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#2065244 - 04/15/13 11:39 PM Is my dealer wrong to insist Voicing is not a good idea ?
shaolin95 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/12/11
Posts: 476
The more I read around here, people seem to think highly of voicing yet the sales person where I bought my Young Chang Y185, any time I mention Voicing he tells me that he does not recommend that, that the piano should just age on its own.
The way he puts it voicing is just something like accelerating the "break in" process.
From what I have read, that is not what voicing is about.
In fact, since I am in Utah, I already schedule a visit from a tech called Russell Sorensen which seems to be considered one of the bests specially for voicing. Considering the high end pianos he works with, I assume he must be good.
He was recommended to me by a technician that came home to listen to an annoying sound I have on a key (from my other thread).
In any case, what do you guys think? From what I have read, Young Chang can be brighter pianos compared to the Weber they sell as well, and while I do not feel bothered by it, in recordings it does come out sounding a bit too bell like.
So my appointment is in about a 5 weeks (one week after my free tuning) so I was just looking for some feedback from you guys.

Regards


Edited by shaolin95 (04/15/13 11:45 PM)
_________________________
*Young Chang Y185 6'-1"

*Baldwin Hamilton Studio '67 (gone)

*Young Chang Y150 (Del F design) (gone)

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#2065259 - 04/16/13 12:03 AM Re: Is my dealer wrong to insist Voicing is not a good idea ? [Re: shaolin95]
David Jenson Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 2077
Loc: Maine
A competent technician who doesn't try to make a set of hammers into something that they will never be is fine. On the other hand, if your tech breaks out a 1/2" drill and fits a turkey skewer into it, your dealer might have a point.

Evening out the sound is fine. Don't worry.
_________________________
David L. Jenson
Tuning - Repairs - Refurbishing
Jenson's Piano Service
-----

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#2065261 - 04/16/13 12:07 AM Re: Is my dealer wrong to insist Voicing is not a good idea ? [Re: shaolin95]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3321
He may have a valid point if you wish to radically alter the overall tone of your piano. In such a case, new hammers that more closely match your tonal preference may be a better option. Otherwise, voicing is an essential part of piano maintenance. The hammers do not "break in" evenly from note to note, so voicing is essential to make sure everything sounds even.
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

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#2065267 - 04/16/13 12:18 AM Re: Is my dealer wrong to insist Voicing is not a good idea ? [Re: shaolin95]
shaolin95 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/12/11
Posts: 476
You know that is a good point which I was thinking. Is not like I am going to be play every key as often.
Also, I am not sure how much "voicing" is going to be done really. He was on the phone with the other tech and taming down the higher registers as he assumes the Young Chang is very bright from stock but we shall see when he is actually in front of the piano.
I dont dislike the sound really..yeah there are notes that I wish sounded different but this could be in part due to lack of better tuning.
I will make sure he understand the situation. There was one guy was highly recommended in utah on an old thread I found here but I could not find him so I am hoping this one is as good..from the feedback from the other tech, he is THAT good. smile
I surely dont want any drastic changes just for him to make it sound as good as possible within the realistic possibilities of this piano..I do not expect to end up with a Concert worthy piano laugh
_________________________
*Young Chang Y185 6'-1"

*Baldwin Hamilton Studio '67 (gone)

*Young Chang Y150 (Del F design) (gone)

Top
#2065269 - 04/16/13 12:26 AM Re: Is my dealer wrong to insist Voicing is not a good idea ? [Re: shaolin95]
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21426
Loc: Oakland
Intelligent voicing can make both the hammers and the strings last longer.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#2065322 - 04/16/13 02:20 AM Re: Is my dealer wrong to insist Voicing is not a good idea ? [Re: shaolin95]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7452
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: shaolin95
The more I read around here, people seem to think highly of voicing yet the sales person where I bought my Young Chang Y185, any time I mention Voicing he tells me that he does not recommend that, that the piano should just age on its own.
The way he puts it voicing is just something like accelerating the "break in" process.
From what I have read, that is not what voicing is about.
In fact, since I am in Utah, I already schedule a visit from a tech called Russell Sorensen which seems to be considered one of the bests specially for voicing. Considering the high end pianos he works with, I assume he must be good.
He was recommended to me by a technician that came home to listen to an annoying sound I have on a key (from my other thread).
In any case, what do you guys think? From what I have read, Young Chang can be brighter pianos compared to the Weber they sell as well, and while I do not feel bothered by it, in recordings it does come out sounding a bit too bell like.
So my appointment is in about a 5 weeks (one week after my free tuning) so I was just looking for some feedback from you guys.

