a lot of potential for learning. Probably the best approach would be to find one of those excellent techs in Toronto that Supply speaks of and see if one of them would be willing to take on an apprentice, (you). Then, if and when you do screw up on your own instrument, he/she can show you why and, more importantly, fix the problem while you learn from the experience.
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#2066567 - 04/18/13 01:59 PM Re: spring tension, let-off and repetition [Re: CC2 and Chopin lover]
johnlewisgrant Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 518
Loc: canada
Originally Posted By: CC2 and Chopin lover
Another component of regulation that you can experiment with in regard to the "balance" between speed and power lies in the jack's position under the knuckle. You can add power, and improve checking, by moving the jack back slightly so that it stays in contact longer with the knuckle. By moving it forward slightly, toward the player, you will decrease the power but increase the speed of repetition. Many times bobbling at pp levels is directly related to the jack not clearing the underside of the knuckle fully, and can be eliminated with a slight increase in dip, thereby allowing the jack to advance out from under the knuckle. Of course, one thing always affects another, and these adjustments often require compensation elsewhere. As far as working on your own piano, I see nothing wrong with that. There is little irrevocable harm you can do, and a lot of potential for learning. Probably the best approach would be to find one of those excellent techs in Toronto that Supply speaks of and see if one of them would be willing to take on an apprentice, (you). Then, if and when you do screw up on your own instrument, he/she can show you why and, more importantly, fix the problem while you learn from the experience.


The piano being only 6 months old at this point, I'm simply moving various variables out of the sort of "safety-zone" that all new pianos are regulated at and closer to what I personally like. Getting a tech to sit beside me while I say "a little more of this.... OK now let's try a little more of that" is obviously completely impractical and over-the-top expensive! So I make constant little adjustments all the time on my own, mostly from a3 to c6: "a little more drop on this note"; "a little less let-off on that note". I then play a number of pieces, and I play individual notes... usually at ppp.... I reset ALL the jacks closer to me (more on the edge) and have started playing with spring tension on certain notes, because I DO get a small amount of bobbling or "double=strike" if I try really really hard to reproduce it, even where the drop and let-off are more generous than elsewhere. But I'm talking very, very close drop and let-off: in the 1/64 to 1/32 range, or in the .5mm to 2mm range. I go mostly be feel, then I do a visual check.

Of course, the humidity in the piano room is at a pretty constant 42 per cent; otherwise I'd be wasting my time; at these tolerances I've found that at the odd time the humidity sits at 44-45, the piano feels and even sounds a little different. Not worse, not better, just different.

I do have a really good tech ready at hand, but haven't needed him at all. I will have him in when I've learned as much as I can and adjusted things optimal for ME (as opposed to for the tech!!) Eventually I want to get the take of someone who works on and plays different instruments every day. I don't have that perspective.

Everybody's fingers, technique, and subjective likes and dislikes are a little different. Doing this stuff yourself means you can tweak things EXACTLY the way you want to. Just couldn't afford to do tinkering all day long with a tech by my side either doing it himself or just saying "yah, good; no, bad!!"

Off now to get something to do ultra-fine torque measurements.

I haven't had this much fine since I was into cars in my early twenties. (That ended abruptly with the birth of our first kid.... little thing called MONEY.) Can't do that with new cars, these days. But pianos? No problem, and much cleaner and cheaper to boot.

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#2066685 - 04/18/13 06:09 PM Re: spring tension, let-off and repetition [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7901
Loc: France
Have fun as you do, but dont believe it will allow you to have a stable regulation someday.

this is obtained by multiple passes, each new one refining the precedent, so tweaking things as you do yopu may be compensating on one regulation for another which is not good, in the end the action will be strange, as all the oneS I have seen in those situations.

It is just impossible, sorry to say so.

Before tweaking anything a good tech begin to install a very robust regulation, then this one age when the piano plays, and is refined.

AT that time some voicing is done, that is then not correting differences due to uneven regulation.

It is at the same time very simple and not possible without experience. (not to an accepteable musical level)

Just the correct diagnostic is not as easy.

Then for sure the action does not like to be left in a less than good regulation, the ones that say that it is no danger are wrong. Not if you play seriously and regularely


Greetings


Edited by Olek (04/18/13 06:12 PM)
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It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2066744 - 04/18/13 08:27 PM Re: spring tension, let-off and repetition [Re: Olek]
johnlewisgrant Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 518
Loc: canada
"Have fun as you do, but dont believe it will allow you to have a stable regulation someday."

Not terribly interested in "stable" at this point. What I have, after--believe me--microscopic adjustments, is a piano that sounds and feels--TO ME--far better than it did when I purchased it. (Not that I didn't like the feel of the piano when I first played it. I just thought it could be improved.)

Sure, I could pay a tech to give me "stable", but I wouldn't necessarily get the sound and feel that I want. As I said above, that is a highly personal matter. I simply can't afford to pay a tech to do the kind of endless tinkering that would satisfy me. I'd have him in once a week... guaranteed.

"This is obtained by multiple passes, each new one refining the precedent,"

Which is exactly my experience... I discovered long ago that the moment one variable is altered, all the others must be readjusted. Which of course I do, because I'm a fanatic.

"... so tweaking things as you do yopu may be compensating on one regulation for another which is not good, in the end the action will be strange, as all the oneS I have seen in those situations."

But the action is not "strange," it is wonderfully responsive and the sound is beautiful.

"It is just impossible, sorry to say so."

Hasn't been my experience so far. I expect to live a bit longer yet; so I'll update in a few years!

By the way, you did read the above where I said that I would, of course, have my tech contact (who helps to maintain the new Hamburg Steinway at Koerner Hall in Toronto--probably the newest and best piano concert hall in the country) look at my piano and offer advice, corrections, modifications, etc.????

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#2066917 - 04/19/13 05:32 AM Re: spring tension, let-off and repetition [Re: johnlewisgrant]
CC2 and Chopin lover Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/06
Posts: 1981
Quote:
The piano being only 6 months old at this point, I'm simply moving various variables out of the sort of "safety-zone" that all new pianos are regulated at and closer to what I personally like. Getting a tech to sit beside me while I say "a little more of this.... OK now let's try a little more of that" is obviously completely impractical and over-the-top expensive!


I want to be clear I was not advocating that you pay a tech to sit next to you while you make adjustments. I said that the ideal situation might be apprenticing with a tech. In other words, you work free, help the tech out and learn what he/she has to teach you. Lot's of folks in this profession start out this way. It may be totally impractical for you, schedule wise, I don't know, but it was just a suggestion.
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#2066951 - 04/19/13 07:44 AM Re: spring tension, let-off and repetition [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7901
Loc: France
Well if a comptent trained tech see the piano, he may point you to some things you where not aware of, or no....

All depend of tge type of tech and what relation you have.

Anyway on a Kawai there is iven a chance that a Steinway tech does know how to regulate it wink

For the rest, I have been working behind enough tech with pianists that could not have their piano ideally working (ideally for them) , and the devil is in details but not only.

Aniway the questions you ask show that you have yet a good reflexion time before having an accepteable picture of a basic grand action.

Then only you can begin to understand/discover the specificity of the one you have.

I am not at all opposed that pianists buy a few hundred of tools, but the specialised touch and listening is very long to learn, as for playing you need to practice.

One may also be aware of the limitations of his action.

Good luck
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