Regards


Pianos are roughly voiced at the factory, if you cannot play a complete dynamic palette from ppp to Fff the hammers lack resiliency are too hard. It is better to begin with a little too round tone as the breaking in goes toward densification, never seen hammers that get softer while playing.

Now there is the character of the piano, and the type of tone given hamners can provide.
pianos as YC need some power, so voicing is not easy
And the idea that may be the dealer have no one to make such job or he must pay a subcontractor to do so. YC are not the easiest .

I agree also that the piano need to be played a little, but not that voicing habe been done yet. The tone is saturating unless you play forcefully. If you play with that tone always or if you cannot have another yes voicing is necessary.

It is better in my opinion , to have it done to the max even if you loose a little power first. Anyway what showa that it is good is that you can play a nice lively pppp, and that the sound distord only when you play too strong.

5 weeks is a good delay...

Hope it helps



Edited by Olek (04/16/13 02:21 AM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2065324 - 04/16/13 02:24 AM Re: Is my dealer wrong to insist Voicing is not a good idea ? [Re: shaolin95]
Brick Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/31/06
Posts: 373
I come across new Young Changs all the time. To my taste, a lot of them do need a little voicing down. But I find that shallow work at the crown gets me the aural result I want and a big improvement. It only takes about 20 minutes. Every tuner/voicer brings their own set of skills and judgement though.

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#2065403 - 04/16/13 08:45 AM Re: Is my dealer wrong to insist Voicing is not a good idea ? [Re: Brick]
shaolin95 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/12/11
Posts: 476
Originally Posted By: Olek
Originally Posted By: shaolin95
The more I read around here, people seem to think highly of voicing yet the sales person where I bought my Young Chang Y185, any time I mention Voicing he tells me that he does not recommend that, that the piano should just age on its own.
The way he puts it voicing is just something like accelerating the "break in" process.
From what I have read, that is not what voicing is about.
In fact, since I am in Utah, I already schedule a visit from a tech called Russell Sorensen which seems to be considered one of the bests specially for voicing. Considering the high end pianos he works with, I assume he must be good.
He was recommended to me by a technician that came home to listen to an annoying sound I have on a key (from my other thread).
In any case, what do you guys think? From what I have read, Young Chang can be brighter pianos compared to the Weber they sell as well, and while I do not feel bothered by it, in recordings it does come out sounding a bit too bell like.
So my appointment is in about a 5 weeks (one week after my free tuning) so I was just looking for some feedback from you guys.

Regards


Pianos are roughly voiced at the factory, if you cannot play a complete dynamic palette from ppp to Fff the hammers lack resiliency are too hard. It is better to begin with a little too round tone as the breaking in goes toward densification, never seen hammers that get softer while playing.

Now there is the character of the piano, and the type of tone given hamners can provide.
pianos as YC need some power, so voicing is not easy
And the idea that may be the dealer have no one to make such job or he must pay a subcontractor to do so. YC are not the easiest .

I agree also that the piano need to be played a little, but not that voicing habe been done yet. The tone is saturating unless you play forcefully. If you play with that tone always or if you cannot have another yes voicing is necessary.

It is better in my opinion , to have it done to the max even if you loose a little power first. Anyway what showa that it is good is that you can play a nice lively pppp, and that the sound distord only when you play too strong.

5 weeks is a good delay...

Hope it helps


Thanks for the information!
Yes I will discuss all this with the tech for sure. smile
Originally Posted By: Brick
I come across new Young Changs all the time. To my taste, a lot of them do need a little voicing down. But I find that shallow work at the crown gets me the aural result I want and a big improvement. It only takes about 20 minutes. Every tuner/voicer brings their own set of skills and judgement though.

Well that is motivating for sure! I think that is mainly what they talked about that day. Not needing major changes but just tame it down a little.
Like I was listening to some recordings and most pianos sound darker or warmer on recordings. Of course, I am comparing to expensive pianos with expensive recording gear vs my YC with a Zoom H2N but still, I think is well known of the brither nature of YC so I think I am on the right track to make it better overall. Really the more I listen to recordings it makes me wonder how those pianos then sound in real life since I do not dislike mine in real life. Its a bit strange to explain.





Edited by shaolin95 (04/16/13 10:45 AM)
_________________________
*Young Chang Y185 6'-1"

*Baldwin Hamilton Studio '67 (gone)

*Young Chang Y150 (Del F design) (gone)

Top
#2065665 - 04/16/13 06:11 PM Re: Is my dealer wrong to insist Voicing is not a good idea ? [Re: shaolin95]
Gerry Johnston Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/12/13
Posts: 98
Loc: Haverhill, MA
Tuning alone can make a huge difference. Don't make any voicing decisions until after tuning. After that, if you are interested in pursuing voicing talk to the technician - not the salesman. It is perfectly reasonable to make minor adjustments to voicing even on a new piano. If you are looking for a drastic change you probably bought the wrong piano.
_________________________
Gerry Johnston, Registered Piano Technician
Haverhill, MA
(978) 372-2250
www.gjpianotuner.com

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#2065687 - 04/16/13 06:58 PM Re: Is my dealer wrong to insist Voicing is not a good idea ? [Re: shaolin95]
shaolin95 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/12/11
Posts: 476
Not really looking for drastic changes, in fact, the only thing that I want is to fix those noises I think shouldnt be there, mainly that key that I posted about a few days ago really but if a good tech can fine tune it to make it the best it can be, I wont be unhappy with that either. smile
_________________________
*Young Chang Y185 6'-1"

*Baldwin Hamilton Studio '67 (gone)

*Young Chang Y150 (Del F design) (gone)

Top
#2065833 - 04/17/13 02:57 AM Re: Is my dealer wrong to insist Voicing is not a good idea ? [Re: shaolin95]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7452
Loc: France
If those are not agrafe or parasitic noises, they should go away with tuning and voicing. (and precise keyboard mating check, as extra pressure on a glide bolt "amplify" all extra noises and hammer impact (the more the piano is capable of noise, the mor eit will be apparent).

I do not know which hammers are used today on YC grands, I recall Samick made a huge improvement when choosing Wurzen filz for they hammers, as it is more mellow it helped. The felt is sometime too much heated and harden during hammer pressing, when it is a very firm felt to begin with (as "Royal Georges felt" voicing can be tiring.


Also any piano need a minimum amount of power to tone correctly.

Power is given by the resiliency of the inner layers of felt. if too hard there is too much and the tone is saturating, this allow all sort of rings and parasitic tones to escape.

But yes first the piano must be tuned, as "combing" the spectra tend to lower noises.

I do not dismiss that a little and fast voicing near crown can be enough (particularly if the shoulders have been needled enough)




Edited by Olek (04/18/13 03:50 AM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


Top
#2065921 - 04/17/13 09:16 AM Re: Is my dealer wrong to insist Voicing is not a good idea ? [Re: shaolin95]
shaolin95 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/12/11
Posts: 476
I guess I am now just excited to see what this tech can do to it. Nothing extreme..and specially that noise I have on a key.
The main thing in my mind now is..who to hire for this.

The Russell Sorensen person came up on one thread here about Utah techs and is the one that the recent tech that went home recommended as the best for voicing, but on that same Utah thread here, there was one name that came up over and over as the best....Rick Baldassin.
So I am trying to make up my mind now...
_________________________
*Young Chang Y185 6'-1"

*Baldwin Hamilton Studio '67 (gone)

*Young Chang Y150 (Del F design) (gone)

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